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Hi All

There was a thread a while back that mentioned retiring and buying property in the Philippines. Lately I have been reading a lot in the newspapers here about forged and doctored land deeds.  A person apparently could try to buy land here, and then later discover that his deed is worthless.  The phony deeds are the real thing being sold by government employees to con artists.
Also, there are very few laws here regarding zoning.  A person could buy a piece of property, and then the next day discover someone starting a pig farm or karaoke bar next door.
For example, I live in a fairly exclusive neighborhood in the Philippines. There are no jeepneys or tricycles allowed in the entire subdivision. Only taxis and bicycles are allowed. BUT, most of my neighbors have roosters, and those things crow all day and night.
I have one neighbor with pigs, and another neighbor that is a cop that likes to get drunk and fire his gun all night.
My point is this, this isn't America, the cops will do absolutely nothing if you ever complain about anything, and there are no zoning laws that allow you to live in peace and quiet.
My rent is only $120 a month, and I have no desire to buy land here, not knowing who or what will happen in the future.

My opinions only,

Don

... in response to Buying property in the Phils., posted by don2222 on Dec 5, 2003

Hi Don, You didn’t say where you were renting.  Please take some time and visit Panglao.   Zoning was enforced, didn't see or hear many roosters.   Boracay didn’t have roosters either don’t know why. Lots of foreigners controlled land there.  Australians, English, German, Belgiams, Koreans and Japanese.  The Chinese have figured out how to own land through setting up corporations.   Anyway what are the Philippines without roosters?   Jesus said by the time the cock crows three times you will turn against me or something like that, they are Roman Catholics and roosters are part of the tradition.  Panglao and Boracay have a lot of foreigners controlling land there.   Nice roads, organized houses that look well planed.   Talked to the police chief and yes corruption is part of the game, remember they copied us quiet well.   But the locals foreigners put up money to have a police station in the middle of their community.  That solved most of their problems.   There are lots of ways to skin a cat, just use the laws to benefit you.   I wouldn’t think of buying land without an attorney here in the US.   The foreigners who purchased land in Panglao went to the city hall where the records are kept and seen if the land was really for sale or sometimes in dispute.   You have to have access to the whole history of the land before thinking of buying.  Gotta do the homework and let the wife own the land and she leases it to you for 90 years.  That way she can’t kick you out and live with her younger boyfriend LOL.    I think the Japanese and the Chinese have found the secret, they own less than 50%  of the business or land if they  incorporate they can own part of the corporation so they have total control.   Lots of people own land there and are not ripped off.    But you’re right in many ways what you said and I would buy land if it would help my wife or a family member.  If my wife owns the land and she dies I can inherit her land.   You know Don if I own land here in the US and someone sues me and gets a judgment against me I can lose it all over night.   So we use similar tricks to guard against that by not having land in our name here in the US and still own it.  
My point is this, this isn't America, the cops will do absolutely nothing if you ever complain about anything, and there are no zoning laws that allow you to live in peace and quiet.  
True but if the cop was a family member or you were a high official in the Govt. or a lowly American who can grease some palms things would get done.  
My Korean Tae Kwon Do instructor was a police detective in Korea, same problems there.   He would say “Peter DON’T COMPLAIN”  Now the foreigners in Boracay were renting for $600 per month and up.   They didn’t have your complaints and problems.   So maybe you’re to cheap to stay in a nicer place?   You get what you pay for.   The rich don’t have those problems.   My wife’s Aunt lives in a subdivision in Cebu and she has jeepneeys in her yard and the drivers sleep in the back with the pigs.   She has goats that are always running away and roosters that will crow at midnight.   She thinks she is in an upscale subdivision and the property there is expensive.   So Don you are renting, pack your backs and move.   When in Palawan northern part near the beaches the roads were so impassable by cars or jeepneeys but we went with the motorcycle and found nice quiet places and resorts.   No roosters, no pigs so ya gota look around.   With so many islands there you’re bound to find one you like.

Just my $0.5cents

... in response to Buying property in the Phils., posted by don2222 on Dec 5, 2003

adsf

... in response to Buying property in the Phils., posted by don2222 on Dec 5, 2003

Hey Don,
Maybe you should move to AC with the rest of the Kano's.LOL
Live in peace and quite in the Philippines? ROTFLMAO!!!
I don't think I would ever buy land in the PI.(beach front land maybe) Renting is the way to go because if you get tired of your surroundings it's easy to pack up and move.
I'm tring to figure out why you are living in the big ugly city? O well to each his own...

Hum

... in response to Re: Buying property in the Phils., posted by Humabdos on Dec 5, 2003

You’re right Hum, “peace and quiet” aren’t in the dictionary over there. And Don is correct also, it doesn’t do any good to complain to the police because they’ll just laugh at you. When they opened a very load all-night karaoke joint across the street from my wife’s place, I asked why none of the neighbors complained. She said you would have to hire an attorney and sue them in court and it would take years and cost a fortune, so it’s just easier to close the windows at night, no matter how hot it is.

I did “almost” find complete peace & quiet when I was staying with my wife’s folks in the province. They have a beach-front home on an island with no electricity, no radios, no TV, no computers, no roads, no jeepneys, no tricycles, no karaoke, no discos, etc… Other than the sound of waves lapping on the beach at night, or the faint hum of a pumpboat in the distance, it was truly restful, peaceful and quiet. EXCEPT FOR THAT DAMN ROOSTER THAT WOKE ME UP EVERY MORNING AT 4:33 A.M.!!! However, I did eat that little prick for lunch on my last day and slept very well that night (LOL!).

There is an interesting article in the Civil Code of the Philippines that ‘sort of’ guarantees your peace. I found some of the other provisions of the article more interesting though, especially items 2 & 3. I always wondered if you would have a case by bringing someone to court over these. It might be worth the cost of an attorney just to find out (LOL). I thought some of this stuff was so embedded in the culture that it was almost funny to find out that it was against the law :-)

Art. 26. Every person shall respect the dignity, personality, privacy and peace of mind of his neighbors and other persons. The following and similar acts, though they may not constitute a criminal offense, shall produce a cause of action for damages, prevention and other relief:
(1) Prying into the privacy of another's residence:
(2) Meddling with or disturbing the private life or family relations of another;
(3) Intriguing to cause another to be alienated from his friends;
(4) Vexing or humiliating another on account of his religious beliefs, lowly station in life, place of birth, physical defect, or other personal condition.

Ray

... in response to Well, almost..., posted by Ray on Dec 5, 2003

Ray, you ate a rooster for lunch?  You must be a tough old goat LOL  It takes half a morning to pluck the dam thing.   We were in Vietman and come on a village deserted by Cong.   There were a few roosters left.   We were so hungry and roasted some, it was like eating rubber.   Better than chewing gum.  I never wondered again why no one eats roosters.  Oh and we were not allowed to carry weapons not military issued.  Ray? how did you catch da rooster?  It took 3 of us 15 minutes.  So now we know you're tough and quick.  
  Art 26 key word is "prevention", and since it is a non confrontive society most would rather hear the roosters all night than complain.  
Art 26 1 thru 6 is somthing women do by nature no attorney would take it to court coz his wife would kill him LOL.

... in response to Re: Well, almost..., posted by Peter Lee on Dec 6, 2003

Come on now Peter. You don’t have to be “tough” to eat a rooster, just hungry (LOL). So it was like eating rubber? I guess it depends on the age of the rooster. You must have gotten a hold of some ancient old rooster that had been eating sh#@ all of it’s life :-)

Haven’t you ever seen a pro catch a rooster? Filipinos don’t spend half the morning running around in the hot sun trying to catch a stupid rooster with their bare hands. They snare them by the feet. This is the way I’ve seen it done when I was living in the PI: They would use a long piece of mono-filament fishing line and lay out a loop on the ground with a slip knot in it. You either cover the line with dirt or place a few pebbles around the circle to keep it in place. Put some rice grains in the center of the loop and wait for the rooster to step into the trap. A quick pull on the line will snare the little booger’s feet and you gently reel him in (and ring his friggin’ neck!).

I’ve never plucked a chicken myself but some of the Filipinos I’ve watched made it look pretty simple, if not a little messy. Apparently the secret is to first dip the dead bird briefly into a pot of boiling water, which apparently makes it easier to pull out the feathers (?).

We barbecued the rooster and a couple of other chickens, along with some fresh-caught fish on her uncle’s bamboo “floating cottage” anchored out in the bay. It tasted pretty good with lots of Tanduay 12-year-old rum to wash it down. We had about 18 people on the “floating picnic”. Great fun!

Ray

... in response to Rooster Eating, posted by Ray on Dec 7, 2003


Hi Ray,

Question,
I read on the ASAWA site one of the guys noted?
"Make sure your girl has an official copy of her baptismal record".
I didn't think you needed that and we don't have one yet.  Will we need it?  And for whom and when?

The rooster trap you described was part of jungle training and survival.   Instead of one loop you use several loops.  It was meant for wild birds, I have used it a few times with 6 or more fishing line loops attached to a wire that is circular.  We didn't have to cover the loops the birds stepped on them anyway.  It doesn’t always work but seems to work better if you're real hungry LOL.  If you’re lucky you can catch a few birds at a time.  Vietnamese feed the roosters dried fish so the are not only tough but taste like fish balad rooster LOL.  Now if I could find a way to get 12 year old rum in the Jungle I would have stayed longer LOL.
Floating picnic sounds like fun, but 18 people?  Hope they could all swim.  
In some countries dipping a chicken into water is chicken soup LOL.  Yes boiling water will free up the roots of those feathers but hard to pluck when wet.  

... in response to Re: Rooster Eating, posted by Peter Lee on Dec 8, 2003

[This message has been edited by Ray]

Peter,

A baptismal certificate is occasionally requested at the visa interview, usually if there is any question of date of birth or parentage. The baptismal cert is good secondary evidence, especially if the birth cert presented was “late-registered”. Some of those gals will assume a new identity, change their birth date, etc. to make themselves appear older or single when they are really married. Usually, they will be baptized within a few months of birth, so the birth dates are more reliable than those on “late-registered” documents. If her birth was properly registered within a month or so of her birth, then she probably will not be asked for a baptismal cert, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have a fresh one with her just in case. Once in a while they will also ask for photos of the baptismal registry book in the church.

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Rooster Eating, posted by Ray on Dec 8, 2003

Thanks again for clearing that up.   It seems it is up to the agent who handles the interview.  I would guess a young 20 year old has less chance of bagage like  previvious marrage and kids.   I checked her NSO birth and marriege certificates for mistakes in dates and names and all check out.   I will ask my wife to see if she can get a copy of the baptismal record.  She doesn't live to far from her birthplace.  Like you said it can't hurt.  

My I-129 receipt came back on Oct 28th that is when I considered the clock to start ticking.  I am wondering how long it should take for the approval notice from Missouri?  ASAWA samples show 4.5 to 9 months.  Wish I had a crystal ball LOL.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Rooster Eating, posted by Peter Lee on Dec 8, 2003

I think Missouri is running about 3-4 months for the K-3. Just to be safe, you better kick out the girlfriends and start cleaning the place up now :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Rooster Eating, posted by Ray on Dec 8, 2003

Question: I noticed when looking at ASAWA site that some K3's were asked for certificates of no marriage record or CENOMAR. Will my wife need this? I thought it was for the K1 or the single women.

About kicking the gf out, well I got a guy roommate who just got divorced living in the house sharing expenses and paying rent. I would like to leave him there as long as possible I need the money. He wants to stay after my wife gets here. He has half of the house and his own bathroom but we share the kitchen. The roomy works making money with a sales company working on the computer all day in the house. If I ask my wife I know I'll get the "it's up to you!" I was going to try to see how it would work out but now I am not so sure. In one way it could be good she would never be alone. On the other there will not be a lot of privacy. The roomy will move out sooner or later to buy his own house. One option was to wait till he got to that point and not kick him out prematurely. The situation helps him right now and me as well. I figure he would stay another 8 months if I let him.
If all goes well as we predicted it may not be necessary to visit her in February. When she has her visa she could come on her own when I send her the money. I wonder how much time she has to come over once the visa is stamped. I could wait and go there for her interview and fly back with her. Penny wise and dollar foolish may apply here. I could pinch the budget and do the right thing. What would you recommend? Not knowing how long it would take I planned on visiting her in late February 04 if I thought it would take 8 or 9 months.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rooster Eating, posted by Peter Lee on Dec 9, 2003

Peter,

How much time she has to come over once the visa is stamped? The visa is good for 6 months. If you plan to fly over for her interview and then fly back with her, you will have to be flexible. It sometimes takes 1-2 months or more after the interview to get the visa and some guys have even had luck talking the consular officer into releasing the visa the same day as the interview. Better get tickets with open return dates if possible.

Should you let your room mate stay after your wife arrives? I won’t even touch that one. Just make sure that your wife feels that she is in charge of the home. If she wants to redecorate and move all the furniture around, DON’T complain out loud because that’s just a part of being married (LOL!)

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rooster Eating, posted by Ray on Dec 11, 2003

Thanks Ray, It doesn't sound practical to go there for the interview. If it was going to be a long wait till she gets here I could plan a visit that would do the most good.   In that way if I have to go back without her it would be ok.   Right now I planed to go in late March 04.   I am sure my approval will be delayed coz of the Christmas holidays.  
With 6 months on her passport they give us plenty of time to make plans.  Right now I am thinking of saving money and have her fly here by herself when the time comes.    
Well Ray it still looks like a long wait and each month I keep my roomy I get extra rent money.  What I seen on ASAWA approval was averaging 4.5 months from Misouri.  That would put my approval mid March 04.  Then more waiting for the medical and interview and again possible visa waiting.  This sounds like it could streach out till June 04.  I think my roomy will stay for a while.   As far as the furnature is concerned I have none, just the bedroom bed and a desk.  I wanted to get furnature with her when she gets here.  Roomy has the house to himself right now coz I am living in my office.  I have a shower washer and dryer kitchen and broadband no need to go home.
I would gladly let her be in charge of the house.  I can't wait LOL.

... in response to Re: Buying property in the Phils., posted by Humabdos on Dec 5, 2003

[This message has been edited by don2222]

Hi Hum,
 Ouch !  AC ??  I could never live there ! I don't drink, and that eliminates 50% of what a person can do in AC.
You are right, it is very difficult to find peace and quiet here.  My neighborhood is actually much quieter than most here,  in most other places in the Phils i have to sleep with ear plugs in to block out the constant noise.
There is no guarantee that my place will stay quiet, and you are right, renting is great, If I need to I can just find a different place when my contract is up.
You can rent a very nice large house in most places of the Phils for about $200.  I know of one  member of this board that is renting a 3 bedroom furnished house on the beach for $190 a month. Smaller houses go for as little as $100 a month. I don't see the point in buying when renting is so cheap.

Don

... in response to Re: Re: Buying property in the Phils., posted by don2222 on Dec 5, 2003

When we were kids in Australia we played manopoly.   Panglao property has tripled in 7 years renting would take the fun out of the game.  Tourism is down now and a good time to buy.   You can buy a place for family members and meantime live there for free.  I found that ferries were cheaper than hotel rooms and each morning you would wake up to a different island LOL.  No roosters on the ferries if you go delux [second floor]  I only found 2 places I would want to stay.  Panglao and Boracay and both were expensive to rent on the beach.  All depends on what you want.   I kinda liked the roosters and got used to it.

... in response to Re: Re: Buying property in the Phils., posted by don2222 on Dec 5, 2003

There are other very valid reasons for renting, or rather leasing, over buying here. Here's one.

Reason #1. The foriegner has more rights in a lease than they would buying.

Crazy, you say? Foriegners cannot "own" land here. If they choose to buy, they must put it in someone elses name.  Most choose to put it in their wife's name, which in many cases causes the wife's family to 'poison' their relationship. Why? Because if their relationship can be destroyed, it is a simple proceedure to get the foreigner deported, then the wife inherits the land. Hence, the family gains control. The foriegner has absolutely no recourse.

A foriegner CAN own a dwelling, however, and they can lease land for up to 50 years. With this method you can build your house to suit. Generally you can do anything on a leased property that you could buying and putting in someone else's name. But the real issue is the FOREIGNER is the legal controller of the land and dwelling.

Long term leases can be very cheap, sometimes as low as $100 a year. I have recently leased a new beach front nipa hut near Siaton, Negros Oriental. Very nice and peaceful place. Very remote. Cost is $500 a year, and the owner does the maintenance.  The owner is Austrailian, been there doing this for years. The real kicker  is NO ROOSTERS!!!!

Larry.

... in response to I will expound a little., posted by shadow on Dec 5, 2003

Is that in the lease Larry? ROFL!

Just one technical point: foreigners CAN own land in the Philippines. You can be a minority owner with a majority Filipino ownership. You can also own land as the sole owner under one condition: you can inherit it.

If a foreigner wants to purchase and own a piece of land, he can:

1. Marry a Filipina

2. Have her execute a will where he is the sole heir

3. Purchase the land in her name

4. Have her "salvaged"

5. Take over ownership of the land

Disclaimer: For those out there with no sense of humor, I am not advocating uxoricide and I didn't mean to give anyone any evil ideas :-)

I agree that the long-term leases are usually the best option to protect yourself from a legal standpoint. But there is certainly nothing wrong with putting the property ownership in your wife's name if you trust her and don't ever do anything to make her mad :-)

Also, a Filipino attorney should be able to draw up a contract where you own a 49% share and your wife owns 51%, with specific terms limiting the sale or transfer of the property. But like you said, you are still the foreigner and definitely at a disadvantage.

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Buying property in the Phils., posted by don2222 on Dec 5, 2003

Yea I wouldn't live in AC City ether Don. I was just giving you a hard time for complaining about the Chickens and pigs around you! ROTFLMAO Come on your in the Philippines dude! I have a feeling your a city boy rather than a nature freak like me. Have you been up to Malapascua Island yet? You will find lots of peace and quite up there except for the Chickens that is lol. Also have you been to Siquijor? Very quite place. Dave at the Coral Cay is a great host when he's there.

If it makes you feel any better I'm here in Oregon working outside in the wind and rain, it's in the 40's today :-(

Hum