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Marina was accompanying a gentleman for a few days last week. They met while she and her mother were at a bar drinking coffee together. He took them both home and asked my wife to be his social partner for a few days, while he was waiting for his wife to come home from vacation. Surprisingly, he was on the up and up, and my wife enjoyed a few days of fun with him and his circle of friends.

Of course, my wife was curious as to why he picked her when there were many younger, possibly prettier, and much more compliant women in the bar that night. A man such as himself (well off and good looking) could easily have had any of them, and in any way he wanted. He explained that she stood out from the crowd, and that she was different than all the other girls. Marina had become an enigma to him, and he found her "foreign ways" to be intriguing.

I find it humorous that the shoe is now on the other foot. As an American, I will always stand out in Ukraine, no matter how hard I try and fit in. Now Marina is starting to become more of a standout too. While she was always a standout before because of her youth and beauty, now against the younger girls, she still stands out because of her "foreign ways". She is an enigma to the Ukrainian male: a Ukrainian girl who isn't Ukrainian.

One good thing from her encounter is that she got a taste of true friendship, versus the "friendships" she's had all her life over there. Her regular "friends" tend to be manipulative or want to "one better" themselves at her expense. This gentleman and his circle of friends were truly friendly, and they enjoyed her presence as much as she enjoyed theirs. She even has the phone number of his friend's girlfriend, and they are to make plans to get together. Such a positive experience is certainly going to help her socialize more in the future.

Myself, I have mixed feelings regarding the encounter. There is, of course, a little jealousy that she's out having fun with somebody. Even though I trust her and her judgement, I still worry over her. Plus, the fact that she doesn't "fit in", causes me a little concern. People who don't fit in, tend to become targets of less than desireable people. Still, I am pleased that it has been such a positive experience for her. If she has found one good circle of friends, it will be easier for her to do so a second time.

All in all, it has been a positive experience for her. But it still has given us both some food for thought.

... in response to Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

I gotta say that I admire your candor and guts in taking the position you have. I would not feel comfortable doing a lot of the things you have done, but that does not mean this is wrong for you. Just try to appreciate that most people are on a different place on this subject.

As far as the culture thing, I am not sure how much that explains it. My wife is from Russia and she would kill me for doing a whole lot less.

Let me give you an example. When my wife and I were corresponding before my first trip to see her, I was good friends with a very cute 19 yo girl while I lived in Miami. We went to the same gym in the mornings and just became friends. There was nothing sexual about it. I was more of her big brother. She was so young and niave even for her age. Also she was from Minneapolis and that is a very different pace from Miami. Anyway, my protective instincts kicked in and I tried to look out for her. I would take her to dinner sometimes and sometimes we would go see a movie. Also we would have long conversations and I would give her advice on a variety of topics. This was all done as friends. I never tried to kiss her and she never tried anything with me. It was totally innocent.

Anyway, I told my wife about her in our letters and she was very quiet about it. I had nothing to hide and I did not know it would bother her. Yeah I know it sounds stupid, but I did not make the connection. Anyway, Ira put a quick stop to the meetings outside of the gym once I made my first visit and she could lay her claim on me. : ) Its not that my wife thinks I am untrustworthy. Its just that my friendship with this 19 yo girl was way past her comfort zone. I did not slow down my friendship with this girl because I was afraid something would happen. I just did it to be considerate of my wife's feelings.

My point is that a situation like yours is way past most people's comfort zone. I hope you can appreciate that fact. Just reread the posts if you don't believe me. If you and your wife can do this without either of you feeling bad, however, then more power to you.

Best of luck.

... in response to Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

John,
I am not trying to sound alarmist, but I would be more concerned than you regarding your situation with your wife. Personally, I feel that a man's wife should not be receptive to the advances of a another man who is a stranger, even if his intentions are innocent enough. This is out of respect to you and to your marriage with her. One thing that I have learned about FSU women is that they are VERY sensitive to the appearance of impropriety, and are concerned about the opinions of others and of the image they present. (I find this to be an attractive cultural trait.) Most FSU women wouldn't put themselves into a position that would invite gossip such as this situation might.

My ex always had male "friends" from her homeland and I trusted her in these friendships. I wanted to be open-minded and not be jealous at the time. However, now that we are legally separated, she is living with one of her "friends". While I do not believe that anything was going on during our marriage, it is clear that there was something more than just "friendship" between them. I now regard this as a red flag that our marriage was going in the wrong direction, along with the fact that my wife was inclined towards extended vacations away from me (3-6 months apart).

One of the great things about foreign-born women is that they still want men to be men, and to be women themselves. They want us to be strong and decisive, and to compliment them and to make them feel wanted and desired. John, you refer to your wife as if her youth and beauty were a thing of the past ("there were many younger, possibly prettier. . .women in the bar that night"). According to your profile, she is 22 or 23 years old! She is undoubtably flattered by the attentions of older, well off gentlemen (after all, she is married to you!) and this is natural. However, if she is meeting strangers in bars and taking up with them as a "social partner" for a few days & nights, and partying with his friends, this cannot be a positive sign. And I wonder if HIS wife would be as understanding as you are.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your marriage. However, I caution you to balance trust with keeping your eyes open.

... in response to Re: Strangers and trust, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 7, 2003

I talked with Marina last night. Reading and replying to all the comments here had been pretty draining and to a certain extent, I was a little depressed from brooding, by the time I called her. Marina picked up on it immediately and by the time I finished saying "Hi Baby, how are you doing?", she was wanting to know what was wrong and why was I so depressed.

I simply said that I had been thinking about the earlier time with the gentleman. "Why?" she asked, puzzled, "You know I wouldn't hurt you."

I explained that I trusted her, but one could possibly see a perception of illicit behaviour. Marina was confused, but as I reminded her of how my coworker, Kate, and I had changed our walking schedules to walk at separate times and cut down on our talks, it all came together for her. The light bulb went on and she became upset over what had originally been an innocent thing for her.

She promptly apologized for hurting me this way, and hastened to reassure me that she would never do anything to hurt me. She also apologized for being unfair to me as well.

Unfair? I was a bit confused over that one, but Marina had taken the thinking one step further than I had gone. Kate and I had changed our worktime behaviors, largely due to Marina's concerns over what people might think. By putting herself in a situation that could be perceived as questionable, she had effectively created a double standard. She had acted in a manner that was unfair to me and also to the standards of our relationship.

Marina is still strongly sensitive to how people perceive her, and this call was like a bombshell to her. The call ended up with both of us being depressed, and with her worrying about me and about how she must have presented herself.

While I feel justified in holding to my principles, the victory is a hollow one. To cause my wife such angst was not worth validating what I already knew to be true. I also now have to worry if it will cause Marina to become more antisocial again out of fear of "what people might think." I've already had enough problems with that over here. To compound it while she's on vacation means that when she comes home, I will now have bigger socialization hurdles to overcome with her. Again, I have probably done more damage than good...

... in response to Well, I thought I had heard everything....., posted by Yeahbaby on Jun 7, 2003

She did not go anywhere with him that wasn't a public venue. She did not "stay with him" at any time. She would meet him at a bar or restaurant, usually with his friends and drink, eat, tell jokes, dance and have fun. When it got late, she went home.

You are invited to join an intriguing person and his/her friends for a few days. You meet for a few days in a row in public venues with them. Some are married, some are engaged. They are courteous and friendly and nobody puts any pressure on you. While the initial person is married, they are not interested in any physical contact. They're just lonely and want someone to talk with and not look like the "odd man out" when they're out with their friends.

Hmmm, that sounds pretty damning to me...

... in response to The way you imply it is incorrect, posted by John K on Jun 7, 2003

Well John, I guess I have to ask, how do you know that is all that happened? As some others here have noted, most men whose wives are "out of town" and who are picking up strangers in bars have a bit more motivation than what you describe. I do know that I feel personally that both his and her behavior, even if that was all that was happening, was inappropriate for people who are married. Call me a cynic.
I told this story to my wife and asked her opinion. She said she would never put herself in that situation and felt it was not good at all for a married/engaged woman to do this. She then asked me a question- "If you (me) would ever consider doing this, which side of your head would you like me to hit you on with the frying pan?!".

Best of luck..

... in response to Re: The way you imply it is incorrect, posted by Yeahbaby on Jun 8, 2003

Never get on your lady's bad side! Seriously though, Marina does have some checks and balances over there. The biggest are her mother and grandmother. She's staying with them and they are crazy about me. If she ever even contemplated something less than proper, there'd be H*ll to pay.

In retrospect, Marina nor I contemplated the implications or perceptions generated by her hanging out with this man and his friends. She even later went out with the girl, her fiancé, and her sister to a bar for drinking and dancing. After your collective comments to me, and my discussing them with her, we both were troubled by how things had turned out.

I think it was a combination of Marina's naivetée and my inattention to detail, combined with my total trust in her, that caused us both to goof up. We don't worry about each other, and we trust each other to do the right thing. It may cause people to look at us in askance sometimes, but the end result is that it works. That's all that matters to me.

... in response to The way you imply it is incorrect, posted by John K on Jun 7, 2003

If your out with your close friends, why would you ever feel like the odd man out while your wife is away. My friends would never make me feel that way and I wouldn't. So, is this man that insecure with himself that he would feel this way? Probably not, he was secure enough with himself to pick up an attractive woman in a bar.

I don't know your wife and won't judge her in anyway because I don't know her. But the scenario just sounds wrong even if there was no ill intent on her part. Hopefully just bad judgement. The guy? We don't need to discuss him in any way regarding his intentions. There are things you give up when you make the commitment to me married. One is being picked up by a stranger.

... in response to Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

There are varied opinions to your post. Personally, I don't think your wife's episode, as I read it, is so very healthy. Nor would it be, if the shoe was on the other foot and you were the said "companion" for a married woman whom you met at a bar. Questions of fidelity aside...this is not still not a great idea, imho.

It is funny to me because my best friend would have no problem being the guy your wife met. He is married, very wealthy and at times craves, needs female companionship. No, not sexual companionship, as he doesn't cheat on his wife. The story you mention he has done many times and sex was never really his motive. Yes, maybe somewhere way in the psyschological background...but it would never come to fruition. He enjoys the conversation etc....thats it. Its all part of a little party and thats it and the party is over.

However, as you describe your wife....most guys would have very different intentions. Your wife could get in a very bad situtation and its just not a great idea.

... in response to Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

I got to hand it to you John K. After reading the first couple of sentences of your post I thought to myself, "this guy has got some serious balls hanging this topic out for all to see". I feel that way still after reading all the reply's. I think you're doing it right. Your wife's a big girl and she made a big commitment by marrying you. A person can't treat their spouse as if they expected them to be unfaithful. You can't keep them under lock and key although one reads many stories about AM doing just that to their R/UW. Trust and honesty and making the right choice is what any relationship is all about. It sounds to me like you did the work and made the right choice in marrying the woman you did. You need to trust the person you're married to until they give you good reason not to. Not doing so makes for a very sick relationship and speaks very lowly of the non-truster's self esteem. If the spouse is an honest person they will be true to their commitment. If they have infidelity in their heart they will fall off the fidelity wagon sooner or later and there isn't anything that you will be able to do about it before the fall. Once the fall has taken place the offended spouse will know about it unless they are brain dead, which seems true of many AM marrying R/UW, or the offending spouse is a psychopath, which many AM, now divorced, would like you to believe. Neither you nor your wife seem to qualify for the categories mentioned above. I think you're doing it right but I don't envy you for all that you're going through. It's obvious that you love her very much and that her dissatisfaction with the USA and her trip home are troubling to you. They would be troubling to any of us but infidelity isn't in her heart or she would have taken the opportunity with this guy and you never would have heard word one about the meeting. The fact that she mentioned it to you at all speaks well of your relationship on both sides. Still, I'd have a little chat about it with her when she gets home..haha. Women like that you're a little jealous. It means you care. And I think she will go home to you. If your relationship is as good as you write that it is then she knows what she has and what she stands to loose if she stays back in Mother Ukraine. Being in Ukraine again should only reinforce her reasons for wanting to leave in the first place. When she gets back work with her on finding a place to live with fewer laws and restrictions, like Oregon, and find a home with better neighbors. My best wishes go out to both of you!

... in response to Much ado about nothing..., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 7, 2003

If a marriage isn't done right, it isn't worth doing. I take no pride in holding to my principles, I do it because it's what I feel I should do. It's the "do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do" philosophy.

Were my marriage to fail someday, I wouldn't bemoan how I was the tragic hero. Such pomposity ill suits me, and it would totally trivialize the actual tragedy at hand. All I am trying to say is that I approach marriage with a certain philosophy, based upon openness, honesty, communication, and trust. When you fully commit to such a relationship, you are eventually going to run into something that tests your commitment. Then, you either stick to your principles, or you don't. It's "put up or shut up" time.

... in response to Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

John,
I have a young sociable wife and a very open mind. If the male friend was a long time friend, I could accept what you describe. But to be picked up in a bar (with or without Momma) by a complete stranger is improper at best, immoral at worst. You cloud your judgement with all your talk about trust and what a compliment it is to your wife because HE PICKED HER. Get real, your wife just got a new boyfriend on the other side of the world. You had your doubts about her even coming back, and now this?

"Such a positive experience is certainly going to help her socialize more in the future." Uh huh, how to attract men at a bar 101.
KenC

... in response to Wake up!, posted by KenC on Jun 6, 2003

My wife has never had problems attracting men. If that was all she wanted, she could have a different man every night. She doesn't want a boyfriend, or a sponsor for that matter either. She simply wants to have some fun. This was simply socializing in a public venue. Call it "dating" if you want, but it was harmless. Was it improper? Perhaps. Have we talked about it? Certainly, and at length. The next time I call, we'll talk about it some more.

Perception is often believed to be the truth, yet perception is simply our own limited view of events. My coworker and I were walking every afternoon for lunch, and often had talks back in the tech room whenever she went on break. Did anything happen? Of course not. Did my wife know about it? Yes she did. Was she concerned? Yes, but she trusted my judgement. Yet, to an outside observer, it could easily have been misconstrued as something far different than what was happening. In the end, my coworker and I decided to change our walking schedules so that we walked at different times, and we stopped socializing on the breaks. While perception is not the truth, perceptions can become damaging, left unchecked.

I do not blind myself to possibilities, Ken. But I also do not immediately fly off the handle and make accusations, based on something I perceive to be odd. I've found over the years that often odd things are usually that, odd. Looking for conspiracies and deviancies are better left to others who have the imagination and the time to pursue it.

Could my wife be unfaithful? Certainly. I could be unfaithful too, and my wife would never know it. Yet we talk regularly, and are very aware of each other's lives. My wife could just as easily not said anything about meeting the gentleman. I could have just as easily said nothing about my coworker. Yet we both know what happens in each other's lives, and we do not hide from each other. It still boils down to an issue of trust in the end. Either you have it or you don't.

My doubts about Marina returning were not based upon our relationship, but on her dislike of life in America. My wife has had a difficult time adjusting here. She is not comfortable with all the laws and restrictions we willingly abide under, and disagrees vehemently with all of the costs, fees, licenses, taxes and penalties we are constantly subjected to. She hates the food, doesn't trust her neighbors (neither do I), and feels her privacy threatened at every turn. Under such conditions, I too would feel unhappy. We've already run that thread ragged before, so I won't go into it again...

... in response to Eyes wide open, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

John,
You most certainly have the right to look at this in any way you want. I truly hope that you are correct in your opinion. I wanted to share my opinion with you as a voice of reason to give you a different perspective. When you are in love, your objectivity becomes blurred at best. When your relationship is uncertain (which your's is, for whatever reason), you WANT to believe the best no matter how far fetched it is. No amount of rationalization will remove that pit of doubt you feel in your gut.
-
"I do not blind myself to possibilities, Ken. But I also do not immediately fly off the handle and make accusations, based on something I perceive to be odd." A few conclusions can be made from your statement. One is that you recognize the possibilities of her unfaithfulness. In your action or lack of action, you are trading your comfort for her's. Yet in your explanation of your female co-worker, you stopped your activity because it might be perceived as more than it was. You had it right there, because there are certain freedoms that you give up once you are married. "Dating" strange men met in bars should be one of them.

Another is that her "friendship" as explained is odd. Sorry, but I don't buy your explanation that odd things are just odd. I go by the idea that the simplest explanation is usually correct. FACT: The guy's wife is out of town. Fact: He was specifically looking for FEMALE companionship while she was gone. Fact:Your wife (and you) seem flattered that she was "picked" (as in "picked-up?). Fact: You wife thinks of him as handsome,rich and interesting. Your wife's explanation that the needed a "social partner" until his wife returned is total bullsh!t. Why would he need a FEMALE companion if sex didn't enter into the scenario? Why would he be trolling bars while his wife is gone? Why wouldn't he just hang with his great friends or go stag? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is usually a DUCK! If your wife wants to be picked up by strange men in bars and develop a relationship with them, she shouldn't be married.
KenC

... in response to : Eyes wide shut, posted by KenC on Jun 7, 2003

But I have to view the situation with the knowledge I have, both what is posted and what is not. To explain how my wife thinks, feels or acts would probably take a large sized volume to get it all down. All I can say is that I understand her well enough to believe her to be telling the truth. While many would hasten to mark the incident as a yellow or red "flag", they don't have an understanding of my wife's personality or thinking process. After 2 1/2 years of marriage, I am the better judge of that.

I do appreciate the opposing view, though, as it allows me to look at it from a different angle. It does appear pretty damning, looking at it from a different view, and I did talk to my wife about it last night. As she became aware of how it could be perceived, she became very upset over it. As I hadn't initially given it much thought, neither had she. My wife is very sensitive as to how people perceive her, and to see herself in such an unfavorable light was pretty hard on her.

Still, it was something that needed to be addressed, even though it may cause difficulties in other areas down the road.

... in response to Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

Personally, I wouldn't want my wife to go off anywhere with a stranger she's just met--especially to his home. Having her mother with her doesn't change my opinion; if the guy turned out to be unstable that would only mean the police would eventually be searching for two people instead of one. I imagine Ukraine has a different viewpoint about trusting total strangers than we do in America but Marina's decision to go home with this man would be deemed risky at best in this country. When she returns I would point this out to her. In my opinion, what happened here goes beyond trust and her gradual Americanization. Simply put, there are better ways for her to spend her time than with an attractive male and his friends while her husband is home in California. Putting oneself in positions of possible temptation with nothing negative happening proves what: that the marriage is bulletproof? More likely that nothing harmful resulted this time.

... in response to Re: Stranger in a not so strange land, posted by SimonSays on Jun 6, 2003

She never went to his home. He gave Marina and her mother a lift back to her mother's place, instead of the two of them having to hire a taxi. It was a courtesy that is commonly done over there.

What she does with her time over there is up to her, as long as she stays within her marital vows. She goes to movies, shows, restaurants, bars and discos and I don't object. The whole point of having a vacation is to relax and have fun. If I wanted to control my wife's life, I would have never let her go.

What's at issue is control versus trust and responsibility. I prefer to trust my wife to be responsible than to try and control her. While I'm not always comfortable with what she does, I'm not from her culture. My point of reference and experience is different from hers, because the culture in America is different from that in Ukraine. For me to dictate what she should or should not do in her own country would be folly.

As far as temptation goes, Marina never said that she was tempted. She was just interested in having someone to do things with for a few days. Marina's "friends" over there didn't pan out and she was getting tired of sitting at home watching TV day in and day out. The only thing she remarked as interesting was why he picked her over the younger (and possibly prettier) girls, who were practically falling over themselves to be with him. To her, that went against a typical Ukrainian man's nature.

My wife is a rather unusual, yet pragmatic person. She wants to go out, but avoids going out by herself for numerous reasons, among them safety. She learned long before she met me how to keep herself safe, and knows how to tell if a guy is ok or not. Even so, my wife is careful to make sure she only meets in public places, she always has a safe exit, she has more than enough money to pay her way, and she lets her mother know when to expect her home.

This gentleman wasn't looking for a playtoy; he was looking for some social company for a few days and was up front about it. Had he been less than honest or less than honorable about his intentions, Marina wouldn't have had anything to do with him. While there is always an element of risk, that same risk is also here in California, every time she opens the door at home to sign for a delivery. The key is to minimize that risk as much as possible. My wife is smart enough to do that.

I don't ask for people to understand our relationship. Our relationship is based upon trust, fidelity, mutual respect, responsibility, honesty, communication and love. We don't own each other. We try not to control each other. While it may seem that we are hedonistic animals, truth be told, we are both very conservative in our opinions and actions.

While my wife wants to go out and have a good time, she balances that against safety and common sense. If she doesn't feel safe, she doesn't go, or if she's already there, she pays and leaves. I trust and respect her judgement, and allow her the freedom to enjoy her vacation. To do otherwise would be petty and controlling of me.

... in response to Less than two years in California, posted by Griffin redux on Jun 6, 2003

I dislike the California life out here. Even though I now own a house out here, I'd sell it in a minute if I could find a good job elsewhere.

If you are implying that my wife is promiscuous, then I'm afraid you're off the mark. As the gentleman's social partner, their relationship was strictly platonic. She didn't offer and he didn't ask. He just wanted a pretty girl for company, and he didn't feel threatened from Marina. The fact that she was among his circle of friends, both male and female seems to indicate it was on the up and up.

Marina isn't interested in physical pleasure outside of marriage, and has enough sense of self and personal pride not to engage in illicit activities. While she likes to go out and have fun, she is careful enough not to get herself in a dangerous situation.

I think above all, is the issue of trust. I trust her, and she trusts me to behave myself while she's gone. While she likes the bar and disco life over there, she is careful to go only with her mother or with friends. While men do approach her to dance or buy her drinks, they don't get anything except a dance or a "thank you".

She has also toned down her behavior considerably. She used to be much more wild, when she was younger. Before we started corresponding, her mother would often be beside herself wondering where her daughter was. Her father had disowned her. By the time, I had arrived for my first visit to Ukraine, her mother and grandmother were ready to welcome me with open arms. I had "settled Marina down" and put her on the path of responsibility, even before we met. Even her estranged father has reestablished communications with Marina, after seeing her this year.

Even so, accomodations must be made for youth. I don't expect Marina to become an "old married woman", and never have. She is too young, vibrant and strong willed to be contained. I give Marina her freedom, and I trust her to do the right thing. She hasn't failed me yet. Do I sometimes get concerned? Of course, but either you trust your partner or you don't. If you don't, then why did you marry them?

It isn't like Marina doesn't have trust issues as well. There is a woman at work here (I'll call her Kate) who has been more than just friendly with me. She's young, pretty, and very wealthy. Needless to say, I'm certainly flattered by her attention. Marina trusts me not to overstep my vows though, and she knows exactly what transpires between me and Kate each time we talk on the phone. Still, she hasn't always been comfortable with my friendship with Kate. Trust isn't about comfort. Trust is about believing in the other person, and comporting yourself so you don't violate that same trust.

While many believe that love is the bedrock of marriage, I tend to disagree. Trust, mutual respect, honesty, and communication are the true bedrocks of a good marriage. Love is (hopefully) the reason why you married.

... in response to I suspect you protest too much..., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 6, 2003

If a man won't stand up for his woman's honor, then he might as well surrender the family jewels, 'cause he ain't a man. You can think what you want, but when you imply it in a public forum, I am obligated to respond.

As far as "testing the trust" goes, we all have to face it sometime in our lives. If you don't lay your trust and faith in each other on the line, how do you know if it's really there and not just a pipedream? I prefer to *know* I can trust my wife, instead of just hoping she will do the right thing when a situation comes along.

When Marina returns, we will be ready to move on to our next step in life, which is to create a stable and loving family. We are already discussing all the things we have to do and prepare for before we bring a new life in this world. That discussion wouldn't even be taking place if we both didn't feel secure in what we have. That security comes from knowing we can trust each other.

My original observation wasn't really on trust, anyway. It was about my wife's separating from her ethnic identity, and the fact that she finally had a chance to experience what friendship should be like. You just led me astray with your pithy comments...

... in response to Not protesting, just clearing the air, posted by John K on Jun 6, 2003

so much as a husband trying to rationalize her behavior.

I have not meant to imply that your wife has been less than honorable. If I left you with that impression I apologize. My comments have been directed to your reaction to her behavior, not what she may or may not be doing.

This test of the trust between you is incomplete. When your wife returns tell her you are taking your nubile secretary down to Baja for a long week-end. Because, after all, you deserve an equal chance to experience what friendship should be like and she will certainly want to *know* that she can trust you as well. :-)

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GoodWife / Planet-Love Archives => Threads started in 2003 => Topic started by: John K on June 06, 2003, 04:00:00 AM