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http://emf.net/~estephen/misc/usenet/russian.txt

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

Claim: In Russia it is unacceptable to show any kind of affection in public.  Lovers do not hold hands in public.

Answer:  Completely false.  I did it all the time and was not alone.

Claim:  Husbands and wives never sleep together.

Answer:  Completely false.  I have a hard time actually sleeping (I am not talking about having sex) with someone and try to get separate beds.  But most of the women complained about this and wanted us to share one bed.

Claim:  They don't even like kisses and hugs.

Answer:  Completely false.

Claim:  Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about like making love to a dead horse.  They don't take part except to lay still and let it happen.

Answer:  Mostly false.  RW are same as women everywhere.  Most are good at sex and a few are not.

Claim:  Russian ladies are almost all very beautiful.  The cold climate and the wet weather produces beautiful women.

Answer:  Completely false.  RW cover the entire spectrum from beautiful to dogs just the same as women in any country.  The idea about cold and wet is about silliest thing I have read.

Claim:  They will expect you to do everything and buy
them everything and they will seldom, if ever say thanks.  They never say please, or thanks.  It makes them feel degraded to do such a thing.

Answer:  These are very true statements.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

Based on my experience that entire rant is BS.  ALmost all of it exactly opposite of what i have observed or experienced. But then my fiancee' is Ukrainian and that posting was based on experiences just after the Soviet Union fell.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

You say in your profile that you have been to Kiev twice but by all of your responses and questions here I have to question that.

Have you ever been to the FSU?  If you have then I don't understand why you are asking all of the questions that you do.

With all of the questionable links you post I am more inclined to think that you are an American woman who was left for a Russian woman.

No offense is intended it just seems odd to me that a man who claims to have been to Kiev twice does not know most of this stuff and continually posts links to articles questioning and making derogatory comments about FSU women and/or the men who are interested in them.

Would you please clarify yourself and your position for me and perhaps everybody else on this board?

Thanks and happy holidays to you.

... in response to Re: What about this...has this changed ?..., posted by AllenB on Dec 16, 2003

I remember when he went.  In fact, he was engaged to a lady from Kiev.  If I remember correctly, health and other issues developed resulting in a broken engagement. He even posted plenty of pictures of the two of them together in Kiev.

... in response to Bill's been there., posted by John F on Dec 17, 2003

In a world full of trolls it makes perfect analogy that the troll would want the reader to identify with the "experience" rather than the facts.
 We know the facts on FSU women and we also know the facts on all women in general terms. Why should we accept such an experience that voids itself from general commom sense?
 Men are very intelligent and we are not those who would be tricked by mere words here on a board to abandon our destiny that is truth.
 I am convinced that the words written were either written by a man or a woman. The words were written to force us to focus on general material that may find our intentions in doubt.

... in response to Re: Bill's been there., posted by that guy on Dec 17, 2003

I agree, the words were indeed either written by a man or a woman.  Well, then there are those cyber characters. Any neuters possible?

... in response to Your analysis is right on re man or woma..., posted by Albert on Dec 18, 2003

Not the first time he's graced us with such wisdom, check out these pearls:

"Women are very smart and deserve to be with a smart man. A smart man finds women hard to focus on but still tends to look hard. A fine woman finds a good man easy to be with and also hard to deal with."

"He's not looking for advice. He's just telling us his experience to generate feedback so he can make a decision"

Priceless....

... in response to Bill's been there., posted by John F on Dec 17, 2003

So everyone can poke fun at me and can read why the engagement just couldn't happen.

... in response to Re: What about this...has this changed ?..., posted by AllenB on Dec 16, 2003

You draw your own conclusions to the guy story.  From what I saw many women were quite conservative at the airport, but you see the same level of affection her in the states as you do in Kiev.

From the way that guys' story sound, he might have went over there just as the walls were coming down when there maybe wasn't a level of openiness, but I've always had heard that due to the whole family living in the same apartment that one had to get it on outside of the house away from the relatives.

I'll continue to post links which are relevent to the topics of eastern europe in which guys travers to.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

At least my future wife is not like that :-)

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

Wild Bill - great find.  Sometimes you really come up with some great ones.  This is a great negative experience post.  I prefer positive, but occassionally one needs to read some to stay grounded etc.   I believe the guy is honest - just that his experiences were bad.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

n/t

... in response to In the history of this board, nobody has..., posted by jrm on Dec 16, 2003

Whenever I post something interesting/challenging the MOB scene.

Could it be there really is just one or two people actually posting on this message board but post under a couple of different names.

I mean, just recently I posted something down below and nobody was posting a thing for like 2-3 days, and then wham!  

It's like 25 post suddenly appear in 2 hours right after my posting, to push my post question ...down below the screen of view.

... in response to Re: I'm starting to see ... alot of post..., posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

n/t

... in response to try "pasting" occassionally to..., posted by jrm on Dec 18, 2003

[This message has been edited by Lynn]

They turned into a brown goo----looked (and smelled)like dung.

Just because he was dumb enought to post under a alias and then tell on himself and then getting banned because of the idiocy, doesn't mean that the rest of us have such dire needs for amusement.

... in response to Re: I'm starting to see ... alot of post..., posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

... the carnivores are after you veggieboy ;/

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

I find this guy to be almost completely wrong...lol You would think he might have learned something after the first marriage. Maybe this is a woman posting actually.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

Pure garbage!  Too many fallacies in that rant.  RW wife and I will soon be celebrating our fourth wedding anniversary.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

"Their light switches turn light on in the up position."

This is the most accurate statement in the whole article, methinks.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

Does anyone have any opinion about what this guy says about sex with RW is true?

... in response to Wow, this guy is BITTER!, posted by TwoBitBandit on Dec 16, 2003

I know that there are some guys, like myself, have considered women from different regions of the world, so I'll throw in my two cents.  Disclaimer:  My ex-wife is from one of the smaller FSU republics, so there is a mild bitterness factor in my comments.

I do not think that you can project political history for being the reason that a whole people act or behave in a certain way, which the writer was trying to do.  However, I do believe that some cultural generalizations do hold true, and this is not necessarily stereotyping.  (After all, most people would probably agree that Germans are not as demonstrative or passionate as, say, Italians.)  Having said this, my experience dating a small sample of FSU and eastern European women over the past 10 years or so, including my ex-wife, is that they are somewhat colder sexually and emotionally than women from other cultures.  All of the women that I dated over the past were already living in the NYC/NJ area - not sure if this makes any difference, but it is noted nonetheless.

I find that the women of eastern Europe, including FSU, are often looking for the next "bigger & better deal" to come along, especially the younger, prettier ones.  The women tend to lead with their heads rather than their hearts in a relationship, and the guys never see it coming.  Frankly, the track record of the AW/FSUW couples that I have personally observed is abysmal, including my own.  (It's about 1 for 15 that has reached the 5 year mark so far.)

This is not meant as a blanket slam on RW's.  Individual differences always outweigh generalities, and I have no doubt that the happily married guys on this board have great wives.  Good luck to all!

... in response to Re: Wow, this guy is BITTER!, posted by Jersey Mike on Dec 16, 2003

Your cultural *generalization* that
FSUW "are somewhat colder sexually and
emotionally than women from other cultures"
is accurate. Fortunately, I have also had the
pleasure of experiencing FSUW who do not fit
this cultural norm.

I would really feel sorry
for a WM who got stuck with one of the frigid types
as the FSUW brand of coldness is the coldest of all women
on the planet. Maybe the northern latitude has something
to do with it.

Caveat Emptor!

... in response to Wow, this guy is BITTER!, posted by TwoBitBandit on Dec 16, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...nah, forget it. I'd only take heat.

... in response to Wow, this guy is BITTER!, posted by TwoBitBandit on Dec 16, 2003

It's hogwash. My guess is that his motivational techniques could use some work.

... in response to What about this...has this changed ??, posted by wsbill on Dec 16, 2003

I do not believe that this was ever a very accurate picture.  It is based upon the experiences of a bitter man who has suffered through 2 failed marriages.  Both, according to him, the fault of the women's Russian culture.  Sorry for him, but it takes two to make a good marriage and also two to make a bad divorce.

In my experience he has made only a few partially valid points, one example PDA, (public displays of affection) reluctance.  Heck, I come from Upstate NY and they were not very popular there either.

The rest of his diatribe is a gross generalization based upon his own, I believe, distorted opinion.

I have been socializing with Russian ladies for four years now, on foreign holidays and visits to Moscow.  Let me qualify my experience.  It has been only with mature, divorced ladies with children from Moscow.  In all but one case the children were grown and not living at home.  They are all, intelligent, very gracious, appreciative, sophisticated, and sensual.  Maybe I have had good luck or use a good selection process.  Either way I did not find the writers description to be accurate.  

3 of the ladies I dated have subsequently married.  All to western men.  We still correspond and they all seem to have successful marriages.  I have not talked to their husbands though.  

Women from other parts of Russia may be different, just as southern belles are different from valley girls here.  I do not know.