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Hey guys and gals,
I thought I could stop your disagreements for a bit by keeping you in good humor with my latest update.  Remember I am the one who is engaged to an almost 20 year old Filipina and I am 59 years young.
It is 85 more days till I get to see my sweetheart again.   She has graduated from school and is heading from Cebu to Kebawi in Mindanao.  We chatted on yahoo and the next day I called her and we talked for 45 minutes.  Then no word, no email for 4 days, I got worried and tried to call but the cell phone said out of coverage area.   She had told me ahead of time she was graduating and would be very busy.  I tried again to night and the phone rang, it was exciting to hear her voice again.   She was in Mindanao on a jeepney and just got off the ferry heading to Lanao and home.  She has 4 more hours with the jeepney and 5 hours with a motortricyle before she gets to her dad’s farm.  Once there she will be out of cell coverage and we won’t be able to talk unless we make a date for a certain time so she can email me or I can call her.   She said it takes 2 hours of riding to get to the closest email café from her house.  We laughed talked about the usual I miss you and love you stuff and were happy to communicate again.   She said that she mailed me a snail mail with pictures of her and her 3 sisters Mom and Dad.  I felt a genuine feeling of love and affection over the phone.   But I am in love and won’t see any red flags even if I try.  That is why I write this board, you guys don’t hold back anything and some of you have been raked through the coals.   I know I am taking a big risk but remember I was in Vietnam 2 years as a paratrooper risk was a day to day thing and a least no one is shooting at me this time.  I wonder sometimes if I did not meet this girl I would not be in this risk business.  Had I not met her I would have gone home and never experienced the feelings I have now.  I am surrounded by people and feel lonely without chatting or talking on the phone with her.  In other words I am in deep trouble and will not see warning signs.  After graduation she was to go to a 2 months seaman’s school to be qualified to work on a cruise ship.   Although the fee for the graduation school was about 3500 pesos per month this 2 months school was 48,000 pesos.   I ask her why it was so much and she said it included fire fighting and lifeboat rescue that the crew has to know to get the job.   We discussed it at length and it seemed a waste of money to do this if we were going to get married.   She agreed and was willing to work later if the immigration papers would take very long.  She was willing to add her payroll to the expenses of getting married.  I wondered about the high fees for this part of the course.  The school is Concord Technical Institute Cebu City and I seen it down town in Cebu.  It seems there is 5 months per semester and 5 semesters total.  The last phase, Phase III Shipboard Experience which is 2 months she did not complete because of the high tuition fees.  It sounds like they are raking these gals over the coals by not telling them till later that the last semester is so expensive.   When I asked her how she could have paid for this she said her uncle is a chief engineer and would front her money coz he knows she is a good girl and could get the job would pay it back from her paycheck.  I had used the ATM idea that you guys gave me and had $200 in the account to see what would happen.  Nothing happened and she withdrew money for school expenses and to get her passport.   Then I checked the bank statement and it showed that all the money was withdrawn right after her graduation.  When I asked her about it in the phone she told me that not all ATM machines accept my card and she was not sure if she could have access to the money once she left Cebu.  This sounded reasonable so I asked her how much she had left and I was told 6000 pesos.  She said the graduation had more expenses but she had received an honor medal of some kind because of her high grades.  This money was discussed to last her till the end of June till I get there.  Any excess money would be used for our wedding or honeymoon.  It was my idea through this board that I have a church wedding and not just a civil wedding as she suggested.   She did admit that she would prefer a church wedding but wanted to save me money.  She will ask her Mom and older sister to help put a wedding together for us in Cebu.  She said again that Lanao was not safe for me to have a wedding there.  
I want to say to the ones that read this that is very hard to write these things as I see them.  I have made public knowledge of my personal affairs which few people would do even on this board.  I know that there will be difference of opinions and I am ready for the worst.   I realize I have made mistakes in this relationship and need to know what direction to go now.   I will have to send money for the wedding sooner or later and I am still in an attitude of trust.  How should I handle this situation from here?
Thank you all.

The school costs can be researched.  One of the posts below gave a URL for the school.  But see above.  Honestly, if you can't set limits and express your expectations of her and how she amd her family benefits from your generosity, then you are making a tremendous mistake.

Bear and Honey

Actually from my experience, it means something quite different.

From what I have observed over the years, “pilosopo” is a Tagalog slang word that is usually used to describe a person who overuses reason or tends to be very argumentative on a variety of subjects, like a smart-ass or pain-in-the-butt. I always thought the word was derived from and has a similar meaning to “philosopher”, but used more in a derogatory sense to describe a person who always “philosophizes” too much, if that makes any sense.

Maybe we could hear from some of the native Filipinos on the meaning of “pilosopo”?

Ray (pilosopo)

Bear and Honey

   Lessons are repeated till learned.  I guess I got my lesson and you can say I told you so.  I did ask for a detailed list of expenses.  Receipts would be another story coz it would take weeks to get them here with snail mail, so I was satisfied with a list when we were on the chat line.  The tuition and graduation was a legitimate expense coz I agreed to it from the beginning.  That is where the most of the money went.  Some for loading her cell phone and email café’s, some for getting her passport and NSO.  Her Aunt is quiet rich in Philippine standards and is helping 7 family kids go to school in Cebu.  I did not get any indication that the aunt wanted money from me direct or indirect.  Everyone in this family was either working making a good living or going to school.  I did pay for her Mom to come and visit us from Mindanao and bring along the letter for permission to marry.  The red flag went up for me when I heard 48,000 pesos for 2 months!!  Up to that time all the money was accounted for. There were limits set for tuition 3500 pesos per month and graduation which was more expensive but detailed.  I got in on the end of her tuition and graduation coz I didn't know her before then.  Her dad asked that if I court her if it would be ok if I paid for the rest of her tuition, which I did.  I allowed her 1000 pesos per month for expenses.  This was the budget and the limits; she was going along with it with no problem.  So I committed 3 months of tuition plus the graduation.  I thought that was pretty cheap and very little of it was personal use.  I tried not to seem hard core about it.  I felt confident to put in $200 as I did before.  I was surprised to find that the day after graduation all the money was withdrawn.   No email no chat line for 4 days.   The phone was [recording out of coverage area] and finally a ring and she was there all bubbly and happy.  Yes she took the money out coz no atm at her home.  Yes she been real busy coz of the graduation and she received a special award and her family was very proud.  How much is left of the over 10,000 pesos?  6000 she said, and the rest was used for more graduation expenses [no detail].  This last part is where I lost control of the money.  I had put the money there to see if she could handle it.  I am still not sure if it was misused.  If it was,  not by much.  The only thorn in my side was the nagging 48,000 pesos for the Part III of the seaman’s school.   I will find out tomorrow when I call if it is a real number or not.   I may have wimped out a bit by being a bit slack but I wasn’t a superwimp.  Some of your suggestions were followed and I adjusted them to my situation.  I will not send any more money now, she should have enough to get buy till I get there in June or July.   She understands that any money left over is for our wedding or honeymoon.   If we continue our relationship I will do as you suggested and be more detailed in receipts and budgeting.  By now she should know my expectations of her and I don’t expect her family to benefit from me in any other way except that I will take good care of their daughter.   The next problem will be how to handle money for the wedding ehhehehe.

Your girl sounds like she just needs some guidance, i guess, and like the rest of the guys say, limits, the cultural diffference and distance makes this whole process very difficult.

Even though i am very much more cautious than some of the guys here, it does not mean i am necessarily happier. Heck, i think the guys who just go over for a week and get engaged, most of those guys seem to be very happy, so maybe i will have to finally decide to take the plunge like you have . thats the one thing i have not done, take that final leap, i admire you for that. I have spent so much time with my gf but not gotten engaged, I guess i am scared to death of the prospect.
Anyway, hope my comments were not out of line,

Best of luck to you and your New Wife.

tito Matt

I am devistated!

I feel it is her doing too

I haven't had any such problems with my in-laws that Bear describes. It's easy to ass-u-me that ALL Filipino families will act in the same way, which is simply stereotyping.

Ray

Happily though this was recently resolved and apologies accepted.  I sent them a long letter explaining how things work here in the USA and the costs and showed where as our money goes a long way there I still live from payday to payday, just as they do, here.  I still had to save and work extra hours to provide as I did.  It finally made sense to them.  Unfortuneately people who send hundreds and thousands monthly to "girlfriends" cause this problem.  A gf has no right to a bf's money - period.  They think that we either do not know the value of money or that we are all rich and they honestly believe that they deserve it for no reason other than we correspond with their daughter.  What surprises me the most is that almost every Filipina I have met here who have been here more than 10 years hardly corresponds with any of those back home wanting money.  They reach a breaking point and stop sending money knowing that they'll be called a "bad daughter".  I know two right now who are in tears often because they practically live in poverty while family members take advantage of them back home.

Ask Dave H. I was in shock when he told me about some of the young teenagers in his wifes family.

Bear and Honey

If emergency occurs with my sisters that I could help but in a small way.

Not my wife's family! The youngest in my wife's family is 23 and working as an engineer. 3 nurses, 2 engineers, and 1 accountant.

Dave H.

I am glad to hear your relationship is getting on the right foot.Maybe now you can give advise to newbies about establishing relationships instead of just warning about how terrible families are.

tito Matt

1)When did you meet this girl and how long did you spend together. How long did you correspond before you met her.

2)Have you met her friends or family.

3)If you find out that the story about the tuition is bogus, what do you plan to do at that point. Will you forgive her if she comes up with a big song and dance about some other expenses that came up and that she was just afraid to tell you about it blah blah. It sounds to me like she is already doing a little bit of fast talking

One thing that you have to do , if i were you, is to set her up on CHIKKA, that way you can text to her cell phone, from your computer, that will make it somewhat easier for you to communicqte with her...www.chikka.com, just enter her cell phone starting with 63.916, etc etc, as her number.

Reading all of the responses to your message and the responses that you have typed back to them, to me indicates that you are a bit worried that she may be conning you, and i understand your apprehension. But , as we all do when we are in  love, you have a tendency to give her 100% benefit of the doubt since you love her, and also to cave if and when the tears and drama come.

The main thing i would recommend To you is, if much of this story does not check out. listen to your gut,if she did lie about the tuition, the least you can do is postpone the wedding,  since there are too many things that have occured in the last month or so, that you are not sure of, You dont want to be trying to make longterm decisions like a wedding with so many questions in your mind. Trust your gut. Find out what is going on,

I can guarantee you one thing, no matter what you find out, whether you find out that the tuition she told you  is totally  not true, or any other thing you discover that she said that is not true, she will cry, she will have a dramatic explanation for it, which makes her seem like a victim....... just speaking from experience from previous stories i have heard.

Keep your chin up my friend, and slow down, and try to find out what is going on, before you possibly make a mistake.

2) Have you met her friends or family?
I met her Aunt and Mom and they took care of me when I was very sick for 4 days with a super flu.  Her mom came to see me from Kebawi Mindanao when she heard I was engaged to her daughter.  She had to bring with her a letter giving permission to marry that I requested for a future fiancé visa paper work.  
3) If you find out that the story about the tuition is bogus, what do you plan to do at that point?
The tuition was not totally bogus, but inflated x 2.  The 48,000 which I did not pay was really just 10,000 peso.  I did not understand this whole thing of the 48,000 inflated tuition coz if we were to marry this would not be paid anyway.

I thought it could be her way of saying,
look how much you have saved by marrying me!  
And look what I will give up to marry you, a nice cruise ship job that will take the place of being with you.  
I want you to appreciate what I have sacrificed for you coz I love you so much.

Will you forgive her if she comes up with a big song and dance about some other expenses that came up and that she was just afraid to tell you about it blah blah. It sounds to me like she is already doing a little bit of fast talking

I didn’t think she was that smart, she mostly told half truths that was easier to just inflate the truth.  I will confront her with the information I received from the Collage.  I will demand a detailed list of all the true expenses and where the money really went.   If I am not satisfied I will dump her.  If there is a chance of recovery I will see, but unlikely.  I will not know till I confront her.  I have it in writing what she asked for on the net.  She didn’t know that I could copy and paste the chat.   This will be interesting if nothing else.

One thing that you have to do , if I were you, is to set her up on CHIKKA, that way you can text to her cell phone, from your computer, that will make it somewhat easier for you to communicate with her...www.chikka.com, just enter her cell phone starting with 63.916, etc etc, as her number.
I can already contact her using AT&T for text on her cell.  She can not contact me.  Any way she is out of coverage area in the town she is in now.  Her time Wed at 11am will be our next contact.  

I did call her Aunt last night and asked how much the tuition was in school coz I said I had decided to pay for the complete tuition as I had promised.  Aunt did not know how much the tuition was which was strange as she was the one footing the bill till I came along.  

I don’t know if the tears will come, but if they do I am ready for it.

The stories check out, just everything was inflated.  I want to know were the extra money went.  My gut feeling is mixed right now.  I have to see her motivation and why?  
Two soft spots for her is that when I went to check out her tuition fees at the Collage I was told by those that knew her that she mentioned me and was excited about our marriage in July.
I did test her a little, I said I could sell the sports car I have and send her more money.  Her response was please don’t sell the car, she wanted us to keep it if possible.  

If anything, the wedding will be postponed and like you suggested find out what is going on.  Another visit in June without a wedding will be in order.

I am the victim and she will be told that through any tears.

I am slowing down and I value your advice.  

But sometimes to do nothing is already a mistake
Peter Lee

       Best of luck and please ask questions our  knowledge is your power.

  Trust is a difficult thing to establish. Most men are in the RP a couple of weeks, and it is pretty hard to establish a relationship in that time, though some actually succeed. The content of the lady's character is pretty hard to get a solid fix on sometimes, especially when you add the cultural differences to the mix. In addition, many Filipinas find themselves under heavy pressure from other family members when they have a Kano boyfriend...after all, we are all millionaires, right?
  That said, if asked, my advice would be that if she is less than 100% honest with you, dump her and run, no mattter how it hurts, because it might hurt now, but it could kill you latter.

Hi Peter,
The link has the school's address and phone number.  You can contact them about the fees your fiancee quoted.  I think those fees are not just for tuition but other expenses related to the final courses she had to take. You could ask them to fax or mail you a course prospectus, for a family member or some such thing.  If at all possible, find someone who lives in Cebu who can help you find out more about this course.  Maybe someone here on the board has relatives there who can do some snooping for you.  I understand that you are not paying for her schooling but any discrepancy in what she has told you and what you will find out would indicate she is not as truthful with you.
Trust is important but when you have doubts, it's important to clear all that before you get deeper into a relationship.  
It's rather strange that your fiancee would want to pursue a career that would take her away from you for months in a year.  That is the bigger red flag in my opinion.

Your web site you gave me was good and i called her director she knew her personally coz not many women attend there.  Without your web address you gave me i would not have found out the information i needed.  Thank you very much

Peter Lee

This is very painful for me but I will call after this weekend to find out for sure.  If you get any information please let me know.  I did promise her dad I would help her education and took over near the end of her tuition.  I promised 3500 pesos per month and some small expenses.  She did say that she was shocked about the last 2 months course excessive fee.   When I questioned it and said it was a waste of money coz we will marry she said it was ok and agreed.  I had a feeling at the time that she was showing me what she will have to give up to marry me.  It seemed important to her that she could show independance with out me so her decission to be with me would be due to love and commitment.  48,000pesos did raise a red flag inspite of bliding love.  The career was chosen before I met her and she has graduated as planned.  I came in the end of her tuition and school graduation.  All her plans for working on a cruise ship had to change.  I took it as she had to make sure of my commitment before she would let the possible new job go.  I copied the site you gave me down.  Thanks I could't find it myself.

The ATM explaination sounds reasonable, considering the difficulty, even in larger cities, of finding and ATM that's on a network with an American back.  I don't have a problem with that.

The fact that 1/2 the money is gone and in the first month bothers me.  Being very young--no, I'm not taking potshots here, you know my position ;)--and having money for possibly the first time in her life is as much a burden as luxury.  Many around her will invent reasons, along with very convincing arguments, for her to spend the money.  It may be too much pressure for her to have such a large amount of money to be responsible for.  Personally, in your situation, I would have given her a monthly stipen, rather than all the cash at once.  For someone who has never had to budget before, spreading that money out tolast a few months may be much more difficult than you realize!  Also "given money" doesn't carry the importance of money that has been earned.  If she has never held any kind of job and been responsible for budgeting the money she earns, she probably has no clue what it takes to manage that kind of money.

My advice?  Set limits.  Pick a number, keep it to yourself.  If she exceeds it, tell her there is no more.  You'll find out quickly whether or not money is the issue, trust me!

Also, in comparison--which I realize is not always fair--Gerlie refuses the smallest amout of money from me.  She works long hours for little pay, but by Filipino standards she has a pretty good job.  Because of a complication with her birth certificate, she ran into costs that we had not anticipated and had to reluctantly accpet cash from me so that we could take care of it in a more timely fashion.  Now, I trust her completely.  There is no doubt in the slightest.  She has earned and deserves my trust.  The amount of money is not staggering.  When I sent it she told me she would give me an accounting of how she spent the money I sent.  I told her it wasn't necessary, because I trusted her and the amount seemed very reasonable.  Within a week, at her insistance, we spent 1/2 and hour online going over a to the peso accounting of the money I sent.  Not that I was paying that much attention, as I said, she has earned my trust, but it was absolutely accurate. I just thought I'd share that so you could compare notes.  I'm sure others her have similar stories.

Tuition?  I have a hard time believing that tuition for anything in the Philippines costs almost $1000.00. Gerlie was in MEDICAL SCHOOL--Maybe I'm stretching here, but it would seem becoming a nurse would be more expensive than a cruise ship attendant--and according to her Tatay tuition was was P20,000 per semester.  Like Ray, I have no way of knowing what tuition in the Philippines actually is, but I have a REAL heard time believing that's a real number.  I will ask Gerlie if she can make a phone call or two and get us some info.

Red Flags? You're eyes are more open than many.  Keep 'em that way.  Personally, her asking for the money isn't as much a warning sign as how she will handle it if you don't give her the cash.  

Keep the Faith Man!

Like you, I have been very open about my triumphs and tragedies on here.  I respect the fact that you continue to post even though you have taken your share of hits.  If there anything I can do, know that I am here bro ;)

H

I don't know about the cost of seaman's school, but will try to find out. The seaman’s school itself seems like a waste of money to me, since you will be married soon and she will be living in the US. The school may be good for a Filipino wanting a well paying job on a cruise ship somewhere in the world. Does she plan on using this training to get a job on a US based cruise ship after she arrives here?

Dave H.

We discussed our plans and she agreed that it was a waste of money to do the last part of the course.  I had said to her why go through all that extra expense if we are getting married. I had the feeling that she wanted to make sure we were going to get married before she gave up her new job on a cruise ship.  It also gave me the message that she was independent and would marry me for love not because of dependency.  She didn't come out and say that but I read between the lines, it seemed important to her.  We met while she was 3/4 into her school and almost graduated.  After we decided to exclusively just see each other via engagement she had to make up her mind to let everything she had planned go and come with me or continue her career and let me go.  I asked where she could get 48,000 pesos for the final qualification for her job and she said her uncle who is an engineer on a ship would front her money.  He knows she is a good girl and would pay her back when she gets the job.  She also suggested that if the spousal visa would take almost a year she was willing to go to work and help pay for any expenses. She was not expecting to use the school for when she is here in the US.  I said that it was a good gesture but it was not necessary just yet.  I realize that love is blind and wanted some outside opinion on this high last phase of her tuition for her job.  I would regret not asking about it later and it will tell me things about her one way or the other.  I get the impression that if what she says is true they are taking advantage of these girls knowing there is limited jobs available so they up the fees to limit the amount of applications.  Oh well thanks for the come back.

As you mentioned, I thought that your fiancee had probably planned to attend this seaman school after graduation for a long time. Your relationship happened unexpectedly and quickly. Her life plans are still in the process of changing and she is wise to think about her future. I would do the same. If you were not serious, she would perhaps lose the opportunity to achieve this training and better her life. My wife is very self-supportive and proud also. She works even though there is no need for her to do so. I would check out the school and continue to keep your eyes open, as you are. We can only provide you with information and situations we have experienced or witnessed. Anyone who pretends to know the whole story one way or another about your fiancee is playing God!

Dave H.

                                           joemc
                                       
   

                                        joemc

Joe

As far as ATM's go, that is true. Your fiancee lives in the bundoks and may not have an ATM nearby. My wife has one ATM that accepts her card, that she knows of, in her hometown. It is sometimes vandalized and was the other day. She went to CDO the following day on business and had to wait to get money there. After she arrived, it took her around 10 ATM's until she found one that would dispense money. Part of the problem may have been the recent telecommunications feud between AT&T and MCI with the Philippine carriers.

Dave H.

its definitely rushing things,

Alot of the guys on this board, or who go to the phils in general get engaged in a week since they can only go there for a 2 week vacation, and its a bit of a catch 22 situation.

I have spent a total of 6 months in the phils this year and the first trip was only 3 weeks last april, and looking back at the last three trips i must say my gf was on her best behavior in April and now i see many different sides of her that i did not see before, not necessarily bad, but, people are always on their best behavior the first several months of the relationship and i must say that when the guys are coming from a different country it is easy to put on a different face while he is there.

I Have made one point very clear to my gf this whole time we have been dating, I am not supporting her, sending money etc when i am not there, and also , i am not making a commitment about the future to her in 2 wks or a month, no more than i would to a girl in the usa in that short of a period of time, I am lucky since i am able to spend more time than most guys in the phils, I have spent all my trip time with her, i have not barhopped etc , or dated around, but even then i still feel like i am not ready to make that jump.

When you start sending money to women there, to me it corrupts the process, and it makes it very difficult to tell whether the girl wants you or your  money. So i basically send nothing, If i was to marry my gf, then yes i would pay for her extended education, etc etc etc, or if i was engaged i would send money for the wedding planning etc etc, but that is WAAAAAY jumping the gun for a guy who just is starting to get to know the girl.

Anyway , it sounds like to me that this girl is not necessarily playing you, but she is acting a bit suspicous,
Then again, you are making some big mistakes and being too eager and basically offering your head up on the chopping block, Not too many women over there will stop the guy if he is acting very eager as long as he treats them well, but you are the one who has the responsibility of being cautious and not being a sugar daddy, and also taking your time and gettig to know this woman, After all, for one she is very very far away, you dont know what she does when you are gone, other than what she tells you, For another thing, you are much older than her, even more than most of us , i am 20 yrs older, but yours is even still a teenager, with much to learn about life.

All in all, i say, slow down, take your time, whats the rush, There is no harm in slowing down and stepping back and taking a look at the situation, if it is right, then it will show itself to be so,, The longer you take to get to know her, the better for both of you and your future., Look at me, i have been with my gf for a year, and im not engaged yet.
Hope this helps and did not scare you too much.

If you have doubts about trusting her, then give it more time. Don't get paranoid, but DON'T get married unless you have a VERY high degree of trust in each other.

If you agreed to pay for her education, then I guess your stuck (unless you back out).

Tip on wedding expenses: in my case, only a small portion of the total wedding cost was required in advance. The gowns had to paid half in advance and half due on delivery (about 2-1/2 months). The majority of the charges weren't due until on or after the wedding, with  small portion due as a deposit a week or two before the ceremony (reception costs, car & driver rentals, photographers, etc.).

Ray

Wondered if you knew anything about the outragious tuition fee for that last 2 months of 48,000 pesos for 2 months.  It didn't sound right to me.  If I found that there is no such fee for this tuition then I would be paranoid.  How can it be varified to ease my mind?  I am in love and it is hard to question any information she has given to me.

You better call the Concord Institute now and let us know if it's true.

Pete I'll try to call my seaman brod if there is some kind of special schooling like this....he..he...

I have no way of knowing what her actual tuition costs are and I doubt that anyone else on this forum does either. Private schools are NOT as cheap as most colleges. Is P48,000 too much? Maybe, maybe not.

Why don’t you pick up the phone and call the school to verify it? A $2 phone call may save you an ulcer or two.

Also, there is no magic formula or red flag list to check off as you go along in this process. Use your head and follow your instincts. It got you this far in life, didn’t it?

Ray