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I just got the brand new Summer 2003 edition of the T.L.C. magazine.  At the end of the description of the Cali vacation they say "This is TLC's largest tour of the year and we usually have ten to fifteen new engagements by the end of the week."  I attended one TLC event, and remember them handing us a flyer suggesting that we not propose at the party on Friday, because there was going to be a whole new batch of 150 women to see on Saturday. I think a couple of people did end up getting engaged.  I definitely remember that one brought a ring from the U.S.  Any thoughts?

... in response to Meet 'em & marry 'em the same weeken..., posted by Miguel on May 31, 2003

What is so difficult about this situation is that many men wouldn't consider making such a radical move as looking for a wife in another country until they are desperate.  I waited for almost 4 years after my divorce trying to meet an American woman, lowering my standards lower and lower in the hopes of finding someone, anyone.  Meeting and marrying my first wife who was an American was pretty easy back 20 years ago.  She was beautiful and a good woman but after raising a family we had grown apart and didn't enjoy the same things.  I thought starting over wouldn't be that hard, but everything was different than when I was young.

By the time I had worked my way through increasingly terrible women and people continually trying to get me to go into counseling or self-help grougs to learn to accept my loneliness, rather than just being a friend to me, I was ready to die and didn't have the luxury of shopping around and fully educating myself about foreign women.

I fully expected to be murdered or kidnapped the moment I stepped off the plane on my first trip to Colombia and only made the trip thinking that because I didn't have anything left to lose.  Of course when I got to Colombia I found things to be completely different than I expected but that is another story.

The point is that desperation is often the only reason many men even take the first step of going to a foreign country, so it is very difficult to turn off that desperation when you get there.

I think, like Pete E, I was lucky and met a good woman on my 3rd trip (I was going every 2 weeks), and we got engaged within a month (I asked her after a week, but she took a month before she said yes) and married within 4 months.

I think there are no easy answers or solutions to the desperation issue.  I realize that many men are not desperate and their reasons and processes are very different, but for men like me, and I know there are lots of us, it is the driving reason we even went to another country in the first place.

... in response to Re: Meet 'em & marry 'em the same we..., posted by lswote on May 31, 2003

I had been single for many years beore going to Colombia.
I had married as a teenage and got divorced at 25.For a number of years I partied alot and had alot of
short term relatinships.When I was 37 I met a lady I was with for 5 years.She died unexpetely just before we were to be married.After a few months of grieving I was ready to start looking again.By now I was 43 but still wanted the extremely good looking woman like had just had.It wasn't as easy  as it was a few years before.I had a number of short term relationships but finaly got to the point where I wasn't looking to hard.It just seemed too difficult to find what I wanted.Difficult seemed to turn to impossible by time I hit my 50's.
I have had an interest in South American women for along time.I'm not sure where it started.I was thinking of just traveling to try and meet them when the wonders of the internet opened up a whole new world of possibilities.
By the time I went to Colombia I was very ready to get married.I didn't consider myself desperate,or even lonely.
I was quite used to living alone and was comfortable with it.But someting was missing,the relationship I wanted.
And when I went to Colombia and started meeting these lovely latinas,the type of woman I had had a thing for anyway,I was ready to act.Which I did.Fortunately I did find a good girl,becauseI married her very quickly.I guess I didn't really know what I was missing untill it was right in front of me.But when I did find it there was no holding me back.
Bruce I think you were a little more in touch with your lonelyness.Some of us had just gotten used to it.But I think its there,the desire for that relationship you really want and you become very awrare of it when the opportunity presents itself.
So ya,we wouldn't be taking the trouble to travel to places like Colombia if there was not the need or desire.And we have to restrain ourselves to keep our head when we are presented with the beautifull options that wait for us there.
Beats the hell out of what I was doing before and the options I had here.Life is temporary and for living.When you find what you want its natural to go for it.Much more natural than denying yourself.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Meet 'em & marry 'em the sam..., posted by Pete E on May 31, 2003

I lost your address, and I want to talk.
wwj5555@nospam.com

... in response to Re: Meet 'em & marry 'em the same we..., posted by lswote on May 31, 2003

everyone feels desperate once in a while, and i have done things out of desperation before. but, i've been trying to catch hold of myself, and not act out of desperation, but based on sincere genuine feelings for the other person (not based just on my needs) with common sense to keep me in check.

just imagine what would have happened if you would have met someone that was deceitful, and didn't learn about her until she arrived. behaving desperately could prevent a guy from seeing the true motives of the person. also, some desperate partners choose to stay in abusive relationships because they feel they wont find anyone else that is better.

one of the most dangerous things is for a desperate (but nice) guy to visit third world marriage agencies to look for a spouse, and not even speak the language; he's asking for all kinds of trouble. same thing for a desperate (but nice and attractive) woman from a third world country who is a female member at a marriage agency; she's asking for trouble too. however, they both can be lucky, or i should say blessed by God, to meet another kind soul and marry.

the reason why i disagree with people acting too quickly and being desperate is because i have seen and heard of two many horror stories that have happened to both men and women. many of the negative experiences could have been avoided if the people wouldn't have done things out of desperation.  

for example, case in point, i didn't feel too happy when i heard about a calena marrying an Australian guy only after knowing him for two weeks. the guy showed up, lined up 3 girls as possible wives, and simply picked the one that accepted to go out with him on the third date. nine months later, the girl is over there in australia; they're seperated; and the girl can't afford to come home yet. she can't afford the airfare; and the guy wont give her any money. she doesn't even want to return home because she's confused, thinking that someday it will pay off if she stays in Australia. on top of that, she the "flavor of the week" for the other guys over there...if you get the idea.
the girl was desperate, and now she's in a dangerous situation.

or how about this one. i've known 2 calenas who are both extremely physically beautiful, very friendly, and fun to be with. i had allot of chemistry with both of them, and it wouldn't have been a long time from now before i would have fallen for either one. one is 32; the other is 28.
they are not poor women. well, it took me this past entire year to find out that both of the hotties have boyfriends that they kept hidden from me. one girl finally told me the truth that she has a boyfriend, but they don't have a future together because 1.) the guy is a narco; and 2.) they're always fighting. as for the second lady, i had to find out from a third party that her boyfriend was deeply involved in drug trafficking; to the point the woman had to flee the country out of fear of being killed by a rival gang in cali.

now, if i was desperate and fell for all the "sweet nothings" and "gentle kisses" they would throw at me, and try to trick myself into thinking that things could possibly be better by saving them, and bringing them to the US; where do you think i would be?

nope, i did allot better than that. i tried to keep up my guard, and i looked for someone who would be good for me in terms of family, personality, values, ethics, as well as physical aspects.

also, don't think i'm being judgmental here about people. i'm not. every person, if they are sincere, deserves a second chance and a decent partner; but all i'm saying is to be on the lookout for the insincere ones. that's it.

iswote, we've bumped heads in the past, but i'm sincerely happy that you've found someone to marry and love you for who you are. you're a lucky guy, and she's a lucky lady.

aaron  

... in response to well..., posted by Aaron on May 31, 2003

Where did you meet the two women with the narco boyfriends?

Sounds exciting!

Some guys actually go to Colombia to meet latinas just because they prefer them and not because they are dying of loneliness or can't find a nice american women.

... in response to Bla.. Bla...Bla, posted by Calipro on May 31, 2003

go to colombia because they like latinas. i like latinas, and i don't think going to colombia to look for a partner automatically makes a guy desperate. i and some others on this board could tell YOU some stories and experiences that will make your head spin, but i don't take the time to do it because my time is more valuable than that. enjoy the TLC social.  
chao,
aaroncito

... in response to calipro, i have no reason to lie, and ye..., posted by Aaron on May 31, 2003

I didn't mean to imply that you where lying. I am truly interested in how you managed to hook up with a mule and a women that had a narco boyfriend.

I won't be attending the TLC social this year but I probably will be staying at the Intercontinental while it is going on. If you're in town stop on by. My time isn't so valuable that I can't listen to what you have to say unless it's a lot of that patty yourself on the back kind of stuff.

I think it was you that said you like to dance salsa at Juanchitos on Sundays, Me to. Look we already have something in common.

... in response to Re: calipro, i have no reason to lie, an..., posted by Calipro on May 31, 2003

Tell us about the women that you were involved with that had a narco boyfriend and the other one who's "boyfriend was so deeply involved in drug trafficking; to the point the woman had to flee the country out of fear of being killed by a rival gang in cali."

Enquiering minds want to know. Go ahead make our heads spin!!  LOL!!!!

Don't act like a fifteen year old with the "my time is to vaulabe" line.

... in response to Come on Aaroncito! Tell us.........., posted by Calipro on Jun 1, 2003

Wayne I don't think this is  unusual. The  time I saw you at LB, I was with two girls that both were divorced from Narcos. One of them was married to a guy who was busted in NYC with 150 Kilo's. The others ex is in jail in spain.I have met at least four girls at LB who were married to Narcos. Two are married and in the US. One is in France and the other is teaching in Cali. Fifteen years ago the girls were all dating and marrying them. They lived in the states, learned english, now they have nice cars and some have their own apartments. I always ask what the ex husband did for a living. The biggest give away is he owns apartments and rents them. I met one girl at LL whose husband was waiting for her in a new explorer down the block. He was trying to help. He owned a lot of buildings. My ex owned a property managemment company. Who do you think lives in those nice houses in  Engenio, Normandia,Arboleda and Ciudad Jardin. A lot of us have had personal experiences in Cali that are not for public consumption. It is considered bad manners to name names and can be unhealthy. jim c

... in response to Re: Come on Aaroncito! Tell us.........., posted by jim c on Jun 1, 2003

Kind of makes one wonder what percentage of the workforce in Cali is involved in the drug trade.  I know I can look out the balcony of my condo, point to that guy, that guy, and the other guy.  Easy to spot - nice recent/new but not extravagent vehicles, no apparent job - always "running errands" - When you ask a neighbor "what does that guy do?" - you'll just get a grin.  Based on my sample - I'd say 5 percent?  It's still a big part of the economy.

... in response to Re: Come on Aaroncito! Tell us.........., posted by jim c on Jun 1, 2003

I don't doubt the guy has a story to tell. So, why not tell it. This is just about as ananomous as you are going to get. His time is just to valuable.

Anyway I remember when I met you that you were talking about a friend who owned a restuarant and he was having a model show or something. How did it turn out? I wished I had gone but I was hanging out with Walter and he didn't want to go. So if hear about your friend having another show, let me know I would like to go.

... in response to Re: Re: Come on Aaroncito! Tell us........., posted by Calipro on Jun 2, 2003

The guy was Diego Reyes who owns El Cortile. It is an italian restaurant right by Crepes Y waffles in Cuidad Jardin. He used to have an agency and was associated with LL. He is a great guy and Most of the agency owners know him. He has done a lot of favors for americans in Cali including storing my furniture for six months after I broke up with my Novia. jim

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Come on Aaroncito! Tell us....., posted by jim c on Jun 2, 2003

Jim,
Diego is the guy I start with if I need to know about anything in Cali.The number one resource guy I know of for a gringo in Cali.
And he is a fun guy.I was going through his books of women one time and asked him how young is too young for a guy my age?His answer,12.Joking of course but there is some truth in it.Even early teen girls seem to be fair game for Colombians of all ages.

Pete

... in response to Diego, posted by Pete E on Jun 2, 2003

Just can't marry 'em until 14!  Learn something new everyday:

http://www.interpol.int/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/csaColombia.asp

"Edad de consentimiento para actividad sexual
La edad de consentimiento para actividad sexual se obtiene :

   * mujer : 12 años
   * hombre : 14 años

Edad de consentimiento para contraer matrimonio
La edad de consentimiento para casarce con consentimiento de los padres se obtiene :

   * mujer : 14 años
   * hombre : 16 años"

... in response to 12 is legal in Colombia!, posted by cancunhound on Jun 2, 2003

n/t

... in response to 12 is legal in Colombia!, posted by cancunhound on Jun 2, 2003

I immagine Colombians think and 18 year old age of consent is pretty nuts.
Where I live there was a 18 year old Mexican kid who's 17 year old girl friend had a child.They were living together and planning to marry.He was being prosecuted for statutory rape.Thats more rediculous than the age 12 thing in my opinion.My grandfather was 26 and my grandmother 15 when my dad was born.I guess it would have been jail time for him here and now,married or not.
One young lady I know has been the mistress of a mafioso type guy in Cali since she was 14.Whole different world.No 6-9 years between sexual maturity and legal age there.

Pete

... in response to Re: 12 is legal in Colombia!, posted by Pete E on Jun 2, 2003

About 3 years ago, I returned to Colombia after my divorce to start a new search.  I met this 16 year old girl at Chipichape.  I was 41 a the time, but I look younger than my true age.  She was very beautiful, and there was a huge attraction on her part.  She took me home to meet her mom, who was 38 at the time.  I felt really uncomfortable and ended the relationship.  She tried to reassure me and told me that almost all of her girlfriends had boyfriends in their 40's.  In the last 3 years I have met many other young girls who have confirmed this.  It's just the culture, and is very accepted there.  Although tempting at times, and maybe good for a fling, a teenager isn't what I'm looking for.

... in response to Re: Re: 12 is legal in Colombia!, posted by beenthere on Jun 2, 2003

Just food for thought - California sexual consent is age 18.  Now you go to Colombia and hook up with a 17 year old and do the nasty.  One can actually be prosecuted when back in California because that would have been illegal there.

... in response to Important Note, posted by cancunhound on Jun 2, 2003

A local guy is being prosecuted for traveling to have illegal sex.He was plannng to marry her and bring her here.He has  13-16 year old girl friend(the stories vary,she says she is 16).He also payed money to her family.I think thats what really p!ssed off the politically corect types who are going after her.It looked to them like he bought her,which is just what does happen in some of these countries.But it wasn't just prostitution,he was going to marry her.She was from an Oriental country,I forget which one.
Being a Realtor we have to do a "Megans Law"disclosure with each sale,teling people they can go to the police department and look at the list of "Sexual Preditors" that may live nearby.Thats a good idea except it should not include these guys involved in unaproved consential relationships,but it sure does.I remember a scene from "One Flew Over The Coo Coo's nest.Jack Nicholson is confined to a mental hospital for having sex  with a 16 year old girl.He is telling one administrator,"come on,she was 16 going on 25."
Do not confuse this with Pedofilia.WE are talking sxually mature girls,not children.Thats a whole different thing.

Pete

... in response to Meet 'em & marry 'em the same weeken..., posted by Miguel on May 31, 2003

I met a guy that was on the TLC tour in Cali last year in the Intercontinental Hotel. I offered to take him around to the various agencies to show him what was available. He wasn't interested. A couple of weeks later I saw him at Chipichapi holding a little baby and walking with a women. I thought WoW! that was quick. I was a little suprised because most of the guys usually leave right after the tour is over. Turns out he went back to the States and returned to spend time with this girl. She wasn't exactly a knock out but what the heck. He never went to the agencies and met 20 or 30 hotties and got all confused. He just hooked up with one that fit the bill and that was that.

Going to a TLC party is an experiance. Being part of the bait to attract 300 to 400 women to a party along with the door prizes is a trip. They will not let any of the women into the party until they are photograhed and video taped.

Even though I don't think you get a lot of value for your money it is something you will remember. At any of the TLC parties I went to there were only 2 women that I was really interested in seeing again. That works out to 4 women total or 250 dollars a piece.

The only thing that I really liked was that I was pretty much guaranteed a date that night with the best looking woman at the party. In under an hour I had the phone numbers of any ladies that I was interested in and warming up to the best of the best. At about two hours the ladies are starting to get a little bored because it isn't all that interesting for them to be in a room with 400 women and only 30-40 guys. The women are all dressed up with no place to go. Of the four TLC parties that I have attended I'm batting 100% on pulling the best looking women out of those parties.

Also if you were on one of TLC's tours recently, why are so many of the guys on the tour not interested in having someone show them what is available to them at the agencies?

I rarely see these guys at any of the hot night spots in town. They have no idea what they are missing. Whats up with that?

... in response to Re: Meet 'em & marry 'em the same we..., posted by Calipro on May 31, 2003

Calipro, I can't answer your question.  It's been a while since I've been on a tour, but in both instances there was some interest in the agencies on the part of the men, more so in Medellin where the local agency was working hand-in-hand with TLC to get women to show up at the parties.  I do remember a couple of men who weren't interested, and I'd chalk that up to lack of time or to paranoia.

I pretty much agree with what you said.  The parties are an experience. I thought I got my money's worth, and would go again.  But, as you point out, it's not as cost effective as as an agency for meeting a lot of women.  A friend of mine who went on the same two trips as me did like you the second time.  He carried around a notepad in an elegant looking leather portfolio and got a lot of phone numbers to follow up with.  Great idea, although for some reason a lot of the women thought he was married.  Also, if you speak Spanish and are reasonably presentable, it's not that difficult arranging a date with a stunner.  The problem, though, compared to an agency, at a TLC party you're filtering mostly based on a person's physical appearance.  It's nice knowing beforehand something about a person's occupation, education, interests, etc.

... in response to Re: Meet 'em & marry 'em the same we..., posted by Calipro on May 31, 2003

CaliPro,
I know that everyone (including me) is dying to know what your secret is to batting 100% in pulling in the best looking woman at TLC parties???  What advantage do you have over us "average gringos"?  Any advice would be appreciated.

... in response to Re: Re: Meet 'em & marry 'em the sam..., posted by beenthere on May 31, 2003

I think my secret is that after two or more hours at a TLC party most of the women are bored and I'm the first one to ask them out to go dancing.

Also, I take a pen and something to write on so I can get the phone numbers of other nice ladies. It seems to me that other guys at the parties don't relize that once they walk out the door TLC has no way of contacting them because they don't know who they are. I guess you could wait until their next edtion comes out but by that time the girl probably forgot who you are.

... in response to Meet 'em & marry 'em the same weeken..., posted by Miguel on May 31, 2003

I don't want to start a flame war, but IMHO, doing something like this is just nuts...

What kind of person can meet someone at a party, then by the end of the evening propose marriage??? They are asking a complete stranger to marry them!!! What does it say about someone who would do this, not to mention what it says about a woman who would accept... Can you say desperate???

I'm sure some of these relationships work, but I think the odds for failure are pretty high...

I think TLC is doing their customers a disservice by planting an idea like this in their flyers...

Lo siento, justo mis dos centavos...

... in response to Nuts, just nuts..., posted by wizard on May 31, 2003

Hey Gandolph

   Did you just figure this out? There is a perception that any one who doesn't marry immediately in the agency culture is a player. The agency propieters claim success each time a neurotic,lonely gringo marries an undereducated imature cinderella with no future. The girl is touted as a success by the agency which draws more young latinas. This then draws more desperate gringos for the new crop. It is a revolving door of personalities.
    The green card shark is an overworked myth (in my opinion). Is any latina who dates an american and breaks it off a shark? How about she found out the guy is an idiot who has no future. I once had a friend who married an italian girl. She divorced him after seven years. Our inside joke was that once she understood what he was saying, she figured out what an a**hole he was .
   
    I am sure that my statements will piss some of the members off but I have been in the agencies and talked to the men and the women, it is all a fantasy and to preach moderation is to rain on their parades. There are always excuses: The gringo doesn't have the time or money to court the woman long term. She might meet someone else. They will fall in love after the marriage. Three months of sleeping in the same bed will show whether they should marry(K1

  Suffice to say that men of intelligence over thirty should know that finding, marrying and supporting a woman is an expensive proposition, regardless of where you do it. Don't you think time should be invested as well. I have dated numereous women in Cali and found out they are not very different than AWS. They can be self centered dishonest and selfish as well. I am still looking after four years and do so because I like their looks and energy,

  I have  three friends that opened and ran agencies and I can tell you that most became disillusioned with the business just because of the behavior of the  desperate and unrealistic cheapskates of the "I want her now" crowd. Soooo the fault is on both sides.      jim c

... in response to Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by jim c on May 31, 2003

Jim

Granted, I moved too fast.  But 4 years.  Get serious.  What you're doing is no better than what the desperate crowd does.  You've found a way to guarantee that you will never fail: "Never pick one."  It's easy to get a date in Colombia.  Player's paradise.  Congratulations on being able to spend so much time there.

Steve

... in response to 4 years!, posted by DallasSteve2 on Jun 2, 2003

Well Steve
  I spent two of those years with one Calena and have been smart enough not to jump from the pan into the fire.
    Call me cynical I am sixty and haven't been able to convince myself that a twenty five year old will fall in love with me in two weeks. I am not that desperate to marry just anyone who will have me. I would rather be alone and playing, than be paranoid about my wifes affections or choose someone just for company and sex. I can have that here and she will have her own money.
    I learned a long time ago at Latin Love to blow off the desperate girls by first telling them that I would like to live in Colombia and second I would not marry a girl that I didn't know for at least a year. It really sweeps the decks clear. I don't remember who posted it recently  but Desperate people find desperate people in the agencies.
    Sorry, but I don't fit the profile. I have consistantly dated educated women over 30 they were all employed had cars and  some had their own homes. Women like these are difficult to find in the agencies. The agencies push the sardinas who have no experience and think they are marrying prince charming. I really believe that eighty percent of the girls in the agencies are under thirty, fifty percent are unemployed, possibly five percent are professionals.
    If one is interested in "buying furniture ", Remember you get what you pay for. So buy the best and enjoy it before the two year warranty runs out.. jim c

... in response to Re: 4 years!, posted by jim c on Jun 2, 2003

Jim,
Your agency stats sound about right.Still its a good place to start for a new guy.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: 4 years!, posted by Pete E on Jun 2, 2003

Well, the stats are 20% of the women over 30, 50% employed, and 5% professional. Then, the percentage of women at an agency that would match jim c's criteria would be

0.2 x 0.5 x 0.05 = .005 = 0.5%.

So, if there are 1000 women in an agency, there would be 5 that would meet those criteria.  Now, of those 5 women, say that 30% are physically attractive, 20% reasonably intelligent and sane, and you have some sense of chemistry or love with 10%. That would reduce percentage to

.005 x .3 x 0.2 x 0.1 = .00003 = .003%.

So if you you add these other criteria, it looks like jim c is going to have to sort through about 30,000 agency women to find "The One."  

Now admittedly this is a little flawed because some of these categories overlap.  For example, a woman who's over 30 and employed has a greater chance of being a professional than 5%, even if there's a 5% chance the average agency woman is a professional.  Still, goes to show that maybe 2 years or 4 years isn't all that long.

... in response to If those stats are right, jim c will be ..., posted by Miguel on Jun 2, 2003

well well miguel

  Great math! Its a good thing I am not in a hurry!   I guess I may never find THE ONE but it is pleasant searching.
  Then again buying furniture with a two year green card  warranty, based on a bubble butt is not for everyone. Insane people think the shrink is nuts because he can't hear those voices.
   I am sure you understand that desperation and loneliness drive the business. As I said in my previous post I don't fit the profile and I don't wish to be with someone who is with me  because of their financial problems. If I were I would find a beautiful 25 year old massage therapist with one kid and marry her. Then I would put her in my will leaving everything to her if we were still married when I died of Natural causes. So if one wants to marry a sardina, he should at least buy a good one and get his moneys worth. Nothing lasts forever.  jim c

... in response to Re: If those stats are right, jim c will..., posted by jim c on Jun 2, 2003

Steve and Pete are two very intelligent guys.  I've learned a lot from reading their posts.  But on this issue I think you're right.  For me at least, it's hard finding someone compatible and then hard knowing what she's really like without spending 3-6 months face time together.  If someone's going to go from love of your life to complete b***tch, better to find out before the marriage.

... in response to If those stats are right, jim c will be ..., posted by Miguel on Jun 2, 2003

Once the fictional jim c in my example has gone through 30,000 women and found "The One", what are the chances she'll be attracted to him as well?  If she's just as selective, then the chances they'll marry and live happily ever after are

1/30,000 x 1/30,000 = 1 woman out of 900 million.  

So he's going to be looking for a while.

... in response to Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by jim c on May 31, 2003

Even wizards have sporadic moments of lucidity...  

I figured out this behaviour on my first trip to Cali... The first gringo I met in Cali was agonizing over which of 3 girls he was going to ask to marry him... It was his first trip and he had just 1 date with each girl... He wound up proposing to a cute girl with whom he could not communicate, period, zero, zilch... He proposed using a translator and she accepted... How romantic... My first "head shaking" experience... The very first Calena I met was on her way to the states to marry a gay guy just to get her green card... She had family in the US who had arranged it... My second "head shaking" experience... All in the span of the first 24 hours of my first trip to LA...

I agree that the green card shark theory is overworked... I have heard many guys describe girls as sharks or scammers simply because they were rejected... I'm sure there are a few in LA, but nowhere near as many as in FSU or PI...

Your reference to the cinderella fantasy is correct... Uneducated girls with little or no hope in life, being whisked away to never-never land by the knight in shining armor... While a naive gringo, whose babe-o-meter is clanging, takes the pick of the litter so to speak... Desperate people can always rationalize their behaviour...

If a gringo understands the market and what is available, he MAY be able to see past the beauty and make reasonable decisions based on compatibility, common goals and chemistry... That is if he thinks with his big head...

The danger is that this process can become addictive... I have met guys that have been in the search for 5+ years... You can lose focus on the goal by enjoying all the candy... I'm not knocking it, if that's what you want... But you're right, a guy in an angency that doesn't match quickly is usually branded as a player by the girls...

... in response to Re: Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by wizard on May 31, 2003

Hey Gandolph. The story sounds really familiar. Were you at the Crystal Palace in July of 99. There was a guy there moaning about not wanting to hurt his other two novias. It was a very  bizaar introduction to the process. There were about seven guys there and every night they would sit around and discuss their problems with choosing the right one. I confess I met one and returned four times until I finally moved in with her. I was lucky, she really taught me some lessons about reality in Colombia before we broke up.
  I guess I am now a player, its just I am tired of teaching young girls about life and a lot of the older ones have a lot of baggage. I don't pretend to have the answers, its just that it makes me crazy when one of these guys acts so nuts over there. The normal Colombians just shake their heads and the agency owners just smile and put the wedding pictures on the wall. jim c

... in response to Re: Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by wizard on May 31, 2003

I have heard before the  comparison to picking out a puppy.The puppy,if you select a good breed,will undoubtably love you and be very loyal.I have a wonderfull golden reriever.For this dog not to love you you would have to be the biggest a--hole in the world.He even loves the mail man.
Women are more complicated.
I have seen the guys choosing fast and  have seen  players.I probably met more players at the agencies.They can go for years because its more fun to look than select.Funny thing,the players,for all of their looking,seem to make poor choices.
Seems like user guys hook up with user girls.Like attracts like it seems.When I see a guy showing us all kinds of pictures of the girls he has recently been dating I'm not too surprised to find out he made a poor choice when he did choose.
Our buddy Hoda has a point about looking within before starting the search.A sincere and carefull seeker will be almost assured of success in my mind.
But hey,its OK to play around.Just be carefull making the switch from that to marriage.

Pete

... in response to Pick of the liter, posted by Pete E on May 31, 2003

Yeah Pete,

I've met lots of players at agencies too... Makes me wonder though... Why do players work the agencies??? There are so many other ways to hook a babe in LA, why hit on girls in agencies who are looking for a commitment... It just makes our job that much harder, proving that we aren't ALL players... Took me a month to gain my wife's confidence for this very reason... She was very cautious as she had heard so many horror stories from her friends who were members of an agency...

I'm not knocking players... If that's what you want, there's no better place than in LA...

... in response to Re: Pick of the liter, posted by wizard on May 31, 2003

BECAUSE they are not players. The Player is the poor
Colombian guy with barely enough money to make the
cover charge who dances with the best-looking women
all night. He usually takes one of them home. He is
taking risks and maximizing the talents he has. He
cannot possibly misrepresent himself, or give himself
airs. The agency-players buy the most expensive rod-and-
reel money can buy, and then go to a fish pond. Only
one of the two classes above deserve to be called Players.

... in response to Re: Re: Pick of the liter, posted by Celt on Jun 2, 2003

The agency-players buy the most expensive rod-and-
reel money can buy, and then go to a fish pond. Only
one of the two classes above deserve to be called Players.

Thank you....now that was funny.

The chase is more fun then settling down and having to live with one of these girls long term.  Don't rush the chase...

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Pick of the liter, posted by Wayne11 on Jun 2, 2003

Then, if it is a chase--which is a game--let's call a
moratorium on the mewling, simpering complaints when a CaleNa is
"untrue" or "deceitful" with Mr. Elmer Player.

... in response to Re: Re: Pick of the liter, posted by Celt on Jun 2, 2003

The Colombian guy you describe could be called a player,but also the gringo we are talking about,even thought they are not the same.Also,the Colombiano WILL try to decieve,it might just be harder to believe.Gringos can probably tell about any story and have it believed,they think we are all rich,which we are,relatively speaking.
The gringo player to me is a guy who probably couldn't get a date here but is going wild with all the possibilties in Colombia.Barney Fife becomes Don Juan.Its a great little ego trip for these guys that becomes more important than just finding a good girl.

Pete

... in response to More than one type of player, posted by Pete E on Jun 2, 2003

Your last sentence was keen. That is the feedback I got
from my conversations with the agency owners, particularly
Ricardo. He mentioned to me that most of his customers
did not have alot of self-knowledge, and that more than
the reverse situation, it was the agency women who paid
the price.

For me, Player denotes guts, self-confidence, bravado, and
daring. Players should be able to do their thing in S.
Beach in Miami, without going to Colombia.

... in response to Re: More than one type of player, posted by Celt on Jun 2, 2003

The player you are talking about,which is probably the more
typical type in the US,is a whole different thing. To pull it off here does require bravado.
Our Gringo players in Colombia could only wish they could pull it off here.Most couldn't even meet a girl outside the agency,but they get very upset with the agency if the agency is not delivering the right girls to them,or if anything goes wrong with their plans.

Pete

... in response to Re: Pick of the liter, posted by wizard on May 31, 2003

Because its just so easy for players at an agency.Line up the girls.Start dating them,several at a time.If you run out of girls change agencies.A guy I met on my first trip was dating three or 4 girls at the same time,plus had a girl in Bogota who thought she was his novia.He continued this for a couple of years.Then he decided to get married.It lasted about a month.After all his dating he picked a real loser who didn't much care for him.I think he was just so in to what he wanted he couldn't read the girls at all,he was just too in to himself.

Pete

... in response to Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by jim c on May 31, 2003

Jim,
There is alot of truth in what you say here.There is a little bit,sometime alot of  lonely gingo meets cinderella with no future in most of the relationships that come out of this endevour.We both want what we can't find within the people we were meeting before.So we travel and they sign up at the agency.And shasam,we both seemingly find what we were looking for.
So whats the problem with this?Having it work in the long run,or even the short run while we both find out who we got married to.Of course its better to take your time and get to know the person.But guys jump in and do what they would never do here,just marry or get engaged to someone quickly.
I remember my own reaction to this.She wants me and I want
her.This doesn't need to be so difficult.I admit to impatience.I equated it with a man crawling across the desert,gettingo an oasis and having someone tell him he should wait awhile before taking a drink.
So I just jumped in and did it.I got engaged in 6 days and married in 2 months.Thankfully my judgement that my wife was a very good person is true.I have said in he past that you can always tell the really good girls right away.Anything less than a girl who impresses you as extremely genuine and you start taking a big risk.But the problem is you are marrying an immage,a dream in your mind in a way.You don't really know the person or how she will really feel about you when she is now spending all her time with you. Its a bit of a crap shoot if you know her one week or spend maybe 6 weeks her on 3 different trips.An E-mails and trying to talk on the phone really don't make up for realy spending time together.
So how do we increase the odds of choosing the right person?In a way your in the ideal situation being able to live there and really get to know the women.I have  a friend who traveled to Cali once a month for 3 years before getting maried.Most guys could never do that.So let me suggest something that might seem radical.This is such an important decision that it may be worth taking a year and moving to the city of choice to really get to know the lady.Most guys could do it if they really wanted too.
I just remembered a guy I used to work with.He got divorced from his AW.His family was Filipino,even though he was born here.He took a year off from work and moved to the Filipeans.This was 20 years ago,before there was much for agencies.His family there put the word out he was looking for a wife.There was a constant stream  of women presented to him.He spoke the language.He made a choice,marrying a girl with a college education who spoke english.It lasted 3 years and they got divorced.He married another AW.He was still a young good looking guy.So even there,no guarantees.
I guess the next best thing is the fiance visa,but you stll have to make your mind up pretty quickly.I now 2 guys who just did this.One girl got sent back,the other couple got married and it looks OK so far.
So how they hell do you know? I guess a little bit of caution would be well advised.Take a few weeks at least to get to know them.A little bit of luck helps also.
I admit to being influenced by one of the agency owners you speak of.He got married real quick and seemed to advise it to others.I guess that made it easier to just go ahead and do it myself.We are both still married although easy it has not been for either of us I think.

Pete

... in response to Lots of truth to what you say. What to d..., posted by Pete E on May 31, 2003

Am I the only person that finds it funny we need to caution people to "take a few weeks at least" to get to know them? I think a few weeks is NUTS. Ending the DCF is probably a good thing in Colombia. I am sure there were many guys going down and marrying a girl they know for a week and in less than a month she is in the states. That is just crazy

... in response to Re: Lots of truth to what you say. What ..., posted by Ralph on Jun 2, 2003

The new rules about direct counsoler filing will just add time to the visa process AFTER someone has already been married.The fiance visa starts looking more attactive.Who wants to get married and then wait to get her here?
A few weeks to get to now them is nuts?You sound like someone with no direct experience of the Colombia thing.Its not the same as here. And the distance and difficulty with time and money to travel cause guys to speed up things.Not smart maybe but understandable when you find the woman you
want.
How long a courtship do you think is needed?How would you go about it?How long do you think the above average Colombiana will wait around for a guy while he is making up his mind?

Pete

... in response to Re: Lots of truth to what you say. What ..., posted by Ralph on Jun 2, 2003

Agree with you in the cases of 'bought my ticket Monday, met her Tuesday, married her Thursady'.........but if you've known her for a while, say 6 months, it was a good way to get her in the States fast....of course if you leave it open for the 6 month people, the 2 day people will use it too, with the potential for disaster that you mentioned. I forgot to in the other post, but I want to thank Bala for giving a good 'heads up' to guys who were planning to DCF anyway, now they know to move the wedding up to before the dead line. I'm not saying start your trip today and hope to find one in time to meet the deadline, I'm only saying move the wedding date up if you have an existing relationship that you're already sure of.

... in response to Re: Lots of truth to what you say. What ..., posted by Ralph on Jun 2, 2003

Ralph,
I agree with you 100%!!!!  The cancellation of DCF's might hurt a little, but I think in the grand sceme of things, it will probably weed out some of the potential failures, due to the fact that couples will have to wait longer, & thus hopefully get to know each other better.
Of course, "quick" marriages can still happen under this ruling, but the lady will have to wait a little longer before she gets her visa.
Only time will tell on how this affects things.  We'll just have to see how things play out.

... in response to Re: Lots of truth to what you say. What ..., posted by Ralph on Jun 2, 2003

Ralph,
I agree with you 100%!!!!  The cancellation of DCF's might hurt a little, but I think in the grand sceme of things, it will probably weed out some of the potential failures, due to the fact that couples will have to wait longer, & thus hopefully get to know each other better.
Of course, "quick" marriages can still happen under this ruling, but the lady will have to wait a little longer before she gets her visa.
Only time will tell on how this affects things.  We'll just have to see you thing play out.

... in response to Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by jim c on May 31, 2003

Some good points.  After experimenting around with this for a while, I know that when I get serious enough to seriously consider marriage, I'm going to be spending a lot of time with the woman first by living in the same city.  Also, if two people aren't able to communicate by speaking the same language, it seems ridiculous getting married.

... in response to Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by jim c on May 31, 2003

shoot me an e-mail: VCultist@aol.com.

... in response to Nuts, just nuts..., posted by wizard on May 31, 2003

They are one trip wonders. I have seen it happen. If you get two desperate people together anything can happen.
Most of those guys have no idea what is available to them and maybe its for the best that they never find out.

... in response to Re: Nuts, just nuts..., posted by Calipro on May 31, 2003

I've seen more than my share of the one trip wonders myself... I just shake my head...