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I've read the WOVO vs. WMVM debate here many times.

In either case, assuming you have only a short time to visit,
IMO you still don't get to spend much time getting to know
your girl(s) beyond what technology allows.

So...has anyone lived and worked in the FSU, having lots of
time to get to know their girl(s) in person.

I have traveled a lot for a young person, and Russia is high on
my list of countries yet to be seen.  In this case I'm considering
teaching English as a vehicle to explore the country culturally
and then also my options.

I'd aim for a larger city, but then I have read posts here on the
negative aspects of urbanite women.

Comments?

... in response to My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 20, 2003

Safari,
I am posting here to counter balance the advice you received from Travis.  Not all young RW are terrible like Travis implies.  My wife was 21 when she arrived here and never played the games that Travis writes about.  Travis has it in his mind that it is the age of the woman you select that is most important and I simply disagree.  What is most important to the selection process, in my opinion, is to thoroughly know the woman.  Most guys rush into a relationship with a RW without knowing her completely.  Even with the availability of email, it is most important to spend a lot of "face to face" time before you make such an important commitment.  If you do not know the other person, marriage will be a high risk proposition no matter what the age of the woman is.

On a forum such as this one, you must really consider the source of the advice you receive.  Misinformation is commonly dealt out from guys that have failed miserably or just plain do not have the experience.  Travis seems to blame his plight on the young age of his wife for example.  There are others here who post daily that have made one quick trip to Russia (and failed) or even some that believe themselves to be experts without ever actually going to Russia at all.  Be careful who's advice you listen to.
KenC
(My qualifications: strong 4 year marriage to a woman 25 years my junior)

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

Wow!  And I thought the 16+ years between Marina and I was a little extreme...

How does your wife feel about the age difference?  For Marina, she enjoys it, as she has a thing for older men.  On the other hand, even though she enjoys the age difference, she is determined to make me look younger and keep me looking young.  

There is a little bit of irony in that.  Marina wants me to look younger, as she really doesn't want her friends and distant relatives to know how much difference is between us.  On the other hand, I was initially worried about the age difference, but my family and friends didn't care a whit.  They were too busy being relieved that I finally made a commitment to settle down with someone.

When it comes to daily life, Marina and I don't even notice the age difference.  In fact, we lost track of it my first trip over there after a couple of days.  While the age difference is still there, we accept it as a natural thing for us.  

The only time we really consider it is when we plan for the future.  Marina wants to make sure I will be an active father and keep up with our future children.  Once the kids are gone, she wants some good years left in my body for her own personal reasons... :-)  Aside from that, we rarely give it a thought.

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

I've bitten down long enough. Come on, Travis marrys a woman who treats him like dirt before and even during their wedding? A "fiance" who (by his own admission) repeatably wouldn't let him touch her? Who was prone to lies, violence, and demonstrated few if any signs of love for him *before* the marriage? During the time he had a chance to back out? Keerist, most men wouldn't even continue dating such a person, let alone stay on to *marry* them!  

Red flags? I thought the term applied to things that needed to be puzzled out, signs that weren't quite clear...clues as it were. These were not red flags, how much clearer could it have been? What more did he need? He had every chance to bail and he chose not to. This wasn't normal behavior, even for the typical MOB desperado. While I regret his plight, it's difficult to have lots of sympathy for a guy who ignores a loaded gun openly pointed at his heart while helping to pull the trigger.

It's been suggested that other guys may meet women who will treat them this way and need to remember this experience?!? Do others really need to recall his experience to make the right decision if this happens to them? Does anyone here need this kind of "help"? Yikes!

At least he accepts he was an idiot but, based on what I've read thus far, I find it difficult to place much blame on her or to sauve his ego when he really ought to be slapped silly. What he did hurts all MOB guys, it makes them look like the losers most outsiders believe them to be. His story is yet another example of why the public's perception of MOB men has more than a ring of truth to it.

I take no pleasure in the demise of his marriage but I see nothing noble in his confessing to the world his amazing lack of self control. In fact, I see it as more faulty decision making on his part. And to stroke a grown man who should have known better (while shaking your heads over how bad she was)...well, it simply makes those who do it look like birds of his feather.

Travis, I mean you no harm and I hope you don't take too much offense but lets face it: You screwed the pooch big time. You acted the fool more than most and aren't even remotely entitled to the "men do strange things when in love" defense. The signs you ignored *easily* disqualifies you from receiving that kind of slack. Your story is a new high is MOB irrationality, besting even our lovable David SD's. (The fact you seem sane makes it all the more amazing.)

If there is anything to be learned from your experience, it's that *you* were responsible. Some might even say deserving. Seems to me you worked at earning it. This was not a scam on her part, just plain lunacy on your's. You married a woman after staggeringly obvious signs (not "red flags") that not only didn't she love you but was not a quality human being in the first place. Signs that have *no* valid reason for ignoring. To say you loved her all the while she was giving you these clear signs only makes you look more a fool.

It's not my intent to discourage any man from coming here and telling how he was tricked, scammed, or manipulated in some fashion but in this case I don't see that. Why anyone would fess up to this kinda stuff is, at least to me, mind boggling.

Doesn't anyone else see it this way? If it turns out I'm the only one, well, I won't be too surprised.

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

LP,
I see exactly what you are saying and agree.  The goal of my post was not to hammer Travis, but to hammer his advice.  He screwed up in a major way, so how does that give his advice any credibility?  His advice is tainted by his bitterness to his ex.  Now all girls her age are evil.  Give me a friggen break.  This is an open forum so anyone can post even if they have no reason.  Of course "reason" never stopped Wsbill.  LOL.  (I would ask Bill for advice on tomatoes, but never for advice on women) There even have been the "experts" that had never ventured to Russia.  Barry comes to mind as an example.  A smart man (even a newbie) should qualify the people he takes advice from is all I am really saying.  Let us not forget luck either.  There have been guys here that did everything wrong and it still worked for them.  I don't consider myself an expert, but someone that has a fair share of common sense. (And a hell of a lot of luck too)
KenC

... in response to you are not alone  , posted by KenC on May 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...The guy is bent and rightly so, but it should be at himself more than her. I expect most guys to be a little bitter after an event like his but it struck me as pretty bizzare even among most MOB divorces.(At least the ones we hear about, God knows about the ones we don't.) What got me was how he blew his chance to prevent it in the first place. I know if it was me (not a chance) I'd be bangin my head against the wall for months, starting now.

Lol, I hear ya about old Bill, they broke the mold when they made him. You know that feeling you get when you lean back in a chair and almost go over? That few seconds of imbalance? Me thinks he feels like that all the time. ;-)

... in response to you are not alone  , posted by KenC on May 23, 2003

But I never said that age was a factor in my marriage problems. Our problem was intent. Regarding age, I simply stated that age should be considered as I personaly doubt that younger women are really ready for marriage, or rather want it or the constraints marriage has. Yours fortuanately is an exception.

... in response to Re: you are not alone  , posted by Travis on May 23, 2003

Travis,
Not to beat a dead horse (too much) but when you make comments like "young RW have a short shelf life" and "You shouldn't waste your time on the younger women there" it SURE sounds like you're putting the blame on her age.
-
The truth of the matter is, in my opinion, that marrying any woman is a risk, but a foreign woman is a VERY RISKY PROPOSITION.  GREATER precautions should be taken but the reality is that because of geography, less precautions are usually the norm.  Now if you compound that greater risk with a strange culure and language difficulties, it almost becomes a "sucker's bet".  But wait, there's more, let's assume that the guy is not that good with women to begin with, which seems to be at least true in more than 50% of the cases.  THAT guy (not saying you Travis) might have better odds buying a Lotto ticket!
KenC

... in response to a sucker's bet, posted by KenC on May 23, 2003

I never made the statement "young RW have a short shelf life". I do think it's more apt to failure, but I don't feel that is restricted to Russian women, just most people in general. American, Russian, male or female. I look back to when I was say 21 or so, I was nowhere near being ready to marry, I wanted to play, and did. But as I said before, it does NOT apply to everyone. We all cannot be placed into one mold! My best friend married at 22 I think, and is still happily married. It is simply my personal opinion that most people around this age aren't ready. Not all, but most.

Everything else you state I completely agree with. And I don't blame my wifes age for our problems, I blame her intent and my stupidity. Her age was a contributing factor, but in a very minor sense.

... in response to a sucker's bet, posted by KenC on May 23, 2003

I agree that it did sound like Travis was putting blame on age and the context of how he meant that and to what degree is only brought out by being challenged as you did and thus some perspective and clarity might result.

Perhaps Travis overstated his point on age. However, I think it is a safe bet to say that there is more risk with younger women. Let me re-phrase that - it is my impression that such is the case.

There have been posts from FSU women in their late 30's who comment that the younger women are changing. They are not like what they were like when they were younger. There is a trend to be materialistic, the values the we associate these women with are not as intrenched in the younger women.

Is this true?  How would I know. Those who know are the ones over there living in and seeing it. Just because of few women tell us this is what they see ---- it is still only that --- a few women telling us such.  If there is a trend of such is it everywhere?  I sure would doubt it. But still it is all speculation.

I think that if he had stated that was his impression that one should have a bit more  caution when courting younger women versus sounding as though he was blaming things on the age issue feathers would not have been so easily ruffled. Just my perspective

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

Most everything you say is very true and I have no choice but to agree with. I will admit it! And I have too. Hopefully you don't think I post here because I want to prove to the world that I was an idiot, which I was. I post here because if what I did and say keeps just one person from doing what I did, it would be worth it. And I'll state again, I don't want or need sympathy, slack or be stroked, I got myself into my predictament, I'll get myself out.

I haven't posted all the details of my marriage and what happened. Nor have I posted much regarding my personality or what my wife went through. This isn't justification, it's just how I am and the facts. That I can't change, neither can history. My wife had emotional problems. I knew this before we married. I honestly thought I could help her. Her parents divorced when she was 8. She lived with her mother after the divorce and her father moved into his mothers apartment. Her father basically disowned her because she went with her mother and not him. When she was 14, March 8th ironically, she found her mother dead on the kitchen floor with a bullet in her head. Appearently some drug related issue but never solved. She lived on her own from then until we married. My biggest mistake was thinking that I could magically erase all the bad things that happened to her and make her life wonderful. Me knowing what occured in her past made me try very hard to overlook things about her. Excuseable? No. But it's a flaw in my personality.

Was it right of me to think I was going to be some knight in shining armor that was going to save her? No. Am I at fault for what happened? Very much so. Is she at fault. Yes. I don't need anyone to "suave" my ego. Should I have been slapped silly? Good God YES!

You don't offend me nor cause me any harm. I understand that I have not said everything regarding what happened, you don't know me and you don't know her or our history.  

My disagreements are that she and her friends were responsible! Myself also. It was a scam! And I know I look the fool, but I do love her. That I can't help. I mistakenly thought I could help and could be that dumb @ss knight, but I was very wrong. I was competing with her friends. My loss! I was partly responsible and have admitted that here time and time again. I still can't believe it isn't her best friends @ss she wants to beat, rather mine. I guess she hasn't yet understood what her friend did to her. We won't even touch on some other issues. I wish I could, but the timing isn't right yet.

My goal by posting here is not for sympathy, to embaress myself or to make the whole MOB scene look like losers. It's simply to state what happened to me in the hopes that it doesn't happen to another.

... in response to Re: Thats a fact...., posted by Travis on May 23, 2003

..intent to beat on you Travis, it's just that I don't sugar coat stuff. I'll admit you're handling it well, all things considered. There is only so much I can tolerate when I keep seeing the blame placed on her. Yes, she sounds like a succubus, but you allowed her to pull it off.

The point I was tryin to make is no one should need to know your story to avoid what happened to you. And now that we hear know more details I feel it's even more true. People do some pretty strange sheet when they're in love but there has to be a limit. No matter what, a man needs to be true to himself first and you did not.

Fwiw, you made one of the all time classic MOB mistakes: The "Knight in Shining Armor", the "I'll save her", was the first thing you needed to lose. Take heart however, you're not the first (or last) man to tread that delusional path. Even your's truly suffered from it in the beginning, what seems now like a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. I wised up quick on that issue however....

Still love her? Just wait a few months. Then you'll be even more angry at yourself for feeling that way. I'll give ya one thing, if it was me I wouldn't be brushing it off so easily. I only say that because my own past has been enough to prevent me from ever getting into your situation. In that respect, many of us simply have the jump on you. When you pay to learn, you learn.

... in response to Look, it ain't my...., posted by LP on May 23, 2003

I know it isn't your intent to beat up on me. I deserve what I got, somewhat. Yes, I allowed her to pull it off. I never said all the blame was on her, just her initial intent, which I allowed (my fault). Okay, I admit it, I hoped for the best and was wrong...VERY wrong. My intent to help her and be there for here, STUPID.

But there are very possibly other men out there that will overlook things. I don't mean as terribly as I did but rather overlook a lie here and there. These things I did and I'm not at all proud of them. But my point is a lie is a lie. DON'T overlook a lie!

Still love her? Yes, in some respects. But I also know what I loved was a facade. It wasn't real. That will pass. Please take my word for it, I'm not brushing it off. But I still have difficulty turning off what I feel. Sounds weak I know. For some reason I still think if it were just she and I, we could have made it. But I had her friends to contend with which gave me no chance. I've had relationships that have ended, but this is the first that I REALLY paided. I'm too old to be learning these things!!!

... in response to Re: Look, it ain't my...., posted by Travis on May 23, 2003

You are handling this well.  Also, others are right in that age isn't as important as the person herself, and that your
"inklings" were more than red flags.  Truely an inexpensive lesson.  Just think if you had gotten her pregnant!

Because we're dealing with another culture we don't know much about, and the numbers of willing women wanting to get out, it's easy to fool ourselves into believing, rationalizing, any fantasy we want to tell ourselves.  Even LP admits to having needed to "correct" himself.  Look inwards from now on, young man.

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

not take the appropriate action (Pow, to the moon!) is beyond me.  If anyone thinks those signs were red flags (to be ferreted out like some mystery), then one must wonder what a 'real' problem would be like.

Red flag = 'she f***s my brains out, but wants to know everything about green cards'

WMD = 'she won't let me touch her and beats the crap out of me'

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

There are some people involved in the MOB pursuit that maybe should not be.  Perhaps I'm one of them.  (Some people will remember my last trip a year ago and how things didn't work out for me. The trip report is in the archives from May 2002.)  Anyone who posts a story like this isn't going to look good.  However, I think that these need to be told.  The biggest clue I had that something wasn't right with my relationship was what I was reading here on Planet Love.  

I look back and still wonder why it was so hard for me to walk away from her, but it was.  The more trip reports, stories etc that are posted make it easy for people like me that aren't good at this to realize that something is wrong and that they need to take a good close look at what they are doing.

I understand, or think I understand, the point some people are trying to make: that the bad stories make everybody involved in this pursuit look bad.  On the other hand, if someone else reads the disaster stories and doesn't marry someone they shouldn't, I think that something good has come of it.

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

No,your not the only one.

It is a strange mystery.
That people, both men
and women, will react to
abuse and disrespect the
way Travis did. It makes
no sense. It reveals
how much mankind needs,wants
and desires to be loved.
So much so that with some people
the need overrides their own
sense of self respect.

Sad but true.

WmGOZeroTolerance

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

why I'm sticking up for Travis on this one but... I see people doing what he did all the time. Not just in the MOB scene. You know I'm lower class scum. It gives me an interesting outlook on things. I see guys and girls who seem pretty decent marrying nasty things on a regular basis. And a few months down the line they're scared and beat to h3ll wondering what went wrong. The ability to ignore the world around us is a very common trait. While admitting he screwed up doesn't make Travis noble, at least he's honest. I'd rather associate with an honest screw up than a succesful liar.

His story is sad and the fact that you're right about him being responsible is even sadder but maybe when somebody else reads it they'll see some of the similarities in their own situation. And that might be enough to make the big head start working and get them out of it before they get seriously messed. So I figure Travis can be an example for the rest of us. Sometimes we need bad examples.

... in response to I'm not sure..., posted by Zink on May 22, 2003

Travis could have gone the route of that guy that started that hate group and blamed his failures on the woman he married and the church that she attended. If you remember he stayed married for 2 years and when she got the green card she smashed his car in front of the INS office, told him that she wanted a divorce and walked away laughing.
At least Travis's self induced anestisia wore off after 60 days of marriage and he retook control of his life and is willing to admit his failures.
And if your worried about what others think when you enter into a MOB relationship, then don't play the game until you grow a set of your own.

... in response to also, posted by Stan B on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...he's not honest, nor do I wish to beat on him. All I'm saying is he *is* a bad example and people who are unable to see that or control themsleves in the face of such signs shouldn't be involved.

As for what other's think, I've pointed out before that some of us need to consider it, and for very valid reasons.Obviously you didn't, based on your actions. (lol, a good thing too.) Your attitude is no surprise, all things considered.

Apparently the position you hold in the hotel/food service (or whatever) biz in Maui, as well of the quality of the people you associate with, is uneffected by it. You might consider thats not the case for everybody.

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

Naturally, all posts I ever read get a grain of salt.  But I'm glad to hear
both from those who have had success, to find characteristics that led to
it, and from those who have been burned, to know what traps to watch
out for.

I eventually want to spend a lot of time over there, because I also think
the face-to-face time is critical.  I find women can choose to be adept
liars through words, but their body language always reveals the truth.

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

Actually, Ken, I thought Travis's advice was sound. He is suffering from the after effects of his experience but doesn't seem as bent out of shape as some. But like anything else, take it with a grain of salt. I think Safari has a good idea with going there and living and meeting real people. I've found a significant difference in the attitudes of ordinary Russians and the agency girls. Your advice is very good but Travis's warning shuld heeded also. Most young girls are exactly that and may not be serious. I don't think they are all evil, conniving scammers, but it's not that hard to find that type at times. Safari doesn't sound like he's ready for the 100 yard dash to marriage either. He should go there date a few women and learn what it's really like to be with RWs before he gets married. Hands on experience beats all the best advice.

... in response to Re: Be careful who you listen to, posted by Zink on May 22, 2003

Actually, both Ken C and Travis make sense. This is Planet Love at its best: advise and dissent, but no bs.

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by Travis]

I tried very hard to imply that it was not ALL women, but merely the women that I have met. I know there are exceptions, and I'm glad yours is one of them but the fact is that MOST, not all women there as here are not ready for marriage at that age, or rather don't really want the constraints of it yet.

... in response to Re: Be careful who you listen to, posted by Travis on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by Travis]

nt

... in response to My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 20, 2003

Get away from the big cities.

... in response to My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 20, 2003

I also considered doing that and almost did. But what I ended up opting for was taking 20-28 day long vacations as often as I could in Russia. I haven't dated as many women as some of the guys but I have spent a fair amount of time meeting people there. I'm gearing up for my next trip and don't have much time but if you want to chat send me an e-mail. I'd be glad to share some of what I've learned.

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Zink on May 20, 2003

At my age, I am considering this a long term process, firstly because I
want to be relatively competent in Russian beforehand.  I want to get as
much culturally out of my future trip as I can.  Also my finances for the
moment couldn't support all-out vacations, much less the whole
shebang, so I see teaching as a way to make the trip pay for itself and
really get into the grain of Russia.

I've read some places that body language works differently there, for
example eye contact and smiling.  Is this largely true?  How receptive
were the people, particularly the women, meeting you, and where did
you meet them?

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 21, 2003

I started searching just over three years ago when I was 26. I also wasn't worried about a long term approach. I'm young and didn't need to be married by the end of next month. I nearly bankrupted myself with my frst girlfriend and the trips to be with her. Too many in one year. I live like a Russian while I am there. That means that my biggest expense is my plane tickets. My in Russia costs are usually less than $500 per month. That includes apartment(averages $200 for a month for a tourist), local sight seeing, food(mostly at at home or with my friends. Not many restaurant meals), gifts for my family and other incidentals. I use buses and marshrutkas(big taxis) and rarely use ordinary taxis except later at nights.

Last summer I met a British guy about our age who was teaching English in Vladivostok. He enjoyed it but after 9 months there he was getting tired of it. I was considering it also as a way to stay there for longer. I decided not to because I have my own business here and can make more money, more easily in Canada. I was considering signing up for a TESOL correspondance course. I've never taught and thought maybe it would improve my abilities. I have a link to this course if you're interested. It's available ll over the US and Canada. You won't get rich teaching in Russia. But you should be able to make enough to support yourself and you will definitely meet many people. The real money in teaching there is if you can become a private tutor for someone. Depending on the teacher's skill and the student's income some tutors do okay money wise. But in Russia it's still common to trade work for food or services.

Eye contact. Staring is not considered as rude as it is here. But most of the time people's eyes will sweep over you in a group and not really focus. I've found that when doing business never smile. But if talking to friends or close aquaintances Russians smile and laugh as much as we do. My Russian friends have a very similar sense of humour to myself. The ladies appreciate it when a man pays attention to them. They don't dress like that unless they want attention. The ladies I was with usually pointed out especially attractive or interesting women on the street for me. I never noticed a huge difference in the body language other than the fact that many RWs are very sensual and graceful. Some ooze sexuality but it isn't an invitation to jump on them. It's just their natural way of being.

Most of the ladies I met were very receptive at our first meeting. They usually wanted to do all kinds of extra things for me such as organizing trips and showing me the sights. I usually introduced myself to the ladies over the net and then made plans to meet them in their home cities. Other than my first girlfriend I met them at an easily accessed public area and we walked, talked and found a nearby cafe to visit more. A couple times I was invited home quite quickly for tea or a meal. But I wouldn't say that this was common. And it was usually the mother of the girls that I was trying to date that invited me over. They wanted to check me out too.

Most of the Russians I met liked me a lot. They call me Êàíàòñêèé Êîâáîé. It's what I am. They were always willing to help me and had lots of questions about my life and Canada. The only bad Russians I met were involved with dating agencies in Volgograd and the militsia. I've even had great visits with some groups that other people have posted as being dangerous and scary(ie. Armenian cabbies in Sochi and mafia bootleggers in Volgograd). If you keep your eyes open and your nose clean Russia isn't that bad. But if you want trouble it will find you in a heartbeat and will more likely be more than you can handle. Russians are a passionate people and easily provoked. But if you stand up for yourself and aren't the cause of trouble they will help you. Most seem to be decent, down to earth people.

That got longer than I'd planned on. It's hard for me to give short concise answers when talking about Russia. It's a large country with many different layers to talk about.

... in response to Re: Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Zink on May 21, 2003

Without eye contact or smiling, is there some sort of other "green light"
they give off, or can you just approach any of them?

I added an email to my profile, I'd like to see that TESOL link.  I've heard
the money isn't as good as say, Korea, but if I could find a short contract
I'd still consider it for the experience.

Glaring newbie question: How did you get your message to accept
Cyrillic?  When I tried to type KOI8 earlier, it showed up as question
marks in the preview.

... in response to Canadian Cowboy, posted by Safari on May 21, 2003

I used windows 1251. Most of the time you'll use it and not KOI8.

I had an interesting lesson in ðóññêèå ïîçíàêîìñòâî last summer. My girl and I were walking through a large park in the evening. In one area there were several park benches set up in a large circle. On one side were several young guys drinking beer and chatting, on the other a group of girls. It was like wtching a high scool dance here. After awhile they slowly started to talk to each other and mix a little. I was told that was the normal way of doing it when young.

I'm not sure about green lights but the major red light is a ring on the middle finger of the right hand. That means they're married. The girl might still be willing but I would be wary of the husband.

I'm sending you the TESOL link now.

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 21, 2003

I don't know a great deal, but I know it is considered rude to smile at someone you don't know. That's why everyone on the street looks to ticked off. Also, I think holding hands isn't common. Arm in arm with your lady is ok though.

... in response to My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 20, 2003

My opinion, my expierience. The city doesn't matter a great deal. You shouldn't waste your time on the younger women there. Again, it's my expierience speaking and I admit it was a bad expierience...mostly my fault, so you have to take what I say with a grain of salt. I will say that the smaller cities are less likely to produce scammers than say Moscow or St. Pete, but his I can't say for fact. My particular virus came from a very small town outside of Kaliningrad, but then again, she was being coached by a friend of hers. The best advise I can give, if a woman you are corresponding with has a friend that happens to live in the same city you do, most likely it isn't you that she wants to be with! Your simply the tool to get her here.

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Travis on May 20, 2003

Travis, from the time I've spent reading this board, the average cutoff
age for "old enough" seems to fall around 25.  But then I've also read for
a given age, FSU women are more mature than their Western
counterparts.

In your opinion, should one steer clear of "younger women" because of
the not uncommonly noticeable age differences between AM and RW, or
does it apply universally?  Or asked another way, does being in my late
twenties imply a lower boundary?

Generally speaking, what age range do you consider risky?

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 21, 2003

The FSU women that I have met that are younger, less than say 25 or 26, don't seem any different than women here. I don't mean that negatively, what I mean is that they want to party every night. They don't want the constraints of a marriage other than the financial benefits and the green card. It wouldn't be fair of me to steriotype all women so I will try not to, but most likely marrying a woman from the FSU that is less than 25/26ish, you would be nothing more than a taxi service, bank account and visa...for 730 days or if she's anything like my virus, she'll bust out the abuse trump card. Thats been my expierience anyway.

... in response to Re: Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Travis on May 21, 2003

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.  In hindsight, did you later
realize there were red flags overlooked?  Or did she change for the
worse after arriving / 90 day mark / 2 year mark?

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 21, 2003

There were plenty of red flags before the wedding. But the real changes occured the moment we said "I do". I never thought two words could do so much damage to one's life! She was under the impression that I couldn't get a divorce without her consent so once we were married, the facade came down. She wanted to ride out the two years basically pretending we weren't married and she could run around and do anything she wanted, including looking for my replacement. From then on she pretty much only talked to me when she wanted something, ie clothes, money, a ride to her friends, a bottle of wine. Of coarse she learned in pretty short order that 1. I could divorce her without her permission (Texas is a no fault state) and 2. I wasn't going to put up with her cr@p like her best friends husband did. Thats when she played the abuse card which was beat in court. She was really ticked when she learned what "community property" is and that my house (that she tried to take) was not part of the community. She's also pretty upset that we don't have alimony. Bummer! Well, we do if your married for 10 years but I filed for divorce after 61 days, so that don't count.

My point was that she's young and she didn't want the constraints of marriage. She, like other young people want to play. But what she also wanted was my money and citizenship. And believe me when I say this, EVERY woman there in the FSU knows the rules. Not that all or even a lot will falsly claim abuse in order to receive a green card, but some will! I'm d@mn lucky I live in Texas, otherwise I would have lost my home and been ordered to pay her alimony.