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One of my wife's girlfriends came by today for a visit. She mentioned having applied for a tourist visa but being denied. She has a job "comun y corriente" where my wife used to work. I asked her what she hoped to visit while in the states or if perhaps her real plan was to stay illegaly. It was the latter of course. Don't know why but that pissed me off. I get sick of our country being viewed by these people as the great free candyland with a govt. that can be easily slicked. There are opportunities here in Colombia and plenty of enterprising people who pursue them successfully without the aide of corruption, influence or coming from a wealthy family. Yes I know I know all about the economic situation but I get really fed up with the simplistic notion that upon landing in Miami they will be handed a sack of gold instantly solving all their problems.

... in response to Paved With Gold, posted by Cali vet on May 7, 2003

Most illegal immigrants are working their rears off at low wages doing what American citizens won't do.  Some are virtually slaves.  Your wife's friend has a lot in common with Europeans who stuffed themselves into boats 100 or 200 years ago to have a chance at a new life in America.  Agree with your comment about the streets not being paved with gold in the U.S., though.

... in response to Paved With Gold, posted by Cali vet on May 7, 2003

I agree there are opportunities in Colombia but not near as much as in the US, and the comparative wages are astonishing.  The pot of gold notion certainly is spread by their friends who've made it to the states.  3 married gals that I know here, all legal - are working as "house cleaners" - a skill/occupation that none would have had back in Colombia.  The notion that Colombians are lazy is BS, all these gals are go-getters, and they can pull down $75 per house, cleaning 3 houses each per day - TAX FREE - $60K a year, driving their big SUV's that they paid for!
Entering and staying illegaly is tougher, but apparently it's worthwhile judging from those that I've met (example, degreed engineer now working as an auto mechanic).  Interesting to note that one Calena, here legaly, has her eyes set on moving to Spain after a couple more years of house cleaning - so the streets are not necessarily paved with gold.  The list of countries that don't require a visa for Colombians is pretty small - I believe Japan would be the only one that would offer opportunities like the US, but the ticket to get there would be out of reach.  I believe I read somewhere where Spain was offering a citizenship program for latin americans who could establish a heritage link - you would think that would be an attractive option for Colombians if possible.  But given US proximity and feeble border security, this is a problem we'll be dealing with for awhile.

... in response to Paved With Gold, posted by Cali vet on May 7, 2003

CV,
I can understand people from the US geting tired of people coming here by dishonest means.But I can understand more why they want to.
You live in Cali full time and know it better than me.I think a determined and ambitious person can do OK even there.But it seems a whole lot tougher than here.I think there is a certain amount of laziness,particularly on the part of some of the women.Why struggle if you can come to the US where every thing is easier? It particularly bothers me if a american guy was abused in the process.
But - - -,relatively speaking,compared to what they are used to,the opportunities and possibilties are tremendous.Paved in Gold of course overstates,just like died and gone to heaven overstated my first impressions of Cali women.A person coming here has so much more opportunity.And if you put that together with her being a beautifull woman,its a whole different world.Can't get even a  Colombiano loser/abuser there to stick around.Here she gets her choice of successfull guys.
No sacks of gold,but for a beautifull woman what opportunity.And for people willng to work hard what opprtunity.They only want what we were so lucky to be born in to.And most of us here take it for granted and some here think they are disenfranchised.
I guess I should leave unidentified for the purpose of domestic harmony a certain young Colombiano I know who just
lost the job he recently got.I'm sure he could do better here,which he would love to do.Actually I think he could
screw it up here also.He fits your sack of  gold anology.
But alas,no f---king way for the visa.Same as your wifes girlfriend.Dream on unless you got a gringo on the hook.
New motto at the US embassy,"we ain't got to give you no stinking tourist visa.".Apologies to the director of "Sierra Madre" for stealing his line.

Pete

... in response to Re: Paved With Gold, posted by Pete E on May 8, 2003

"I think there is a certain amount of laziness,particularly on the part of some of the women.Why struggle if you can come to the US where every thing is easier?" Pete I guess it's this that bothers me. It's also what I see as simple greed and I'm amazed at how fast the supposed super close family ties get pitched out the window when they see an opportunity to jump ship. I persued the story further and it turns out the girlfriend has a girlfriend who slipped through the tourist application process getting that visa and is now in the US illegaly. She of course is the inspiration for my wife's girlfriend. There's a book that describes an earlier wave of illegal imigration by Colombians in the 80s called "El Hueco" (The Hole) by German Castro Caycedo. I am not referring here in any way to women who legitimatly marry US citizens.

... in response to Re: Re: Paved With Gold, posted by Cali vet on May 8, 2003

CV,
I agree but let me comment on one part.The close nit family ties do not always go out the window when they come here,legal or otherwise.My experience is most off the girls
wish to be close to their families but make a choice to come here.Part of that choice can be to try and help the family from here.They will probably miss the family alot and want to talk by phone and travel back often.
But a huge issue they need to face is if the come her illegally or overstay the tourist visa if they are a rare one to have it,they can't go back because they can't get back in to the country.I think they get banned from returning for like 10 years for overstaying a visa.
One alternative,if they do have a tourist visa is to not overstay it.The visa used to allow a stay of up to 6 months.Recently I hear of some being restriced to one month.
One option is to leave the country before the allowed time period expires and re enter the country again.This may now be stiffled by immigration.A solution I have heard about is Colombians living in Florida taking a one day trip to the Bahamas before the visa expires,buying themselves another 6 months.They could also return to Colombia and re enter,if they did not overstay and immigration hasn't come up with a new roadblock.
I know some other ways Colobianas have gotten around the rules.Sounds like you would not approve and perhaps I don't either in theory,but I have understood and  sympathised with the person in some actual cases.Again they just want what we  were born into by dumb luck.

Pete

... in response to Paved With Gold, posted by Cali vet on May 7, 2003

I hope I don't get too political in this post.  But, CV, many Latin Americans feel the US is paved with gold because for some that is exactly the way it is.  In the news today was the story of 4 Cubans whom the Coast Guard intercepted just off the Florida Keys.  Rather than let themselves be taken on board the CG boats, the 4 jumped into the water and swam several miles to Key Largo.  

Three made it to land and they will be allowed to stay permanently in the US.  One had to be rescued from the water and he will probably go back to Cuba.  The newscasters were pointing out that any Cuban who makes it to US land gets the Green Card!  When stories like this get publicized repeatedly in LA the entire continent develops the attitude you saw in your wife's girlfriend.

... in response to Re: Paved With Gold, posted by Brazilophile on May 8, 2003

I have  friend here in Costa Rica who is Cuban and immigrated to the US on a raft about 7 years ago.  He is a commercial fisherman and got so sick of all of the regulations and crap that he had to go through in the US to make a living that he now lives in Costa Rica.  I think it's funny story.  To risk your life to get into the US and then find out you hate it and move on to another country.

He likes Costa Rica more then the US but I think he was out in the sun a little too much on his way to the US.  It effected his brain.

Wayne

... in response to Re: Paved With Gold, posted by Brazilophile on May 8, 2003

Like I said in my post "I know I know about the economic situation". I have an American friend here who lived in Cuba for awhile and from what he tells of his experience the degree of hopelessness in Cuba goes far beyond that in Colombia at least in a city like Cali anyway. I also wonder why the absolute fixation on the US. Many countries in Europe have glowing economys. I have a relative in Norway I'd like to visit but it's hugely expensive enjoying an economy that's beyond my means for the time being. That ought to be an attractive economy to sneak into if your goal is the big bucks. Anyway it's become a pet peeve.