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In a nutshell, I do not think I am being scammed.

Very interesting phone call with Olga, not what I expected actually.  The Yahoo Personals posting was an attempt to find someone locally to find out information about me.  Olga did not post it she claimed two of her former girlfriends did, and I have reason to believe her. Her agency also screened her emails and other girls at the agency encouraged her to try to fish for money because they were. Olga initially thought to try this, but then decided she was too scared of getting into trouble.  As far as her character, people screw up.  It's when they get caught that you really find out who they are.

She admitted to thinking about getting money from me and is now quite embarrassed to say the least.  She said that over the months of correspondence, I turned out to be decent and really like a man she wanted to be with. When she changed agencies she hoped to put this past her but did not want to tell me.  When I told her that it was silly to think she could keep things from me like this, she got a bit defensive but then said she was sorry and opened up a bit about some other issues.  Things I won't discuss here. Let's just say that I am a bit wiser today and perhaps don't expect miracles.  If you are hunting for a lily-white eastern European girly-type, good luck chasing a fantasy.  Me, I'll settle for a real woman who screws up and lies from time to time to cover her ass. ;-)

There is some trust repair work that is going to be needed, but her tone and willingness to admit she made a mistake and was sorry was encouraging.  The way I look at it, she has been put on notice that I am not a lovesick, stupid American.  In a strange way,  I think she WANTED to tell me, but was afraid I would scream and yell and dump her.  Hey, that's always an option too! Let's face it guys, women will get away with whatever you allow them to.  Doesn't matter if they are American or Ukrainian. My "gut" tells me Olga is being straight, perhaps more than ever.  So for now I'll continue to plan on visiting her, although Plan-B is being arranged as well.

Cal

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

http://www.russianwomenabroad.com/guide.html

... in response to Re: CAL - READ THIS, posted by wsbill on Apr 24, 2003

Excellent website and my congratulations on your success!  Yah know, I kinda think of you guys like big brothers really, or perhaps Iraqi policemen, slapping people on the back of the head.  Certainly it's all good information, and I appreciate the comments and advice.

Cal

... in response to Re: Re: CAL - READ THIS, posted by Cal on Apr 24, 2003

I'm glad to hear you beat the trumped up charges.  I hope things work out will for you.

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

If you accept the premise that she ran a personal ad to find out more about YOU...you gotta be nuts.  Now,  if it is true that she ran a personal ad to find out more about you----then she is a moron.  Probably,  she isn't a moron.  So,  the fact is she lied to you about it.  Lies come in all shapes and sizes.  Probably,  more lies will follow.  You can think it to death,  but a lie is a lie.  Whatever the reason.  Its your bowl'o borscht.

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but from your post, am I to think that my beautiful and honest wife from Ukraine is just a fantasy?  I think you are rationalizing away your situation.  As said before, there are nice, attractive, and honest women out there, you just need to think clearly and take your time, don't settle.

Dan D.

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

One piece of advice. Pay more attention to her actions than her words! My soon to be ex didn't ask for money either at first as her number one priority was coming here, getting married and getting a green card. But she did more than her fair share of draining my bank account once I was hooked...my fault because I wrote off the red flags also. Take my word for it, there is much more at stake than your money. I'm fortunate I didn't end up in jail, lose my home, job and name. I went from sick in love with a beautiful woman to defending myself in court from the false accusations of a suka!

Wanna know something interesting? Everytime I caught her in a lie or doing something that had red flag stamped all over it, she always had an excuse. I'll give an example: two weeks after we married, she wrote one of her friends an email and said she was depressed because she hasn't been able to find a boyfriend. Her excuse? She was mad at me. She didn't write that she was angry and was thinking of looking for a boyfriend, she wrote that she was already looking and couldn't find one. My point being that her actions told the real truth and what she said were lies.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Travis on Apr 24, 2003

Let me contrast my situation with this... my wife has written to her best friend who is married (happily and for 1.5 years) to a man in Germany.  She SHOWS me the letters she writes, and translates them with PROMT so I can read them.

How do I know she isn't sending other letters?  Well, there is software that monitors everything done on a computer, so I do know that she is showing me everything.

Soon, I don't think I ever even needed to install this software on my machine in the first place - but better safe than sorry.

And if I could only tell you what the first Russian wife did to me 1.5 years ago.  It was not like Travis because it didn't happen very early.  Actually, I deserve much of the blame for this situation from back in 1993.  But, when we divorced, even after all I had done for her in 9 years, and her getting pregnant by lying about taking birth control pill, she was just as vindicative as the worst of American women.

Again, my strong advice is to marry a Russian woman over 30.

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Travis on Apr 24, 2003

Sobering words Travis, and they should be required reading for anyone getting into this. A red flag is a red flag, better to put emotions aside and not waste precious time trying to analyse it any further when there are so many more to choose from...

One of the reasons why I started to focus on coutries like Latvia is that there are plenty of women available there, but as they are on the verge of joining the EU, they're less likely to resort to desperate "escape routes" to get a Green Card.

... in response to Phew, that's scary stuff!, posted by Streetwise on Apr 24, 2003

asdf

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

Cal,

First I need apologize for what I am going to say, as in one sense I can argue why I should keep my mouth shut here whereas on the other hand I can argue why it might not be a bad idea to throw a monkey wrench into all of this - so here comes the wrench. I believe it is better for me to take some heat from you then to not speak out here.

First let me give my disclaimer. I obviously only have limited information which either could make any assessment worthless or ironically could allow the truth to come through for a third party and clearly in the final analysis only God and Olga (and perhaps her friends) know what the truth is.

I do not buy that Olga was trying to find out about you by running a personal. NO Way. I mean, a guy responds to her personal because he is interested in her and then she is going to tell him she is not interested in him but just wants him to find out about you????? You believe that?

I am getting the suspicion that you are a nice guy who tends to believe the best and you are capable of manipulating the data of what you see and are told into whatever conclusion you need so as to arrive at the explanation that you desire to be reality. I am not criticizing you - we have all done it. I have and I feel that I can smell it now in you just as I have seen it in myself and others. I just get the feeling that you are indulging in this to some degree. As to what degree? Who knows - but I would bet my last dollar that it is there. Usually the one doing this is the least able to access this - and commonly they feel inclined to attack anyone who suggests they are in this mode.

So, just think about it --- if you accept the possibility that what I am saying could have some relevance then you will be more able to see and access correctly the yellow and red flags that most certainly will surface with this lady in the future if she is not what you think she is. You will also find that as the red flags mount you will become less willing to make up explanations and excuses for the situation.

On the other hand, there have been many instances where seemingly glaring red flags follow by other actions of suspicion have occurred with guys and there FSU ladies and in the final analysis they were nothing - more created by communication issues and cultural differences.

IMHO - you need to give her a major demerit, consider her a potential scammer and proceed as though you trust her, not letting her know that you are eyeing her with caution.

The fact that she admitted some things such as considering taking money is not good. A good woman would never even think of such in most cases unless she was in very a very desperate situation. You are rationalizing away stuff too easily. Even so, the scammers have many sophisticated techniques - by admitting and then changing it by saying that she decided against it because you are such a nice guy can be a very disarming technique for the right guy.

Heaven forbid if LP read your posts and decided to share his perspective. As of late he has not been around as much so you may not be aware of his demeanor.

Anyway,

Good luck to you.

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

I'd have to agree with Thesearch's assesment.  It sure doesn't sound very logical to put a personal ad out with your home town as her residence to gather information about you.  I think a more logical reason would be to develop contacts there as a potential backup plan in case you don't marry her (maybe someone else would) or the even worse scenario that she planned on marrying you and seeing someone else on the side.

Of course, if the ad was placed only days after you began correspondance, then it would seem that the likelyhood of her ending up there wouldn't have been very high at that point.

I would be exceptionally cautious with this one.  Actually, I would have simply moved on to the next if it were me.  There's plenty of fish in the sea.  Why keep a potential bad choice on the line?  I know at times the search can be draining and there's a tendency to just move ahead with the one you've got rather than starting over with new women. Finding a wife this way takes a lot of patience and mistakes can be very costly both financially and emotionally.

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

Honestly, I appreciate all of the comments from everyone.  Sometimes a good old-fashioned slap on the head is good, I don't mind the comments a bit.  It's why I am here, right? If I wanted to have my advice sugar-coated, I wouldn't be here.  Olga was my favorite so far, but we'll see how things progress now that the air is cleared. Live and learn as they say.  Some of our discussion was of a nature that leads me to believe she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.  And desparate.

There is always Elena, Helen, Galina and a couple of other decent women I correspond with as well.  All in the same general area of Odessa, so I'm a bit miffed, but insured so to speak.  Maybe Olga is truly a "podsirushka", maybe not. I have great faith in the ability of people to change their ways, especially when busted.  Time will tell if this applies to this particular Ukrainian woman.  If it doesn't, so be it.

Regardless of Olga, the Russian lessons continue and so does the pursuit.  Hey, I'm 3/8 Russian, marriage to an Eastern european woman is in my blood. I'm not going to marry another American woman, so the way I see it, there is nothing to lose. I could burn $10,000 on this venture and STILL not be close to the money hemmorage from my divorce from the American spawn of Satan.  At least Olga lied up front, maybe she has come around. Either way, I'll be sure to keep in touch with other women.  

Cal

... in response to There are always others :-), posted by Cal on Apr 24, 2003

"leads me to believe she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. And desparate."

Cal, you are rationalizing as to why you should accept her behavior. Read LP's comment below.

"I have great faith in the ability of people to change their ways, especially when busted."

Now, you are assuming that someone will change or maybe you can help change her (in the back of your head maybe).

A major rule of life is do not expect someone to change as they usually do not and never expect that you can change them. Yes there are wonderful examples of people changing their ways but there are crowds of people who do not and only give lip service at best or change for a while only to revert.

Your position is one of gambling. This is not the place to gamble my friend. I am not saying dump her even though I would in a heart beat. However, as good as you are at rationalizing you are challenging your vulnerable side my friend. I do  not want you to come back her like Travis to tell your story. There is too much heart ache when these things go wrong. You have to have your wits about you.

You need to listen to Travis. Actions are what you should look at not words. People who have wrong intentions usually get very good at words to disarm as this is their only defense to change your view of their actions.

... in response to There ya go again, posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

Very well said.  It's normally women who think to themselves
....if I can only get past those tatoos, what a wonderful person he'll be when I change him for the better.  One can change behavior...smoking, drinking, bad habits...but not their character (that's who you are when no one is looking)

Like LP says, if you're too needy and can't be self critical
you're pissing up a rope.

... in response to Re: There ya go again, posted by Globetrotter on Apr 24, 2003

I have to admit I'm the same way.

There is something about a woman that has a tatto on her back at the waist.  It's like she's biker bait or property.

Just looks so tacky and sleezy. (I'm a sailor and I don't even have a tatto, I suppose if I go back in for the next 12 years and do my 20, I'll have to get one on my arm of a naked lady that when twist my arm a certain way she does something naughty... since that'll be about as close to a woman as I will ever be able to get, while on the boat.)

Just like a woman that smokes!!!  She could be a knock out model, but all it takes is one hit from that cigarette and in my mind she's history!

... in response to There ya go again, posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

People are just creatures of habit.  It takes resounding resolve to redevelop a pattern which conflicts with their ideas.

You sound more in denial, than you really are facing up to the facts which are before you.

... in response to There are always others :-), posted by Cal on Apr 24, 2003

What is this word "podsirushka"? I'm always trying to expand my vocabulary.

... in response to Re: There are always others :-), posted by Travis on Apr 24, 2003

Basically a con artist.  

Cal

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

...my "demeanor" is much softened these days. I'm passing the torch on to you, I long ago came to the realization that a good portion of the folks involved in this (on both sides) are their own worst enemies. And a few of 'em - well, they be just plain loco.

Besides you said it very well, especialy that part about scamming oneself. Not that it'll matter much, there is no reasoning with a drunken man. ;-)

... in response to Nah....., posted by LP on Apr 23, 2003

LP, dunna think that I can carry that torch - I just do not have the flare for it. I am a bit too diplomatic LOL

Who knows, maybe that technique will work but I agree with you, for some- no mater what you say nothing will change and they will have to learn for themselves and hopefully teach others when and if they return with their nightmare story.

Hopefully that will not be Cal's fate. The keyboard only reveals some of the reality that is out there and most certainly does not reveal enough so one is always guessing and simply throwing out statements that are either relevant or not. I made my comments for Cal as I don't want him to get burned. I wish him the best. And ya know LP, a guy who does this all correct can get burned and then there is our Maui friend who got married after one meeting and all is going great with him. Cal could ignore all the rules and come out smelling like a rose.

However in my own way I will call them as I see them.

... in response to Re: Nah....., posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...fine my good doctor, tact and diplomacy beat the hard truth anyday of the week. Here, let me show you what kind of response the truth gets. ;-)

I have come to realize that this all boils down to risk vrs reward, cost vrs benefit. While many focus on the risk/cost, it strikes me the real issue with many MOB men is benefit/reward. Take old Cal there for instance. He speaks about a nasty prior divorce but here he is engaged in a process that, compared to the "normal" way of doing things, has many more variables that logically make it far riskier the same will happen. In fact, most MOB guys seem to have had one or more hard knocks yet they can't wait for another go at it and think this is the answer.

Why do they do it? My observations are that those who are willing to take such risks are simply more in need of the benefits. After all, why is the motivation so powerful?  Seems MOB draws such folks like a magnet, otherwise they would see the risk clearly outweighs the benefit. Or does it? This is the crux of the matter. It depends on how badly one perceives his need for the benefit. There are simply those that are more dependent on others to be happy, to feel complete. There are those that see women as a neccessity in life instead of an enhancement. Something they simply must have or else life is painful for them. I like women also but not enough to foolishly believe that a marraige license makes them immune from sticking it to me. It's funny how many MOB guys are so needy to think it does, in many cases these are the same guys who should know better.

I see it all the time in such statements as "I wake up everyday and thank God I found her", "It's all worth it", or "I couldn't be happier". Are these people so unhappy in life that they must thank God they found someone to be with? Does it rachet up their sense of well being so much they had to muster like lemmings to the FSU sea? Is it just me or does anyone else see how telling this is about a certain type of personality? I submit that people who're less dependent on others for happiness will view *quick* FSU relationship risks for what they truly are: more than they're worth. Because while the benefits of having a lady are nice, they're not (and should not) be what makes one's world go round.

If they do, it would explain much of the behavior observed herebouts. Many MOB guys seemed to have conditioned themselves to think two people must be joined to make each whole, else why would they keep coming back to it with such fever? And if they absolutely must have someone, couldn't there possibly be an easier way with less hassle than this one?

I guess it's because I've not been married for 20 years and have been plenty comfortable with the alternative of having a few around for a long time and moving on when it's time, saving myself lots of grief in the process. I've seen the risks and associated failures of MOB for years now and when I weigh them against my need for the benefits (and not the benefits themselves), I see it as a no brainer decision. I mean come on, it only took me one marriage to learn it isn't all it's cracked up to be. You'd think guys who keep getting their clocks cleaned and their hearts busted would wise up. Instead many rush into this where it's even more risky. Amazing....

In other words: there is no need to get burned, no need to take a big chance if one at least goes about it with some perspective. If the same effort was expended on learning where the fairer sex really belongs in one's life there would be a lot less foolishness going on. I guess it comes down to desperate people doing desperate things when they really oughta be looking inward and learning how to be less desperate.

As for our pal from Maui (now *there* is a man who demonstrated need, the poster boy for this theory), his "success" is an illusion based only on the short time involved. Anyone can pick a chick and do the deed, lets see how he does in 5 years or so. (I beleive they'll do OK though, for reasons you might be surprised at.)

... in response to You'll do....., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

It is wise to be cautious - but I still think the average guy, if he is able to handle / enjoy a cross-cultural relationship can get a prettier, sexier girl, with all other things being equal if he chooses the FSU route.  Are the chances high of getting burned - yes.  Is it more difficult - definitely.  Is it worth it......depends on the guy, luck and time.

... in response to Caution is wise, posted by Bobby Orr on Apr 25, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

.....prettier? Is that your goal? Is that your risk/reward criterion?
Is *that* worth the chances of getting badly burned?

Seems like a classic case of thinking with your hockey stick there Bobby ;-)

... in response to You'll do....., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

That's a long time to be single (I was for many years after my first marriage) A lonely depressing time to begin with, but I soon got to enjoy a life of freedom and no compromising, (I understand fully your desire to keep that) great for awhile until I became tired of going from one woman to another and my thoughts grew more concerned with raising another family and finding less and less decent women without baggage here in England available to me, and I don't have an infinate number of years to raise them children nor an infinate number of years to find a decent woman here.

Sure I could've remained single and had more children, it already happened. I now have son and daughter and am lucky if I get to see them once every two years, as the courts in this country offer little protection to unmarried fathers and zero protection if the mother happened to already be married.

Maybe you don't have any children, maybe you never wanted them, maybe you'll never want any, I've never read in any of your posts anything about them. If I remember rightly you are now about fifty, still have some vitality and youth, and can enjoy the company of many single women out there, where will you be when you reach seventy? I rather hope that I'll be enjoying the company of wife, children and grandchildren.

It's not just about having any woman to complete our lives, as most of the guys here I would guess have the same motivations as myself. There's the long run to consider.

Sadly for you, the deal here (imposed by our guvmints) is K1 and marriage. That rules out RW in your life. You can't keep your cake and eat it too!

... in response to 20 years, posted by Pordzhik on Apr 25, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

....I've been divorced since 1977 and have two children who are now adults with children. I've not been single, in all that time I have had an emtpy house for a total of 3 years. The shortest of those deals was 5 years, the longest 14. Just no marriages and I'm thankful for that because they were fairly painless in the end. Some had to end because of work, I've changed careers three times. (While stability in life is good, I believe monotony is bad.)

I'm in the same situation now, living with a nice woman. While I have had the oppurtunity of enjoying the company of many single women I have rarely used that option.

I'm well aware of the "long run" and don't plan on being alone. I already have the children, grand children, etc, and want no more children. I started out early and now it's my time to enjoy life as I see fit. I have no problem with pursuing this except the 90 day timeline. I got into this as a curiousity and have never been on a "mission". After two years I found something at home that I consider superior to anything I found there. I've also met a few young and beautiful R/W located in North America but decided against them. For example, Quebec is a gold mine of R/W, makes it a lot easier than dealing with the FSU.

I can have my cake and eat it too, at least for now. But one thing I've learned is nothing is forever. Every couple who stands on the alter today thinks they'll be different and will last. Jokingly, being in love seems to be worst time to get married. And there is something about spending your entire life with only one person that strikes me as odd. Variety is the spice of life and all that....

I'll marry again one day, I have nothing against it as long as I take the time to do it right and when I know there will be little chance of it exploding. The older we both are the better those chances will be and I'm capable of being satisfied even with being single, if need be.

I understand my situation may be different than others and my FSU interests aren't dead, I just see an easier way without the risks for the time being. But you can bet if I do ever get involved again I will take as much time as needed. The first time around was a learning process that  only instilled more caution. I've learned much from these woman about their real motives when I was no longer their target, they aren't scammers but their first priority has been escape in every single case. Love has nothing to do with it because they themselves admit love can't happen in the *typical* FSU short time scenario, only after they arrive is that chance possible.  They want a happy marrriage and hope for the best, but for most of them they first want out of the life they have. Thats something most guys simple refuse to believe.

As for women in England, yeah, you have my understanding. From what I've seen the cupboard is indeed pretty bare.

... in response to In reality..., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

Plenty of time for you yet, I agree that the 90 days K1 the US imposes on you guys is a bit short, here we get six months to consider if we've made the right choice before marriage and another year on top of that if we decide to pull out of the arrangement and she gets sent back.

Seems like the US is an easier option for those women with less than sincere motives.

Despite being amongst the richest people in the world, I see here too many of you americans concerned with costs of travel to far away FSU, and many going for the one trip of two weeks, getting engaged, doing the K1 and bringing a wife back they hardly know, recipe for disaster. I went over for many trips to get to know my wife, even just for weekends, hardly possible for most from USA with high airfares and short vacation time, but it's not easy they got to cough up that cash and be prepared to take any amount of time and trips over to be sure they found the right one.

As you don't want any more children, I think your best bet then would be to go for a woman a little older who has children already, as any young woman who claims she don't want them is either lying or got something wrong with her hormones.

... in response to You'll do....., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

Nicely done.  Sometimes the truth hurts.  I've often thought of you as the guy who pees on the campfire, but can find fault with little that you say.  I started in this persuit believing all the BS the agencies said....unspoiled 50's vintage girls only looking for a good man.  Took a while to figure out that girls are girls no matter where you find them.

The numbers of available women were/are overwhelming...all ages, shapes, sizes, occupations.  Doctors, lawyers, engineers, bio-chemists...just pick one.  Ah, if life were just so easy.  Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do the most difficult thing we will ever do in our lifetimes.
(Finding a great mate)

Some will argue that a girl can only be a good actress for a few weeks or months or meetings.  I think they can be good actresses for as long as it takes...it's their nature.

Guys can rationalize anything.  The efficacious word can become truth if you say it to yourself long enough....this is why, how, and the way I'll make it work.

This persuit holds promise, as long as you keep your head on straight, but no more so than finding one here if you try hard enough. The choices though, over there, are so varried.

I'll say it again, "Look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be."....and cover your ass, just in case.

... in response to You've Said It All!, posted by Globetrotter on Apr 25, 2003

So what is 3 inches of correspondence? (your profile)

... in response to Re: You've Said It All!, posted by thesearch on Apr 25, 2003

Actually the 3 inches of correspondence has turned into 5 or more.  The first I dated was a scammer (34) from Minsk, the next a "needy" (40) Ukrainian, before I found my Russian girl.  I have never doubted the seriousness of the persuit, goal or work involved.  I still don't know if I'm up to the task.  I've told her all my concerns and she still wants in.  

I don't think I fit into the "needy" catagory...enhancement
I like.  I do think this is the most difficult thing we will ever do, and maybe take it more seriously than others.

Any guy who marries any woman takes a great chance.  Anyone can be conned, so how lucky do you feel?  Two of the 3 I met wanted a change of address more than they wanted a partner.  Hell, even Jack will tell you that 50% are scammers.  My rate was 66%.

My Dad owned a retail store in a Polish and Lithuanian neighborhood and was fluent in those languages and got most of their trade.  I dated girls right off the boat from when I was 18.  Their accents were almost identical, as well as their living conditions are today. I didn't mind. I always thought maybe you start with a little better stock and takes your chances.  I watched Eastern Europeans change to Americans before God got the news!  That's OK when niether of you have anything to lose and both start out pretty even.

I've lost once like many, and didn't like it then, and would like it less now.  So, I've got more of an LP attitude
when it comes to pulling the trigger again.

I always thought that you had better be better than the best
to play this game, and still, your world can come tumbling down.  My squeeze has told me about her lying, cheating, drinking ex-husband.  I told her about my "bimbette."(little
bimbo)

So, Dr. Search, I'm still thinking about it, trying to do it right or not at all....and doing it wrong scares the Hell out of me. And, I tell her of all my concerns and why I feel this way.

... in response to Re: Re: You've Said It All!, posted by Globetrotter on Apr 25, 2003

Well sounds like you have your wits about you so, your odds are better than would be otherwise. I wish you well. I will be interested to see how your story unfolds so please keep posting. Many of the posts are meetum/marryum so we need a little diversity.

As to temperament,  I think that I am pretty much settled into your view about all of this. My reservations right now and things just too busy right now have me just sitting back and looking right now.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: You've Said It All!, posted by thesearch on Apr 25, 2003

Thanks, and I will continue to post.  Good luck to you too.

... in response to You've Said It All!, posted by Globetrotter on Apr 25, 2003

...you've said it all: "Took a while to figure out that girls are girls no matter where you find them."

If I could give only a few pieces of advice to those just starting out, it would be those words and to look past any beauty. (lol, if that seems simple enough why do so many ignore it?) Btw, the choices there seem little different than here if they are viewed in the context of your comments.

Yes, the pursuit does have promise. Lest my thoughts be considered a condemnation of the process, it is not. I refer only to the risks taken by those who fail to take enough time. The ones who don't (imho the majority) have no right to come crying after it fails. Contrary to popular belief, there *is* a wrong way to go about this. Nevertheless, I'll be condemed for this line of thinking because those in need are, well, in need.

Pissing on the campfire? Someone has to, before it gets too big and burns those too transfixed by it's flames. I'll admit, it does makes the fire stink a little though.

... in response to Well, actually...., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

The "choices" here or there are indeed the same.  It is the massive number of choices over there I was referring to.

Yoe/Joe's line...."It's the greatest singles bar in the world, but will cost you a $2G cover charge to walk in the door."

PS: I'm thinking about a Cirrus SR20.  With my luck, I'll be the first to use the chute!

... in response to Re: Well, actually...., posted by Globetrotter on Apr 25, 2003

...and ride it in, the chute is for puzzies ;-)

It's already been done last year. Guy had an aileron fly off after an annual. Saved his bacon and even the ship was in good shape because it came down in the trees. Not the typical scenario for sure. Been a few fatalities in the 20/22, for some reason they chose not to fire the rocket or they couldn't because the handle was jammed. There was a service bulletin out on it awhile back.

A nice toy however, especially the avionics. Better stuff than in some older heavy iron. I flew a 22 not long ago, it was nice but I still prefer the L39. ;-)

... in response to lol, be a man......, posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

Gee, if I owned an aerobatic fighter jet good for 9 pos or neg G's, I think I'd like that better too...even if she can't sit on your lap during a max power takeoff.  Don't know if I'd like my AmEx card to be short a Gnote for an afternoon's worth of fuel.  But I bet you feel 3 inches longer after you land!

... in response to Well, actually...., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

"Pissing on the campfire? Someone has to, before it gets too big and burns those too transfixed by it's flames. I'll admit, it does makes the fire stink a little though."

Very good typical LP response LOL

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

BTW,

For me personally, her telling that she considered using you for money would make me drop her like a hot potatoe. There are just too many women over there to not do this. Go read Travis's story below.

... in response to BTW, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

She said her friends were doing it.
So there is a reason why the idea came into her head:
It was in the environment.
She also said she changed her environment.
"Ex-girlfriends" and "new agency" sounds like
an OK beginning to putting it behind her.
And, no harm, no foul, right?

Maybe the thing to do was wait a few weeks
and see if she asked for money.  But that
opportunity is past.

... in response to the power of a bad idea, posted by vagn on Apr 23, 2003

I agree.

Once you spill the beans, you have spilled them and there is a new response that is created. Some times it is better to wait in silence and let those who will hang themselves do so. More information only arms those with wrong intentions.

... in response to Re: the power of a bad idea, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

My main point was that she recognised that
she was in a bad environment, that it was
a bad influence, that her cynicism was misplaced,
and that she took steps to change things.

Cal is continuing, though cautious.  I think
his approach is good, and I wish him luck.

... in response to my main point was, posted by vagn on Apr 23, 2003

I misunderstood you. Thanks for the clarification.

However, from what I get your conclusion as to her actions is an assumption at this point.

I remember as a child I was with some friends. It was Halloween. My friends wanted to do some vandalism and justified it because is was Halloween. I did not buy it and left them and went home. They proceeded to do what they wanted. I refused to participate.  People do have a choice.

There are just too many screwy things here. Her reason for the local ad was nuts. Again, too many women over there to choose from to take any chances. I am not saying for him to dump her although I would however, he needs to consider her a scammer or of ill intention until proven otherwise. To not do so IMHO is not wise but a course for disaster.

... in response to Oh, posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

Yeah, at some point it starts to sound like
a recent occupant of the White House.

... in response to didn't inhale, posted by vagn on Apr 24, 2003

asdf

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

Small world. :-)

... in response to Re: Hey, that's what my Olga sez to me a..., posted by wsbill on Apr 23, 2003

But lucky you do!!