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the thread below from genoramix is why i never post any personal stuff on this board. Alot of the losers here can't wait to take a swing at you, just to make themselves feel better. C'mon, you guys should be ashamed, but i guess that's not the way they think or they would have never posted negative feedback to this guy.
Just my random thoughts..... and a lesson for new guys

... in response to lesson for genoramix, posted by cherokee on Aug 22, 2003

A lesson for us all, I think...

... in response to lesson for genoramix, posted by cherokee on Aug 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...Ease off cherokee, it's you who speak with forked tongue. If yer gonna break out the tomahawk I at least get to say my peace before I'm scalped. It doesn't make me feel better to take a swing at this guy but if he's gonna post here he's like everyone else: fair game. I'm sure he exepcted comments, thats why he posted. I'm entiled to my opinion so here it is:

I feel trip reports are for issues concerning travel, culture, customs, agency reports, crime, airlines flights, food, whether you got the runs and if the crapper worked in the flat, ect. Anything related to a particular girl or guy's behavior in a relationship is superfluous.  I've never understood this mentality of spilling the personal details of a trip. Johnnydudeman said it best: It's self-indulgent and feeds only the poster's ego. (I notice diplomacy is not his strong point either....but truth is.)

As for arguing it's useful to see how these girls react for cultural reasons, ect, thats nonsense. As Zoid so succinctly points out: everyone is different. Guess what Tonto?...that includes the squaws. How one guy's girl acts around him has no relation to how other guy's girls will act around them. There are at least two variables involved and that alone makes it heap difficult to draw any meaniful comparison. The sooner you realize women are women everywhere the sooner you'll get somewhere in your own travels.

The only one's who're interested in intimate personal details of a guy's trip are the real losers. Who cares who slept with who or what she said, he said? Who cares about such fluff? Come on, only true MOB losers want to live vicariously. Those details are (or should be) meaningless to the rest of us. Tell me, Dances With Lemmings...which tribe do you belong to?

Ok, I was hard on the kid. It was wrong, my bad. I'm not known for my diplomacy and I said nothing during his first few "reports" but I can only take so much. Seems others also agree with me. Ashamed? You bet. Ashamed when a guy spends big wampum to go over (vacation or not) and then acts like an babe in the woods or worse, cluelessly tells the world about it. Trust me, I did the guy a favor.

Trip exepriences are fine but they should be devoid of personal crap. Why anyone would expose the personal details of their life to a bunch of yahoos on an Internet BB is beyond me, unless it's purely for their own gratification. Such details are otherwise useless, they only serve to stoke the image of what inept bozos many men really are. This was aptly demonstrated by a certain schmuck who was/is so insecure he needs to constantly inform the world of his "luck" even after it became known to an informed few he had scraped the bottom of the barrel.

Ever notice how others keep a low profile? Dan, KenC, Zink, even 'ol Oscar there. Some are the most respected posters here, how much personal info do you hear from them? And this is after they married. Pros will never regurgitate personal details, they know better. As  Zink said, it's a question of privacy, and it doesn't have to be your wife either. Course, if a guy doesn't respect his own privacy he can't be expected to respect the women's eh? Who's business is it anyway? What's in *your* wallet?

It's odd you seem to know all this and yet don't see the problem with it.
And if you're not doing it because you're afraid you'll get beat on, thats not the proper reason. I'm open to disscusion on this but so far I see nothing useful about dispensing intimate or personal aspects of what a guy did regarding the women he married or met during a trip. Keep it useful as it relates to what others have to deal with when their time comes. Otherwise, yer just blowin smoke.

Btw, since you consider me a loser I might as well get me some of that gratification and remind you I have an exotic young squeeze, one of the most respected and well paid jobs in America, a million dollar teepee thats paid for, my own jet, summer digs abroad, and lots of other things that make me *no* better than anyone else....including (gosh!) you. However,  I certainly don't fall into the "Gee Wally" school of thinking so prevalent here, a tribe that includes too many indians and not enough chiefs.

lol....*now* I feel better.

... in response to lesson for cherokee...., posted by LP on Aug 22, 2003

n/t

... in response to lesson for cherokee...., posted by LP on Aug 22, 2003

I have read some great trip reports on here.  There is something to be learned and some are a great read.  Some are truly memorable.  Some are a wealth of info and impressions which I like.  Geno's was not one of these, for me.  A rough read.  But,  he can post it and each reader will decide if they want to continue reading.  One can reply or take a "pasadena" on reading further.  Like all things in life...some are better than others.  I can't say that I learned a thing from his posts,  other than,  for me it was a poor read.  Others may like it.  Its only and internet BB.

... in response to lesson for cherokee...., posted by LP on Aug 22, 2003

Actually i didn't read all the thread, after i saw the guy on the ropes i went home. it looked like Custard's last stand.
I'm not into offending anyone, I just call it like i see it and if you got offended well then I'm sorry for that. Its really hard to give your opinion on someone elses life and experiences especially when all you see are words on a screen. You can be mislead by your own version of his story. What you thought happened.... when actually you may have mis-interpreted the events or come to false conclusions. Just like alot of people do toward you and your comments.
But I respect your point of view, i was just posting mine.

Peace Kemosabe

... in response to indian in-law, posted by cherokee on Aug 23, 2003

...offended Tonto, nor am I easily impressed. But you have accomplished the latter with your powerful medicine. You choose to forgo war paint and called upon the Great Spirits to make your point. Alas, my wise-ass is no match for their wisdom and tactics. Your logic is sound and I find your reply to be difficult to refute or ignore. Beaten at my own game, I shall carry your advice until I go Big Sky...

PS: I've been to the Little Bighorn Memorial twice. Although they have ice cream, I've never seen any Custard stands. ;)

... in response to I'm not easily...., posted by LP on Aug 23, 2003

I never intended to match wits with you. me can'tum hang with superior white man.

... in response to lesson for genoramix, posted by cherokee on Aug 22, 2003

Genoramix or anybody for that matter.I respect him greatly for posting his trip reports and taking his time to do it whether he had time or not to do it....
I am truelly grateful to him for providing his story so I could read it and follow up with my own and read everyone else's opinions...I'm one who just happened to think the trip he expressed seemed like a Disney Play-House Adventure but that doesn't make it right or wrong...

I wish him and everyone the best and may all their dreams come true...I have nothing against anyone personally...
I think the follow-ups by everybody was a very healthy reading experience which seems to be how this place works...Everyone comparing and sharing their thoughts...And,then I guess,all of us developing our own opinions and style after all has been said and done....We're all pretty lucky to have this place to do whatever we choose with it....

My expressed post had to do with my "opinions" about what I was reading (which everyone knows what they say about opinions...including mine....;)
Before my first trip or even my first correspondence with a lady,I was fortunate to know about this site and had all the available informations about so many topics available to myself.

I read things here whether in agreement or not to the posters,that I would never had even thought about.It saved me a lot of grief and spared me imense time,money,problems and so much more...Whether I agreed or not,I was the beneficiary of topics and opinions I'd never thought of myself....

I don't think anyone here hates each other here.We all have so much in common or we wouldn't even be reading here...People always have differing opinions...it'd be a boring world and this a boring site if that was not true and we all were 100% alike.Who cares what one believes is right or wrong...We ALL benefit from this place just by being able to read all the experiences and opinions expressed here...

... in response to lesson for genoramix, posted by cherokee on Aug 22, 2003

That's one the reasons I did not post my recent trip report. Even prior to going I was criticized quite a bit. I hardly come here now. I used to come quite a bit for advice which WAS very helpful but whenever I put something that was an actual EXPERIENCE I was slammed. I am happily engaged & will be marrying next month. I don't need to be called an idiot because I proposed to my fiancee on my first visit to see her (and on the SECOND day I was there!;-)).
In any case now my slam of this poor guy! LOL!!!! What WAS his reason for going?! Doesn't appear it was to find a wife.

... in response to Re: lesson for genoramix, posted by Frank O on Aug 22, 2003

need to be the primary reason? I know of many Europeans that travel to Russia for a vacation and maybe meet a nice girl. Just because a guy doesn't treat dating as a highly organized business venture doesn't mean he's doing it wrong.  I had more success when I wasn't so serious about the searching.

I never posted about my last couple of trips because I have almost no spare time and I respect my wife's privacy. I never was worried about criticism because I could care less what the majority of the critics think of me. But I know many guys that won't post here because of it and the girls usually give up quickly after they're attacked for their opinions.

... in response to Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 22, 2003

nt

... in response to Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 22, 2003

Zink,
Didn't know you got married. Congratulations.
What city is she from? Far East?
Good luck.
WmGO

... in response to Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by WmGo on Aug 23, 2003

Thanks, William. I've been married for 2 months but my wife is still living in Vladivostok. The Canadian government abolished the fiance visa after 9/11. So to bring a lady over Canadians must be married first. I'll be heading back over there in about a month and staying for a few months. Hopefully we'll have her visa application in soon after I arrive. We were delayed because she changed her name to mine and had to redo all her passports and other identification documents. I was going to post a detailed report of my trials and tribulations to get married but just haven't got around to it yet.

... in response to Re: Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 23, 2003

sdf

... in response to Re: Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 23, 2003

nt

... in response to Re: Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 23, 2003

....I didn't miss your mention of this news in a post a month or so back but you made the comment so low key, I'd thought I'd wait until you offered it again.

Vlad, eh? A great city, my first contact was from there. A young beauty who was so sincere I couldn't believe she was real. But as a newbie I turned tail and ran...turned out she was legit and we remain friends to this day. She ended up married to a Japanese guy twice her age and it's not going very well. I've no regrets, she was way too young and overly romantic. She would spend her days reading romance novels and was a bit detached from reality. I guess she found out married life ain't quite like her books.

Was fun to meet her though and I've never met anyone quite like her since, I remember it as quite an introduction to this "business".

Good luck to you...

... in response to Yeah,  congrats Zinkman...., posted by LP on Aug 23, 2003

Well, I'm a fairly low key kind of guy. I don't care to go blowing my own horn and I get in less trouble when my mouth is shut. Right now I prefer giving advice on occassion more than writing my history. And I know my wife doesn't want me writing much more than technical info.

I like Vladivostok a lot. I know the city pretty well and wander all over unattended. Not the most exciting city in the world, but hey, I'm nowhere near as wild as I was 10 years ago. Funny part about my girl is that she's rock solid stable, very intelligent and sensible. Dumbest thing she did was get involved with me. Never thought I'd be the unstable one in a relationship. That's why I tell guys they don't have to put up with the flighty, gameplaying bs.

... in response to Re: Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 23, 2003

Man that's harsh.  I didn't know the Canadian government went to that extreme.  Especially since your country wasn't even attacked.  One of my wife's girlfriends is married to a Canadian and they got married over in Ukraine almost a year ago.  It's just been in the last month that she's finally gotten her visa.  I was wondering why he would get married instead of doing the fiancee visa. Now I understand. I don't think I could go that route without at least having the lousy 90 days (to live with them first) they allow us here in the states.  Best of luck to you both.

Mark

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by tbirdjoy on Aug 23, 2003

Our government was very sensitive to being accused as the gateway for terrorists into the US. Now we have some of the strictest immigration and visa controls in the world. Not that they were all that slack before the attacks. But there are always loopholes that can't be closed.

I'm not thrilled about being married to a woman that doesn't really know about life here. I'd have liked the 90 day trial period. But we had our reasons for it and we'll deal with what comes as it happens. Still I lived with her and her mother for 10 weeks so we do know each other fairly well.

... in response to Re: Re: Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 23, 2003

Zink, let me join Wm in congratulating you and your new spouse on your good fortune. Look forward to your report.

... in response to Does finding a wife..., posted by Zink on Aug 22, 2003

NT

... in response to Re: lesson for genoramix, posted by Frank O on Aug 22, 2003

I felt the same way on my trip report as well. I ended up writing and posting a trip report but it was very short. I tried to make sure there was nothing in it that I could get blasted for. At the time, I thought to myself, how sad and I am sure there are many others that feel the same way. My original intention was to do a very detailed report, starting from the beginning. I have even kept a sort of diary of everything I did and why I did it. It does not mean it is the correct way to do it, it would have only showed people how I did it. In the end I decided against posting it because I KNEW parts of it would get blasted by people and I am not on here to defend myself. I want to be here to share my story and read about others as well as maybe making new friends. Maybe I am too sensitive but I hate it when I see personal attacks on people that are just trying to share their story.

Now, having said this, I do not imply that all critism is bad. Far from that. I feel critism is needed to keep things balanced. The problem is sometimes critism turns into personal attacks. That's when people tend to crawl away and no longer post. For awhile, this group was doing very good. Lately there have been very few trip reports and the reason is simple. Most people are probably afraid to.

I just wish people would step back and not personally attack anyone that doesn't do this the "textbook" way. I was happy to see an apology from LP on his post. Then other posts he was able to get his point across without personally attacking the poor guy. I saw some very good information in those posts. Others posted good info as well but some people resorted to personal attacks. No wonder there are very few trip reports on here.

Listen, there is no right way or wrong way in doing this. I tried to say this before in many posts. Yes, I agree there are some things you can do to increase your chances. There are also things you can do that will make any chance at success a fat chance in hell. Overall, we are all humans and last time I checked we are all different. Just because someone failed doing it one way, doesn't mean everyone else will fail the same way. Just because one person can tell, within a few minutes, if they want to continue or not, does not mean everyone has to do the same. I for one believe people have bad days but that is up to the two people involved to decide.

I am only saying this because 2 others posted saying why they do not like to post here. I am a 3rd and I am sure there are more out there. I know you are all trying to help out and make sure we don't make a mistake. It is good to have people care like that. All I am saying is to please try to leave constructive criticism, not the personal attacks that sometimes happen.

Z.