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After my visit to Kiev, some of the local former
CIS women I know suddenly became more interested
in me.  I'm now dating a woman from Kherson
named Lydia, who is here on a green card working
as a nurse.  Last night I had an interesting
discussion with her and some of her friends
about what they thought about American men in
general.  All of them commented:

AM are jealous and controlling of their women
and become angry if another man speaks to them

AM do not dress properly, are not "hygenic"
(clean cut, shaven, use cologne, etc.) are
overweight and do not eat "proper foods"

AM only want sex and have no interest in knowing
and understanding a UW/RW and her "soul" and
culture, nor learning her language

AM try to make UW/RW feel they are not capable
of doing anything without the AM's help,
treating the woman like she was a child


Any of these complaints sound familiar to guys
who have had problems with their UW/RW?  There
were other comments as well, but these were the
main issues.  Incidentally, more than a few guys
were staring at these women, but none of them
had the balls to walk up and introduce
themselves like gentleman.  Just a lot of
staring, like these women were exotic zoo
animals.  No wonder they are still single!
Beautiful women truly are the loneliest people
in the world.  How sad.

Cal

... in response to CIS women's view of American men in gene..., posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

Been lurking for quite a while. Just got the password and permissions to post-so Hi! I've got to comment on this one.

It's tough coming to a different country with different languages, social values and behaviors. The AMs have to help the RWs at least until they learn the language and their way around the new culture. So that's going to appear as if they are treating the RWs as children.

AMs have some of the most amped up sex drives in the world. No brag, just fact! LOL Blame the media. If the AMs didn't act that way, then the RWs would think the AMs were wimps. And the RMs are interested in an RWs "soul" HA!

Yes, we are more casual about our dress code. I think it's an evolutionary thing. Look at the US in the 50s. More people dressed more "properly". But our lifestyle has changed. We dress appropriate to what we're doing. Many RWs would have us wear a suit to work on the car in, just to keep the prestige factor high. They need a reality check.

AMs are jealous and controlling. Helping the RW with everything she needs to do because she's in a new, unfamiliar country could appear to be controlling. Becomes angry if another man talks to the RW. Of course, she's beautiful and we all know why that other guy is talking to her. It's not to exchange recipes.

The RWs need to think it out a bit more and have a LOT more understanding of the situation they've put themselves in, and develop their skills at adapting. They're in a different country. It's not going to change into a copy of Russia just because they're feeling a little out of place and homesick.

... in response to CIS women's view of American men in gene..., posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

Cal,
Let me get this right - first, the FSU ladies say they don't like the men from their own countries because they drink too much, work too little, don't make enough money money to satisfy their needs, f--- around on them too much, and don't treat them right in general.  So they come here hoping to find men that don't drink and do work - and now they have a whole new set of complaints.

There may be an small element of truth to what they say, but these women are pretty hard to please.  My exposure to FSU women has given me some insight as to why so many FSU men drink so hard.

... in response to Re: CIS women's view of American men in ..., posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 25, 2003

Generalities aside, if you treat any woman like she is a princess, you'll end up with a demanding princess.  Hey, I've been there, done that with my first-any-only ex-wife. I married a spoiled, financially incompetent cheerleader with a fetish for anything Arabic and she finally lived her fantasy.  Oops!  She was my Waterloo and I swore I would spend the next five years figuring out women.  Lucky me, it only took 3. I know now I was a complete idiot.  May still be, who knows!!!

If you are the kind of guy who likes to spoil women, you're as stupid as I was.  No offense man, I know how hard it is to say "no" to beautiful women, especially when the sex is great, but if you don't stand your ground and think for yourself, you're nothing but a doormat.  Now at the first sign of attitude from a woman, I tell her she's out of line.  If she does it again, I dump her and move on.  If you tolerate bad behavior instead of setting boundaries you'll get a b1tchy, complaining, hard to please princess, who will disrespect you and eventually leave.

Please don't take my word for ANYTHING:

http://www.fastseduction.com

Cal

... in response to Depends on the woman *and* the man, does..., posted by Cal on Aug 26, 2003

Actually, I totally agree with this post - in order to have  any hope of success with an FSU woman, you had better be strong and assertive or they will walk all over you.  These women are tough and demanding.  But even if you are assertive, it does not guarantee a successful relationship with one of these ladies.

But go back and reread your first post.  Ladies' complaints: AM are jealous and controlling, don't pay enough attention to their own physical appearance, want too much sex with her (this is bad?), try to help too much(!) and end up making her feel too dependent.  

If a man were to take these complaints to heart, she'd then probably complain that he didn't care enough about her to be jealous, is too vain and spends too much time on his own appearance, he isn't a good lover and can't satisfy her, and he doesn't take care of her and show responsibility like a husband should.  In other words, he's not 'manly' enough for her!  And I've heard the some FSU women complain that FSU men drink too much, and then complain that AM work too hard and don't like to go out and party enough - go figure!

Women are very often irrational and can be hard to please, regardless of their cultural background.  But each is different, and individual differences far outweigh cultural ones.  That's why every man on this board should remember that the downside of choosing poorly is significant.

... in response to Re: Depends on the woman *and* the man, ..., posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 27, 2003

n/t

... in response to Depends on the woman *and* the man, does..., posted by Cal on Aug 26, 2003

Michael was walking down the beach in California early one morning and noticed in the distance a man in a long robe coming toward him surrounded by a white light.  It was God, who said to him, "Michael, you are a good man, contributed, helped others, and are to be rewarded.  What can I give you."  Michael told God that his wife's favorite place was Hawaii, but was afraid to fly, and if possible, he would like a road constructed there so they could drive there.

God thought for a moment, scratched his head thinking of how to construct a bridge across thousands of miles of open ocean.  Michael, seeing this, apologised and said, "God, I think I have asked for too much.  Instead, just tell me everything there is to know about women.  When they say something, what do they mean, how do they think, and why do they think that way.  Tell me everything about them."  God replied, "Would you like that two lane or four."

... in response to Re: Depends on the woman *and* the man, ..., posted by Globetrotter on Aug 27, 2003

1

... in response to Re: CIS women's view of American men in ..., posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 25, 2003

ggg

... in response to "but these women are pretty hard to..., posted by Stevo on Aug 25, 2003

...this from the man who's trophy wife "adores him in every way"? lol, just wait....it'll get better as the years go by.

I find these women easy to please, even easier than A/W. Maybe I'm just more careful in my selection or more knowledgable about doing it. It ain't rocket science ya know, just treat them the way you'd like to be treated...that means coming down hard on them when they misbehave and finding another one if neccesary.

Oops, I forgot...you're stuck with the one you got ;-)

... in response to "but these women are pretty hard to..., posted by Stevo on Aug 25, 2003

n/t

... in response to CIS women's view of American men in gene..., posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

OK, just where are you in the USA, and more importantly where are those hot RW's??
thanks

... in response to Re: CIS women's view of American men in ..., posted by petem on Aug 25, 2003

Louisville, Kentucky.  A few hours from Chicago, a few hours from Indianapolis and a few hours from Nashville.  So far I've met about a dozen women from Eastern europe, all very pleasant and friendly.  Any city over 500,000 will have a good supply.  My secret to having met them was  ridiculously simple - I joined the gym at the local jewish community center.  My Russian friend suggested this and also introduced me to quite a few of the women he was able to "spot" as eastern european.  Now I can do that too! :^)

Cal

... in response to Re: Re: CIS women's view of American men..., posted by Cal on Aug 26, 2003

thanks,
I live in wash DC, there are many here too,
I am currently dating a woman from MAcedonia. The simularities b/t her and the russians I have met a amazing, but don't tell her that, she hates russians

... in response to CIS women's view of American men in gene..., posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by wsbill]

A little some independance and this is what you will be hearing...

Women are not single just because of their beautiful looks alone.

Come to think of it, it's probably wise your dating/marrying a younger lady as her values have yet to be really established, unlike someone in her late 20's and early 30's, who are no doubt getting more and more a custom to Western life and their material wish list.

Those that have been married prior, have experience with how to deal with a man.

of course, as they say mileage may vary.

... in response to CIS women's view of American men in gene..., posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

..the idea is to be the exception.

... in response to CIS women's view of American men in gene..., posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

Well, I'm thin & clean cut & am learning Russian so I guess that excludes me!!! LOL!! I heard a LOT of the same. Many said AM were arrogant & many were UGLY. One of the main complaints I heard were of overweight, balding, middle age, men wanting to go out with girls ages 18-21 who looked like supermodels. I found this to be true after I corresponded with several men & met several men (translators) & ladies from Ukraine. Funny thing is I guess I'm not a spring chicken as I'm 34 years old but many of the girls thought I was 24 so that was cool. By the way my fiancee is 18. I guess that's a signal to let the flaming begin?

... in response to Re: CIS women's view of American men in ..., posted by Frank O on Aug 23, 2003

Hey I'm a little past shelf life myself at 38!  But I'm active and fit and have been learning Russian for about a year now.  Keep up the good work. Pazdravlyayoo!

As for the 18 year olds, don't worry too much about the flaming, but yeah you did bait the hook.  Honestly to a lot of people, age differences are not as important as long as there is a real connection. My friend Michael got married to a 20 year old American girl when he was 41.  They just had their second child, been married for 5 years now.

Love doesn't know age, the real question is can you grow together instead of growing apart.  Have fun!

Cal

... in response to Good man!, posted by Cal on Aug 23, 2003

Well, I have to be honest I didn't expect kudos ;[)) Age DIDn"T matter with her but it obviously mattered with the other ladies as they were really NOT ready to marry regardless of what they said. When we met it was obvious they weren't. The first one, Marina, who I saw in November I was ready & when I gave her the fiancee visa papers she balked at it. I moved on QUICK!!! I'm not playing games. I realized during that trip that I could have basically MY pick of the ladies there. For an ugly guy I guess I do pretty good. Must be all the training as a musician ;-) or perhaps the long hair & leather;))) With Diana there was something different from the FIRST letter she wrote me. She seemed adament that we should meet. She was VERY persistent. It felt good to have a girl more than reciprocate. She even got a little ticked when I told her I had received well over 60 responses to my ad (thanks for Jack & Galina!). I set her straight REALLY quick on that. But in the end when I visited her things were weird as I had just gotten off the tour with Jennifer & had to try to salvage my trip. In any case I went to see her alone & it was PERFERCT from the word go!! It just felt right. It was as if we didn't have to break the ice. We knew each other. I met her family & hit if off great. I was almost instantly treated like family from the first night. I spent it at their house & got to see how they lived etc. Great family!!! I was NOT going to waste time. I knew during dinner she was it. When I met my first wife I new within the first hour of meeting her she was it. We were engaged 3 weeks after. Before anyone knocks me for my divorce with my first wife let me tell you we BOTH are musicians. she's a singer I'm a guitarist. She pursued her career & we had no children so it was VERY amicable yet VERY painful. IN any case I'm very happy. I also WILL be getting married in Ukraine. I plan on having a LOT of fun!!!;-)))))

... in response to Re: Good man!, posted by Frank O on Aug 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...read your own post again very carefully (especially the first two thirds) and then think hard about it...

... in response to Hey  Frank....., posted by LP on Aug 24, 2003

NT

... in response to Re: CIS women's view of American men in ..., posted by Frank O on Aug 23, 2003

Shame on me too. My girl is also an 18 y.o. model. Actually I was aiming for a 25+, but after browsing thousands, writing to over 50, narrowing down to 20, then 10, then 5, it came to her. I am treading cautiously and in no hurry to propose, maybe after a few more trips. Sounds like you're getting married in UKraine? Congrats and I hope she gets here pronto.

BTW I know a few of those overweight, balding, middle age AM who are wonderful husbands to their RW, far better than their RM counterparts. But, as always, a lot of men go crazy in the candy store and fall flat on their faces, then comes the sob stories on PL board.

... in response to Shame on you............, posted by Cold Warrior on Aug 23, 2003

psych!!! Funny thing though or perhaps not. But Diana looks a LOT like my ex wife. My cousin saw pics of us & when he saw her he had a puzzled look on his face. He said "did you go to Ukraine to see Linda perform at an opera & hook up again?". LOL!!!! Linda herself thought it funny & had a laugh about it. All my friends though thought I was seeking a younger version of Linda. However when you like short, girls with a lot of curves & long black hair in Urkaine....well you get the pic there will be MANY that fit THAT description. Took me a while to adjust to the bra less thing though. I didn't mind though;-))