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since the "subject" has already been initiated. "Lying ingrained in the Colombian culture"--This sounds harsh, is it true?--it may be...I can respect that opinion but personally I dont believe it but here is a fact........been reading a great book by Michael Brownstein "World on Fire"--his direct quote which UNcoincently is also a FACT--(page 57, last couple of paragraphs). "Greed not restricted to any one color or nationality, obviously.  Third World managerial classes gaily milking their own people, offering transnationals anorexic wages and a disposable enviroment.
    But let's not forget that America's the prime example.
    The U.S. (five percent of Earth'spopulation) selling half the weapons in the world and buying one quarter of the oil.
    Such junkie economics cushioned by consumption of more than half the sleeping pills, tranquilizers, and other legal drugs sold worldwide, as well as half the illegal drugs."  I commend this true American for having the courage to wake us up with reality, it seems that if one is not blonde, blue eye and agrees with these facts would be labaled as "anti-American, but not going there because this great country does have freedom of speech. My point is it takes alot to admit one's mistakes and I KNOW I dont represent the over 44 million Colombians but I must admit Colombianas/Latinas in general do tend to be a little more "jeolous" compared to the American counterparts-but compulsive lyers????...maybe...lol-dont think so....In conclusion its very sad the world hates us (Americans) but whats even sadder is that they cant DISTINQUISH between  the average "JOE" that has NOTHING to do with the "CR@PP that a "few" politicians, corporations, etc...causes....God Bless--Colman

... in response to Wow-I hate to bring this up but I will....., posted by colman on Apr 21, 2003

...once again, this bozo talks about everything but the topic at hand...Colombianas.

What a windbag.

JunFan out.

... in response to Wow-I hate to bring this up but I will....., posted by colman on Apr 21, 2003

I am more than a little confused how you took the topic and turned it into an anti American speech.  Personally I like much better your little teenage post that you do.  I can't figure them out but I like em better.

... in response to Confused, posted by Hiker on Apr 22, 2003

but I still hold to it as being a response based on a prior thread--GodBless-Colman

... in response to Wow-I hate to bring this up but I will....., posted by colman on Apr 21, 2003

Interesting post.  Some researcher in psychology in the U.S. did a study and concluded the average American lies once a day.  Maybe it's a matter of the stakes too.  Here in the U.S. you might not lie to pocket an extra couple of hundred dollars or to impress a date.  But in Colombia if you're trying to support yourself and a couple of family members on $200 A MONTH, or if a rich gringo offers you a passport to a better existence, that might change the picture.  I'd disagree strongly, though, with your thoughts re: American corporations.  Where I've worked at least, a job in a third world country with a U.S. or European company is highly prized, as salary, working conditions, etc. are much better than what the locals provide.  You see demonstrations overseas against McDonalds, Coca Cola, etc., not because of working conditions, but because they're symbols associated with U.S. government policy.

... in response to Re: Wow-I hate to bring this up but I wi..., posted by Miguel on Apr 22, 2003

big shot stockbroker/banker adviser of how he made 100 million in one year by telling his "buddies" about pre-public info about stocks--the bankers agreed and thats how he made his money (illegally) well the feds are saying hes going to see jail time-as he deserves (I imagine its going to be some club met type of jail)-your last point I do agree somewhat but I STILL believe Colombianas/Latinas are NOT compulsive liars-in my experiences with Colombinas, they are extremely FRANK--frankness may not be the sibling of honesty (synomyns) but they sure are cousins-anyway thanks for the response and God Bless--Colman

... in response to Wow-I hate to bring this up but I will....., posted by colman on Apr 21, 2003

Colman,
The amount of oil we use has nothing to do with honesty.Dito for weapons sales.At least we try to keep them out of the bad guys hands.There is a point of view that there are no good guys/bad guys.If you can't tell the difference between a George Bush or a Tony Blair and a Saddam Hussien and a Pol Pot you might believe this.Tony Blairs passionate defence of his possition to a hostile English parlement brought tears to my eyes.He was doing it because he believed it to be the right thing to do.It certainly was not the expedient thing to do.He put his political future right on the line for his beliefs.Its not every day you see heroism in action.
And 75 % of the average Joes are solidly behind Bush.Thats pretty high when you consider thats got to include over half of the democrats.
And other peoples reffences to old past issues like slavery and indian lands equally irrelevent.600,000 americans died in a war that ended slavery.
Sorry I went political again.But you raised the issue.And if you want to get evidence to bash America you need look no further than the american universities US tax payers spend alot of $$$ to fund.They don't know about good guys bad guys because they live in a world of theory.
And I didn't say all Colombians were pathological liars.I said my impression was they thought less of telling a lie than I think many of us have been raised to do.Just my personal experience.
But I still like you,even if I think you are a bit niaeve sometimes.Don't buy everything some BS college proffesor says,They can be REALLY out of it.

Pete

... in response to Re: Wow-I hate to bring this up but I wi..., posted by Pete E on Apr 22, 2003

expect responses when you have an opinion about Colombianas/Latinas that to ME seems to be a target of some here to interpret it as a generaliztions--hey I know its hard to get a point across genuinely I for one have commited some in this forum. I apoligized to you about the whole cop/racial profiling thing because in retrospect I realized that I was angry (having a friend go through this)-I was wrong then and admitted it but at least WE both shared our opinions. I think speaking your mind is much better than actually taking out ones agressions on innocent people. Many people who hold in thier problems go through self-destruction and have a tendency to react in a negative and unacceptable way--anyway thanks for the response and God bless...Colman

... in response to Pete, dont want to bring this up again b..., posted by colman on Apr 23, 2003

Colman,
Of course any time someone,like myself,looks at the behavior of some people they know and make a presumtion that it is generally true it is a generalization.
Generalizations can be true and accurate.The problem can be assuming that means everyone.That is unfair to the individual.Not everybody fits the mold,usually.
And we don't want to take it an extra step and presume things like that means they are bad people.I still think Latinas including Colombianas are,again in general,an excellent choice because they have better values than any other foriegn place I can think of.There are things like love and loyalty of family and good family values that do not go away if they are inclined to tell you a lie vs the truth in a particular situation.
And getting off in to things like correctnes of government policies doesn't change individual behavior traits.You know me,I'm political and like to go there,but it strays from the subject.
I think you and Aaron are great guys.You are a little more in to theory and what should be than some of us.
I may put my story in a little more personal perspective some time.I admit I am reacting to some things I have experienced. Might not be true for most,certainly not all.

Pete

... in response to Wow-I hate to bring this up but I will....., posted by colman on Apr 21, 2003

What is the origin of the cliche "no da la papaya"?

I have an idea, so I will try to explain. Correct me if I am wrong.

Literally, "no da la papaya" means "don't give away the papaya". I believe this expression is based on the importance the papaya has in the Colombian diet. Papaya is a very common food, and it is eaten regularly, pratically daily. For a family to just give papayas away would be giving away food freely, and facing the risk of not being able to acquire more papayas.

Then figurativelly speaking, "no da la papaya" means simply "don't take the risk". That's all. That's it.

Don't take the risk of giving away resources, and if somone gives you resources, use them. Don't take the risk of putting yourself in an unfavorable situation, whatever a person considers unfavorable. That's it.

In the USA, gringos could probably say, DON'T GIVE AWAY THE BIG MAC.

Aaron

... in response to Very good post Colman and Question for y..., posted by Aaron on Apr 22, 2003

"no da la papaya" means like dont set yourself up or initiate an "oppurtunity" where others will take advantage of you. For example if a manager's top priority at the jobsite is punctuation-and someone got fired because of lack of it (even though he knew otherwise) he "dio la papaya" Also if someone is qouted as a person who "no da la papaya" this roughly means that person is an avion(literally a plane-but another word used as a slang word to mean very sneaky ,thrifty or ready for anything-not really in a negative way-jsut very aware)--your analogies are interestin and good--also with respect to the females who see this forum, papaya may also mean (not just in Colombia) a females um, eh female part-I wont say it but you can use your imagination--God Bless--Colman

... in response to very close indeed Aaron....., posted by colman on Apr 23, 2003

In that case, what does "no hay papaya" mean? My
brother-in-law in Cali has used this, with a head
shrug, several times. Any idea?

... in response to very close indeed Aaron....., posted by colman on Apr 23, 2003

Thanks for the explanation, and that tidbit of information. Actually, it is a coincidence that I was thinking the same thing, a papaya could be used to represent the same female body part you are referring to.

An older woman friend from Bucaramanga also told me that the word "melocoton" can also be used to refer to that same special part of a woman that many men love so dearly.

I love these words, and Colombian phrases. And, they can be fun, without being dirty.

Peace,
Aaron

... in response to Yo Colman !!!!!!!!! LOL !!!!!!!!!!, posted by Aaron on Apr 23, 2003

Also: la arepa
     la cuca
     el pan
     la panocha
     el chicherron

and many more.

... in response to Yo Colman !!!!!!!!! LOL !!!!!!!!!!, posted by Aaron on Apr 23, 2003

want my peaches, please don't shake my tree.

... in response to If you don't , posted by Michael B on Apr 23, 2003

ugly looking crack of yours.

Aaron

... in response to Wow-I hate to bring this up but I will....., posted by colman on Apr 21, 2003

You love it.  Another chance to bash America.  America is the prime example?  You dont know what in the world you are talking about and finding a quote in somebodys book doesnt make it so.  I can find a book to back up any point anybody wants to make.  American people are definitely, as a whole, some of the most honest people in the world and that bothers you to no end when you hear other opinions about Colombia.  Your first knee jerk reaction is to bash this country..your like a broken record.  Why is it so hard for you to accept that Colombia is f-ed up???  It can still be a good place to meet someone without living in denial about it.  You find it so easy to defend that place while bashing the USA to  no end.  Its rather childish and the mark of an amatuer.  Maybe you should try living there for a year or so and then tell us how America sucks.....

... in response to No, you dont hate it..., posted by Yalg on Apr 22, 2003

nt

... in response to No, you dont hate it..., posted by Yalg on Apr 22, 2003

Sorry....theres not point in you and I even discussing this, just disregard the post. You and I will never agree so theres no point.