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I've been rambling and a bit off subject for awhile, but it all ties in somewhat. It all comes back to respect, and who earns it, and who doesn't.
Many filipinos will look you right in the eye and lie to you when there is absolutely no reason to do so. They will tell you yes, when they mean no. They will point you somewhere full knowing what you seek isn't there. (But they don't want to appear unhelpful. How helpful do they think it is to be sent on a wild goosechase?)  They will tell you 2 oclock, when they have absolutely no intention of being there before 3:30. I had a girl at an airline (Cebu Pacific) help desk tell me a shuttle would get me to the international airport from the domestic airport in time to catch a certain flight.  The shuttle left at 9:00, the cutoff for flight checkin was 9:05. There is NO WAY it would get me there in time, and she knew it, yet she assured me it would, causing me to spend an extra 24 hours in Manila, + another $100 I didn't have for rebooking of the flight. How "helpful" was this kind of help? At a help desk? They'll remember me for some time to come! :)
In the future, I'll be searching for an older more mature girl. No more giggling little golddiggers for me. I'm sure there are 24 YO's out there that are much more mature and different than the ones I have met, but I'll not be interogating them. :)
In closing, I've been knocked down in the past, and kicked when I was down. When I got up I was always more determined than ever. The same holds true here. I'm not done yet. I'll be back! At present, I am completely and totally financially ruined, and must start over with nothing except the dog and my determination. It may take a few months, a few years, or a lifetime, but mark my words, I'll be back!   Farewell, Friends! (And otherwise:))  Larry.

P.S. If anyone's going to the PI for a few weeks and wants to use my cell phone, let me know. All I ask is you pay postage, replace used card time, and return it promptly. Be forewarned you'll probably get 10 msgs a day from Beth, though!   :)
shadow@the-philippineislands.com

... in response to Summary, part 3, posted by shadow on Mar 29, 2001

It is a good thing that Americans don't lie, ask Bill Clinton.

... in response to Summary, part 3, posted by shadow on Mar 29, 2001

Accept the fact that not all Filipinos speak and understand English like you do.

How are you sure that those who you had dealings with lied to you?  Did you make room to the fact that they didn't understand your needs?  And if you have studied our culture, you missed the part where it says that Asians are apt to save face and will do anything to not appear that they don't know what your talking about.  When I got here and went to my first ever grocery shopping, the guy at the check out counter asked me something.  Since I didn't understand him and his accent (yeah, to us you guys have accents), I said yes.  Then he spoke slowly, 'Yes what? Paper or plastic?'

Another part that you missed is Filipino time, which is an hour behind the appointment time.  This stems from the Spanish colonization where it was fashionable to be late. Have you been to Hawaii? If you have, then you are definitely aware of Hawaiian time.  Same goes with the PI.

What I find really amazing and amusing is that some of you expect the immigrants to assimilate into your culture but in the same breath, when you are in their country you expect things to go the American way.  Let's put it this way, would you let your guests tell you how to run your household?  When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Lastly, I think that going to the PI after what happened to you Larry, was a bad decision on your part.  You took off your blinders but replaced them with another that is more clouded.  With that mindset of yours, you actually set our women to fail.  It is very unfortunate.  You need to let the healing process begin.

Anyway, I wish you well in the future.

... in response to Not lying but maybe language barrier?, posted by Carrisse on Mar 29, 2001

The Latin Americans are a whole day behind. If they traded places with Asians...we would all be on the same time. ;o))

Dave H.

... in response to Not lying but maybe language barrier?, posted by Carrisse on Mar 29, 2001

for your input.
No, I did not miss these things.

I didn't miss the fact that due to what I chalked up as a possible language barrier issue, Myrna managed to completely, totally, and effectively destroy my life with lies.

I didn't miss the fact that for Nanette a BC costs P5000, even when questioned further afterwards.

I didn't miss the fact that a nice filipina at a help desk insisted that a shuttle bus would arrive at a different airport before it actually took off from it's original starting point.

I didn't miss the fact that a nice filipino male sent me 30 miles in the wrong direction up a rutted, muddy road rather than lose face and admit he didn't know where Daan Bantayan was.

I didn't miss the fact that I am supposed to sit around waiting for hours for a filipina to show up, but if I am late by 10 minutes this same filipina will be very angry and probably leave.

I didn't miss the fact that if I say "maybe", "should be" or "I'll try", that a filipina will take this as "I promise", but that if that same filipina says "I promise" what she really means is "maybe", or "probably not".

Lastly, I think that going to the PI in the first place was a horrible decision on my part. I took my open, trusting, mind to a place where it was destroyed by lies, greed, and deception.

Anyway, I wonder where I got that mindset.

... in response to Thanx, Carrisse..., posted by shadow on Mar 29, 2001

You created the two extreme mindset.  The first time you went to the PI, your expectations were so high and your blinders were on.

Then one woman managed to destroy everything that you believed about Pinays.  So, you went to the other extreme and have put on a different set of blinders.

Why did you go to the PI after the break-up of your relationship?  Are you trying to prove/disprove something or trying to find answers to the questions troubling you?  Because just by reading your summary, anyone can tell that you have lost all respect for the Filipino women and went there with your professional tactics to prove that you are right--we are all gold-diggers and green card sharks.  Choly, Beth and the others proved you right, didn't they?

Then, you now lost all respect for the entire people of PI because we could not take care of ourselves and our poor.

Please Larry, get help.  Let the healing process begin.  And let it start within you by forgiving Myrna.

... in response to From one extreme to the other, posted by Carrisse on Mar 29, 2001

if you would have bothered to read between the lines, you would have realized it wasn't the Myrna deal that led to my change of heart, but rather the Nanette deal immediately thereafter that made me start to wonder about what the numbers really were, and treat your lovely counrtrywomen so horribly. All of my life I have claimed to be non-prejudicial, but I can no longer make that claim. Were I filipino, I would be ashamed of my heritage. I have spent most of today deleting everything filipino from my computer, 600+ pics, info, everything. I wish I could delete it from my own memory as easily. After tommorrow, I will no longer be a participant on the boards. Never again will I look at a person of philippine descent in the same light. I did, if you remember, find one that I do believe was honest and not out for gold. However, that friendship was destroyed by another of your fellow countrywoman's jealousy and crab mentality. And THAT, Carrisse, was the straw that broke the camels back! So try to turn it back on me all you like, for I found the answers for myself, and care not what you think or believe.  I'll hazard a guess here. You're from one of those upper class families that look down their noses at everyone else? That's what rubbed your craw, isn't it? My comment about how the rich treat the poor? I'll get help, Carrisse, maybe you should too. My help will begin tommorrow, with the completion of my obliteration of this whole filipina obsession. Larry.

P.S. I didn't lose respect because you could not take care of your poor, but I did lose much respect because you WOULD not take care of your poor. Big difference. Marcos lives on!

... in response to actually..., posted by shadow on Mar 29, 2001

Shadow
After reading all your posts it sounds to me like you where looking for love in all the wrong places,no decent girl would go out with you unless you had a chaparone unless she was a older women
tneal

... in response to actually..., posted by shadow on Mar 29, 2001

Larry,

Even though I have never posted on Mag-Anak, I have read the forum many times. There was one guy that always stood out. Shadow was always a guy that cared about others and took the time to help. What impressed me most about him, was that he was still helpful and objective, even when terrible things were happening in his own life.

I will miss the "old" Shadow. It seems that there is a "new" Shadow and I was wrong about him. He did make some good points, but I won't miss him when he is gone. Hopefully he won't come back as a troll. The "new" Shadow appears to have gone to the Philippines in an effort to prove to himself, that all Filipinos are evil. He has done a very good job of it. To bad he had to waste all of that money to prove a theory, that he had already decided was true. What the "new" Shadow needed was time to heal and regroup. I have never been screwed over by a Filipina, but AWs and Latinas have done a pretty good job of it. You know what, I only have myself to blame. I didn't use my better judgment, even when the obvious was hitting me right between the eyes like a 2X4. Don't trust everyone on their word. It should take time to trust someone. Unfortunately, that is the way the whole world is today.

I do admire the way the "new" Shadow gave to the poor. But you know what? That was really the "old" Shadow coming to the surface. I will miss the "old" Shadow! Now there was a  man to look up to and admire. A man...much better than me. A man that I hope shows up here one day, with a story that has a happy ending. A man that I would like to believe...still exists.

I wish you both well and hope for the best,

Love and mercy,

Dave H.

... in response to Goodbye Shadow, posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

I have been where Larry is too in someways but I never went to the Philippines looking for love I went for adventure and I found it. I know too many good filipinas to give up hope. Humabdos

... in response to Re: Dang Dave that brought a tear to my ..., posted by humabdos on Mar 29, 2001

us divers are like that I guess.

... in response to Huma I didn't know you were such a sensi..., posted by Jim H on Mar 30, 2001

We had better call the expert...Kevin, to help us off-gas (decompress). ;o))

Dave H.

... in response to Nitrogen Narcosis?, posted by Dave H on Mar 30, 2001

we desperately need you to intervene to the scene.  My friends Dave H. and Humabdos are in trouble with nitrogen narcosis.  They mistakenly summoned me.  I may be flatulent, but I have nothing to do with administering treatment to others when flatulence can become a problem.  Please help them.

- Kevin

... in response to Dr. Methane  . . ., posted by kevin on Mar 30, 2001

I didn't know you need to take them orally? lol they are stuck in the wall now! scared my dog to death! lol

... in response to Goodbye Shadow, posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

Dave,

Touchingly on the button.  I try not to act too religious, but Shadow needs our prayers from us Kanos and Pinays alike.  Personally, I hate to see a man, practically a lost soul, is so much dire despair.

The way I feel about this.  The golddiggers could give a rat's ass.  They probably hate people like him because he's such a tough cookie.  But there is a shread that remains in his heart that if he were to meet the right woman someday, his heart would melt.  I mean it when I say that his heart would melt.  

Shadow, please don't give up.  Like me, after my divorce, you may have to see a psychiatrist.  My psychiatrist once told me that I have a love-hate relationship when it comes to dealing with Filipinos.  What it really boils down to is negative, traumatic impacted inflicted by the opposite sex, and from a different culture.  Yet our hearts yearn for a loving relationship with one special woman from that particular culture.  We both have to grapple with, to varying degrees, that 1) we have been stung hard be members of the opposite sex that we loved, and 2) that the women we loved and gave our hearts to were from one particular group and took our affections as a weakness to be used to hurt us.

Shadow, don't give up.  I think you've even got some Pinays on your side who will help to guide you in the right direction in finding a sincere woman, after reading your posts on Mag-Anak.

May God be watching over you,

Kevin

... in response to Goodbye Shadow, posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

I tend to agree with you Dave...But I understand some of what the Larry is dealing with, I think it is more of an evolvement and reactionary perception on his part. It's hard to go back once you have developed a certain mindset, still for an exceptionally good heart and soul like his, it is not impossible to recovery from. The PI has is indeed a mish mash of inconsistancies and changing that it is mind boggeling to even the best cultural anthropologists. Larry is really quite mild in his assesment given is experience with it. I too for one was once an extremely negitive soul toward certain cultures, I could tear any scenerio, person, place down and amputate a culture to pieces, but it was all in reference to what I had known or was familiar with before..and that was the western values, ideals, etc and my prescribed conditioning and definitions of how things should work. Anyway, PI is a whole different ballgame. I don't know just time, hard work and a new love may be the antidotes. The PI and it's people is an intense place to try and sit on any rigid set of definitions for very long without saying Opps wrong about that assesment. It's Dynamic and changing, has been and always will be..and in someways we in the west are intrinsically linked to it's destiny..

... in response to Shadows change..., posted by Zebson on Mar 29, 2001

Hi Zebson,

Larry was really crapped on. But, it seems that he went back for more. I would have taken time to reflect (recover)first.

Whenever I  get angry with my ex or Latins in general, I remember how much I love my sons. Half of her, which makes them half Latin.

Dave H.

... in response to Goodbye Shadow, posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

I'll just add:

"right between the eyes like a 2X4" - It's true, but unfortunate, that most of us will try real hard not to see the red flags when we are convinced we may have found the right one.  You can see it in the stories over and over again.

Luck plays a part in this quest, as you've said before.

Good luck to you shadow.  Thanks for your story.  I'm sure it has helped others, as I believe it is an open and honest description of one man's long ordeal in the MOB experience.

Jim

... in response to actually..., posted by shadow on Mar 29, 2001

I came from a poor family and I worked myself through college.  I'm also proud of the fact that I'm not a gold digger or a green card shark.

Anyway, you've just proved my point.  You are in a quest to prove that all Filipinos -- men and women are bad and we should be ashamed of our heritage.

Well, I'm not.  There are many Myrnas and Nanettes in the PIs.  But there are many more Vilmas, Mays, Vivians, Tess, Nicoles, Migs--I could go on and on.  It is really unfair that you decided to lump all of us with Myrna and Nanette.

... in response to No, you're wrong, posted by Carrisse on Mar 29, 2001

go on and on...

Carrisse,

Don't forget my fiancee Marife and her sister Cheryl. I am proud to be a part of their family. Two humble women from a poor family. They don't need to go looking for gold. Their hearts are full of it.

Dave H.

... in response to Please do..., posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

..the lovely and gracious Sally, even though she DOES tampo :o)

Jim

... in response to Hey! I've got to add..., posted by Jimbo on Mar 29, 2001

...sorry Sally. I thought your name was there already.

Jim, what do you mean that Sally tampos? Are you sure...I never noticed. ;o))

Dave H.

... in response to Please do..., posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

Lori and Judy--two honorary Pinays.  There is also Cristina.

Thanks Dave and I'm glad you've found Marife. If she's in one of her tampo moods, email me and I have a potion that you can use!

... in response to Yes...and also, posted by Carrisse on Mar 29, 2001

that's dispersed into the surrounding air?  Perhaps methane? Laughing gas should lift someone out of a tampo.   Not the liquid kind to be rubbed on the skin.

- Kevin

... in response to Yes...and also, posted by Carrisse on Mar 29, 2001

Hi Carrisse,

Thanks, but Marife doesn't tampo. She is very up front for a Filipina. She likes to get to the facts and straighten things out right away. She always wanted to be a lawyer...she would have been good at it. ;o) If she ever  does tampo...I will call you 911. ;o))

Dave H.

... in response to Thanks!, posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

Hi Dave,

Your lucky like me. Criselda has never had a tampo either. Thank God!
Even though, she didn't make it on Carrisse's list. ;)

Jay

... in response to Re: Thanks!, posted by Jay on Mar 29, 2001

Jay,

You are right...we are both very lucky. :o))

Criselda should be the President of the Filipina Club! She has to deal with some guy named Airwolf. LOL

I have to go to your site and see the new pictures. I can't wait to see "blimpwolf." ROFLMAO

Dave H.

... in response to Add another to the list..., posted by Dave H on Mar 29, 2001

Kapow!