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Title: New job for Saddam Post by: romachko on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Rumsfeld might hire Saddam as a consultant to keep Al Kaeda terrorist group out of Iraq. Most of insurgents in Iraq are Al Kaeda terrorists, not Saddam's men because the latter, "infidels," won't do suicide attack and they don't have guts to do it either. Saddam had successfully kept Al Kaeda out of Iraq for many years. He might know the trick of a trade!
Comparing Saddam with Hitler would be a great insult to the Fuehrer. If Saddam were a rat, Hitler would have been a T-Rex. There are many ranks and levels for each of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. It still won't justify this war. Bush clearly said the reason for this war was WMD, which turned out to be a phantom over Arabian desert. If the reason was to free Iraq from Saddam, Bush should have stated it clearly at the beginning, not as a side issue. I'll tell you a very sad episode. One of the chopper, which was shot down, came from Peoria, IL. The dead pilot, an Illinoisan, was the son of a Latvian immigrant, who served as a U.S. paratrooper. The pilot's older brother served in Gulf War and his younger brother is a Marine. At the pilot's funeral, the family refused to wrap his coffin with the flag. The entire family is quite critical about this war, the object of which is not clear at all to them. Who can blame this patriotic family? I am wonderring why Saddam had been so successful to control Iraq for so many years. He is quite apparently neither smart nor brave. Or, anyone with a little luck can be a leader in Iraq? Title: Re: New job for Saddam Post by: Robert D on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to New job for Saddam, posted by romachko on Dec 15, 2003
if you had 10 years of warnings, you could hide the entire city of Bagdad buddy, so it will take time to find what we know is there, after all the man buried 7 war jets once before which we found purely by luck, so now that folks will have no fear of talking now, we will find what we are looking for then eveyone opposed to the war will find other reasons to oppose the war. Saying no to war is easy, no sane person likes it. But to avoid all war, even in the face of terrible things including what this man did to his own, not to mention, his hatred for us which was limited only by his current inability to attack and kill us, well that is insane as well. (like delay on N. Korea) We know what the cost of delay is, 20 million Russians, 5 million allies, for not going ager Hitler until he was too powerful. War is not nice, delay more often than not is worse robert D. Title: Re: New job for Saddam Post by: Streetwise on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to New job for Saddam, posted by romachko on Dec 15, 2003
The call to war may have been made on a red herring but the net result is that an evil regime has been removed, which is good for mankind as a whole. Not only does it mean the end of the suffering inflicted on the Iraqis, it sends a strong signal beyond. The fact that Saddam crawled out of his hole without a fight also helps, as many of his followers (who would have expected him to either top himself or go out like Butch Cassidy) have now lost respect for him. I keep hearing people hinting that Saddam was somehow "useful" as he knew what it took to keep control over there. Why should instability and civil strife be inevitable in that part of the world? For example Jordan doesn't need an animal to keep its population under control. Title: Re: Where is Bin Laden ? Post by: wsbill on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: New job for Saddam, posted by Streetwise on Dec 15, 2003
We've probably know where he's been all along. The republicans needed something to jump start the Christmas shopping season which had recently gone sour. Where is BL ? Title: Re: Re: Where is Bin Laden ? Post by: Robert D on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Where is Bin Laden ?, posted by wsbill on Dec 15, 2003
bull, he is in a hole just like Sadam and in an area more difficult to search, where many misguided people like him for killing americans. He will get flushed out one day or die from kidney failure first, either way he will die as most murdering idots have as history has shown us.
Title: Re: Re: New job for Saddam Post by: wilmc on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: New job for Saddam, posted by Streetwise on Dec 15, 2003
You make a very good point, saddam needed to be stopped. My concern though is with the rational and methods. Certainly, I admit I do not have all the answers but there is a lot about bush's Iraq adventure that smells darn fishy to me. My perception was that we preemptively attacked Iraq because of imminent danger to our national security, due to WMD's and a terrorist alliance with al qaeda. That is what bush and blair told us. Where oh where are those WMD's? Near as I can tell the WMD's that caused the most harm were the cluster bombs used by our forces that are still killing innocent Iraqi kids. And any alliance between al qaeda and the secular baathists defies reason. Consequently I must suspect there was some other motive for the haste to go to war. If so, why were we misled? In order to depose saddam we killed at least 4,000 Iraqi civilians and God knows how many conscript soldiers who were either running away or trying to surrender. We continue to use overkill methods to combat the guerrila fighters, and "shades of Viet Nam" have resorted to "body counts" to measure our "successes." It is a sticky mess and my deepest sympathies lie with the coalition soldiers who are in the thick of it. In my humble opinion we need to get relief for them as quickly as possible. Instead the bush team, (pun intended), continues to "poison the well" with acts of stupidity concerning our relations with the family of nations. As a tax payer I am offended that all comptent suppliers are not given the opportunity to bid on Iraq reconstruction projects instead of the "secret 'rip off' deals" that have been made. Perhaps if the bush regime had been more honest instead of playing the r 9/11 revenge card to wage war on Iraq they could have built a legitimate UN endorsed coalition. To rid Iraq of saddam may very well have required military action and some "collateral damage," probably would have occurred. Maybe not, the "cold war" was won with containment as I recall. Somehow though, if it had been done "legit," I think the world would be in a lot better shape today. Of course then the neo-cons could not have shown all those "wimp nations" how tough we are. As Shakespeare's Puck said, "What fools these mortals be." Title: You don't need.... Post by: LP on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to New job for Saddam, posted by romachko on Dec 15, 2003
[This message has been edited by LP] ...smarts or luck to rule a country, only an iron fist and the minions to apply it. (It's exactly the same in the US, other than the iron fist being in a velvet glove.) They all have to face the music in the end and Saddam (or Bush) is no different. I still find it disturbing that the US would invade another nation without proof of any wrong doing by it, then hunt it's leader for months and tout his capture. No one is disputing Saddam is a bad guy but the world is full of bad guys and it's not our job to police them. Not to mention he was our buddy when it suited our needs. Dubya is quite amazing at times, this display of further US arrogance will only deepen the hatred felt by those against America and we will pay for it in more lives lost. Whats good for politics is seldom good for people, as long as it "plays in Peoria" the country will never learn this lesson. And like Saddam was running the resistance from his hole, what a joke... Title: damn, you and I finally agree on something! n/t Post by: jrm on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Title: Re: We wouldn't be there if it weren't for OIL Post by: wsbill on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to You don't need...., posted by LP on Dec 15, 2003
We watched genocide in Kosovo and the Congo...this was just to finish the job his old man didn't finish. Besides it also distracted people from point the finger at how bad the economy really is... Hope you don't work for IBM - there goes 4700 jobs to Asia. Title: Work for IBM? Post by: LP on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: We wouldn't be there if it weren't f..., posted by wsbill on Dec 15, 2003
[This message has been edited by LP] ...Not a chance. But I have to be careful because my opinions could jepordize my livelihood. The gum'mint doesn't like those it can influence not towing the line ya know. They might take away my toys or stop me from flying to places I don't want to go in the first place. Isn't 'Merica great?
Title: Re: Re: We wouldn't be there if it weren't for OIL Post by: Richard on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: We wouldn't be there if it weren't f..., posted by wsbill on Dec 15, 2003
as the saying goes, IBM = I've been moved. Oh, I forgot. They don't want to pay american salaries: they won't be moving anybody! Title: ??? Post by: MtMav on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to You don't need...., posted by LP on Dec 15, 2003
"...... this display of further U.S. arrogance will ....." My, my, my .... the pot calling the kettle black! Title: Hey, nice.... Post by: LP on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to ???, posted by MtMav on Dec 15, 2003
...to hear from you there old man. I see all those years of military service done brainwashed you good. Hail to the Bozo and all that. Now go back to microwaving a bagel and having sex with it...leave the heavy lifting to me. Title: WMD's Post by: Lynn on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to You don't need...., posted by LP on Dec 15, 2003
But the real WMD's that Bush/Blair were worried about was the fact that Saddam was pushing towards not accepting the US$ in payment for oil. Since there have been no other WMD's found------maybe this was to "kill" the "gold dinar" and install the IMF as their money system. Title: Re: New job for Saddam Post by: wilmc on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to New job for Saddam, posted by romachko on Dec 15, 2003
I can understand the reaction of the Latvian immigrant who lost his son. This morning I heard a report on radio by Allen Sloan, Wall Street Editor, Newsweek. He commented on "bush, the unelected's" defence of rewarding contracts only to countries who participated in the coalition. They were in response to bush's statment on 11 december 2003, "And the expenditure of US dollars will reflect the fact that U. S. troops and others risk their lives." Mr. Sloan said that if his son or daughter had been killed so that Halliburton could get lucrative contracts to rebuild Iraq he would be apoplectic, (outraged.) My sentiments exactly. Title: Re: Re: New job for Saddam Post by: Richard on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: New job for Saddam, posted by wilmc on Dec 15, 2003
it's a shame someone has to die for people to be outraged about this! Title: You bunch of lily livered liberals ought to shut up. NT Post by: Frank O on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Title: Re: You bunch of lily livered liberals ought to shut up. NT Post by: wilmc on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to You bunch of lily livered liberals ought..., posted by Frank O on Dec 15, 2003
Too bad that you reactionaries do not realize that in a democracy it is not only a right but a duty to dissent. Perhaps you should read the First Amendmant to our Constitution. You may recall the first ten amendments are called "The Bill of Rights." Perhaps you have heard of them. Read them soon for they may soon be abolished by ashcroft. Allow me to say, I respect your right to suggest that I desist in expressing my views, but also to tell you that I refuse. It is my duty to try and enlighten even you. Title: Republic Post by: Matt on December 17, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: You bunch of lily livered liberals o..., posted by wilmc on Dec 15, 2003
Hello. I just wanted to let y'all know that the USA was formed as a republic, not a democracy. Democracy is mob rule. Republic is rule by law. Ben Franklin stated, "A republic, if you can keep it." The Patriot Acts are quite scary. http://www.prisonplanet.com/ www.rense.com Title: Preach on. Post by: Lynn on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: You bunch of lily livered liberals o..., posted by wilmc on Dec 15, 2003
The deception is so deep that many people simply refuse to believe the truth. Their reality is much like that of the average citizen in the movie "The Matrix"----processed, freeze dried, pasturized and served up to them everyday in school, the media, what have you------the fact is most people have no idea what is going on and do not care as long as they have beer, pizza and football. Sure, they get all puffed up and yell "I'm proud to be American", wave that flag, pound that chest like Tarzan-----what the heck does that prove----nothing! Sure waving that flag may make some of you feel good, but maybe you should examine what the says: #1, In United States Code, Section 4, Subsection 1,2& 3 it describes a legal size American flag. If the flag you fly does not conform to these regulations then it is considered mutilated-----a mutilated flag suspends your "Constitutional Rights". Can you buy one that is correct----yes, but it's not easy. #2, According to various regulations, a US flag that has a gold fringe around 3 sides, and or a gold rope/tassel----is considered mutilated and "martial law" is in effect----which means you have no rights. To correct Mr. Lee Greenwood, that flag (the one you see everywhere flying) does not stand for freedom----it is meant to enslave you because it is a "military" flag----not the "civil" flag of peace----which would assert your rights as an American. Again, don't take my word for it-----research. Go out and try to buy a "legal, true and correct" flag. Good luck. Title: Admiralty Law Post by: Matt on December 17, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Preach on., posted by Lynn on Dec 15, 2003
Hi Lynn, Also, the flags and pins that they wear are made by slave labour in China. It's so sad how most AmeriKans have accepted the loss of our freedoms that men and women have died for. Title: Shhh, you know most.... Post by: Lynn on December 17, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Admiralty Law , posted by Matt on Dec 17, 2003
would rather sleep thru life than face reality. Isn't it a shame. And, if you assert yourself as a true "Patriot", society is conditioned to look at you as if you are a radical-----I guess that is how they looked at Adams, Paine and Jefferson too. 2nd Ammendment groups are set to join the fight with "We The People" as a result of California's ruling in the Silveira Case and it's failure to be overturned by the Supreme Court there. Read the story. If we are free----how come the 1st Ammendment doesn't apply to all Americans? http://www.givemeliberty.org/ Title: Criminals Post by: Matt on December 17, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Shhh, you know most...., posted by Lynn on Dec 17, 2003
Hi Lynn. Yes, it's funny, how our founding fathers were criminals. Georgia (I'm a Southerner) was first formed by criminals and we had laws that forbade lawyers, ie common law. Jim Bowie and other "patriots" were criminals as well. And now, being a "criminal" is the worst thing one can be in AmeriKa. But the real criminals are respected and revered. And about the "Civil War", it was no such thing. It's so sad how our people have been conditioned. Also, please check out www.chuckharder.com. Lynn, so you live in California? Do you remember this case? Uhmm...let's see, so that I won't get flamed too much, what does this have to do with the Eastern European board? lol Well, I think that ideas about liberty are important in choosing a life mate, and I feel that is relevent for any of these boards. But I sincerely thank everyone for y'all's kindness in letting me post here. Anyway, since I'm sneaking into this board from the asian board, thanks to everyone for not attacking me! lol I have noticed how on the latin board, everyone wants to fight! lol Thanks to all for being polite to me. Y'all take care. Title: Re: Criminals Post by: Lynn on December 17, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Criminals, posted by Matt on Dec 17, 2003
Nope, I'm from North Carolina. I do recall this case though. If his wife knew what she was doing she could have cleaned the closet for the entire county over this matter and never went to "court" to do it. The references to the founding fathers and other famous figures is right on-----revisionist history just tells the bedtime story of their lives, all to lull the populus to sleep. The times and events that led to bringing them into the limelight are not properly discussed. And in another way: In Russia where there there is a movement to change the name of Volgograd back to Stalingrad. A good whitewashing is making Stalin a social hero much the way Lincoln was whitewashed here. Go figure. Title: Here's a link Post by: Matt on December 17, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Criminals, posted by Lynn on Dec 17, 2003
http://www.jpfo.org/choosefuture.htm Most AmeriKan subjects don't want to think that the government is bad. Because then they will be faced with a choice-stand up or bow down. It's easier not to think. Title: And what if you choose not to fly a flag? Post by: John K on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Preach on., posted by Lynn on Dec 15, 2003
Does that make you subject to penalties as well? Just curious... Title: Good question Post by: Lynn on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to And what if you choose not to fly a flag..., posted by John K on Dec 16, 2003
That depends on what venue you are in and if you know how to assert yourself. The tacit contracts are the snares that get you in trouble. Use of a zip code or a P.O. Box are tacit contracts that are the same as asserting yourself as a "corporate" citizen (US Citizen---ward of the government)------there is no requirement to use a zip code on your mail---if you feel you must---put brackets around it, in a legal sense it isn't there, even though you can see it. Title: Re: Preach on. Post by: that guy on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Preach on., posted by Lynn on Dec 15, 2003
I suggest you find a more relivent topic to spew your brains out on because everyone is not gonna agree with either side because they mostly don't understand the subject. Okay I agree the liberals are traitors by sheer defiance and arrogance. I also agree the liberals have done nothing for America other than to drive around in limo's and let us hand our tax money to there poor friends. Vote liberal and that means you get a tax hike and a kick between the legs but other than that you can feel politically correct in 2003 and feel as if your a friend of everyone because in actuality SHEEP don't fight...lol Title: Couldn't agree more. n/t Post by: Lynn on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Title: Re: Preach on. Post by: europete on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Preach on., posted by Lynn on Dec 15, 2003
Take a look at the flag flying outside of the post office and see if it has a gold fringe around it. Ever wonder what the difference means to us? Title: Re: Re: Preach on. Post by: Lynn on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Preach on., posted by europete on Dec 16, 2003
Some do, some don't. But all of them are mutilated, acording to "regulations" ---- US Code. Oh yes, I know what it means to us----bow down or I will hurt you. Title: Just do us a favor & move to France. NT Post by: Frank O on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Title: Re: Just do us a favor & move to France. NT Post by: wilmc on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Just do us a favor & move to France...., posted by Frank O on Dec 15, 2003
Gladly, unfortunately the incompetent bush regime has so undermined our nation's credit that the US$ is in the tank and I probably won't be able to afford my dream villa on the Riviera. God save us if the red Chinese stop buying US debt. Title: Re: Re: Just do us a favor & move to France. NT Post by: romachko on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Just do us a favor & move to Fra..., posted by wilmc on Dec 15, 2003
Hey wilmc, you hit the right note! It's no joke. This will be Viet Nam de ja vu. Nam war took so much of U.S. financial resources that other countries, not involved in war, benefited. In this dog-eat-dog capitalism lowered competitive edge of one country is beneficial to others. Which country was beneficiary? Japan, of course. That’s how Japan started exporting everything, beating Detroit, and buying just about everything attached to American soil in late ’70 through ’80. This time it will not be Japan. They are over the hill and the population is rapidly growing old with an alarmingly low birth rate of less than 1.3 per couple. So, who will be buying USA? You don’t have to be a Milton Friedman; just go to Wal-Mart to find the answer. U.S. monthly trade deficit against China is more than twice that against Japan now. Just about every nation on earth imports from more than export to China. My PC is Chinese made. So are my HP printer, four TV’s, three VTR’s and all other electronic devices. Don’t be deceived by nameplates. Sony made in China, Panasonic made in China, GE made in China. Even Koreans are getting on bandwagon. Many Samsung products are made in China. Toyota started making cars in China and plans eventually to export them from there. The middle class is rapidly growing in China. So, China is a good market for us but they export much more than import. Where those green bucks go? The only obvious place is USA. They are already buying US government bonds just like Japanese have been doing over so many years. Eventually they have to cash them in. They will follow what Japanese did in ’80. Buy American! No, they are not going to buy American products. They are going to buy American corporations and real estates. Title: SsssHrrrooommm Post by: Lynn on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Just do us a favor & move to Fra..., posted by wilmc on Dec 15, 2003
I know that last one went right over. A near miss, but as good as a mile ;) Title: Re: SsssHrrrooommm Post by: LP on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to SsssHrrrooommm, posted by Lynn on Dec 15, 2003
...Me thinks thats exactly Frank's problem: too many shrooms ;) Title: Re: Re: SsssHrrrooommm Post by: Frank O on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: SsssHrrrooommm, posted by LP on Dec 15, 2003
not at all. Keep dreaming S**t ball. Title: That wasn't nice, now was it? n/t Post by: Lynn on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Title: Little testy..... Post by: LP on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: SsssHrrrooommm, posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2003
[This message has been edited by LP] ...there Frank ain'tcha? Shroomless? Hmmm, has to be some reason you do the stuff you do. A 19 year old who thinks Saddam is a good guy? I see you having some quality time with her in the cultural sense. Proposed to a kid half your age 2 days after meeting her? I also see some quality time in the maturity sense. Someone's future is looking mighty grim from where I sit... Title: Possibly. n/t Post by: Lynn on December 16, 2003, 05:00:00 AM Title: I could be wrong... Post by: tfcrew on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to New job for Saddam, posted by romachko on Dec 15, 2003
..but my understanding is that Sadm. Husn. was supported by the US Gov't in the beginning, & esp. in the Iran war.. but I wouldn't want to get too far off topic. ;) Karl Title: US mideast policy has been whacked since Carter Post by: John K on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to I could be wrong..., posted by tfcrew on Dec 15, 2003
[This message has been edited by John K] A quick primer of our muddled Mideast policies. You will note neither Democrats or Republicans come out clean on this... http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=3843 and http://www.consortiumnews.com/2003/022703a.html I don't mean to take us further off topic, but I thought I'd throw a little light on the subject... Title: US foreign policy.... Post by: LP on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to US mideast policy has been whacked since..., posted by John K on Dec 15, 2003
...is indeed a mess. 9-11 would never have happened if the government spent as much time considering what's good for it's citizens as it does for it's "friends" abroad. Course, one could argue US foreign policy is directly related to and shaped by our immigration policies but that's another matter. Title: Re: US mideast policy has been whacked since Carter Post by: wilmc on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to US mideast policy has been whacked since..., posted by John K on Dec 15, 2003
"frontpage," interesting view point. Thank you. "consortium," seemed to be in Chinese or some other character based language. We should all be pleased that saddam hussein will finally be tried for his crimes. Unfortunately, just as hitler and stalin had lots of accomplaces, so did saddam. Not just the infamous deck of cards culprits. There were lots of "war profiteers" who provided him with weapons even though it was well known that he would put them to evil use. Title: Try using western european for your encoding Post by: John K on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: US mideast policy has been whacked s..., posted by wilmc on Dec 15, 2003
That's what I currently use and it comes in ok... Title: My Bad! Post is edited and now is correct. Post by: John K on December 15, 2003, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Try using western european for your enco..., posted by John K on Dec 15, 2003
The actual link was http://www.consortiumnews.com/2003/022703a.html I corrected it in the original post also... |