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I have been writing to a women who works in Shenzhen, China. I found her profile on the Cherryblossoms site. I am of course very cautious in this endeavor and are aware of the usual scams. She is a very attractive 32 year old. In her second letter to me she mentioned that she has never had a boyfriend and is a virgin wanting to save herself for her future husband. Now I did not coerce this from her and actually this is of little import to me. My concern is that in fact this raised a major red flag in my mind. Other than that statement our letters have been fine and cordial and we've written about 6 times already. I think the odds of finding an attractive 32yo "virginal" oriental women is the same as finding a similar AW in this country. Very unlikely. So now I think this women is probably a scammer but I will continue to write her and wait for the hints of economic help. Am I wrong in my assessment? Is it possible?

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

I may be in the extreme minority here, but I have no desire to marry a virgin.  Such a woman has no experience in a very important facet of human existance.  As such, there is no way of knowing what she enjoys, and what she doesn't.  And once you've married her, you're stuck with her opinions and mannerisms on the subject.

Another concern is that we, as humans, are inquisitive by nature, male and female.  The myth that women aren't as intruiged by sex is just that- a myth.  And since women get just as horny as men, who's to say your virgin wife won't want to enjoy other experiences once she's had you?  Can you honestly--honestly-- see your self just having had sex with one woman for all of your life?

Lastly, there's the real concern that older virigins have serious issues with sex and sexuality.  If all their life a woman has been brainwashed into thinking that sex is dirty, religiously hampered (bible thumper humper), and/or only for baby-making, then such a woman will be what I call a 'sex-washout'.  Sex-washouts are women who are reluctant to engage in oral sex, different positions, experimentation, or any of the other common sexual pleasures that are necessary to spice up a couple's love life. Sex- washouts are women who only want to do it one way, with all the lights out, and they want to get it over as soon as possible so she can go back to reading her favorite novel.  These women have no sexual desires because they've been taught to not have them.  There's nothing more aggitating then to have a girlfriend or wife who's a cold-fish when it comes to sex (can you say, time for an affair with the hot pinay at the gym?).

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a woman who's been stretched out by every tom, dick and harry she has encountered.  But you can definetly keep your virgins. Keep 'em.  Maybe that's why I'm more into the more sexually liberated latins???

... in response to Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Troy on Mar 14, 2004

that us Listers are looking for a Virgin?? Why are you so concerned about Virgins on both the Latin and Asian forum??? Maybe Your speaking of Yourself loool

... in response to Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Troy on Mar 14, 2004

Well, I didn't marry a virgin - she had an 8 year old daughter, though she claims it was an immaculate conception. I don't agree that people have to sort out their sexuality before being able to perform well. I've read all the posts about "trying her out" before marriage to make sure you're not hooked up with a dud, and I think that very concept is rediculous. Now, if you're a player looking for a lot sex from different women, that may be the way to go, but sex within the context of marriage is an entirely different matter, in my opinion.

In the case of marriage, making sure you marry a good sex partner is putting the cart before the horse. Great sex comes from complete committment and trust - things that only come from marriage. This is not to say there isn't great sex outside of marriage. Being single and traveling the world on an expense account from my early 20s to my mid 30s, I know all about having great sex with strange and exotic women, but in marriage, things are different. Pleasing your partner is what marriage is all about.

If anything great pre-marital sex gets in the way of making a decision about someone you may want to hook up with. The little head's thoughts cloud the big head's reasoning. So I guess what I'm saying is: a great marriage begets great sex, and the reverse is obviously not true - great sex does not beget a great marriage.

Just my, never to be hunmble, opinion.

- Jeff

... in response to Re: Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Jeff S on Mar 15, 2004

nt

... in response to Re: Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Jeff S on Mar 15, 2004

Well said

... in response to Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Troy on Mar 14, 2004

...but we do stash a copy of kamas*tra under the bed.  Ya know, just in case we land that cute American boy that we love so much.

Shows how much you know about Asian women.  You should go and talk to these men who are married to these Asian women. One comment that I always hear whenever I meet with Fil-am couples is "How do I turn her off?"

... in response to We may be virgins..., posted by Carr on Mar 15, 2004

Ah, and this is my point.  What happens if a man marries a virgin and, unlike the Asian women you refer to, she HATEs sex.  What's a married man to do?

... in response to Re: We may be virgins..., posted by Troy on Mar 15, 2004

if a woman is passionate without bonking her. I'm surprised that someone as experienced as you doesn't know that.

And just maybe being with a man who has unequivocally committed himself is a real turn-on for a woman. I'm surprised that someone as experienced as you doesn't know that.

... in response to Re: We may be virgins..., posted by Troy on Mar 15, 2004

From all accounts I have heard and others I have talked to, that will not be a problem. To use a rather inelegant old Marine Corps term, they don't call them LBFM's for nothing, you know. Finding an Asian woman, especially a Filipina who does not like sex is like finding a woman who despises chocolate, roses and jewelry. They do still make 'em, but they are darned few and far between. The problem is more likely to be with the masculine clumsiness than the feminine frigidity. If you are both virgins you have a lot to learn, so get busy with that "homework". Things will work themselves out. They usually do.

... in response to Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Troy on Mar 14, 2004

[This message has been edited by Ray]

That’s fine Troy that you aren’t looking for a virgin. Most of the guys here weren’t looking for a virgin either and that wasn’t one of their requirements in finding a mate. However, I think you have some serious misconceptions about sex and sexuality.

What makes you think that Latins are more sexually liberated than Asians? Have you ever been to Japan, Thailand, the Philippines? Just because a lady is more inclined to display her “wares” in public doesn’t mean that she will be any better in bed. Didn’t you know that most Latin women were probably raised as Catholics? Is THAT what makes them more sexually liberated than say, a Buddhist girl???

You seem to think that because a woman is religious, that automatically means that she has been brainwashed to think that sex is dirty. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Teaching that one should save sex for marriage is not the same as teaching that sex is “dirty”. You said “These women have no sexual desires because they've been taught to not have them”. What??? Taught by whom? I’ve never heard that before! I don’t think that someone can be “taught” not to have any sexual desires.

Also, the fact that a girl lost her virginity at an earlier age doesn’t mean that she has any more sexual desire than one who lost her virginity later in life. Believe me on that one!

I am certainly not claiming to be an expert on sex and sexuality, but I can assure you that from some of your comments, you are certainly no expert either :-)

Ray

... in response to Virgins are a bad idea , posted by Troy on Mar 14, 2004

I can testify that you are 180 degrees off- and rather pathetic.

You are claiming that I would be much better off if my wife had had sex with you before I did. Yup, that's pathetic.

Can you honestly--honestly-- see a sexually liberated latin just having sex with one man for all the rest of her life?

... in response to Despite your elaborate rationalizing ..., posted by HaroldC on Mar 14, 2004

There's a difference between an experienced woman and a wh*re.  

To answer your question---yes, I can.  After she has a had few experiences that have allowed her to fully understand her wants and desires, and, consequently, she is able express her wants and desires to her partner, I am fairly certain a liberated latina can stay monogomas.

Now, what is pathetic is the hypocrisy of men like yourself who demand virgins but are not virgins themselves.  So, its okay for you have had a few sex partners, but not for the woman...that's pathetic.

... in response to Re: Despite your elaborate rationalizing..., posted by Troy on Mar 15, 2004

you sound like a pervert i think you should go after latinos you 2-3-4 or an orgy can play burn out

... in response to Re: Despite your elaborate rationalizing..., posted by Troy on Mar 15, 2004

"hypocrisy of men like yourself who demand virgins"

You said "Virgins are a bad idea." I simply told you that every one of your speculations, in my experience, was completely wrong.

You seem to be approaching this on a very theoretical basis.
For example, you accept as given that a woman would "fully understand her wants and desires" "After she has a had few experiences". Yeah, sure. Maybe you should open a clinic.

And what's wrong with having those 'few experiences' with her husband, hmmm?

Your whole attitude just has that 'I read about it in a book, so I'm an expert' feel to it. You remind me of those arrogant young doctors who have just started to practice. I'm going to call you Dr. Troy.

... in response to Don't put words in my mouth., posted by HaroldC on Mar 15, 2004

And the hypocrisy continues.  I wonder how many men, when either dealing with AW, LW, or American Women, would hold off having sex before marriage.

... in response to Re: Don't put words in my mouth., posted by Troy on Mar 15, 2004

is tantamount to calling me a liar, since all you know about me is what I have said here. What's the point of continuing discussion with a liar?

The fact is that we held off having sex even AFTER marriage.

I understand why you must assume the character of others is even more flawed than your own- because you are pathetic.

And, your understanding of human sexuality is juvenile, Dr. Troy.

... in response to Re: Don't put words in my mouth., posted by Troy on Mar 15, 2004

Having extensive experience before I married a virgin, I can tell you that if she doesn't bring it up, don't sweat it. It makes no difference except to her. If she feels better for being a virgin when she marries, good. Praise her, it will make her feel better. If she was not a virgin, good. Don't bring up the subject. If she is virginal, once the initial discomfort is over for her it will cease to be an issue in your marriage. I can truly say that my Filipina was, even if inexperienced, enthusiastic right from the start. She still is today, nearly a quarter century later.

Don't let a little thing like a maidenhead, or the lack of one, become a problem in your marriage.

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

Well I sure don't have any personal experience about older Asian virgins, but Honey's oldest sister didn't marry until she was 30 and Honey says she was a virgin.
Honey has a couple of aunts who are unmarried and in their 40s and she claims they are also virgins. They were intent on their careers and never got around to marrying, had standards too high for the guys who were interested. I think it as because they were highly educated and a little on the plain side, myself. Many men were less attracted to them and afraid of their education and status. They could have been very attractive but they dress like a 1950's high school librarian and they act like one, too. A little on the strict side.

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

out of the blue?

I agree her being a virgin is not at all remarkable.

... in response to Yeah, but, how about that SHE brought it..., posted by HaroldC on Mar 13, 2004

I'm with you, Harold.
It does seem like mentioning this in the second letter is odd. If she had said, in an off hand manner, "....I'm saving myself for marriage.", that would seem proper and appropriate.
She seems eager to state her virginity.
A yellow flag, perhaps.

... in response to Re: Yeah, but, how about that SHE brough..., posted by William on Mar 14, 2004

is an English euphemism we use in polite company.  Perhaps her English is not so fluent that she knows that particular phrase.  If you are not conversely fluent in her culture also, you don't know if she's being rude, overly bold, or if she is expected to convey this information somehow to a prospective suitor to let you know she is a serious quality catch by her standards.  A yellow flag at most.  Not a red flag (unless you're looking for someone with lots of sheet experience).

... in response to Re: Yeah, but, how about that SHE brough..., posted by William on Mar 14, 2004

[This message has been edited by don2222]

Most Filipina virgins, in my experience, will proudly let you know that they are still a virgin.  On the occaisions that I have asked the question, the virgins sit up straight, and say "Yes!!, I am still a virgin!" while the non-virgins will hang their heads  and mumble their answer. I am guessing that she  just wants to make sure that he knows she is a "good girl" and that she is saving herself for her future husband.
Filipino men, in general, will try to bed as many women as possible before marriage, but then demand to marry only a virgin.

IMHO only,

Don

... in response to Re: Yeah, but, how about that SHE brough..., posted by William on Mar 14, 2004

to most Asians in their native countries. Many of the Asian males won't marry a non virgin. I see no Flags, she got the right to feel proud of herself for being a Virgin at such an older age.

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

You bet. Don't be shocked that many Foreigner Oriental Women are older Virgins.

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

About 4 years ago when I first started getting involved in writting Filipinas I met a guy who just married a Filipina he been writting for 4 years.  This girl lived in Hong Kong as a maid (with a nursing degree mind ya) was drop dead gorgeous - seriously put "Miss America" to shame!  She was 36 y.o. when they finally got married and she was still a virgin!  I was in shock and most everyone I told here in the good ole' USA didn't believe me.  It was a major factor in my deciding to continue looking overseas for a wife.
You may say that it isn't a big deal to you but it says tons about the girl and the marriage you will have and the morallity she will raise your children with.  Sounds to me like you have a winner.

Bear, Honey and Lil' Bear

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

n/t

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

8-D

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

I'll go along with the group, too - Yes, your assessment is wrong. There are plenty of virginal girls in their 20s, 30s, and even 40s in Asia. I can say with confidence, that Asia is NOTHING like the USA. Sex isn't glorified and pasted all over everything. Sure there are "bad" girls there, but unlike here, where bad girls are considered the ideal, they're considered bad - as in not good - looked down on by society, bringing shame to themselves and their families. Ask some of the guys who spend lots of time over there how rough single mothers have it. They have little hope of ever landing a decent local man. Good girls don't do those things. Even in Thailand, the sex capitol of Asia, maybe the world, there are plenty of sweet, innocent ladies who are saving themselves for marriage, knowing if they don't their lives will be filled with shame and embarrassment. Here, on the other hand, it's a kind of badge of honor among young women to have had at least one abortion. If you're planning to get involved in Asian cultures, be very slow to compare them to modern America.

Just my rarely humble opinion, your mileage may vary.

- Jeff

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

Ken B

I just returned from China from a 2 week visit and I just got engaged after meeting my girl for the first time.  We have communicated with each other very seriously for 6 months now almost daily.

Based on my recent experience in China from what I observed  I do think it is a very strong possibity that she is a virgin at 32 still.  Chinese values and mores are very different than western values.   Mainland Chinese values are still very traditional.  Don't be surprised if she lives with her parents still either.  However Shenzen is a border city to Hong Kong which is more Western in style and maybe values.  Chinese women are not nieve either however.  If they are playing the field then they most likely are not ashamed of it either.  I would give her the benefit of the doubt --  She probably wouldn't bother to tell you this information about her virginity status unless it was very important to her.

Unless this virginity designation is absolutely crucial for your acceptance of her I would not worry about this.  It is okay to be cautious when looking for friendship but I don't think it is good to be so pessimistic from the onset either.
Just write and talk with her steadily. see how you two communicate together.  Take it easy  -- if she is a  scammer those traits will show them selves in due time as you are getting to know her.  Trust  your intuition

Windmill Boy

... in response to Question to the group, posted by KenB on Mar 12, 2004

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