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I'm pissed at Paula Zahn (The Edge on Fox News) for her "Mail Order Bride or Sex Tour" segment on Fox News last night. One of her "expert guests" was an ex-prostitute. What's she an expert at? Same old crap - middle aged, fat, balding, seedy, loser American having to go overseas to "buy" scared, compliant sex slaves then bring them hme to abuse and even murder them. I used to think Paula was respectable. Here's the e-mail I sent to her and to the general fox news comments. I encourage you all to e-mail your protests to her and fox news at these e-mail addresses: theedge@foxnews.com and comments@foxnews.com

----

Paula:
I used to think you were, as your network likes to say, a fair and unbiased reporter
of the news, to let the viewer decide and WAS a dedicated viewer. In this Sex
Tours segment, you painted the "mail order bride" (a misnomer in itself) trend as
something seedy and evil - even connecting it to violence and "trafficing" in women
(your ex-prostitute guest used the term "purchasing women"). Obviously you did
exactly ZERO "investigative" reporting. Never have I seen so much false innuendo
and out-and-out lies presented in such a short time and, to top it off Linda Vester
opened the segment with somehow connecting a recent Seattle murder with people
seeking "mail order brides." A single event performed by one sick individual does
not somehow represent the group. This event no more represents the character of
men marrying foreign women any more than Lorena Bobbit's actions represent the
character of American women.

Had you actually INVESTIGATED this issue, you would have discovered that most
men seeking foreign women as wives are not losers "having" to go overseas to
"purchase" foreign women because they are "compliant." Rather they're fairly
successful, conservative, religeous, old fashioned men looking for old fashioned,
loyal women to be their life partners. You'd also have found that the brides
themselves are not cowering, scared sex slaves, but rather independent, happy and
loyal wives, often the cream of the crop in their own countries where highly
educated, intelligent women are often not considered marriage material. In your
INVESTIGATION, you would also have discovered that the incidence of violence
is LOWER than with American/American couples, the divorce rate is FAR
LOWER, and in general these marriages are happy and successful.

Yes, there are sex tours - but guess what - they have nothing to do with American
men seeking wives overseas. If an American wanted to go on one to the far east,
he'd have to travel to Japan and join there.

I'm happily married to an asian woman for 14 years. Is she my compliant, sex slave
that I purchased? - NO. She's my partner in life, strong willed, independent, and a
far better investor than I (That's why she handles the family finances.) It was she, not
I who was married before and we raised her step daughter to be strong and
independent, as well. Our stepdaughter just graduated from Cal Poly with a BS in
international business and speaks three languages (thanks to several semesters, we
sent her to college in Europe.) Me? I'm not the sex tour type either, I'm 6'4" tall, in
shape, have a full head of hair, a BS in engineering, an MBA, am CEO of a medium
sized manufacturing company, am deeply religeous, have no debts, substantial
investments, a paid for home near the beach in Southern California. Does this sound
like the stereotypical couple your "ex-prostitute" guest (by the way, what does that
make her an expert in???????) was painting.

So much for your "investivative reporting" and presenting the facts. Now I know
you're just another media egotist who's out to forward her own agenda. You sure
lost one viewer. I'll stick to O'Rielly

Jeff Spira
Huntington Beach, California

PS. If you really want to investigate, start here:
www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/

... in response to Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by SoCal Jeff on Jan 6, 2002

She also said something about a man killing his 20 year old MOB, but they didn't go into any details. It is bad that one nut decided to kill his MOB, ecspecially considering how precious and innocent these women are. It breaks my heart to think about it.

I think we should all email FOXNews and tell them to do another story on the MOB marriages that don't end in murder.

... in response to Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by SoCal Jeff on Jan 6, 2002

Just by chance I happened to be channel surfing at the time and caught the promo just before it came on...so I of course watched it.  It was the typical hatchet job that one typically sees on the networks.  I can't help noticing that these stories almost always link "mail order brides" to "sex tour" organizers.  They never show the legitimate companies which far outnumber the sex tour businesses.  If I were an uninformed outsider who learned about overseas marriages from the tv stories, I would believe that all men met their wives in a dimly lit backroom while they danced in g-strings for their prospective husbands.  It was obvious that the feminist, ex-hooker expert for Paula Zahn had no knowledge whatsoever of overseas marriages.  She just repeated the typical feminist mantra that all these women are exploited, purchased, and abused by despicable Western men."  I doubt it will ever change.

... in response to Re: Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by Allan on Jan 8, 2002

to the piece.  You left out 1/2 of the guests on the show.

... in response to Why didn't  YOU give full coverage, posted by curt on Jan 9, 2002

There was Paula Zahn the host....there was the guy who was obviously running a business primarily geared toward sex tours (which Paula made to appear as a typical "mail order bride" business)...and there was the feminist, ex-hooker giving her views to counter the man.  Who were the other guests I left out?????  I watched the entire segment and I don't recall other guests than those mentioned above.  Please tell.

... in response to What?????????, posted by Allan on Jan 10, 2002

Please show me where in your previous post that you mentioned the male guest on the show.  Sure, you mentioned that in your last, as if you had talked about him before.

... in response to For ONE, posted by curt on Jan 10, 2002

Actually, Curt, your posts are so ludicrous they don't even deserve a response.  For what little it's worth, my original post was directed to the one by SoCal Jeff.  He knew the show I was talking about.  I made the statement,

"I can't help noticing that these stories almost always link "mail order brides" to "sex tour" operators."

That was my reference to the male sex tour operator on the show.

Now that I've cleared that up you stated that I left out half the "guests" (meaning more than one), and your heading to this post was- "For ONE".  So please tell me the other guests that Paula Zahn talked to on the show.

... in response to Re: For ONE, posted by Allan on Jan 10, 2002

Guest is plural.  2 is more than one.  There were 2 guests on the show so I used the plural.  1/2 of 2 is 1.  It would have been improper English to say "1/2 of the guest" which is apparently what you want me to have said.

... in response to Re: For ONE, posted by Allan on Jan 10, 2002

Try as I may, I cannot infer that your following statement gives me any information related to the second guest.

"I can't help noticing that these stories almost always link "mail order brides" to "sex tour" operators."

... in response to Re: Re: For ONE, posted by curt on Jan 10, 2002

Conversation terminated.

... in response to Yawn, posted by Allan on Jan 10, 2002

Don't forget to take your ball with you.

... in response to Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by SoCal Jeff on Jan 6, 2002

"The Census Bureau reported Wednesday that 84 percent of all Asian-American children in 1997 were living with both parents, significantly above the national average."

http://www.divorcereform.org/mel/rasian.html

If these families do so well, then families with one asian parent must be a step in the right direction :-)

Jim

... in response to Asian-American families stay together, posted by Jimbo on Jan 8, 2002


Seventy-seven percent of non-Hispanic white children live in two-parent homes, the second highest rate for any major ethnic or racial group.

... in response to Compared to:, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

nt

... in response to The point: the asian influence must be a..., posted by Jimbo on Jan 8, 2002

how do you make the leap from a two asian parent family to saying that a mixed race/culture family is a positive step from the 77% for the two culturally similar white parent family?

... in response to Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by SoCal Jeff on Jan 6, 2002

I didn't see this show but maybe Fox's ratings are going down. What else gets viewers interest up more than reports about "teen-age sex slaves?"

To marry and sponsor a foreigner then abuse her is like begging "please divorce me and devastate my financial future."

There are simply too many financial risks for a guy to marry one except out of than true love.

I can't speak for any ladies other than my own (Filipina). But after 2 1/2 half years, it's obvious she is only in it for love too.

Was this a national show or local show in Cali?
What did the prostitute say?
Did they interview any couples?
What was the point of the show?

... in response to Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by SoCal Jeff on Jan 6, 2002

Paula Z has always been a joke.  As for your mail to Fox, where do you get YOUR facts?

"cream of the crop in their own countries where highly educated, intelligent women are often not considered marriage material. In your INVESTIGATION, you would also have discovered that the incidence of violence is LOWER than with American/American couples, the divorce rate is FAR LOWER, and in general these marriages are happy and successful."

These may be your misguided opinions but they are not the facts.

... in response to Re: Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by curt on Jan 6, 2002

cbf (or whatever handle you're going by these days),

I was just curious. Why is it that if someone else’s opinions are different from yours, then that person’s opinions are “misguided”?

Do you believe that your opinions are necessarily better than everyone else’s?

Ray

... in response to Opinions, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

When someone states as fact things that are contrary to fact or not supported by fact, then my opinion is that they are misguided opinions.

... in response to Re: Opinions, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

Then could you please give us the REAL facts on American/foreign divorce rates? I'm not necessarily agreeing with the 20% figure, but I haven't seen anything tangible to refute it with.

Ray

... in response to Facts, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

That "20%" figure is based on nothing more than client testimonials collected by the agencies themselves. Anecdotal evidence is never enough to substantiate a claim or prove a hypothesis. Just ask a medical expert or any scientist on this -- you need carefully gathered and measured data before you can use it to support a claim, and the honest truth is, nobody knows for sure the success rates for mail order marriages because reliable data is simply not available.

Niall (From the Russian board)

... in response to Re: Facts (Surely you're not that naive), posted by Niall on Jan 8, 2002

Niall,

Your opinions are always welcome here on the Asian board, but it’s really not necessary over here to call each other names.

No, I’m not naïve. Please read my reply again. I never said that I agreed with the figures in the report. I am not trying to substantiate their claim or prove a hypothesis. I was merely asking cbf/Curt to show us HIS facts.

He repeatedly criticizes anyone who uses those figures from the government report and claims that it’s only their “misguided opinions” that are not supported by the facts. If you are going to jump someone for misstating the facts, then it’s only fair to present the real facts to support your position. Now, I would tend to agree with you that reliable data on this topic is not available. However, cbf/Curt has told us in the past that the actual hard statistics show that the failure rate in these foreign marriages is at least as high if not higher than in those between two Americans. I only wish that he would share those “hard statistics” with us so that we can all learn something from them.

Again, welcome to the Asian board.

Ray

... in response to Who's Naive?, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

nt

... in response to Who's Naive?, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

It is interesting that you have now taken my position (that no reliable data exists) and try to discredit me by FALSELY representing my position.  You would make WJC and Algore proud.

... in response to Re: Who's Naive?, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

cbf (AKA Curt),

Nobody needs to try to discredit you. You do a good job of that yourself every time you post here. Why should anyone take you seriously when you can’t even stick to one handle?

Now if you are attempting to call me a liar, why don't you just say so in plain English and quit beating around the bush.

Ray

... in response to Try to discredit you?, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

nt

... in response to Try to discredit you?, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

nt

... in response to Who's Naive?, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

Where I have stated the words you attribute to me!!!  In fact, in this thread, I have said there were none!

... in response to I challenge you to show, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

Since your memory is so bad, you’ll find this in archive 028.

Original Post:

                GOOD REPORTS! :-)
Posted by Ron on October 01, 2000 at 08:10:35:
From internet access server uhiuhi009.lava.net at IP address 64.65.74.105
We hear so many bad reports about foreign marriages. We hear about the boyfriends waiting back home, the money scams, etc...
However, the actual hard statistics point to an overwhelming success rate among foreign marriages compared to those marriages involving two americans. So why do we not hear about the successes? Why are they not posted here?

Your reply:

                   The actual
Posted by cbf on October 07, 2000 at 02:56:14:
From internet access server spider-tr042.proxy.aol.com at IP address 152.163.201.192
In Reply to: GOOD REPORTS! :-) posted by Ron on October 01, 2000 at 08:10:35:
hard statistics show that the failure rate is at least as high if not higher.

Now how about sharing those “hard statistics” with us? Of course, knowing you, I’m sure you’ll try to weasel your way out of this one too.

Ray

... in response to OK Mr. Mouth, posted by Ray on Jan 9, 2002

name calling when they in fact are NOT name calling but YOU are the one that gets off on name calling????

... in response to Why do you admonish others for, posted by curt on Jan 10, 2002

There, is that any better?

ROTFLMAO!

You seem intent on continuing this thread, so please give these good folks here a break. If you have anything further to say on the subject, please send it to the following e-mail address:

ray_snyder@nospam.com

Ray

... in response to cbf is a big hairy troll, posted by Ray on Jan 10, 2002

like others to call names on this board, you sure are one to be talking.  Of course you would like me off the board but that is not your decision.

... in response to Fine - for one who does not like, posted by curt on Jan 10, 2002

...you're dead wrong again as usual. ROTFLMAO! You're hilarious!

Now, now, calm down cbf. You're starting to lose it again. Did I ever say I wanted you off of this board? I think a touch paranoia is setting in. The truth is, I couldn’t care less if you stay or leave. That’s totally up to you. Besides, you’re always good for a laugh :-)

I see my inbox is empty, so once again, your comments can be sent directly to:

ray_snyder@nospam.com

Ray

... in response to Of course..., posted by Ray on Jan 11, 2002

That was Allen.  You only want me to take this off the board - AFTER calling me names.

... in response to Of course..., posted by Ray on Jan 11, 2002

where you said the conversation was terminated.  Not a man of your word are you?

... in response to I thought I saw a previous post, posted by curt on Jan 11, 2002

Don't drink while flaming  :-)

Ray

... in response to Friendly Advice, posted by Ray on Jan 11, 2002

Actually, I had eliminated my morning cup of coffee and was "enjoying" my morning exercise routine.

... in response to OK Mr. Mouth, posted by Ray on Jan 9, 2002

My reply was a slam on his use of the term "actual hard statistics" without backing up his claim to his reference.

... in response to Re: OK Mr. Mouth, posted by curt on Jan 9, 2002

Yep, just as I thought. You’re such a fake! Bill Clinton and algore would be proud of you.

Just about every reply you’ve ever posted here is a slam against somebody. You contribute nothing to this forum but a bunch of negative snide remarks and “misguided opinions” that nobody cares about.

So, why don’t you get a life?

Ray

... in response to BULL CR@P!!!, posted by Ray on Jan 9, 2002

Over at the Russian board, these kinds of posts  have a very short lifespan as they tend to get deleted very quickly.

... in response to BULL CR@P!!!, posted by Ray on Jan 9, 2002

on this board really gets your back up.

... in response to Gosh - a dose of truth every now and the..., posted by curt on Jan 9, 2002

You just don’t get it. What you proclaim as the “truth” is nothing more than your personal opinions. It’s your arrogance and your condescending attitude that turns people off. You insult others and call their opinions “misguided”, while offering nothing more than your own opinions as evidence of “fact”. You’re opinions are no better than those of anyone else on this forum, so quit trying to pass them off as the almighty truth.

Try showing some respect for others’ ideas and give up trying to impress everyone with your proclaimed superior knowledge. If you don’t have anything positive to offer, try listening sometimes.

Now, that’s just my opinion.

Ray

... in response to Just another dose of your B.S., posted by Ray on Jan 10, 2002

respect truth and fairness.  When people slant the truth to their own motives, they deserve to be called on it.

... in response to Re: Facts (Surely you're not that naive), posted by Niall on Jan 8, 2002

The figure is also based on a report from the Commission on Filipinos Overseas (CFO).

Jim

... in response to Not true, posted by Jimbos on Jan 8, 2002

nt

... in response to Bull Cr@p  nt, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

You yourself posted the quote.  Try reading it.

"It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above)..."

... in response to Can you read?, posted by Jimbos on Jan 8, 2002

Can't you read "largely"????????

... in response to Re: Can you read?, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

Niall: "That 20% figure is based on nothing more than client testimonials..."

Please cbf, take the time to read the posts of others more carefully before responding, in order that you might make a more positive contribution than your "Bull Cr@P" posting.

Jim

... in response to Wrong cbf --- Niall said "nothing m..., posted by Jimbos on Jan 8, 2002

Nial's statement more clearly represents the report than your statements.  Basically, there is NO factual data, as Nial said.

... in response to Facts, posted by Ray on Jan 8, 2002

There are no facts an the divorce rate.  I would suspect that it would be similar to the US norm with many competing, individual factors.  Bottom line - each couple should work on the weaknesses and build on their strengths with the understanding that any marriage needs that special effort and that there are no shortcuts to success.  I will strongly disagree with SCJ that the "cream of the crop" enter the MOB scene.  They do not, just as the cream of the crop in the US do not.  One fact that is known but hard to interpret is that each year fewer AOS, etc., are granted than K1 visas.  Apparently, there is a large failure rate in this area but the exact effect is unknown since there is a time delay factor between the two events.

... in response to Re: Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by curt on Jan 6, 2002

Curt,

Shame on you not believing us!  Here is a link to the
report. Apendix A talks about the 80% success rates of
marriages.  This is fact not your fantasy world...

http://www.planet-love.com/doj/

... in response to Here is a link to the Report!!!, posted by DanB on Jan 8, 2002

DanB,

Why don't You do a thorough investigation of the sources in the report.

Data from a few agencies and a report from an overseas filipino organization IS NOT Conclusive. Don't be so stupid just to read the conclusion...

You defend the conclusion because it fits You hopes very well, but it doesn't make it more true. There is no basis for the conclusion, and anyone who actually reads the description of the data must conclude this.

regards,

... in response to Here is a link to the Report!!!, posted by DanB on Jan 8, 2002

I posted a few days ago in this thread the exact quote:

Here is a direct quote from the report. Note that it says based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves. It is amazing how many times this report is skewed to support the position of the poster. Basically, there is NO factual data. PERIOD!!!!

"It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available."

... in response to Sheesh !, posted by curt on Jan 8, 2002

You don't pay much attention to anything.  The poster was DOJ.

I figure your a troll, so no more interest in replying from me.

... in response to Re: Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by curt on Jan 6, 2002

OK, It's my MISGUIDED OPINION that 20% of Phil/Am marriages end in divorce and 50% of Am/Am end in divorce. I guess I succumbed to all the propoganda I've read on this board, by Gary Clark, and by the DOJ report who'se weasel words say things like: (and I'm paraphrasing) while the statistics show a lower incidene of domestic violence, it is assumed that domestic abuse is higher among mail order brides because of the wives fears in reporting the incidents.

... in response to Re: Re: Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by SoCal Jeff on Jan 6, 2002

I am glad you now see the 20% as only your opinion as there is NO factual basis for that number.  Even so, you have distorted the actual reference to suit your own needs.  As to the domestic violence issue, I wish to provide a direct quote from the report:

"The Department of Justice does not distinguish foreign-born persons from U.S.-born persons in its crime statistics on domestic violence. "

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Paula Zahn has sold us out!, posted by curt on Jan 6, 2002

The figure comes from data from both the CFO and MOB agencies.  The CFO probably has a negative bias and the agencies probably have a positive bias.  The DOJ doesn't dispute the figure, and uses it in their report.

Jim

... in response to cbf, where you been hiding?, posted by Jimbo on Jan 6, 2002

nt

... in response to cbf, where you been hiding?, posted by Jimbo on Jan 6, 2002

"While no national figures exist on abuse of alien wives, there is every reason to believe that the incidence is higher in this population than for the nation as a whole."

... in response to And some more:, posted by curt on Jan 6, 2002

"every reason to believe" - obviously they have a serious prejudice toward a negative conclusion regarding MOB marriages.  There are no facts in this statement, why do you bother to post it?

Jim

... in response to Re: And some more:, posted by Jimbo on Jan 7, 2002

Yet earlier in this thread, SCJ paraphrased it as having statistics with lower abuse for alien wives.

... in response to cbf, where you been hiding?, posted by Jimbo on Jan 6, 2002

Here is a direct quote from the report.  Note that it says based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves.  It is amazing how many times this report is skewed to support the position of the poster.  Basically, there is NO factual data.  PERIOD!!!!

"It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available."

... in response to I have to repeat:, posted by curt on Jan 6, 2002

.