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[This message has been edited by outwest77]

Does anyone know if a plane , for example, Cathay Pacific, which is based in Hong Kong, Which always stops in Hong Kong before going on to Manila if it originates In San Francisco or Los angeles, If this would be considered "coming from Hong Kong" in the mind of the philippines officials at Ninoy Aquino International Airport.?

I recently saw this posted on a phils newspaper site
This is cut and paste from The Daily Tribune, i have capitalized the words in question
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
The Philippine government on Thursday advised Filipinos against traveling to Hong Kong, southern China, Vietnam and Singapore and froze deployments of Filipino workers to Hong Kong as part of efforts to halt the spread of the disease.

Department of Tourism Secretary Richard Gordon, however, said tourists coming from SARS-affected countries can still come to the Philippines """""IF THEY HAVE MEDICAL AND HEALTH CERTIFICATES THAT WILL PROVE THEY ARE NOT INFECTED WITH THE DREADED DISEASE."""""

This begs the question, if you are travelling to the phils from the USA and your plane has a layover in Hong Kong, i wonder if the phils government would consider you as a high risk passenger and require the above documents from you, just as if your flight had originated in Hong kong, or you lived or worked there"

... in response to SARS entry to NAIA from Hong Kong??, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

Outwest
My friend flew into Cebu international yesterday from hong kong on cathay pacific and he had no problems or even questions entering. Maybe it is diff in manila but i dont think it would be. He did wear a mask on the long flight from la to hk and while he was in the airport until he arrived on pi soil... Good luck!!

... in response to Re: SARS entry to NAIA from Hong Kong??, posted by snowman on Apr 13, 2003

I appreciate the feedback, i hope  NAIA in manila is the same, dont look forward to the mask part though

... in response to Thanks , posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

outwest77

Can you find out in your infinite wisdom what kind of mask would work on such or any virus, if any at all?

Air born viruses, mask effectiveness, do they work and where can you get one?

I know if one of my kids in my school gets a cold I get it but the others don't.

My mom says I should wash my hands a lot and she claims that is the easiest way for viruses to spread.  

Can it spread in the air without moisture drops from coughing or sneezing?

What is the new blood test they have to determine if you got it?

I heard they isolated the chain in the DNA that causes
Death by this Virus and a first step to finding a vaccine.

Can u find out anything about that for us?

Rumors have it that it started in a small town in China where they practiced eating live monkey brains.  Is that true??

Thanks for the past info

... in response to Re: Thanks , posted by Peter Lee on Apr 15, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

Hi Peter,

I am not an expert, but talking as a layman. I have had fire department infection control and haz-mat training, but it was over 6 years ago. Surgical and dust filter masks that we see most people wearing, won't do the job as they only filter out larger particles. They just give the person wearing them a false sense of security...which if it helps them to relax and not panic, is probably a good thing. I think there are many other potential life-threatening situations much more worthy of consideration...like "always look right first while crossing the street in Hong Kong." (Sally taught me that) ;o))) Surgical masks and dust filter masks would perhaps help to contain a cough or sneeze from a patient with a virus from spreading throughout a large area. I would think that at a minimum, a N95 Respirator Mask would be required. It is used by medical personnel treating TB patients. If I recall correctly, the N95 filters out particles to 1 micron. Remember that viruses are smaller than bacteria. The SARS virus may be smaller than 1 micron, I haven't read, so they may be ineffective. The mask would have to be properly fitted and tested for leaks. Then it would have to be worn during a potential SARS exposure. That is very hard to do on a 12-14 hour transpacific flight. Since cabin air is recirculated. You would have to wear the mask the entire time, no eating or drinking. A SCBA (possitive pressure self contained breathing apparatus - compressed bottle air) would be your best choice for pure air, but portable tanks that you carry last only about 30-60 minutes. You would need very large tanks for a long trip, making yourself totally immobile. Unless you were on a private charter flight and obtained long hoses. :O I have heard some mention of bio-terrorism hoods being effective. Keep in mind that any filter will make breathing more difficult and be very uncomfortable over a period of time. The 'Bubble Bunker' is my personal favorite:  ;o))) http://www.didik.com/bubble2.htm

Dave H.

... in response to SARS entry to NAIA from Hong Kong??, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

[This message has been edited by outwest77]

about SARS in the phils, since those posts draw zero response

... in response to Guess u guys dont know dont care, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

Sorry, but I think you are just trolling to get people to post to messages of yours.

Jon

... in response to Re: Guess u guys dont know dont care, posted by jon on Apr 13, 2003

Ya i just post indepth questions about NAIA , SARS, phils travel, , I post phils news articles, Map sites, etc etc etc, how many useful posts do you put up? show me some?

... in response to uh how many useful posts do you put up, posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

[This message has been edited by jon]

It's not my job to post useful info, at least last time i checked.  I usually have questions, and rarely post.  Thanks for asking.  But as I said, and it seems to be the same with a few others, that you just crave attention.

Jon

... in response to Re: uh how many useful posts do you put ..., posted by jon on Apr 13, 2003

If it were not for me and a few others who regularly post on here , dave, ray, humbados, peter, Jeff S, Bear, maybe about 15 total, this board would be DEAD, so get a life, if you dont like my posts dont read em

... in response to you validate my point, posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

Does this mean i finally belog????

... in response to you validate my point, posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

Many people read this board,,most don't post very often, and your posts do sound like a person who wants our attention????why???

I wonder?

Steveb

... in response to Re: you validate my point, posted by SteveB on Apr 13, 2003

[This message has been edited by outwest77]

Steve, i appreciate the feedback, not trying to offend anyone here, after all we are here to share ideas, as i said to Ray, perhaps sometimes i post stuff the guys are not interested in, oh well, i will try to tone it down from now on

again, salamat for the feedback

... in response to you validate my point, posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

...you are the only one who has to proclaim his own self relevance and repeatedly demand recognition.

Insinuating that the rest of us are somehow ignorant or don’t care simply because we didn’t respond to your posts I find rather silly. The rest of us don’t keep score on how many useful posts we put up or how many replies we get. A little humility goes a long way. Why not try it some time?

OBTW, there is NO WAY that you are in the same class as Dave H! (ROTFLMAOCUMLTNTPIMGDP!)

Just my opinion,

Ray

... in response to However..., posted by Ray on Apr 13, 2003

Ok Ray i will try to tone it down,  i appreciate the feedback, even though i dont always agree, thats what this forum is for, again, salamat

... in response to However..., posted by Ray on Apr 13, 2003

[This message has been edited by joemc]

he is in his own class. beyond normal

... in response to Dave H. is a class act, posted by joemc on Apr 14, 2003

Hi Joe,

'Beyond Normal'...I really think you hit the nail right on the head. @8o))) I was in the Class of Abnormals 1975.  

Dave H.

... in response to ROFLMAO!, posted by Dave H on Apr 14, 2003

Class of 75 rules,

... in response to you validate my point, posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

Why thanks for the advice, but I do have a life.  Golly, I did not immediately realize you were so important, and had just great purpose, especially to your board, er, Patrick's board.

Jon

... in response to Guess u guys dont know dont care, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

Let's put things in perspective.
In the past month, 30 times as many people were killed by traffic accidents alone in the United States than were killed by SARS in the ENTIRE WORLD (that we know of outside China). (source: CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control)

Demanding an immediate response to a post is very poor netiquette.  Some people have real lives outside this board and maybe haven't had a chance to read the latest statements, let alone think of a reasoned response that won't contribute the the already flourishing hype and fear.  It might be wise to give any new post 24 hours to ferment before declaring and entire community to be a bunch of uncaring bums.  JMHO.

... in response to What's with the paranoia?, posted by Bob S on Apr 13, 2003

Interesting with ur analogy about Sars and traffic deaths.

It wouldn't help me though coz i don't expect to get hit by a car when stepping on or off the plane.

Traffic deaths would probebly be the same year after year and it's not catching [thank God]

But Sars on the other hand could get out of control or a high risk if you travel to certain places

I wonder why u used such a poor example?  It didn't seem like apples with apples.  Please try again so I can get your point

But i am stating the obvious and you should have too.

I will let this ferment 24 hours LOL

Happy to hear you have a real life! I always wanted one hehehehe

... in response to Re: What's with the paranoia?, posted by Peter Lee on Apr 15, 2003

But traffic fatalities are catching in that you catch a big hunk of metal when you least expect it.

SARS you get by something you do naturally every day: Breathing.  There are some precautions you can take to minimize your risk, but it still hits you when you least expect it.

A fatal traffic accident comes to you when you do something natural every day: leaving your house.  There are also some precautions you can take to minimize your risk (seat belts, reduced speed), but it also still hits you when you least expect it. How many people walk out to their cars and freeze, thinking "gee, I might be one of the hundred or so people who will be killed in a traffic accident today. I better not leave the house."?

It comes down to rational vs irrational fear based on what is statistically likely to happen.  Odds are very slim that you'll catch SARS in the Phils.  Odds are higher that you will get hit by a jeepney and rushed to a hospital where you will get Hepatitis from a dirty needle used to give you a transfusion (and you don't want to know where that blood came from).

... in response to What's with the paranoia?, posted by Bob S on Apr 13, 2003

[This message has been edited by outwest77]

I posted ,

1) the World Health Organization official SARS information website
2) The Ninoy Aquino International Airport SARS quarantine information,
3) CNN Health Questions and Answers about SARS,

These Were Posted 3 days ago...............
no response, zip zero nada......

so your assertion i am frantically waiting for an immediate response is off base

The most recent post i made is a simple question, is anyone aware of entry restrictions regarding stopover flights from hong kong.

If I was paranoid i would not go, and i am da.mn sure not staying home all summer because of some SARS in asia, however, if you are flying to asia you had better be aware of travel restrictions regarding entrance from certain countrys . which have a large incidence of SARS, Being that if you read my post it says that the phils government is requiring entering passengers who come from  Hong Kong to PROVE with a doctors record upon arrival that they are SARS free. That is what the post was put up for, to see if anyone knows if  you are flying to the phils , whether the philippines authorities at NAIA,  regard Hong Kong transfer or stopover flights as the same as Flights which originate in Hong Kong...If they do regard them as one in the same, you would be wise to avoid flights on airlines which layover in Hong Kong, ............diba?

If you are not interested in SARS in asia, or you wont be travelling there soon, you can easily bypass the posts, but many of the guys on the board, including myself, will be travelling there soon, and would like feedback from board members on topics which relate to such travel.

... in response to What paranoia?, posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

"i am da.mn sure not staying home all summer because of some SARS in asia"

Good.  From just behind the front lines here in Asia, there seems like a lot of news hype because:
1. The war in Iraq is winding down creating a lot of slow news days.
2. There is something instictual in our collective fear of anything that hints of a plague.

For those actually traveling, there is some useful info from the local AFN radio that advises people to wash their hands frequently.  Also "Time" Asia edition gives advice on those masks you see everybody wearing.  The cotton and gauze ones are just about useless.  Go with surgical masks or 3M's industrial mask.  As weather warms up, people will naturally be going out more, so less people cramped into small indoor places sharing breath moisture droplets.

The Phil's gov't response may seem over-the-top, but it's just that sort of harsh strictures that stopped the virus from getting too much of a toe-hold in Singapore (source: Time magazine Asia edition).

(Though all that being said, I'm glad I went there {to China} BEFORE the outbreak started.)

... in response to Guess u guys dont know dont care, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

You're beginning to sound like a gossiping woman with all these SARS posts. Last I heard, there is ONE (1) confirmed case of SARS in the Philippines and 166 cases in the U.S.

If you're that worried about it, just stay home and put duct tape on all your doors and windows :-)

There, now you got a response. Are you happy now? Sheeeesh!

Ray

P.S. Sorry if I offended any ladies...

... in response to What is your problem, anyway?, posted by Ray on Apr 12, 2003

Hey Ray,

We have have more cases in Florida alone, than the Philippines. Last I heard, the percentage of deaths of SARS infected people was around 3%. I haven't seen anything mentioned about the age, prior health, or healthcare received in regards to these people who died.

Dave H.

... in response to Re: What is your problem, anyway?, posted by Dave H on Apr 12, 2003

I have heard it is mostly elderly who are susceptible,
and close contact is required to be infected

... in response to Re: Re: What is your problem, anyway?, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

Hi Outwest,

...usually the old, ill, and very young. Since I am very susceptible to respiratory infections, I would be more inclined to use PAL direct from the Philippines to the US during this health scare, since cabin air is recalculated. Forget about those cheap masks unless you want to look like Michael Jackson.  I might be able to pull it off in Japan. 8-H

Dave H

... in response to What is your problem, anyway?, posted by Ray on Apr 12, 2003

[This message has been edited by outwest77]

Posting about SARS, duh, its an asian crisis, Why would any of us guys who have asian wives or girlfriends , who have family members and friends
in the Phils, Some with Relatives in Hong kong, in which the whole city is wearing masks , schools are closed, offices are closed.
Hmm, why would we be interested in SARS? , i Cant for the life of me think of a reason.........duh...............

You seem to respond to anyone with an opinion different than yours or who you think is off base, with a ranting tirade,..........hmm seems like an anger problem to me

... in response to Re: What is your problem, anyway?, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

...you seem to have written the book (ROFLMAO).

Do you realize how childish you look when you start your silly whining and crying because nobody responded to your post in a timely manner? Sounds like a maturity problem to me...

Ray

... in response to Speaking of ranting tirades..., posted by Ray on Apr 12, 2003

[This message has been edited by outwest77]

Timely manner, bs i posted 3 posts on SARS 3 days ago,
no response, the only time you repond is if someone baits you,

You have many times ranted and raved and thrown insults to posts i have made with no provocation, and when you are called on it, you pile it on more, or slink back to your corner, you seem to be the only one who whines about my posts, seems like an anger problem, like i said before

... in response to ya ur the king so u should know, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

your the only one who responded to my monkey brain SARS joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. :-( booo hoooo
Hum

... in response to Hoy I'm mad too!, posted by Humabdos on Apr 12, 2003

Hi Hum,

I thought that you were stating a fact and didn't realize it was a joke. ROFLMAOPIMMFP!

Dave H.

... in response to Sorry!, posted by Dave H on Apr 13, 2003

Although it wouldn't surprise me much if it where true! lol
Hum

... in response to Now thats funny Dave ROTFLMFAO!, posted by Humabdos on Apr 13, 2003

thats y i said be serious, some of us are sarcastic by nature

... in response to i thought it was a joke, i guess we thin..., posted by outwest77 on Apr 13, 2003

ROTFLMFAO! :-))

... in response to ya ur the king so u should know, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

I don't agree with you that everyone here should respond to every one of your posts. Now try real hard to get over it.

If you want a response to all your posts, why don't you go back to the Russian board... ROTFLMGDAOTNTPINFP!

Ray

... in response to You're right..., posted by Ray on Apr 12, 2003

I would insult you but the sad thing is, you would not understand it

... in response to Guess u guys dont know dont care, posted by outwest77 on Apr 12, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

...the Philippines being the Philippines...I will probably be wrong anyway. ;o)))

My guess is that if the passenger doesn't get off the plane in Hong Kong or they are transfered from a flight originating from someplace other than Hong Kong, southern China, Singapore, or Vietnam, there would be little, if any problem.

Dave H.

... in response to Don't know, but I could guess..., posted by Dave H on Apr 12, 2003

Thanks Dave, i agree with that theory, and thats what i would classify it as, a theory, but given the twisted logic i often observe over there, i would not place any bets on it, I think i may decide not to fly through Hong Kong in early june when i go back for the summer, that leaves the question of who to fly with, I heard continental cancelled many of their asian flights, China Airlines is out, since they crash all the time, I dont trust PAL, so it may be
Northwest or Japan Air etc, watever i decide it will be sure to be mostly an empty flight, i know one thing for sure, i am not staying home all summer just because of SARS in asia.