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I know he was taken a second time last week going out for cigarretes.  Any more info.  All of us traveling down to Colombia has always felt very safe in the cities.  Now with this happening in the city itself kind of changes everything. Any news or thoughts...

... in response to Any info on the kidnapped American(s) in..., posted by Throw on Jun 2, 2003

I am sure this is an isolated case and things like that have happened in Cali for many years.

... in response to Re: Any info on the kidnapped American(s..., posted by Kit on Jun 3, 2003

But getting robbed then doped in the space of a few days?  Sounds like he's being repeatedly targeted by the same group.  He ought to be on a plane out of Cali.  Or at the least in a secure hotel or a different part of town.

... in response to Any info on the kidnapped American(s) in..., posted by Throw on Jun 2, 2003

My wife and I went to Manizales and the Nevado De Ruiz over the weekend. My friend who went missing Wed. still hadn't been heard of when we left. Now, Monday evening I have news that he was found in an outlying area of Cali Sat. morning heavily doped, probobly with escalopine but they will start to run tests tomorrow to find out for sure. I spoke to him tonight in his home. He remembers his wife and her family here in Cali but not much else. Not really sure who I am. He will probobly have long term memory loss from this drug. My wife tells me the idea of using it is the victim can't remember anything about the crime or attackers. The only good news is they weren't kidnappers. The other missing Americans are three Colombo-Americans who went missing on a trip in a private car up to Lago Calima a couple of weeks ago. They apparently had underworld ties so...

... in response to Re: Any info on the kidnapped American(s..., posted by Cali vet on Jun 2, 2003

This guy's luck just sounds fishy?  Any chance that he told his wife one thing (going out for cigs) when really he was off to a local tavern or something and running with the wrong crowd?  "Missing/Robbed" twice in 1 week?  Either this guy has extremely bad luck or something else is going on!  Not knocking your friend here - just hard to imagine.

... in response to Any chance that..., posted by cancunhound on Jun 3, 2003

Cancunhound,
I was thinking the same thing.  this guy's story needs to be checked out more thoroughly.

... in response to Re: Any info on the kidnapped American(s..., posted by Cali vet on Jun 2, 2003

Don't believe I've heard of Escalopine, how is it administered.

... in response to Re: Re: Any info on the kidnapped Americ..., posted by Landover on Jun 3, 2003

I spelled it wrong. It's escopolamine. It can be injected or can be inhaled from a rag or paper. If ever anyone approaches you on the street in Colombia and tries to put a piece of paper close to your face asking you directions to an address or trying to show you a map back away quickly!

... in response to Re: Re: Any info on the kidnapped Americ..., posted by Landover on Jun 3, 2003

I got a flyer on it from the South American Explorers club in Quito that told of a woman who was handed a paper covered with the drug and was absorbed through her skin. She was then taken to various ATM's and stores  for the rest of the day. She was found the next day with no recollection of what happened. Store clerks remembered her in the company of 1-2 men. At the time I thought it sounded like an urban legend that may have had a grain of truth at its core. I didn't know it could lead to permanent memory loss.

... in response to I think he means Scopalomine, posted by surfscum on Jun 3, 2003

Right. I've been mixing up the Spanish and English versions.
A young person I'm told, can recuperate from the memory loss in a few months. An older person like my friend who is in his sixties could suffer permanent damage. Back to his case, the Gaula as part of their investigation will send him to be tested to find out exactly what was administered. Most likely it was scopalomine. Treatment for this by the way is actually specificly listed under coverages of my Colombian health insurence plan which gives an idea of how commonplace it is.

... in response to Re: I think he means Scopalomine, posted by Cali vet on Jun 3, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: I think he means Scopalomine, posted by Cali vet on Jun 3, 2003

What vendor did you end up going with and do you know if they have a website?  Since my wife/myself and son are frequently down there for a month at time I need to check into that (over the counter costs are starting to add up!).  Is it accepted at the better private clinics?  What's the monthly cost?

... in response to Your health plan in Colombia, posted by cancunhound on Jun 3, 2003

Coomeva Plan Dorado is supposed to be one of the best plans.
That for one plus the required EPS (gov) come to about $190.000.

... in response to Any info on the kidnapped American(s) in..., posted by Throw on Jun 2, 2003

I found this while searching for the price of kidnap insurance (about $20,000 for Colombia BTW).  Hope nobody needs to use this advice:

   * Try to avoid countries notorious for kidnapping: Colombia, Mexico, Chechnya, Yemen are just some. Americans doing business for Fortune 100 oil and mining companies in Colombia are at highest risk; low key backpackers and travelers are usually at low risk.
   * Strange as it sounds, the odds of extracting you are better in areas where kidnapping is done in conjunction with the police. Brazil and Mexico are just two countries where kidnapping is a business conducted in conjunction with the local police. Areas where kidnapping is intertwined with Maoist or Marxist ideology are much harder.
   * If someone you know is kidnapped, do not contact the police and do not talk to the press. Contact your embassy, the insurance company and/or a security consultancy to take the next steps. If you have a KRE policy, someone will be dispatched to act as a counselor within hours.
   * Tape record or write down any messages and do not commit to anything until the counselor or security help arrives.
   * Most security counselors will be ex-CIA, Mossad or other intelligence service pensioners. The British firms pull from their own pool of ex-SAS, Scotland Yard and MI-5 folks.
   * Your security counselor will not make any decisions but he will facilitate the process and act as a coach, a mediator and a go between. They will usually setup a committee that analyze input and demands and then make decisions. Usually the decisions are: Pay the money, stall, or negotiate the ransom downwards. Not the best of jobs for amateurs.
* The fatality rate on security-consultant handled kidnappings is a reassuring 2 percent compared to 9 percent for homemade efforts. Part of the skew is because some kidnap deaths can occur at the attack-the victims may die of illness, heart attack, or they can be killed during rescue attempts.

... in response to Some tips when you are invited to stay o..., posted by cancunhound on Jun 2, 2003

On one of my trips to Colombia, on the plane coming back, I sat next to a man who sells kidnapping insurance to the Colombian rich as well as other place.  I had an interesting conversation with him.  The price is prohibitively expensive for someone with a middle class income.  He told me that, in his opinion, Mexico was even more dangerous than Colombia and that the Mexican kidnappers are the most violent, cutting off body parts, and so forth.  He told me a hair raising story of a Colombian lady married to a doctor in Miami who was kidnapped several years ago out of the Bogotá airport (probably with the help of the police).  Basically, her family spread the news that she was coming, and someone talked to the wrong person.  He said that when he goes to Colombia he arranges a flight one week in advance and only tells a few trusted people.  He also told me about several kidnappings in Germany.  He also predicted that the problem is going to get much worse and will eventually reach the shores of America as America is eventually turned into another third world country with haves and have-nots by the rich and powerful.

... in response to Re: Some tips when you are invited to st..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 2, 2003

LOL @ your last sentence.

... in response to Re: Some tips when you are invited to st..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 2, 2003

What America does have is a police system that will aggresively pursue kidnapers.Its a high profile thing.
We don't tolerate what some countries do little about.
Where I live,San Jose,California,there is a famous local story of 2 kidnapers who were lynched by incensed citizens.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Some tips when you are invited t..., posted by Pete E on Jun 2, 2003

American police aggressively pursue kidnappers and are relatively non-corrupt only because they are paid a living wage with respect to their Latin American counterparts who can barely survive.  If America’s elite follow the present course of reducing democracy and succeed in turning the country into a division of haves and have-nots, the situation in America will not be any different than in Latin America.  In any case, as I mentioned, he described to me kidnappings in Germany, and Germans are no slackers on law and order.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Some tips when you are invit..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 3, 2003

I would argue that there is less real difference between the wealthy of our country and most of the people,who are basicaly middle class and affluent by the standard of most of the world.I thing the have nots here have little excuse.Look at what our new immigrants are capabel of.While some people are whining their disenfranched asses off,with lots of agrement from big government type politicians,  these people come her with huge disadvantages like language and legal residence issues and still make it.
I would like to do a little exchange student program,trading our welfare cases for people fom a small village in Mexico.If you can't make it in the old USA you can't make it anywhere.Enough of factory workers making more than proffesionals.Those days are over.The jobs will move if the labor costs are too high.But in this country you can make more of yourself,No kid has to think if I can't  make cars and get $30 an hour there is no hope.Try turning off the rap music and studying a little.There is emmense opportunity here for those who will work just a little at it.Look at our imigrants as an example.
If you look back 50 or 100 years you will see much more disparity of income here.There is opportunity like no where else.Those who don't think so need to experience a little somewhere else for perspective.

Pete

... in response to Haves and have nots, posted by Pete E on Jun 3, 2003

Amen, brother.