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The Asian culture is very different from the Western culture with respect to how our elders are regarded.  For Asians it is obligatory to help the aging members of the family.  NO one asks, no one expects but a child who does not help their aging parents is considered to be a very bad person.  As Nancy said, it's our joy to help them just as it was their joy to raise us.

I am very lucky that my husband understood this side of me.  I am capable of earning a living - before and after he came along - and helping my family if I wanted to.  If he told me to stop helping them, I'd leave him without thinking twice about it.  But he loves and respects my parents, especially because of the way they raised us.  

We were always open about everything before we were married and I opened this subject up several times.  We share a bank account and discuss money matters when necessary.  He knows I can handle money as I have proven myself capable - even wiser than him sometimes.  He was almost scared to discuss money matters in the past, but I insisted we sit down and I always had my pencil and paper.

... in response to Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Mita on Oct 9, 2003

I am German and I helped support my Grandmother till she died in Germany.   When she came here to visit I bought her new teeth knowing she didn't have much time to live.  We tried to get her to stay here but she wanted to die in her beloved country surrounded with the few friends she had.   My mother is very stable financially and doesn't need my help.  There has been times when she has helped me with lending me down payments for a house.  She knows I or my sister would take care of her when ever she asks.  
Maybe coz we are from the old country but that is the way I was raised.
It really breaks my heart to stand by and not help my wife's parents on the farm with the lose of their house right now.  
I will wait till February and see for myself after the house is built and the debit is signed of how the best way I can help.  
Because of my complex business dealings it would not be the wisest thing to let my inexperienced wife on the business checking account.  Unfortunately the personal bills are all mixed in with the business.  Trust in my wife is one thing, trust in her experience is another.  
I believe that experience has to be earned in time.
I told my wife I would not help her parents at this time, she has not mentioned the incident since unless I bring it up.  She understands that we have our problems come first.  I offered to give my round trip plane ticket money towards the house.  She said she would rather see me here in February than use the money for her parents house.  If she would have decided other wise I would have a totally different attitude towards her now.  
I know it is not what you believe but that is how I feel..  Once married my wife and I come first, others come second.  In the long run her parents will benefit as I will help them in time.  
My $0.02

... in response to Re: Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 11, 2003

Peter,
You don't have to explain your choice or actions.  We are all sharing our views and I respect yours.  I truly understand where you're coming from.  You were always open about things from the start and that's good.    
My opinion is just one of many that's been shared here recently and that's all it is.
Regards,
Mita

... in response to Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Mita on Oct 9, 2003

Thank you Mita for helping me to understand more about Oriental culture. Good day!

... in response to Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Mita on Oct 9, 2003

Hi Mita,
"The Asian culture is very different from the Western culture with respect to how our elders are regarded." Yes your right.Before I came here  I  really make sure my niece whom very close to me and to my Mom will finished her college and she did.She is a teacher now.I plan her education for my Mom because I know for sure I can't always be there for my Mom.Still I'm very much lucky because I never expect my husband to help my mother.I never talk to him about helping Mom.I did understand very well the western culture.So I never bother discussing this money topic to him.My mom never expect any help from us either.After our wedding to my big surprise my husband send a big amount of money to my mother to build a nice fancy house.My husband  send money to my Mom too in regular basis.I never discuss this to him nor beg him to send my mom money,my hubby do this in his own will.How lucky I am.Mom so proud of Him.No one is as proud as me than my Mom.Everybody in my island tell mom how luck I am and her too because I married a very nice ,kind,generous,faithful,devoted guy.I guess if we really don't have that extra money for sure  I will tell Hubby not to send any for my mother.And sure my mom will understand.Lucky Mother she receive allotment money from my seaman brother too.Well my niece is now living with my mother and hubby want her to get her masteral degree.
About   my brother especially the one I talk to having money problems I know they can get by without our help both him and his wife is professional(a teacher and a supervisor)I been rude to him because I feel he start abusing my husband kindness to my family and I don't want that to happen.I don't want them to see on my husband as a dollar sign.Raquel

... in response to Re: Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Febtember on Oct 9, 2003

Feptember,
Even I would draw the line there.  Fortunately, none of my siblings in the Philippines have ever called us for monetary assistance.  I did send money to a sister whose husband is out of work when their little boy got sick.  
We do help each other out still...it's a difficult situation when you know a family member is going thru a hard time.  I say if you have the capacity to help out, you should.  It's not every person that has that capacity in the family.  Besides, I believe in karma - what you sow is what you reap; do unto others as you would have done unto you - it's just basic human kindness.
Mita

... in response to Re: Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Febtember on Oct 9, 2003

Mi goodness professional asking for help....
Ah...para utang yan he...he..especially teacher daghan kog kailang teacher ing-ana, ana jud n sila.....

... in response to Re: Re: Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Esiang on Oct 10, 2003

My family are very close and whatever problem arises in one family they must to share it to every one of the member. Yes, it happened to me... My brother sent me text on chikka and says he want me to call him, so I did call. He wants to borrow money and I just laugh when he said that on the phone. I couldn't believe because they are working in the government the wife and the husband, and I know how much they earned. But, before that I talked my sister in law and she said they are in a hard time for now because they also help some of my relatives back home who are really in need. And I also know that my brother can pay us back. So I talked to Ken and we agreed.

It is not bad if one of our families asked to borrow some amount if we know he/she is capable to pay back. And also we know who is in the family can’t pay. I don’t believed that if we are in PI and marry a Filipino and know that one of our family needs help and we just watch them because we know they are working in government and earn good money. Not me, my heart is big and can’t stand. But, so far none of them take advantage on Ken and me. And I have one sister said she will borrow money and I told her…. No we won’t, but instead we gave her because I know she can’t pay back. And I don’t want Ken and me to expect the payment. Nancy

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Nanz on Oct 11, 2003

Sori Nanz,
        About the parautang professional especially teacher,I'm not really sure if Febs bro was parautang.
But like I said especially teacher, it just happens that I've known bunch of these teachers so parautang to my Mother again and again and guess what they can afford to buy pang-arte but they can't pay her back ever....
        They have luxuries but damn rice,damn tuition for their kids, they dont have it,so ashame looking so sexy with make-up and yet have to utang everything especially food from our small store.
        Everytime my Mother's co-teacher visits in our house, it's always about utang....
        Now go the point I just hate these people who prioritize unnecessary things in life instead of the most important.It's being irresponsible especially if your a professional working in the Phils. gov. and you always make utang. A good creditor is ok but most that I know (teachers)just forget of what they owed and just go on with their damn luxuries full of debt.....in the end they have nothing....
          And whose smiling now "richee leal" he..he..he...(joking)seriously it's really sad for them co'z they never learned.

          Untimely emergencies and relatives we knew can't afford to pay us back especially small utang only compare to our currency is definitely ok as long as it's not always.
          I don't really like to consider it as debt when
it come's within the circle of my family,but I know my Bro(an engineer utang to the youngest sis)had a pride and he will pay us back no matter what just like he did to our Mother.Now that's a good creditor and a good person....

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Filipin..., posted by Esiang on Oct 11, 2003


my family has a small business backhome  and  they asked me
that they wanted to venture  another business coz what they had  
at that moment s not doing well. Damn pautang the business s all
gone now. The people like to utang, pay  1/3 of the utang and
utang again until the capital's gone.  

Esiang, you are right that some people magkadaiya ang pa-guapa
kay sa kan-onon. Credit s here and there coz they wanted a new
clothes, new shoes. It's fiesta so we need to utang  para naay
igasto. Most of the time it's just jealousy, sena-sena.  Bahala na
magkandarapa sa utang basta kay naay ipasiksi, naay
ipanghinambog.  

I just remember, my friend told me that there are a lot of  Flips
(That's my shorcut)  who has cellfons, pagers and other electronic
devices tucked in there waistline and yet when they go home
there's nothing to eat.

Peaches

... in response to speaking of "pautang", posted by Peaches on Oct 11, 2003

That seems to be the norm in the PI. Cellphone, Gold jewelry, cigs, Rum but no roof over the head or food to eat.

All people have there vices in every country. (Especially the USA!!!)  Even with their faults the Filipino people are at the top of my list.

The problema arises when the Kano gets involved with Pautang, and utang with the family.

Hum   PS watch the Flip thing Jay will jump all over you! lol

... in response to speaking of "pautang", posted by Peaches on Oct 11, 2003

"there are a lot of ... who has cellfons, pagers and other electronic devices tucked in there waistline and yet when they go home there's nothing to eat". How true!

But no problem. Now they can call Pizza Hut and they'll deliver (on credit)... :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: speaking of "pautang", posted by Ray on Oct 11, 2003

Bitaw, it's really none of my business if they wanted to have that
kind of lifestyle.  They just wanted to  grab a little of people's
attention of being "sikat"  "social"  and then here I am, so
hipokrita. :))
It's just sad to think about the situation.  Why can't be humble and
be true.

regards
peaches

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Filipinas, posted by Nanz on Oct 11, 2003


Thanks Nanz,

You can imagine how sad I feel knowing my wife's Daddy is losing their house with this highway expansion.   It is cause for suspicion because of the timing.  She ask me only once to help them and the only time she mentioned it again was when I asked about it.   I don't know her family and I have never seen their farm coz she lives in an unsafe mountain area in Kapatagan, Mindanao.  She always tries to save money when we go someplace, cheaper hotel or less expensive places to eat.  On our 2200 klm trip around the Visayas in our motorcycle she probably saved me more than $1000.  We saved a lot of money when she insisted on just having a civil ceremony instead of a church white wedding.  Now I said “no” to helping her Dad as he is borrowing 60,000 peso at 20% and using his land as collateral.  Every bone in my body wants to send her the money.  Reading the different ideas on this forum has made me stop and think about it.   Her Dad is doing what he has too when there is no outside help.  I don't think he expects any help.  I will discipline myself to hold off and wait till February and try to go there myself and without telling them help them then.  
I read your letter and see that there are times when help is needed.  I wouldn't want her Dad to pay me back but signing a note for collateral to me and their daughter rather than a stranger for 20% would take off a lot of hardship.  That way he keeps some self esteem by getting the money in an honest way.  If ever he can’t pay the payments in the future it could be forgotten or paid back indirectly by using his payments to buy him more cows or pigs or something.  
I am in the middle of paperwork to get Maricel to the US.
My idea is to do one thing at a time.  
Your letter tells me that there are times for tough love and wait or say no.  Am I on the right track?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Filipin..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 11, 2003

Peter,

Help them if you think they need your help now, and like what Ray said do it unconditionally to saves face. I understand when your wife asked you only once, because she knows before the family problem arises that you are not rich and told her the things like this and that. And she understands because she loves you. But, I know how she feels by the time she asked and you say no. You know if you wait later and her family is still paying the interests of what they owed, it is a big pain paying 20% every month. Farmers in PI don’t make enough money. So, it would be hard for you’re in laws. Do what you think is good to help them, and in that way you make your wife be happy knowing you help her parents.

Tell Maricel to be patient about the processing of you papers and tell her to be optimistic in these things because sooner or later she will be with you. I heard those rumors before when I was in PI for about two years and they said it will take me forever before I can live with Ken, but still praying and hoping everyday that things will be alright. The only things that cheer our day are to send email and talk on the phone everyday. I rented a house in the city so it would be easy for me to keep in touch with him, which is a good idea.

Take care and have a nice weekend.
Nancy

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Fil..., posted by Nanz on Oct 12, 2003

Thank you Nancy,
I don’t know you but it seems you or women you have known have had similar situations.  Yes your advice is close to what I am thinking.  What is missing is the question, am I the only one thinking the same things.   These threads help me to see if I am on the right track.  It is complicated as my wife is young and doesn’t have much experience in how to handle helping her parents and being loyal to me, I am sure she loves us both.   She will go to Cebu next week where I can communicate with her much easier.  I feel I did some damage asking her to choose my plane ticket for Feb or use that money for fixing her parents house.  I was on the phone with her and I ask her to sell the motorcycle and use the money to help.  She didn’t like that idea coz if I stayed and retired I would need it with my bad hip.  After that I gave her the idea that I could use the money for the plane ticket to help her parents with the house.  I knew I made a mistake but it was too late.  A test of her maturity and without hesitation said I should come in Feb and that seeing me was more important than the house.  We were husband and wife and we have to meet in Feb.  
Well now my idea is get more detail about the parent’s house and at least help with half before they sell any more stock and get the house started without the big loan.  You and Ray advising me to do it unconditionally is what I will do.  I am aware of the pride thing and with your letter have a better understanding of how they must feel.   I have a different respect for all of them knowing they are in trouble and are not expecting anything from me.  
About Maricel not wanting to come to the USA is partly my fault.  I had made her believe that I may retire in the PI.  I looked at real estate with her in most of the islands we visited.  We had lengthy conversations of which island would be the best to settle in.  She liked the idea of being close to her family, friends and things she knew.  And like you said she had friends and rumors of long waiting to come to the USA.  
Although I did see places that I liked to retire in the PI when I got off the plane in Orlando and rode the highway back to Daytona I could feel my mind changing to retire here.  
I did have a conversation with her last time explaining the paper work and to be patient that it will be faster than we thought.  So I told her to forget buying the piglets to raise.  At the same time I didn’t want to raise any false hopes of us getting together in the US soon.  I myself was under the belief that the K3 would take about a year.  Things have changed a lot since a year ago.   Now I see some have reunited within 6 to 8 months.  Maricel is not that good on the email or chat.  If we didn’t meet in person at first we would have never met.  She reluctantly went on the email after I had returned to the USA.  I got educated in Australia with 6 grades in one room and one teacher around 1948 to 1959.   My education suffered and to this day without spell check I would be lost.   So we chat on Yahoo and I have learned to talk to her on the phone five minutes at a time.  She was so excited coz the town she emails me from now has a tower that was completed for cell phone coverage.  Now she only has to travel 40 min for cell phone coverage and email availability.  Alas when we chat there is a lot of down time, the server there is not very reliable.  Ray gave good advice to get her out of the mountains and into Cebu where she can communicate every day.  Well yes but once she has done all her paperwork she wants to go back with her mama and papa.   More so if she thinks she will not see them for a long time later.  At first she wanted to get a house in Cebu but has since changed her mind.  She said she liked Cebu but missed being home too.  So what makes sense sometimes is a problem with the heart.  I am still not that sure how long the K3 will take.  So I told her that I plan to see her in Feb for sure no matter what.  There are no men in her family except her dad and her older sister’s husband.  She has two younger sisters under 15 and I wonder if that would make it harder for her daddy as girls are not as helpful on the farm as boys would.  
Thanks for the feed back Nancy it is appreciated.  

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Filipin..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 11, 2003

Peter,

This is just my opinion, but "IF" you decide to help her dad with the house thing, and you sound as if you probably will, I would simply gift the money with NO strings attached. Forget about trust deeds, collateral, or paying back a loan. No mention of using your plane fare or whining about your bad hip to make them feel guilty about it. Make it a straight unconditional gift or don't do it all. That way everybody saves face.

The ONLY condition that I would insist on if were me would be that neither he nor my wife ever tell ANYONE that he got the money from me. I think it would be better to be kept anonymous. You wouldn't want the rest of the family thinking that you have a soft heart or that you're an easy mark... :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Fil..., posted by Ray on Oct 11, 2003

Well Ray you make it sound so simple.  It is very clear to me now what you have said and I feel it is good advice.  My question would be timing.  When to do it?  I thought it would be a good idea to do this on my next trip around Feb.  I could just hand over the Money personally to Dad or Maricel.  I have decided to meet with them if not on their farm at least in Ozamis.  It would be tricky to hand over the money without the older sister knowing about it.  Maricel is the second oldest and they have no secrets from each other. The older sister who is married and has a 2 year old loves the parents too.  So if they see it as money for a life raft and a one time thing it may go over.  The richer Aunt in Cebu don’t have to be told but she never asked me for anything when she had the chance.  Because there are no boys in her family only girls two of which are under 15 makes it easier.  You took away the cloudy mess and I feel comfortable with your suggestion.
I was wrestling with looking like an easy mark when taking care of their needs.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Money Issues and Fil..., posted by Ray on Oct 11, 2003

All the rest of that nonsense, is just that.

- Jeff