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in a massive firefight in Crawford, Texas.  America is, of course, totally demoralized and abject surrender is expected.  Jubilation abounds in the Arab street.

Oh.  Excuse me.  I got it backward.  Sadaam Hussein's sons are believed to be dead and the abject surrender of Islamic fundamentalists. now that they know just whom they are f*ing with, must certainly be imminent!

God help us!  How many Americans must die for Halliburton and Israel?

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Well every omlet requires the breaking of eggs.   I guess we will see a few more egg shells before this is over and the people of Iraq are allowed to eat in peace.

Robert D.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Now, perhaps: an America-first coalition?

How's this: you can be 'lucky Lindy, N. Thomas or Col. McCormick?'

Best, Vaughn

... in response to A bright fellow - on the left - lives..., posted by BURKE89 on Jul 23, 2003

I would choose to be three parts Barry Goldwater and two parts Thomas Jefferson.

It is interesting to look at how the concepts of "liberalism" and "conservatism", "left" and "right", have changed over the years.  My core beliefs have not changed.  I have always believed in limited government, fiscal responsibility, and will fight any attempt to limit personal freedom.  Thirty years ago I was a moss-backed conservative.  Now I am a wild-eyed liberal.

The "conservatives" of today have created mega-bureaucracy
that marches lock-step toward mindless conformity under the mantra of "homeland security" and are hell-bent on bankrupting the nation by combining massive tax cuts with the largest expansion of entitlement programs since the "Great Society".  As another liberal is fond of saying, "But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong."

If that doesn't get this thread deleted, I give up!  :-)

Your post was dashing, by the way.

... in response to None of the above...., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

you must be related to the finest man in D.C./East Texas: Ron Paul.

'Tis a shame most can't distinquish between liberty vs servitude, unlike yourself.

Only the thunder...

... in response to Mr. Comma says..., posted by BURKE89 on Jul 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin redux]

His Neocon speech is a "must read" for thoughtful Americans.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

I am glad to see Sadaam's sons confirmed dead.  With Osama and Sadaam very possibly still alive and still able to incite hatred towards the US it is good to KNOW that we finally got some of the bad guys.

That said, I think I get the point of your satire.  The point I think you were trying to make is that to millions of Iraqis, Sadaam’s sons aren't seen as the sadistic murderers that we see them as in the US but as family members of what they consider their legitimate government. So the point of the satire using the Bush daughters is very accurate in that aspect. Many Muslims are not seeing us as liberators despite Sadaam’s repressive and murderous regime and to them every action we take against Sadaam fuels their hatred toward us.

... in response to Re: Bush's daughters brutally slaughtere..., posted by lswote on Jul 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by Cold Warrior]

Most Iraqis hated Saddam. There were celebrations in Iraq last night with fireworks and AK-47's being fired into the air on hearing of Uday and Qusay's death. However, most Iraqis now want an Islamic state and American attempts to impose a Western style democracy upon Iraq will put us on a collision course.

Iswote ...I'm glad to hear that your wife is OK and you have sorted out the bills. Congratulations on the baby. Good Luck.

... in response to Wrong........, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

I wish I was wrong, but I submit the following quote supporting what I said that shows many Iraqis do feel Sadaam was their legitmate leader.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/23/international/worldspecial/23CND-IRAQ.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5043&en=7a1ab1b9f1a77dc8&ex=1059624000&partner=EXCITE

"Mr. Ali and other Falluja police officers dismissed the idea that attacks on American forces would abate any time soon. Mr. Ali himself said he was saddened to hear about the possibility of the deaths because "they were the president's sons." He said he was sure that others who felt as he did would fight the Americans with renewed fervor."

... in response to I wish I was, posted by lswote on Jul 23, 2003

there are Iraqis glad to be rid of Hussein, and there are other Iraqis who are supporters of Hussein.  There are probably more supporters of us in Iraq than in the Arab world in general, but that support is diminishing in both locations.  It is my belief that we are in a trap of our own making, with a little help from our "friends".

... in response to I wish I was, posted by lswote on Jul 23, 2003

Most of Iraq hates Saddam. The area around Mosul and Tikrit are pro-Saddam since they are from his tribe and his birthplace. Most the attacks on US forces are around this area, the republican guards and most of the ex-ministers were also from Mosul. I came back after Baghdad fell, i can vouch that the south and the Kurds in the north absolutely hates Saddam.

... in response to Wrong........, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...."most Iraqis now want an Islamic state and American attempts to impose a Western style democracy upon Iraq will put us on a collision course."

Thats becoming pretty obvious, no surprise there. Nor is it any surprise that Iraq is developing into the chronic longterm, low intensity conflict many predicted. Our people are dying in Afghanistan every week and it's been years.

I tend to stay outta political discussions because people tend only to focus on the present and fail to consider cause and effect. I'm not liberal, just logical.

Saddam would have been better off left alone, he'd have died soon enough. In my opinion he's a far greater threat today than he was a year ago. And it's not our job to punish dictators who oppress their own people, the USA has no right being the world's policeman. And if it thinks it does it's doing a pretty piss poor job of it, there are far greater loonies to go after...like Bush. It's us who needs a regime change, America's arrogance stands as the greatest threat to world peace today.

As as far as Saddam's boys, better start thinking about how he's gonna feel about it and stop caring how everyone else sees it. We just killed the guy's children after invading his country for smoke and mirror reasons. He's still out there along with Osama and thousands of others willing to take their places. To say we're only hardening their resolve is an understatement.

The end did not justify the means. We're gonna pay dearly for all this in the future, there is *no* defense against people who are singleminded and determined to have their pound of flesh. The Israelis still haven't learned that. Whether it's drugs, prostitution or occupation of other countries, history shows increased enforcement and attempts to impose your will upon a people only lead to bigger problems. The past will be nothing compared to the stuff to come. Even when you're a thousand times their size, if you poke a hornet's nest you're gonna get badly stung. It's typical American arrogance that prevents our so-called leaders from understanding this.

Btw, see where 'ol Idi Amin is on his deathbed? Another one about to bite the dust. Him and Pol Pot were true bad guys and we did nothing. That just leaves North Korea and a whole bunch of others. What a shame, so many despots and so little time.

And what was up with the Jessica Lynch media circus? What a dog and pony show that was...

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

In Baghdad I spoke to some marines who entered Uday’s house . He had some photographs of Bush’s daughters in his bedroom. Also found was a log book documenting the rape of hundreds of Iraqi girls aged 12-16 by Uday. They were raped to the strains of Beethoven’s moonlight sonata. They all received a few thousands dollars in jewellery as a gift from Uday to stop the tears.

... in response to Beethoven’s moonlight sonata......, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

and I don't regret their deaths.

When I first heard the news on CNN it was presented as a victory that would hasten the end of the war.  My post was a clumsy effort to say that all we have done is strengthen the resolve of our enemy.

... in response to I don't think they were good guys....., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

Before the war I did post here my reservations about why we were going in. We all know that Israel and Halliburton form part of the equation. My own personal conviction was that we had to do this sooner or later. Saddam was too dangerous to be left in power. IMHO we should withdraw as soon as possible and leave nation building to the Iraqis. As I say before on this forum, attempts to bring democracy to Iraq is a waste of time. The people want an Islamic state, as do nearly all Muslim states. About time some US politicians went to Iraq and see the daily demonstrations calling for an Islamic state.

... in response to Re: I don't think they were good guys......, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin redux]

not having said it as well.

This is the edit/addendum:

I did not favor starting this "pre-emptive" war and did not believe it was something we would eventually have to do, but that's all moot now.

We're there.  We need to bring this to an honorable conclusion as quickly as possible and it is in that respect I believe we are in agreement.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Liberals are so predictable.  Good news for the US is bad news for them.

... in response to I hope your account gets pulled, posted by BubbaGump on Jul 23, 2003

Patriotism is much more than symbols.  The tattered flag on your antenna doesn't make you a patriot.  Your willingness to stand up for the right to speak of someone you disagree with is a very good indication of how much of an American you really are.

If you're unwilling to do that, then you'd best leave it, because you damn sure don't have a clue what loving it means.

... in response to I bet you know a lot of ways to cook shr..., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by Michael B]

Like many, you seem to confuse your right to speak with others' obligation to provide you a forum (others, including Patrick, have no such obligation). Just because you can stand on a soap box in the park and shout all you like, doesn't mean anybody has to listen to you and it sure doesn't mean the manager of an auditorium (or an internet group) has to give you use of their facility.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Whatever your view is, I don't believe this is a political board and your post should be placed elsewhere.

I hope you will at least respect everybody's time here by posting only relevent topics to eastern European relationships with the good people who have dialog on this board for this purpose.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

I must be using too many commas.

The "wrong forum" criticism is accurate.  From now on if my thought doesn't have something to do with Gog, Magog or the investment potential of double-wide manufacturers, I'll try to refrain from posting it.

... in response to When only one out of eight gets it....., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

your post is as relevant as the recent posts on Gog of Magog and the like.  The religious threads repeatedly surface here and are tolerated.  I think you should keep posting as you wish.

... in response to Re: Gog of Magog, posted by Richard on Jul 23, 2003

Richard,

The Gog-Magog posts are board relevant
because the majority of eschatologists
believe that Gog-Magog refers to *Russia*.

Anything to do with Russia is relevant
to this forum. All of the other political
stuff that seems to constantly crop up
is a waste of space IMHO. There are plenty
of other forums for political debate. Some
people like me consider such to be a waste
of time given the futility and irrelevance
of arguing with cyber strangers. On the other
hand, if kept relevant this board can be of
interest and assistance to those interested
in Russia and the Former Soviet Union.

WmGO

... in response to Relevance of Gog of Magog, posted by WmGo on Jul 23, 2003

Hmmm, with that kind of logic, it could be argued that Griffin's post is totally relevant too since it refers to the US and many of the men seeking foreign wives are Americans and thus anything to do with the US is relevant to this forum.

But that kind of logic aside, if I had my drothers I would rather see satire like Griffin’s posted on this site than I would see biblical ramblings.  Even people who believe that kind of stuff find trying to make sense of theological writings with clouded meanings a difficult task and I don’t  see how someone’s biblical interpretations, and that is all they are, interpretations, have any more relevance to this site than Griffin’s post.

At least Griffin’s post had a certain kind of sick humor to it as opposed a talk of Gog and Magog, which was so boring it sort of wanted to make me Magag.

... in response to ... or irrelevance, posted by lswote on Jul 24, 2003

..from the LATIN board.
Under discussian was the future of RUSSIA.
If a topic like this "bores" you, why come here?

... in response to Welcome to the RUSSIAN board..., posted by tfcrew on Jul 24, 2003

I am finding that foreign wives from ANY country have much in common and don't restrict myself to just the Latin board.

And to answer your question, maybe I LIKE to magag.

... in response to Thanks, posted by lswote on Jul 24, 2003

I like to gog around too and don't really want to over-do it.
I hope your lady is doing OK and is recovered.
(I read the latin board too)
Karl

... in response to ... or irrelevance, posted by lswote on Jul 24, 2003

I cannot support any "gag" rule.     :-)

... in response to Whatever floats your boat....:-)     N/T, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

FSUW = HOT!

... in response to That would be FSUW....:-)     , posted by WmGo on Jul 24, 2003

when one the primary attractions of FSUW, for me at least, is their curves.  :-)

Welcome back!

... in response to That would be FSUW....:-)     , posted by WmGo on Jul 24, 2003

.......... with us "Non-unequally yoked" batchelors when you catch up on the last couple of weeks  :-)  LOL  Glad to see that the Seek Ye .... has been sharing a "open eye" approach ! Waiting, waiting, waiting .....

... in response to When only one out of eight gets it....., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

1) Used the brief governorship for a springboard to the presidency.
2) Left it in a $10 billion  deficit.

Oh I got it.
His Israel policy?...stepping on his face at 80 miles an hour.
& Griff, your lead post was a bit florid, and maybe had too many commas ;)

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

You have my deepest sympathies on the tragic loss of your fellow America-haters, Odai & Qusai.

Just one question: why is it that a good day for America always has to be a bad day for liberals??? I never could figure that one out :-)

Now I think I’ll go celebrate. Care to join me?  ROTFFLMGDAO!

Ray

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

nice satire (if that's the correct term), wrong board to post it on.  (Don't get me wrong, I did like it.)

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Typical liberal: equating young girls with mass murdering
despotic, satanic dictators. Absolutely brilliant - and manly.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Ah, so you are against the bible and progress.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

There were those against the war in WW11.   The French and British public did nothing while Germany armed over 10 years in violation of the treaty that ended WW1.  The did nothing, and we did nothing.  There were ecos in the dark saying, lets intervene before Germany gets too strong.  We did nothing.  So they followed your advice, and there were many who accused those who wanted to take care of Germany while we  could, as being interested only in making money.  So more than 30 million dead, later, well, perhaps you do not know your history.  That was the costs of delay in the face of obvious danger.  
   If we have not learned anything from 9/11, we should learn how fragile our way of life and economy are to terror.  Some who dislike us do not need nukes to drop, just nuke waste, easy to find and transport.  Explode that in New York or another  place, and our econonmy would die, at the prospect of evactuation of entire cities.  No one would have to die, (except one idiot terrorist) but the fear and economic impact would be terrible.  It will not take years for those that hate us to have this capabilities, they almost have it now.  And it will not take 30 million dead to hurt us badly.  There will be other Iraqs as well there should have been the last 9 years when we did nothing to respond to the attacks on our cities and interest.  At some point you just have to say, enough, and I for one am glad we did.
    NOw to assure there is something in hear about Russian Woman,   I think they are beautiful.  
Robert D.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

where did this come from.  What does this have to do with Russian women?

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

I hope Patrick gets around to cleaning house again.

... in response to OK.  I'll go away.  Let me know when you..., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

n/t

... in response to Let us know when you grow some balls.  n..., posted by ChrisNJ on Jul 22, 2003

Guess they have first hand experience.

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

I wasn't aware Patrick wanted this to be a political site?

... in response to I thought this was a Forum for marriage, posted by Bubba on Jul 22, 2003

I of course support your right not to hear anything unsettling and to eschew your right to freely express yourself at every opportunity!

... in response to That was what my FSU wife said ...., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

point of view that was clever!!!!

I wish to ban everything well other than the exclamation point!!!!!!

... in response to That was what my FSU wife said ...., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

don't deserve a reponse. I am a proud Vietnam veteran who loves my country.

... in response to You think I don.t?  n/t, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

n/t

... in response to Yes I think you DON'T    n/t, posted by Bubba on Jul 22, 2003

or, "I DON'T think!"