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After 3 years chasing girls from Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, I quit!

I was going to meet my Russian squeeze of 3 years, and countless visits in many countries including her own.  We were to meet in the Med on the 27th, and spend New Years together, and get to know each other even better....which already, I fealt was substantial.  I had told her that after many visits and 6 inches of emails, I was ready to pull the trigger, and she was thrilled.  Then we began discussing paperwork and what she should bring for my K1 filing when I returned, and I said I would need her to think about a prenup (marriage contract as they call it) and that I couldn't get married without one.  I spelled out that my house (that I had already  repurchased from my ex 12 years back, although she had paid nothing for it) would remain mine, and my business, cars, other assets.  She would be paid $5000 per year for every year we were together should the marriage fail.  I expected her to be happy.  Instead, I was told that my house should only remain in "my column" for one year, when, thereby, it should become "ours" so she wouldn't become "homeless" should things go wrong.  I said that her house in Russia, and her dacha would remain hers, that her daughter would live in, run, rent them, and I wasn't asking her to sell them and give me the cash, and she'd always have a home there, as well as here.  More arguments, accusations, claiming I only counted cash, and not love.  I said I was not 16 any more, and needed to seperate love from money.  She said she was in her mid 40's, had had one husband of 22 years, wasn't looking for a short term relationship/marriage, etc., etc.  Well, anyway, it has ended....now with her apologizing, saying she mis-understood, that her language skills had deserted her, (bull...plus her daughter is fluent) and she began backpedling, trying to fix the damage done.  Mind you, the assets are substantial, and she only found out when she asked last week...and I told her what things were worth....house, Ferrari, Porsche, Shelby, business, income per year, etc.  

I just wanted to tell my story's end, having been here for a while, and been a "participant" in the process 2 years before I ever knew this site existed.  I have been the most cautious, prudent student of the MOB process, and I was disappointed in the end.  

I will say it once more.  Look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be.  Look for character in another person.  (That's who you are, when no one is looking.)  Anyone can be fooled.  Trust your first instincts...like your teachers told you....don't change your answers in a multiple choice test, as your first instincts were the ones to follow.  And...look at what "she" is able to do, then, what she is "likely" to do.  Actually, these are good rules to follow in life, in any situation!!!

What will I do now?  I have only met one American woman in 30 years who has "character" and I will chase her.  I'm back home, without the nightmarish paperwork to file, the encumberance of a 10 year liability should the Feds draw down on a failed relationship, even though I was willing to do so.   I feel free to build my plane, race my cars, spend my money foolishly if I choose, without being a counselor, priest, babysitter.  So....life has gotten a little simpler for me, and I'm happy for it.  

I may "pop in" from time to time.  There are 2 on this board who know me, who I would love to meet some day.  KingDante and our good friend/banned Mark, I would advise "to keep their powder dry"....all others I wish the best of luck.

All the Best, God Bless, and Good Hunting.

Your Very Own "Meadowlark Leamon."    

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

We can go round in circles forever trying to understand and justify the actions of the other party, especially if we don't want to believe what is apparent. After everything I have seen, my personal view is that anyone expecting to go into a marriage on the basis that they stand to make a profit financially from its demise, and who confirms this position by protesting at the prospect of not making (much) profit in that event, is a red flag.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

From what little I know of you, reading about you would lead me to advise you to look for ladies in the Scandanavian countries. You might find them to your liking.
Good luck in your future pursuits wherever they are.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I am not going to argue with your reasons, but if I may I would like to reply with some thoughts from her point of view.

A Russian woman of her age (42) is looking for long term security....she is looking for someone to take care of her into old age. Russia is not going to do this for her, where the average pension is $50-$60 per month. If her children cannot support her then she will be just another babushka out peddling flowers at the Metro station. There will be nothing for her to return home to...the Russian economy is improving...but it appears only the "new" Russians are enjoying it, the elderly are pushed out of the job market when they become of pension age (after 15 years of work).
 
This woman also wants a better life for her children, I have yet to meet a young adult raised in the FSU, living here in USA that wants to return to Russia...not even for vacation. The opportunities are endless here for them, especially if they are smart kids (like my stepson) that easily climb up the career ladder a little faster and become successful.

I can understand her wanting to protect herself by asking for more money in case the marriage goes bad, believe me when I say that these women have "knowledge" of the lucrative divorce settlements given in this country....many of these women have support groups in place the day they step foot on U.S soil to advise them of all legal and lifestyle problems....on both sides of the globe.

I am not an authority on this subject, but I might add that as a condition of AOS, I had to sign a document that declared in the event my Russian wife of 2 years and I get a divorce...It was my responsibility for financial support of her for 10 years after AOS, in the amount of $1200 per month here in California. I also do not know if it stands up to court scrutiny but I do know these women all know about it. I suspect that if any Russian woman is of able body and does not have a language barrier, that amount will be her burden to support herself and not your burden. The reason for this support period is because she will not be allowed to apply for government support (welfare) for 10 years.

... in response to Your forgetting one thing...., posted by Apk1 on Dec 12, 2003

$12,000 per year for 10 years = $120,000

If you married an AW for a few years and it failed, you would never have that expense.

... in response to very interesting, posted by thesearch on Dec 12, 2003

My ex tried for $48,600 plus my house after 2 months of being married. I agree with globe, if she's in it for the money then she needs to go away.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I totally understand.

Of course you know best what took place and everyone else here can only throw their two cents in based upon their perception - their perception of what - probably more of their own past experiences as the few words of yours they have to go on just can not transfer the reality of your experience.

But even I have a feeling about all of this. First of all, you have from what I can tell gone about all of this pursuit of a FSU woman in the correct way. You even picked a woman who was close to your own age. I would guess closer than anyone else on this board. Being a man who has fared well in the financial world, you could have used that unwisely to get any age woman you desired. So, for these things, you already have my respect.

I will say that a few of your past posts did leave me with thoughts that you were not really sure if you wanted to get married that much. I had no idea what I was picking up on - it just hit me that way.

Now that is certainly a lot better than a guy who has to get married to feel whole as that type of guy will move forward when there are red flags all over the place that should be telling him - stop - wait etc.

So, if you really get the feeling that this lady is more interested in money than you - I would do the same as you.  However, I will have to agree with KenC that misunderstandings happen very easily with these ladies. I know from personal experience --  woa - could I tell you a few stories about that but -- the bottom line is that this lady may not be after your money at all.

The bottom line is also that if you were really taken by this lady, then I would guess, suspect that in the back of your head - the part you are not telling us or her is that although you have openly closed this there may be a part of you still willing to evaluate her wondering what the total truth of it all is. And, there is a remote possibility that it is not over.

I wish you the best.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Good for you! I mean it's too bad it didn't work out, but you have definitely spared yourself lots of grief and hassle... and maybe much worse. I think you already have a great life and that marrying this woman will only result in a loss of considerable freedom and endless hassles. The American woman you mentioned sounds interesting (with character). Yeah, go for it. That makes much more sense.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I watched the Globetrotters whenever I could. Meadowlark Lemon was one of my favorite Globetrotters. With that said, maybe you could put your assets into an entity where you have control and no one can touch them. Control is just as good as owning but even better, removes you from any liability and each entity is seperate. Find a good lawyer who is an expert in this area. I am not a lawyer, but I am sure you had dealings with lawyers in the past and can find a good one. Prenup is a safe bet. Hope this helps. Take care and god bless.
JoeC

... in response to Re: I'm Out of the Game..........Future ..., posted by JoeC2003 on Dec 10, 2003

[This message has been edited by Lynn]

Bravo on "Control is just as good as owning but even better, removes you from any liability and each entity is seperate."

But why would you want to use a lawyer? Anything a lawyer creates is under "statutory law" which is created by the corporate government/BAR---anything created under statutory law is controled by statutory law and may be broken by same.

By asserting one's self as a "flesh and blood person" not a corporate entity "US Citizen" you are garanteed the "RIGHT" to contract under the "organic" Constitution for the united States of America. This would be under "common law", which was the basis for the Constitution and runs pretty much concurrently with the Uniform Commercial Code (which "is" what our courts are run under----don't take my word for it do a little research). In fact it does no good to assert your "Constitutional Rights" in court [actually, judge's chambers---see Black's Law dictionary under "Chamber"], one should be reserving their rights under the UCC.

I think it was Joe Kennedy that said "Own nothing, control everything"

... in response to Re: Re: I'm Out of the Game..........Fut..., posted by Lynn on Dec 11, 2003

Well said and stated.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Globetrotte sorry to hear about that. I can understand where you are coming. HOwever I'm from almost a polar opposite. I'm very much middle class & NOT affluent as most are in this board from what I can perceive. I'm a musician thus a calling not considered desirable by many unless you are one of the less than 1% who happen to make it. Having played in a "big" band & realized the scam they run I have decided to continue teaching. Having said that I do own 2 properties albeit very modest ones. The thing is they are paid for & mine. Whereas I don't own a Shelby, Ferrari or Porsche (though I'd like) I own a modest 97 Plymouth Breeze which also is PAID for. I am very blessed to be able to do what I like. My bills are also very low as well so I guess I'm blessed in doing what I love. I made ALL THIS very clear to ALL ladies whom I corresponded with. Automatically many removed themselves from corresponding with me based on THAT solely. I think that's GREAT!! No misunderstanding there. I can understand a lady wanting stability they deserve that. I have that, however I dont have LUXURY. AT least not now. I will be transferring some assets from real estate to stocks as the market is poised for an 80's style boom imho. Bottom line my wife knew what she was gettng into & loved me regardless. I was blessed that when I married my first wife she REFUSED to sign a pre nup & told me she was marrying me for ME & NOT for the little I own (I'm blessed my real estate is commercial a BIG +). When we decided to part amicably she actually HONORED our agreement. She took NOTHING from me. As a matter of fact we processed our divorce papers WITHOUT the use of an attorney. Diana my current wife was the one who mentioned a prenup simply because of fears put into her. & The only thing she wanted was custody of any children should we split up. I guess I'm grateful for my situation in that I don't have to worry about that. But reading your post I could see how having such an abundance of blessings could turn into a liabiliy as you might not know who to trust or in a "normal" situation such as this in asking for a pre nup you could be perceived as the bad guy. However I think your demand was FAIR.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I understand where you are coming from, Globetrotter. Your principle is that, should the marriage fail, neither party will come out of it in significantly different circumstances than when they went in. You would still hold all your assets, and she would be compensated proportionately for giving up whatever it is she's giving up in Russia (does she have a good job?)

I would suggest calculating her compensation on a sliding scale. If you separated after one year, she will not yet have put down strong roots in the U.S., and it would be relatively easy for her to go home and pick up where she left off. Also, separation after just one year could also be due to questionable motives from either party for getting together in the first place. Taking these considerations into account, $5000 should be quite enough.

However, if you separated after 10 years, it would be fair to say that both parties came into it with the best of intentions and probably gave it their best shot. Also, after 10 years, having put down roots in the U.S. and loosened her ties with her homeland, going back would be much more difficult; it could even be that she would end up worse off than if she'd never left. In that scenario, 10 x $5000 is probably inadequate. On the other hand, why should she expect to take half of your hard earned assets? Somewhere between $100 and $150,000 would seem more reasonable.  

So, I would suggest $5000 after 1 year, increasing in annual increments of say $1000 ($6000 for year 2, $7000 year 3 etc) up to a ceiling of between $100,000 and $150,000. The amount increased annually, in line with her credibility which also increases with every year you stay together.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I agree with your decision to end the relationship but not the search if that's what you want. I think you should have talked about the prenup earlier though. You likely would have had as much argument from a lady from the US on this topic. A friend of mine recently told me I need to not look elsewhere for a wife and just get some "home grown American grief".

A few years ago I bought my ex out of my house. My girlfriend at the time asked if I was going to put her name on the title...that pretty much told me in an instant what her intent was. Look at it like this, you learned what her intent was before she had legal recourse to take what she could. I don't think you should end your search but again I agree with ending this relationship though I understand it isn't easy; from an emotional perspective.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

stay married to you for 5 years, you would only give her $25K?  Is that all SHE thought she was going to get?  After 5 years, buddy, you'd be paying her a LOT more money than that in alimony.  You should have made it clear that the $5K per year amount was only EXTRA money, not the divorce settlement.  Of course she was upset.  ANY woman would be, if she thought that 5 years of her life with you were only worth a total of $25K.  Your offer was patently absurd.

Stevo

... in response to I don't get it.  Are you saying that if ..., posted by Stevo on Dec 9, 2003

Not only are you comments wrong as well as useless, we know you love to incite.  Aren't you one of the boys that married a hottie young enough to be your daughter?  Save lots of money....you're gonna need it!

... in response to Re: I don't get it.  Are you saying that..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 10, 2003

Marry a woman who will contribute to your financial future. One that has an education with good job prospects. One that could actually owe you money in a divorce settlement.
 There are many women who a man could help to make a decent wage here in the USA.
 Now I sound like an American woman who intends to make out on your good fortune.

... in response to Re: I don't get it.  Are you saying that..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 10, 2003

Sounds like you want a marriage with no downside risk and you can't have it that way.  I think the standard deal should be more like: Let me keep what I started with and we'll splint it 50/50 from then on and I get to keep any inheritances.  It gets more complicated with a business since you can't let your partners get screwed in a divorce situation.  You should have tried to make the prenup situation and the reasons for it clear early on especially from the business standpoint.  I think the EE women have a hard time grasping the significance and just think we're greedy.  

As rich as you guys talk, $25k should be a drop in the bucket.  $25k is a new tile roof for the garage of your mansion or the price of one of your used cars.  Is happiness worth more that one of your pricey toys?

... in response to Re: I don't get it.  Are you saying that..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 10, 2003

ggg

... in response to Re: I don't get it.  Are you saying that..., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 10, 2003

ggg

... in response to I don't get it.  Are you saying that if ..., posted by Stevo on Dec 9, 2003

..you livin in the dark ages there Stevo? It's 2004 buddy, almost no one pays alimony any more. At least no one who doesn't have Pee Wee Herman as a lawyer.

Just because puttin up with a guy like you for 5 years makes 25Gs look like chicken feed doesn't mean it crosses over to his situation. ;)

... in response to Alimony?...., posted by LP on Dec 10, 2003

ggg

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I agree completely with your feelings and actions.  I think I would have made the same conclusions and decisions that you did.

But there are a lot of variables at work here.

One feels that if it were true love, that the woman would just agree to anything that you proposed since she wasn't really being asked to kick in any money such as for an investment, etc.  The $5,000 you offered would probably be more than she made on a yearly basis, so in worst case scenario for her, she would be leading a much better life with you for X years, and then have her net worth increase by 5,000X in case of divorce.  Not a bad investment at all for her.

But, on the other hand, some of the guys have a point that there are some advantages to having a woman around who will just not agree to anything, at least the first time around.  It shows a certain savy which would serve you well when you think of husband and wife as being partners.  Maybe she wouldn't be directly involved in your business, but a woman who is intelligent and strong willed can still be a big asset in helping manage the family affairs from minor things such as supervising the plumbers, etc., to helping you woo clients at dinner parties, etc.

But still, I would agree with your actions.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I'm sorry to hear the news friend. You were smart to act the way you did and hopefully your good times in life will return to you in the near future.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I dont know if you mentioned it beforehand or just dropped it like a bombshell, but NO one likes the idea of a prenup, even if they understand that it is a nessisary evil. For her especially, it smacks of control, doubt, lack of trust, expectation of failure, all of those nagging fears she goes to sleep with at night. You would not believe what goes through those women's heads when time gets short. You have the overwhelming advantage here, and she knows it - Lord it over her and she will resent it.

That being said, you have a right to ask for a prenup, and I'd have one too if I had that much to lose.

I don't know all of the details,obviously, but the reaction that you posted would seem to be normal under the circumstances. I would have little respect for a spouse who would blithely sign whatever I put in front of her.

Was giving up a relief? It sure would have been when I was doing this. It's really easy to find an excuse to NOT do this crazy thing and go that last mile - But I'm not so sure I would give up a two year investment on the basis of one bad night.

Either way, good luck. you are an old hand around here and will be missed.

... in response to Re: I'm Out of the Game...................., posted by Ken W on Dec 9, 2003

No, it is not a relief to quit, but a quiet sadness, kind of like a divorce you never wanted.  The paperwork never scared me as I export equipment all over the world.  Try getting permission to export with customs and excise, State Dept. approvals...that's tough.  And, it has not been two years, but three.

She was well aware of my need for a prenup as I described my divorce to her.  She was aware of the amazing rights she would have once here...more than me, thus the need to level the playing field.  A car title would have been in her name for openers.  I don't plan on living here forever, so the next place I buy, she would have been on the title document, and she knew this.  

So, yea, I'm disappointed but not depressed.  Life goes on.

... in response to Re: Re: I'm Out of the Game................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Well, sorry to hear that Globe...Don't give up on international dating though, whether it be Eastern Europe, Germany, South America or whatever. At least you understand that the world of women doesn't stop at the county line, which is a mental leap 99% of the world never makes :)

Again, good luck man

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...the two guys you wanna meet are KingDante and The PansyMan? A pig farmer and a guy who is the antithesis of masculinity? Or was the "powder dry" comment separate?

About the other thing, good for you. However, I bet you're  simply over reacting to the situation and you'll feel different in a few weeks. I'll even hazard a guess things will turn out quite different in time. Even guys like us have to sometimes struggle to prevent emotion from overuling intellect. We're all afraid...it's the human condition.

If not, forget most advice offered here and do what you think is right for you...not any woman. And remember, there are plenty of fish in the MOB sea. Regardless of what you may now think this woman is not special (no woman is) and there are plenty more where she came from. Remember, they're all pink inside. No woman is worth chasing beyond a certain hassle, there are too many to think otherwise. And none are worth dying for. (killing for yes, dying for...no ;)

Keep in mind you'll have to protect yourself from *any* woman you marry, MOB or domestic. Stick to your prenup guns though, you can be flexible to some extent and try to be fair. If you live in a community property state all the better.

Until then do as I: Find a decent one to shack up with, enjoy life, and keep your hand in the search...things will work out at some point. Keep one eye open and above all else don't devote an excessive amount of your life to finding a mate, it's the worst attribute of MOB I can think of and the greatest disservice you can do yourself in general. There is no compelling reason to legally have some woman's hooks in you. It's nice, but not essential for a fulfilling life. You're an abberation among MOB guys and although many are too desparate to understand this viewpoint I think you do.

But I'll bet you're not finished with this particular woman just quite yet. Me thinks I'll wait a few weeks before I accept this tale of woe as chiseled in stone...

... in response to I'm confused...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

n/t

... in response to and you said "I was inflamatory&quo..., posted by jrm on Dec 11, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...nah, it'd just go to waste.

... in response to I'm confused...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

No, my friend, those 2 I don't want to meet.  And yes the powder dry comment was for them, as jerks will have a rough go.  There are only 2 here who I have corresponded with who know my email, or who I have spoken to.  Those 2 I would like to meet.

I was made to feel as though I needed to buy my squeeze.  Our correspondence went back and forth for a week.  She told of a guy who died and somehow his RW was not included in his will, and she was homeless.  I told her that she and her girls would be the sole beneficiary of my entire estate should I buy the farm before I plan to exit stage right, and that a will took care of this.  Yea, she would have known I wasn't poor because of how I travel, things I bought for her, giving her traveling money before she left to meet me, etc.

I get a kick from those who advise "bumping up" the $5K/year offer if the worst happens.  So all....should I bump up to maybe $15K, $20K/year, so my feet can be held to the fire because she now has more than anyone else?  I think I should be the prize, how I think, act, protect, love, my honesty, verasity.  There is more to me than my bankbook and balance sheet.  If you think otherwise about yourselves, you have more problems than I can correct.

Over reacting?  No, just a bad feeling in the gut which makes me question the whole idea of marrying someone so far removed from our way of life.  She understood everything I was asking for and why, but wanted more.  I never would have guessed.  I am a nice guy who is fair and loving and would include her in everything I did, or not attend a race on a Sunday to go to a flower show she wanted to go to.

She wouldn't have been asked to work, but would have had the choice.  She is a musician and business woman and I think she would have had her own money from her ventures in short order.  This would have been her money to do anything she wanted, as I would contribute everything needed for everyday living.  This was also discussed.  My house is priced like yours and I can't see giving half to anyone.

I am not a lonely guy, have a huge family and wide circle of friends, more interests than anyone and a business that takes me anywhere and everywhere in the world, and the pay ain't bad either, and soon to be offshore.  So, desperate?...not a chance.  An no emotion that's overruling intellect, but a bad feeling of things to come.

So, don't make a bet that this decision isn't carved in stone.  As far as looking again out "East"...those days are over.  I'll never say never but the effort won't be there.
It's been fun hanging around in the greatest singles bar ever known, but I'm done with it.

Nobody can make one happy, as that is up to us.  Someone can sure add to your happiness, and that's the reason for the search.

LP, your posts are great and make one think.  You write much better than I, with much more humor.  Just remember..
Do Justly, show mercy, walk humbly.

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

you are dead on do not second guess yourself

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Globe,
This may be my last post on this subject and you may not even read this one.  Negotiating a prenupt is a very difficult procedure.  On one hand, the two people love each other (that should be a given).  A big part of love is trust.  Now how do you say to each other:I love you completely but I do not trust you enough to risk my future financial well being?  This is not to say you shouldn't have a prenupt.  You would be foolish not to have one in your circumstance.  But, you shouldn't ask her to trust you blindly as you have chosen not to trust her in this way either.  There is no good way for her to say "this is not fair" without appearing as a money hungry beetch.  You say, "I am a nice guy who is fair and loving and would include her in everything I did".  How does she know that for sure?  Where is HER safety net should the marriage not play out as you say?

You and others here assume that at $5K/YR, she should be set to begin her life anew back in Russia.  What if she doesn't want to go back?  Would the $5K/YR fly with an American woman?  I think not.  Don't look down at her for talking dollars and cents as it is the subject YOU BROUGHT UP.  She is trying to play your game by your rules.  This is a very difficult process, have some patience.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: I'm confused...., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by Philb]

for eloquently stating there are at least two sides to every story (or maybe I should say two perspectives)

... in response to Re: Re: I'm confused...., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Ken, there is no way this cannot be fair to the woman.  She has relatively nothing.  So anything she gets will be like frosting.  She will have all expenses paid while with Globe, and if anything goes awry, she will have $5,000 times X years.  Now show me any woman in FSU who can point to a stockpile of this type of money.  It is more of a safety net than most will ever have.  Yeah, yeah I know there are some, like one in a thousand.

And you say, what is she doesn't want to go back.  Well tough, tough.  This is like giving someone a free ride to work every day for a long time until you get tired of their bad breath or whatever . . . . and then the other person says, 'but I don't want to go back to walking.'

This would be like we men could just tell the women, 'I don't want to go back to the women I was with before you.'  The would rightly say, Tough Sheet, you should have thought of that before you treated me like . . . . .  such and such.

You can't compare with what would fly with an AW as you suggest.  We each (man and woman) have to analyze the situation from our own 'what if' considering our position with and without the other person.  We can't compare our situation with that experienced by another woman or man from another country, another social level, economic level, etc.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I'm confused...., posted by Albert on Dec 9, 2003

Albert,
You say, "She has relatively nothing. So anything she gets will be like frosting"  How can you possibly know this?  You ASSUME that she is poor because she is Russian.  How about her carreer?  She walks away from it and comes to America for Globe.  Do you have any idea how difficult it is to go from an educated and or prestigious position in Russia to come to America and become a sales clerk in a store (IF the woman has some language skills)?  You have no idea of how degrading this can be.

As for your statement, "You can't compare with what would fly with an AW as you suggest."  Why not?  Is a Russian woman somehow inferior to an AW?  We sit here and praise the RW for being BETTER than AW.  Why would you not treat them as well?  Would you take advantage of their ignorance?  At what point does the RW become an AW?  After a year?  Two?  Ten?  When?

You think of yourself as some white knight that is going to save some poor RW and bring her to America.  Good luck, Bubba, you're gonna need it.
KenC

... in response to Yes, you ARE confused...., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

don't pick on me.

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I don't see it as a "deception" that you witheld from her the true contents of your wealth.  That is ridiculous.  Perhaps,  she did have a good idea you were well off?  Based upon your style of travel and genorosity to her.  "Deception" would be if you told her you had millions and you didn't.  That you had a Ferrari and really had a Ford Escort.  Now that,  is deception.  To downplay your net-worth is not a deception...in life,  it is wise.

The matter of $5K for each year of marriage is certainly not a pittance when all else is provided to her on an every day basis.  Perhaps another formula could have been used, a percentage,  but this flat-fee is not an altogether bad deal for her.  If she really loves you?  It would be not a problem at all.

The real problem is her need to "haggle" the pricing.  Does this seem like a woman who loves you?  If you up her ante to 10K?  Will her love be twice as true?  Up it by 4 times to $20K per married year and...is that some kind of love?  No.  Of course not.  It is just her haggling over her price. Like at a street market.

The little story of the guy who died without a will was just a viel,  a cute little story,  to justify her concern and need for a "better finacial deal" with you.  Reminds me of the old Bernard Shaw line, "....that has already been established my dear,  now we are merely haggling over the price."

I only know you from yours posts here and you always seemed lucid.  I think your gut is telling you the right thing.  Sometimes you just got to get up and walk away from the deal.

... in response to Deception?, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

My lifes experiences have been different than some here.  Many/most people like to see life and what happens to them through "rose colored glasses" always looking for the best thing that can possibly result from any situation.  I look at things with the view that the at best, I have a 50/50 chance of success, no matter how I feel.  This is beacuse people change, feelings change, situations change which no one can predict.  I think and hope that my love for a person would be the same 5-10-20 years down the road.
Having been married for 10 years previously, this had been the case.  I know me.  I can only guess with her.  Therein, lies the problem or where the thought process takes over whereby you begin to think what you would hope happens, and then what might happen.  I understand everyone's concern as to whether I'm being fair with her.  She has the right to voice concern, to which I answered those concerns.  I don't need to go into any more detail than I have already, but her first year assets would have been improved by $40K, and then they would improve to a staggering amount.

I was not looking for advice from others on what I have decided to do in this matter, but wanted to share my experience, as I have done in the past.  You never know as it might benefit someone.

Finally, I have no say in whether or not someone can stay here after a divorce as that is for BCIS to decide.  I would hope she would stay if we married and a divorce took place in that I think there are more opportunities for her here than there.

Maybe I'm right, maybe not, but have decided what is best for me for how she has made me feel.  I'm sorry all stories don't have happy endings as I like them best.

At the end of the day it's still a crap shoot.  Oh, by the way...sorry some of you don't think that my "red flag" was worth observation, or action.  But then I've never been known to have been an ostritch with my head in the sand....hoping for the best!

Good Luck to All.

... in response to Re: Deception?, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

no advice for you Globe.  Only that I wiah you the best both now and in the future,  Cheerio, Tim360

... in response to Deception?, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

Tim,
As I said in a previous post, financial planning and love go together like oil and water.  A prenupt is a difficult subject even when both people are from the same culture and speak the same language.  In talking through a prenupt, I would think that it should be like the future marriage a little "give and take."  Not all one sided.  Even to be legal, it must be fair.  Does it make her a bad woman because she doesn't think it is fair?  I don't think so.  They should be able to discuss it and come to a solution that is comfortable.
KenC

... in response to Re: Deception?, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Money and love do not mix quite well.  Even friendship and money can be troublesome.  Too much money makes many people too jealous--and some too covetous.  In fact,  I cannot quite fathom her desire for more prenup money.  If we are talking about "love"?  If we are talking about money,  then she would have done quite well, as Globetrotter's finanaces and hers increased over the years.  In most states,  if divorce occured after a few years, she would have been entitled to 30-50% (depending on the court) of the $$$ made since their wedding day.   A prenup cannot contravene or vacat a state law and few judges would award her only $5K for each year married.  No matter how ironclad any lawyer tells you it is.  It is way below poverty level.  $5K per year would be laughed out of court.  The prenup assets, previous to marriage being protected.  Still,  that does amount to a few good rubles for her.  Notwithstanding,  the fact that her assets prior to marriage are still hers.  Or is she giving this all to Globe as a "dowry"?  And Globe pays all the bills and was putting her and her kids in his will etc,  she did have a pretty good deal.  Notwithstanding all the cultural stuff---she comes off as greedy to me.

But Ken,  let me ask you this.  Where is her love in all of this???  Seems like haggling for better position.  And duplicitious.  And is this any way to begin a marriage? If this is the beginning,  whatever will the main course be?

Real love?  Ya know it the second it hits you.  There is little to barter or haggle about.  Anything else...is just business.  A deal.  

Sounds like a biz deal to me and Globe has too much exposure with this lady.

"If I pay you double Darling; will you love me twice as much??"

... in response to Money, Money= Security, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

Albeit from her perspective. (Where is his love in all of this?, Is this any way to begin a marriage?, etc.)

... in response to Money, Money= Security, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

..where is the love indeed....on either side.

Da*m, these threads are some of the few that actually impress me. It's one of the rare cases where I can't seem to arrive at a concrete decision about the whole affair because there is so much truth on both sides of the fence. I hate it when that happens. The board at it's best imho.

It's a pity Globe's the one involved, I'd love to hear his objective thoughts on this one as an outsider. No hope in that though...

It truly requires his intimate knowledge of the case to make the call and even then I don't see me doing it as quickly. Three years is a long time, I only hope he gets it resolved in a way that makes them both happy. There has gotta be a better way than simply blowing her off. (Yikes...did I really just say that?)

... in response to Good points...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

It's all about the decision Globe makes and feels comfortable with. It's not about how we feel on the matter because at the end of the day Globe is the one who is invested in this situation.
 Advice is probably what he's not looking for but rather sharing his decision in an effort to get feedback? Is he looking for advice here? He said he was not looking for advice because he's done the deed already.
 Man oh man I really wish the best of everything and support your decision that you feel is best for you and your interests.

... in response to Re: Good points...., posted by that guy on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

Nah, forget it. Thank KenC.

... in response to Good points...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

n/t

... in response to Good points...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

You really said that ;-)

... in response to LP....., posted by Philb on Dec 9, 2003

...people like me get all disoriented when they can't get a firm grip on something, I really hate it when that happens.

I just see so many MOB guys who get what they deserve because they went about it the wrong way. Along comes a guy who thinks it through, pays his dues and boom...it blows up in his face even before he gets the chance to see if it'll blow up in his face. ;)

How can a guy who thinks like this think like this? Or is it exactly because he thinks like this? If train A left Boston at 5:22 PM and train B left....I'm so confused. ;)

... in response to Money, Money= Security, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

Tim,
I will re-post here what I said to Globe as it applies:
Globe,
This may be my last post on this subject and you may not even read this one. Negotiating a prenupt is a very difficult procedure. On one hand, the two people love each other (that should be a given). A big part of love is trust. Now how do you say to each other:I love you completely but I do not trust you enough to risk my future financial well being? This is not to say you shouldn't have a prenupt. You would be foolish not to have one in your circumstance. But, you shouldn't ask her to trust you blindly as you have chosen not to trust her in this way either. There is no good way for her to say "this is not fair" without appearing as a money hungry beetch. You say, "I am a nice guy who is fair and loving and would include her in everything I did". How does she know that for sure? Where is HER safety net should the marriage not play out as you say?

You and others here assume that at $5K/YR, she should be set to begin her life anew back in Russia. What if she doesn't want to go back? Would the $5K/YR fly with an American woman? I think not. Don't look down at her for talking dollars and cents as it is the subject YOU BROUGHT UP. She is trying to play your game by your rules. This is a very difficult process, have some patience.
KenC

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I don't know you too well or maybe not at all but I'm sorry for your recent situation. Hope things change for the better in your life and all things good come your way.

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

..Like I said below, no one knows the details but you so I'm only looking at it the way I would. I learned long ago doing things in the heat of the moment is bad mojo. I only hope you considered everything in light of the investment. And remember, if your state is community property you'll only have to give up half of what you made after the marriage.

But sometimes you have to walk away, there are many who couldn't and paid the price. Hell, a long time ago in a galaxy far away I was one. If you've listened to the Little Man inside and made the call then so be it. Can't say I disagree with everything you've said, this business is mostly for those who've reached a low at some point. Consider it a form of temporary insanity. Still, I like these women, the one's not involved with MOB are a different breed and fun to deal with.

Never say never though, you know this. I found my involvement to be an education that prepared me to do it right if I choose to get serious and enter the fray again...maybe you oughta look at it the same way. Stay in touch...you can always pop in and stir things up, I can't do it alone. You're much more tacful and your wisdom will be missed if you bug out now.

Good luck my friend, you know how to reach me...

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

good for you standing your ground.   I use to think pre nups were terrible until I had assets and have seen the heartbreak of many guys in the end who marry women with no skills and get screwed.....  Frankly if I get married, I will have a pre nup and it will last for 5 to 10 years, then it may end then.   By then I should know someone and if things are not working I can divorce before the expiration of the term.   I do think under those conditions being otherwise generous is important.   I also think that things you buy while married are important and for the significant other to own things like cars etc, so she feels she has some ownership interest in the marriage.  
   Also, keep in mind that in a will you can name the wife as sole heir to your estate if you die and have life insurance if she is concerned that you may die and leave her without a thing.   I can understand such fears coming from where the come from.   You might wish to consider this if she is really a good woman.

Robert D.

... in response to Re: I'm Out of the Game...................., posted by Robert D on Dec 9, 2003

A good friend of mine is pretty wealthy (in the millions) and recently got married to a regular guy.  She wrote the prenup so that any wealth and assets she amassed during marriage he was entitled to half of that.  Anything before marriage he couldn't touch.  That way she shared the bounty of her marriage, but protected herself in case of divorce.  That seemed fair to me.

Too bad I met her later in life.  She's young, smart (she made all that money herself), sexy and had the hots for me.  Marina was already my wife by then, so we only could be close friends.  Ah well, timing is everything, I guess. :-)

... in response to How a friend of mine did it, posted by John K on Dec 10, 2003

sounds fair to me also. Do you have any idea how she broached the subject?

... in response to Re: How a friend of mine did it, posted by Richard on Dec 11, 2003

'

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Globe,
For what it is worth here is my opinion:

Lena and I have been together for over 5 years AND WE STILL HAVE MISCOMMUNICATIONS BECAUSE OF LANGUAGE.  Don't underestimate that as a possibility.  You take it as a "cop out" for a deal gone bad.

Mixing financial responsibility with love is always a tricky proposition.  They mix like oil and water.  You have every right to insist on a prenupt, but she also has a right to negotiate too.  You shouldn't have to risk your sizable wealth, nor should she have to risk her future life for a measly $5K.  That is incredibly cheap when considering your wealth as you state it.  To consider the woman of your dreams to turn her life upside down for that amount of money is absurd.  I know a UW/AM couple that recently divorced where she received more and they didn't have a pot to piss into!!

You, my friend, have deceived her for over three years as to the amount of your wealth (and she still loved you.) A week ago you lay a "bomb shell" on her that you are a lot better off than you have led her to believe.  Only then, you bring up the prenupt.  Hmmm, kinda like telling a kid you OWN the candy store before you limit his candy intake.
You timing could have been better (but as I said before it is a slippery slope here.)

You are ready to cut bait and run after this "bump in the road"?  I don't question her motives, but I do question your sincerity.  I think it is a matter of you being over paranoid about putting your wealth at risk.  And you have a right to protect yourself from foolishly risky your lifetime accomplishments, but $5K?  Come on, you could be a lot more fair about it.  You "throw her a bone" and ASSUME that she will run back to Russia if things don't work out.  Because she is smart enough to see this, and responds, you run?  You should be proud to have selected a woman that would have the backbone not to be duped like this.  You are making the mistake of a lifetime.
KenC

... in response to big mistake, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Wow...I've been accused of so much I'm not sure I can answer all of the charges.  Let's see...she's been duped, I'm cheap, I threw her a bone, you question my sincerity, I dropped a bombshell, and this is a "bump in the road" right?

No man, I see it as a bad omen and shades of things to come.
Should I have told her that I was worth plenty?  Why would I do this, which makes no sence?

I'm disgusted with you and your comments, and you don't live under my roof, didn't read or write the letters to and from my girl, aren't wearing my shoes, etc., etc.  It's my take on the situation, and to me it smells pretty bad!  And I didn't just fall off the turnip truck!

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I post extremely rarely but I thought I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I have been married to RW for over 6 years and I did a prenup which was even more unfair when compared to what you had to offer. Having said that, I really appreciate that you posted your experience with the prenup problem. I believe you did the right thing. Only you know what is the best decision based on your personality and few sentences of your posting can’t recapitulate what had transpired between you two for the three years. So don’t take any of the postings (including this) seriously because folks are writing based on incomplete knowledge.

Now looking from the point of view of the RW, there is one observation which I didn’t see anyone make. Russian women are very emotional - I mean they can be fun loving, cheerful but can have emotional outburst when things don’t go well- kinda bipolar nature. I used to think silently to myself “They need to put Lithium in the Russian water-supply”. I can’t generalize this character but probably your girlfriend might fall in that category. She might have said all this out of control (more of an impulsive behavior) but then when she settled down she realized her mistake and tried to come up with all excuses (might be true) including language barrier. I agree with you that this is not due to language barrier. In my marriage we don’t have language barrier since my wife’s English skills is excellent but her Babushka who lives with us hardly speaks English but she is right on the mark in understanding things based on non-verbal communications.

So do what your heart desires. So if you smell something fishy, end it all because you shouldn’t regret it one day. Or if you could look at it more objectively, give her a second chance.

Good luck.

... in response to Re: Re: big mistake, posted by Ukrainelover on Dec 12, 2003

Ukrainlover,
I too have a "hot blooded" Russian wife, so I understand where you are coming from.  Globe's gal may indeed have over reacted in an unpleasant and unrealistic manner.  It is almost as though if you push the right button on these women, they loose any self control and revert into their "kick azz now, ask questions later" mode.  Good point.
KenC

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Globe,
Maybe I was a bit harsh in my previous comments as I was trying to jerk you into a more realistic approach here.  I do not think that keeping your wealth "hidden" a bit is necessarily a bad thing.  In fact, I think it was a wise thing to do.  However, this is new information to her.  She loved you without knowing this.  Why can't you understand that 1)she may not have handled "negotiating" the prenupt well or 2)she may not be able to express herself clearly on the subject matter.  After 3 years, I would think you could cut her some slack and talk this thing through rather than just ending it.

I know that you are a reasonable man.  But I also know that you were more than a bit hesitant to enter into marriage.  Could it be that your paranoia got the best of you?  Of course, I do not have all the information on this as you do, but from what you have shared, it seems so.  Best of luck to you.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: big mistake, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Please do not associate a conversation over one year ago with where I got to with my RW.  I had known a girl here for a very long time and she was hitting on me...actually smelling the gravey, which I sniffed out and ended it before it started.  That was my concern then, not now.

I was right where I needed to be mentally and emotionally.
When I champion a cause, be it for myself or someone else, I put great effort into it.  When betrayed, it cuts deeply.

Sure, now she is backpeddling and wanting back in.  I still say no!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: big mistake, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by John K]

It's easy to assume that all she want's is money, but don't forget that she put a lot of time and emotional investment into your relationship.  Money is indeed a hot subject, but up until you disclosed your wealth, you have to admit that there is a possibility that she wanted you for something else.

Also, the issue may be money, but looking at it from the woman's point of view, the issue is more likely trust.  You just demonstrated to her after 3 years of contact that you don't trust her.  How can you expect her to act any differently than what she did?  She was likely deeply hurt and defensive.  

Also, your $5000 a year quote probably deeply offended her.  She wants to be your wife, not your live in prostitute (again, her thinking, not yours).  Marriage is supposed to mean sharing.  While I understand that you want to protect your assets, you also need to respect your fiancee as a person.  It seems you could be doing too much of one and not enough of the other.  Perhaps you might want to rethink.

While backpedalling may seem like she's just trying to get your money, it may also mean that she doesn't want to lose a relationship that she put so much emotional investment into.  She didn't know you were wealthy before did she?  She wanted you for the man she thought you were.  Now, you have changed the whole dynamic on her, and you expect her to adapt immediately to it.  Now, she must be wondering how much of the man she thought she knew is true.  

Still, she's willing to try and stay with you.  While it may seem obvious to you that it's simply for the money, for me, I've never known a woman to ever be obvious.  They just look that way sometimes.

I don't know the whole of your situation, but from what you've shared here, it seems you dropped your girl into a different reality and then slapped her with a "I don't trust you" issue.  That isn't likely to enhance a relationship.

I hope that you find a good resolution to all this.  Perhaps your only choice is to break it off.  Perhaps it's something else though.  Before doing something rash, take a little time to think about it.  Knee jerk reactions often hurt all involved, including yourself.  If there is still love on both sides, then other options are worth exploring.  If money is too important an issue, then it's better for both of you to drop her.  Even if she agrees to the prenup as it is, money, control, and trust issues will continue to plague your relationship until you both overcome them together.

Best of luck in this.  I hope you find the right decision for the both of you.

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Hang in there mate.

... in response to big mistake, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...I find a lot of wisdom in your posts. I also find a lot of stuff I completely disagree with, like your continuing propensity to say these women are turning their life "upside down" to come here. They accept it and 90% of the ones I know can't wait to bail becaue the FSU life they lead truly sucks. This includes doctors, lawyers, the upper crust so to speak. It's why they got into MOB to begin with. (Not love as many presume, thats simply the icing on the cake.)

I also don't agree he deceived her, it's his right to withold any information he chooses if he deems it to be in his best interest. (But if he's made the call it's now time to come clean.) And I doubt he is making the mistake of a lifetime if he cuts and runs. (Which in the end I'm guessing he won't.)

You're right about pre-marriage assets and money. I wish more guys would try to understand the extra problem they create. They need to think about how difficult it can be to get ahead and how all that sacrifice translates into complicated feelings that go way beyond loving someone. If they knew how hard it really was to get ahead they might better understand how tough it is to swallow the risk of losing it to someone who's done nothing to help get there, especially when there is so much BS involved in divorce preceedings these days. On the other hand it makes me a little envious of guys who don't have this to worry about. Makes life so much simpler at times, in many ways.

But not withstanding the comments in my other post above, I too see signs of his getting cold feet now that the deal is near. Not for the wrong reasons but for the wrong amounts, perhaps he's being too anal. It would be a pity to throw away such a long investment without some give and take. It will make her feel she has some say and build a stronger foundation for their future. After all, he's looking at a lifetime of give and take with her. Best to start now...

I think he's slightly overwhelmed at this point simply because he *knows* what's at stake, both with his assets and with his long and careful investment in this relationship. She's no doubt probably freaking a bit also. Lets wait and see, I know Globe is not as much a loose cannon as he appears...at least when he's thinking straight.

In the end though, nobody here knows all the nuances of his deal so all we can do is offer advice based on personal bias. It's his show and he needs to do what he feels is right for him. If he does choose to bail it'll only be another bump in his road of a different kind and it's good he realizes that.

... in response to As usual....., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

LP,
OK.  The deceive part was a little over the top.  LOL.  As I have posted elsewhere in this thread, I was trying to jolt some common sense into Globe.  I think he (and maybe her too) are a little freaked by what lies ahead.  Cold feet?  Nahhh
KenC

... in response to Re: As usual....., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

Cold feet in the sense he's worried about his assets. In fact, I suspect he really wants this and will find a way to solve the problem. And jolting is good...I think if he didn't want advice (that he agrees with or not) he wouldn't have posted. As with a few others, you often offer a perspective not always apparent to everyone and I know he values that even if it bends him at times. (lol..it's the same with me.)

I don't to like risk insulting men I respect but that's never stopped me before. No matter what he says, no matter how logical and matter of factly he presents his case, the fact is he has to be emotionally churning over this. It's obvious in his original post and responses. Nothing wrong with that, it's to be expected.

No matter what he says right now, at this point I don't think he's done with her...but thats only *my* gut feeling and I could be wrong. Very few people can simply walk away from a prolonged emotional experience without reflecting as time goes by. It's obvious Globe is a thinking man and he's not likely to escape himself as easily as he wishes.

We shall see. I hope it works out because they both put a lot into it and it'd be a shame to flush it now. But if it doesn't he's no worse off. If nothing else, it's another argument for not putting all your eggs in one basket.

Btw, my compliments on your shrugging off his anger at your comments. You clearly understand he would have prefered this situation turn out differently and he's reacting to the loss. Regardless of whether we agree or not, your grace under fire (in such cases) is a trait I wish I possessed.

... in response to Well....., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

LP,
The fact that I have talked to Globe and have great respect for him does not change the fact that my opinion is different from his.  Even smart guys like us need a slap upside our heads once in a while.  LOL.
KenC

... in response to big mistake, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

I think the idea of not telling one how much you are worth is a good thing as it allows you to decide if the person that you are considering is interested in you or just money.   I would suspect that the woman had some idea of his wealth.  As far as getting nothing is concerned, well if the lady is not working and is taking care of the kids and has missed out on her development for the benefit of the family, I agree with you.  But if that is not the case or if she is working, then she should keep what she contributed.  Why is it that men under the later situation should pay anything when they get divorced?

Robert D

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by Robert D on Dec 9, 2003

Robert,
My point is that she wasn't told the true magnitude of the man's wealth.  Whether that is valid or not, is not my issue.  But that she had days to ponder the what if's and then may have not responded properly.  I also feel that the RW that turns her life upside down to come here deserves at least a "leg up" to get her life back on track should things not work out.  It is only fair as I see it.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: big mistake, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Jeez, 5 K/year will give her a BIG "leg up" in Russia. Greed was her downfall. It's his life, his decision, his consequences.
Why in the world would any sane man "brag" to a prospective third world woman of his wealth!?!? She would have found out soon enough, had her GREED not got in the way.
The entire reason the FSU & American connections work is solely economic. She just saw instant hyperwealth, and was greatly disappointed when it was not guaranteed. Now she is stuck. Serves her right.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: big mistake, posted by jrm on Dec 9, 2003

What if she doesn't want to return to Russia?  I thought that was the point being made.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: big mistake, posted by Richard on Dec 9, 2003


Money was obviously her motive, not love , companionship and commitment.
Globetrotter was her ticket to Amerika, and if she cash's in,(divorces) let her go back to mother Russia, or work like the rest of us.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big mistake, posted by jrm on Dec 9, 2003

heck she can work here.   I met a woman in a bar recently who was married to an american.   She says 4 years she has been in the country, and has a green card.  I saw no ring on her finger and she mentioned that she is happy here and working as a waitress at a large hotel (hilton).  The guys she met at the bar was not her husband, and frankly in the 15 minute conversation with her about the US and comparing it to the Ukraine, well I just got the clear impression she got married to get here, divorced her husband and was hot on the hunt for a young stud.   She was tall rather attractive, and VERY confident.  All of my alarms went off in my head with this one and I could only wonder who the guy was that she married and decided to dump.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big mistake, posted by Robert D on Dec 9, 2003

The question is why would you pay a woman like the woman I met a dime.  She was happy to be here and working, and felt it was much better than her country.  She made out like a bandit.   So there was no uprooting problem.   She goes home now 2 times a year she said.

Robert D

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Only you know the best move to make here for yourself.  Doubtless,  you will receive alotta advice,  but this is your decision.  'Cuz you are the one to live with the consequences. It does sound like you have alot of assets worth protecting with a prenup.  I would.  The 5K figure does seem on the light side. But, conversely,  your house leaving "your column" and moved to "our column" in 1 year is pretty steep too. Especially since she retains her properties in Russia and would not be destitute if divorce occured.

Today a marriage without a prenup is fine when both parties are young and have not accumulated much wealth.  I myself married at a young age without a prenup and without any wealth.  Of course there are expectations for the future together.  Within 6 years we were divorced with 2 kids.  I gave her everything except for my desk and I took the older car,  everything else was given or signed over to her.  And I continued to pay hefty child support until the "kids" were both 23 and out of college. At any age marriage can be an expensive experience and I can't blame you for shielding your assets.

If it don't feel right in your gut...don't do it. Good Luck.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

She blew it big time! Now she will be stuck in Russia and undoubtedly will try to redeem the relationship.
I  think the 5 K was a good offer, twice the national per capita income in Russia, and she wouldn't have had to work.True, you would have been responsible for her if she had remained here and became a "ward of the state". But what woman would come to  the  land of opportunity to live in poverty, in other words she would work like the rest of us.
Sorry to see you leave the board.
What kinda plane you gonna build?
Best of luck.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

If you've already made up your mind, so be it, but from listening to your story I think you may have jumped the gun in pulling the plug, particularly after all of the effort that you and her have put into this relationship.  First, with the assets you describe I agree that a pre-nup is appropriate, but remember that these women are taking a risk just like you, particularly in your case since your lady apparently has some of her own assets that in Russia could easily be misappropriated if not properly managed and maintained.  RWs need to feel secure in coming to the U.S. and $5,000 per year might fly in Russia, but certainly doesn't do it here.  (By the way, if you got divorced and all she got was $5,000 and elected to live on welfare, you would be on the hook per the Affidavit of Support for all the welfare payments - Medicaid, etc. - a lot more than $5,000/yr.)  That and other points you described seemed to be proper subjects of negotiation, instead of just cutting and running.  Second, don't underestimate the language and cultural explanation offered by her.  Even women that are fluent in English would have difficulty with the technical concepts of such an agreement.  Also, while not trying to over-generalize, RWs tend to overeact to controversial issues as if the world is collapsing, and need some explanation and time to absorb such concepts.  

I guess based on what you said that you might want to reconsider, but, of course, I don't have all the facts.

... in response to Re: I'm Out of the Game...................., posted by Charles on Dec 9, 2003

I agree with the two previous responses.

Just my "two cents," but I think you may live to regret this decision.

You doubt that she may have misunderstood.  I wonder how well you understand her Russian.

In my limited experience with Russians I have found that they easily misunderstand our need for "financial planning." Under Communism, as bad as it may have been, they were all pretty much in the same boat.  Their apartments might have been small but everyone had a home.  Health care may have been poor compared to what most of our, rapidly diminishing middle class enjoys, but everybody had it.  Mass transit was cheap and excellent and available to all city dwellers.  In addition they have been led to expect that the capitalist system makes us all "greedy."  "Greed is good." said Gordon Gekko in "Wall Street."

All my Russian friends misunderstood the American concern for accumulating "riches," for a comfortable "old age," and to enrich our heirs so they may have an inherited advantage over their peers.

I do not mean to criticize you for I do not know all the facts.  Your offer of $5,000 per year though seems pretty small considering all the "assets," you profess to have.  I can not imagine any family court judge letting you get away with such a stingy pre-nup.

... in response to I'm Out of the Game........................, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

My experience has taught me to never totally close a door and try to keep an open mind.

  Sometimes I feel just like you do right now and want to just give it up.  You may change your mind in three months or so and say what the heck.............back in the chase.  

 As long as you are living and ticking you will do what you like - and some of the time the like will be a really outstanding woman, or the thought of one...........which may take you on another International trip to the FSU - maybe.

  It will be a shame losing you from this board.  I hope you provide your insights to temper our hopes, dreams and reality.