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I was in the US Consulate in Cebu.   Hear is what they gave me:

Under Philippine laws a foreign national marrying Philippine citizen must first obtain a Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage, from their respective consular office before a marriage license Is issued to the parties.   The legal capacity can be obtained either at the American Embassy in Manila or the American Consular Agency in Cebu [formerly the American Consulate].  The following are the requirements for the issuance of this document.

[A] American fiancé:

1.   U.S. Passport or birth certificate
2.   Proof of termination of prior marriage, if there is any.
3.   Permission from the appropriate unit command, if active in military duty.

Philippine fiancée:

2.   Photo ID / Student ID / Work ID [Name and photo must be shown]
3.   Birth Certificate.  If between the age of 18 and 20, a notarized written consent from the parents should also be submitted and a birth certificate from NSO
4.   Proof of termination of prior marriage, if there is any.
5.   Birth certificates of children, if applicable from NSO
6.   Evidence of valid relationship with the fiancé [e].

Both parties must come for the interview.  Applications are accepted only between 8.00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m.  The agency is open from Monday thru Friday except on holidays.  

But I kept it cool and came back a single man to ask you all for advice.  Some of you were like you throwing rotten tomatoes at me yelling “Boo!”  

So seriously I need some help on what to do.

If I pursue the fiancé visa and process the paper work which I have now all neat time limited notarized permission to marry passport notarized copies.,  The uncertainty is that I do not have a history of e mail to show.   The question on Form I-129F item 19.

19.   Your fiancé[e] has met and seen you  checked box   [yes]

Describe the circumstances under which you met.   If you have not personally met each other, explain how the relationship was established, and explain in detail any reasons you may have for requesting that the requirements that you hand your fiancé[e] must have met should not apply to you.

I was told to say:
We corresponded for 8 months then met in person on 01 12 03 in Cebu
City Philippines.

What I want to say:
We met in person on Jan 12th  03  fell in love courted for 20 days  were engaged before leaving on Feb 1st  03 in Cebu City.  We are currently corresponding using e mail and phone cards.  We plan to meet again in July 03

Do you see any problems with this?

That way in the future interview the whole truth and only the truth is said.  

[Is there a way phone cards can be used to verify calls to your fiancé for proof of correspondence?]

Is it wiser to wait a few months before I process the paper work to the INS while I build up an e mail base?  If so how long?  One month two?  I am concerned that many notarized papers may expire.  Or will it not matter so I can process the paper work right away?

The way the interview goes it seems at the end of the year there will be tons of e mail to show.   But if the interviewer is looking for time before the paper work was processed from the date applied I am out in the cold.   What say you?

Now the gale [my sweetheart the mother of my future children or the one that is going to show me hell LOL] is graduating in around May.   She can get a job on a cruise line with a year contract.   The pay is good and it will be exciting for her to want to work after graduation.   So if I pursue the fiancé visa I have to tell her to get a local job and wait, I will visit her again in July.   I can’t see another 30 days of holding hands in the Mall it would kill me LOL.   What say you?

Da other option is to go back in July with a 6 month e mail base and marry her in the Philippines.   Go back home after 21 days process the paper work for espousal visa.   All the notarized papers will have been expired and have to be redone.   This by reading your site will be twice as long to wait for her to come over.   I could still visit her every 6 months LOL while I am waiting.   She could get her cruise line job which by the way is limited to the waters of the Philippines.   And I will be able to do more than hold hands in the Mall LOL for crying out load.    Oh decisions, decisions
All this and the fact that I am not a spring chicken.  Time as we get older is more valuable.   The reason I asked for your advice on this is you may know more on what will happen with the waiting time for fiancé visa verses espousal visas with this war going on.   I kinda like you all clowning around as long as I get the straight scoop and some help.  My 7th Dan Black Belt and Gracie Jiu Jitsu can’t help me with this one.   Hope you guys got some ideas cause when I asked the fiancé last night on the chat what to do after 2 hours of stressful thinking she just wanted to change the subject and say whatever I decide she will know is best.   HELP!

It's up to you honey:-))))))))

I had pen pals and also met filipina's in the past that always agreed to what I said no matter how silly it was.  That's a bad sign peter:-)))))))) Peter what is she graduating with? Maybe being on a cruise ship with all those guys might be no good hahhahhahha I am just teasing you Peter. Just take it slow and think with the right head.
How long you been praticing bjj? To those of you why don't know what BJJ is , it is  not a bad thing, it stands for Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Maybe we can even train in bjj in Cebu Peter, and  if you get tired of holding your gf hand in the mall you can roll with me on the ground hahhahha Just trying to make you smile Peter. I want to go and train with top team some day in brazil for a holiday. Maybe this summer. An off beat question peter have you seen any of sperries tapes? Thier great stuff. Who do you train bjjj with in FL Carlson Gracie? Lsst BJJ question for you Peter is thier any places to roll in Cebu? I want to do some training thier. Maybe a Judo school right? As a side joke between bjj guys Peter have you gotten your gf to practice the triangle choke on you yet:-)))))))) It is a good move for a young lady to know right? Well in case of rape I guesss. Oh before I go is thier more houses to rent for that cheap thier like you rented? Would love to rent it for that cheap, let me know if it is still open  to rent. Got to go Peter. wish you all the best my friend.

If I was sure, I would marry in the Philippines and bring her on a K-3 Visa. I would give her a very nice wedding in her home church in front of family and friends. I would spend time together as husband and wife on a romantic honeymoon. Then I would return home and send in the Visa paperwork.

My story: I had gone to the Philippines with the intent of marrying on my second trip, if all worked out. It did and we became engaged. Due to the fact that I had been previously married in the Catholic Church (divorced), couldn't return for at least 8 months, and the long processing times for the spousal visa at the time (14+ months), we decided to take the fiancee route (3-6 months). Like most Filipinas my wife had always dreamed of a nice Catholic Filipino wedding at her church, in front of her relatives and friends. Because she loves me, she accepted our situation and never complains. We married in a very small civil service in the US after she arrived on a Fiancee Visa. She has returned twice (there now) to attend her sisters' Catholic weddings. Seeing the joy in her eyes in the pictures and video and hearing her talk about the weddings brings tears to my eyes, knowing that I could not give her that. Sometimes Filipinas tell her that since she didn't marry in the Catholic Church, she is not really married. I know it upsets and hurts her. But she keeps it too herself and tells me that she loves me and that it doesn't matter to her. One day I hope to be able to give her the wedding she deserves, in her Catholic Church in the Philippines, with her family, friends, and neighbors present.

"It's up to you!" If she is like most Filipinas...that means "I would like to be married in front of my family and friends at my church in the Philippines, but I will let you decide." Peter, ask your fiancee what her dream wedding would be like...hypothetically...if she could choose. Probably the same as my wife's answer. The family will be happy and proud to be a part of the wedding and to know it is legit. She will be leaving her family and home to join you, which is a much bigger sacrifice than we make. Good Luck!

Dave H.

Wow Dave thanks,

You know I had the same feeling about it as you do but I didn’t want to think about it.  My fiancé has an older married sister who married two years ago.   I have not ask her yet about that marriage, now I will and I am getting closer to making a decision thanks to your letter and sharing your past experience.  Her Dad is about the same age as me and hasn’t seen me yet.   I have to question her to see if that would be a problem other wise it sounds like a dream come true marriage for her.   You are right though she will not tell me later how disappointed she will be later in life missing family for her wedding.   But I gotta tell ya my Mom wants to see my wedding here in a nice ceremony like my sister’s wedding.    It will not be the same for her as her family will not be present but after all she will spend more time in the future with my sister and Mom than with her family.  The cruise idea is also the same thinking as me.   There are so many cruises here in Florida, and reasonable priced too.    This is the stressful conversation I had with her a week ago, to marry in the Philippines and have a longer wait for her to come here or go the fiancé visa route which would be quicker but marry here in the Philippines.   I had already gone to much trouble to gain the trust of her parents so she could travel here by herself unmarried for the fiancé visa.  But now I am here, to sit back and think of what I am doing to talk to friends and share my decision making.   Like you indicated this is a one shot deal that only comes once for us.   I don’t want to blow it.   Her school is over in May her birthday is in June.   It would be a nice birthday and wedding and I would not have to marry a teenager LOL.  A cruise honeymoon would be less expensive there than here and I could tour the Islands with her.   Sounds good gives me time to think more get to know each other more build up an e mail bank of letters.   {I am told that you need them to show a legitimate marriage for her interview for the spousal visa}  Also I was thinking about the age difference in the eyes of the interviewer.  If we are already married it may be an easier way to go to be accepted.   I was told that for the espousal interview there are two interviews.   With the Texas INS frozen they may take the same time any way I don’t know about these things.   And if I have to go over there again and hold hands in the Mall for another 21 days I will feel I am in Jr. High again LOL.  Alas if I go this route all the hard work on certifications and notary will have expired and have to be done all over again.   Oh well !  I guess I have to study the K-3 visa process now, thanks.

Email me at Dhmltn@aol.com and I will share a little more personal info.

Dave H.

I do respect the fact that you are asking questions, listening and taking it all in! Most people seeking advice don't react that way here, so you are one of the very few. I know that you will weigh all of the advice, make up your own mind, and go with what is right for you. You have my sincere respect and wishes for happiness! It can be done! I hope to be congratulating you in the near future!

Dave H.

At least you're on the path! Best wishes!

Dave H.

Go forward in your quest young man and don't let the naysayers disuade you.  Just be honest with yourself and your chosen and be open enough to see red flags and be willing to walk away if the red flags tip the scales to the point that the relationship is a mistake.

For the next visit the only thing that is required from me is a notorized spousal support form, 3 years of tax returns and W-2s, and a letter from my employer.  As far as I know no letters, emails or photographs are necessary.  But this is for Colombia, I can't speak for your location.  Also, I am sending along all those things anyway with my wife just in case.

I will keep in touch here let you know what is happening

I am very happy for you. Best wishes to you and your fiancee!

I think there are probably many more "window shoppers" on the Latin Board than here. Some guys and a gal have been scammed and badly hurt here. We just HATE to see it happen to anyone else. No doubt, we are cautious and speak out when we see some of the same red flags popping up!

Dave H.

The fact that you're thinking with the big head, are open to advice, and have a positive attitude puts you way ahead in this quest.

There are MANY little head thinkers when it comes to marrying women from Third World countries in my opinion. I live near some. Who can really blame them? Some of these ladies have "it" and know how to use "it!" A guy that can't get a "3" back home, suddenly finds himself at the center of a group of 9's and 10's competing for his "love and affection." Other guys have no problems dating attractive women, but fall for the exotic beauty and "old-fashioned innocence" of some of these ladies. It's not hard to do! Some ladies are willing to fake love for a free ride to the US and plan a divorce ASAP. Some have Filipino boyfriends and plan to keep them (maybe petition them after a divorce). Others will dump the Filipino for a Kano with money.   I know these ladies. Everyone here knows horror stories first hand. Some people choose to ignore the red flags (we can't help them), other times they are not visible at first. The reason we talk so much about "time" is that eventually red flags tend to pop up if they are there. It's usually hard to maintain consistent lying for a long time. Sometimes both partners are honest, but the red flags are compatibility issues. Any marriage can be difficult. An inter cultural marriage can be challenging at times with cultural misunderstandings. No point starting out in a scam! Don't get me wrong, there are many nice Filipinas out there. But, I would take my time (several visits), avoid ones that overly flatter you (especially in public), are over affectionate in public, expect expensive gifts, money, and are in a hurry to come to the US. I know from your posts that your lady has already passed these "tests." I hope your flags are all green! Good Luck!

Dave H.

Now get off of the computer and go finish your honeymoon (ROFL)

Ray

Do you know what i am getting into LOL

Dave H.

- Jeff

THANKS!!! I'm ROFLMAOCUMLTNTPUMD!!!! (Coughing Up My Lungs Trying Not To Puke Up My Dinner) I have tears rolling down my face.

One line I would change: "because when you get to drinking...you put me places that's really stinkin'" :o)))

Dave H.

The point wasn’t so much that you are getting married in a hurry, but that you got engaged to marry in a hurry. Did you promise to marry her, or did you merely agree to file the papers while you are giving it more serious thought? Keep in mind that if you promised to marry her, most of the Philippines knows about it already. If you should change your mind and back out later, the young lady will lose face and will suffer much disgrace. She can really get hurt emotionally, so be careful.

Yes, you’re correct. You could have married her over there in 10 days. I think I know how you are feeling. You are getting old and this may be your last chance to land a really nice young wife who will treat you right. You don’t want to wait too long or you may lose this golden opportunity. Fair enough, but please don’t forget about her wants and needs. She will be counting on you to do the right thing and make her happy also.

I got the legal capacity affidavit at the Cebu consulate myself. They run things a little differently in Cebu. Is John Domingo still the consular officer there? He requires the fiancee to be there also and he can be a little rough sometimes. In Manila, they don’t need your fiancée with you. You just fill out a form, pay your $55, and swear an oath that you can legally marry. I have never heard of a requirement for children’s birth certificates or proof of relationship to get the affidavit. Also, there is no Philippine requirement for an NSO BC to be married. The Local Civil Registrar copy is good enough. It is possible to get the 10 day wait waived, but you have to be very careful and do it right.

DO NOT listen to anyone who advises you to lie on your application. Always be 100% truthful on the INS forms or it will come back to bite you in the ass. E-mail is O.K., but I recommend that you get some snail mails going. What they will want to see for proof of relationship is a sampling of letters in the original envelope with post marks, one or two from the start of your correspondence, some from the middle, and some more recent. Most phone cards don’t provide any kind of record at all. I suggest that you call her every week or two with one of the long distance services that will show up on your phone bill every month. I used 10-10-220, but there are many others. That will give you a phone record and you can use phone cards the rest of the time to save some bucks.

I answered some of your questions on fiancée vs spousal visa below in another thread. Don’t put too much emphasis on the difference in waiting times, because right now they are running about the same for both. There is nothing wrong with holding hands before you marry. If you really feel the need to “try her out” (pardon the expression) first, then remember that she is a very young possibly somewhat naïve girl who is trusting you to do what is right, just as her family is trusting you. Besides, learning to appreciate each other’s needs and desires will be a big part of the newlywed period and a lot of fun also :-). Go see her father in person and ask him for permission to marry his daughter. If she has an older brother, also ask him first. This will show respect for their traditions and also score points for your side. Start to correspond with her family members now so they will feel comfortable with sending their precious daughter off to a strange land to start a whole new life.

One more thing. DO NOT accept the standard “whatever you decide is best” line. Draw out her TRUE feelings and discuss everything in advance. If you don’t have a clue what she really wants, then you are asking for disaster. Make her speak her mind, but do it gently because it’s sometimes part of their culture for the woman to agree too readily with the man.

Ray

I gotta tell ya that the muddy waters are getting clearer thanks to you and the others.   Some of the things you wrote I knew and reinforced my thinking some were absolutely new.   The engagement was to absolutely cut ties with all the other gals and e mails and concentrate on just one.   Yes I did ask her to marry me and I understand about her loosing face if I back down.   But I meant what I said to her and I will go through with it the proper way.   Any red flags will be on her part not mine, I didn’t see any yet but if they come up I am sure I will have plenty of feedback from this Board if they do.  Coz when you in LOVE you can be blinded by the light and red flags hard to see.   Personally the older they are the more chance of red flags.   At least with a young one I know what I am going to be in for LOL.   Not to many surprises I mean.   I have already used a lot of your letter when I chatted with her last so thanks.   It is like looking at a road map and having some one tell you your destination coz they have been there already.   She doesn’t have a brother only one older sister married 23 and two younger sisters.11 and 14.    This sending a letter to her parents is a good idea.   Thanx for the feedback

I'm convinced that you are serious about this young lady, so I won't try to change your mind again (LOL).

For the sake of discussion, I would have to disagree somewhat with your assertion that there is more chance of red flags with an older woman. Yes, an older woman will usually be more set in her ways and her character will be more fully developed than you’re likely to find with a younger one, so what you see is more likely to be what you get over the long haul.

With a very young woman, you may know what you're getting today, but you have much less of an idea what you'll end up with a few years down the road. The younger ones are likely to be more impressionable, and their character hasn’t had as much time to develop. From my experience, if you start out with a young wife, you probably won’t know what you ended up with until maybe 5-10 years or more down the road. By that time, it may be too late to start over again :-)

You also said “Any red flags will be on her part not mine”. Don’t be so sure about that. If you picked a good one, then she will also be using her head and evaluating your character before she makes the big leap. I can already see some red flags that she should be paying attention to. For example, you said in an earlier post “…there was no foam on the bed and I thought our prisons back home are more comfortable” So, what were you in for anyway? (ROFL)

Ray

Question: What’s “bullard”?

Ray

    About CFO classes, it is much dangerous for Filipina going on another country..

Especially the last paragraph, I forgot about that aspect!

H

Are you going to get married in the US?  Tess and I might be able to fly in for it...hint-hint.

Stephen

I am working on the Chronicles right now, do in theatres and websites globally soon!  LOL

Yes, we are getting married here :)  If you and Tess have an interest, you are MORE than welcome to attend :)  Mares says, I can't keep her and Dan away if I tried :P  LOL  Dannise is all ready to be a flower girl :D

Pictures are also in the works ;)

Give my regards to your lovely wife! :D

Keep the Faith

H

I can't wait to see the Howard Chronicles at a theater near me! :o)

Keep me posted on the wedding. I want to write the vows. ;o))) Maybe you can sing them. He he he!

Big D.

Personally, I would just be honest at the interview.  The circumstances are as they are.  I'm sure yours won't be the craziest story they have heard :P  Besides you have absolutely no proof of a relationship prior to your trip to the Philippines, Jan. of this year.  As long as you arm her with copies--NEVER send originals unless the absolutely, without a doubt, jump up on a desk and DEMAND them.  Even then, think twice!!!  EVERYTHING gets lost over there!--of your emails and transcripts of your chats, I can't imagine that a few months will make a difference at that time.  Then again, you could always play dumb and say that you didn't keep the initial correspondence--the ficticious 8 months--because you weren't sure until you met her in person.  The choice is yours, but personally I am a bad liar, so I shy away from cmoplete untruths :P  When in doubt, play dumb and plead "Kano" :P  LOL

As far as the rest of your plan, you make a good point.  Yours is just a less traveled path than most of ours.  the concern for both of you is real.  We ARE good guys :)

You might wait a few weeks or a month.  Really think it over, if you still feel the same way, go through with it.  You know yourself better than any of us, if you're positive now, follow your heart.  When my mind has been made up no one here has been able to change it.  Not right away anyway :P  lol  Everyone has their own process and their own time table, go by yours.  In the end you only have to answer to you, your mahal and your maker :)  Just know that if you submit now and find resons not to go through with it, you will have more to do than just ignore the Visa to stop the process.  At least I believe you will.  Others would know more than I.

Lastly, the Hell is real.  To name a few that are still around, Hum and I have been to Hell and back!!!  His story is his to tell and mine is available via email, out of respect to my fiancee who reads and occaisionally remembers her passowrd here and posts :P  LOL  My email is listed.  Email me and ask anything you want, I have nothing to hide :P  Besides a lot of it is in the archives!  LOL

Keep the Faith!

H