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Hi,
  I guess i'm not a lurker because i only found this 2 days ago. you can classify me a newbie however. in just 2 short days i have read many posts in the archives and the new additions. this is a great site. i hope you will welcome me as a friend. i have been able to meet several ladies through different agencies over the last 14 months. they do come and go don't they? ya'll now the various reasons i'm sure. finally i posted my own ad and had more than one person can handle. a few months ago, i narrowed my choices to 2. both from ukraine. one lady had a profile and the other has no profile posted. her girlfriend to took her to an agecy, but she decided to write a couple men before posting anything. she told me that of the men that wrote back, me and a man from canada showed the most interest. a few e-mails later she said she quit writing him. mostly because we had more in common. she is somewhat of a small city girl and likes to garden and spend alot of time outside as do i. she has sent some very nice pics and writes me daily. seems like a very cool and respectable girl. she has one son and her parents are deceased. the first lady and i were getting along great. she has a child as well and lives with her invalid dad and alcoholic brother who will not work. she said that she rents a computer. she also wrote me daily. all of a sudden, i get this letter one day that says because her daughter has been sick( i knew that) and  she has paid for doctor visits that she doesn't have the money for the computer for awhile. not once did she ever ask for money. never even brought it up. she requested that it may be 2 or 3 weeks before she could write again. she wanted me to write her everyday so that when she is on-line again, she will have plenty to read and will know that i have not forgotten her. btw, i have written short letters to her everyday. it is now day 13.a liitle background. she had a 3 yr. relationship with this guy in italy. she broke it off last august but said they are still friends. she says letters from time to time is all. of the 2 ladies i preferred her the most. my close friend here tells me that she is probably out playing but i'm not for sure. i have to respect the fact that she didn't hit me up financially. i wish i had had more of a warning that she couldn' write for awhile. i may have paid for thae hook-up. i realize that finances are terrible in ua. i probably can't imagine the lifestyle. i do have some questions for some of you. first what do guys think? can you rent pc's in ua.? is it expensive to check e-mail at other places? she lives in chernihiv. i will continue to send a letter everyday at least for a while longer. in the meantime i still write lady #2 daily. she would like to meet me in kiev next month. she would like to travel there with her girlfriend(who btw is married to an american and is waiting for her visa) just for a little translation help if we need it. she sent me pics of an apartment that i could rent, $20-30/ day(her girlfriend said it's where her husband and her stayed) because hotels were more expensive. it all sound on the up and up to me. what do you guys think? i know this is long winded but i could use some outside opinions. btw. she is sending me an invitation. this is my first trip to ua. i will thank you in advance and look forward to joining in. any particular visa services out there that you would recommend? how about g3? thanks

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

This lady may be legit but, the scammers are getting more sophisticated now days. The more clever ones do not ask for money they just let you know about a circumstance that will affect their ability to write etc. They then wait to see if you will come up with the cash that is needed to remedy whatever the problem is.

I do not know of being able to rent computers, I doubt it, so hopefully that is just a translation problem really meaning that she rents a computer for an hour at an Internet cafe.

Now, don't assume this is a scam if anyone below is saying the same thing. I experienced a few situations that red scam all over it that turned out to be not such at all. So, real situations can imitate scam techniques.

Now, you left out an important point. After she told you about the problem of a computer being available was she available for one or two e-mails after to see your response?

Did you ask her about the cost that she had in communicating to you? If so, did she give you a price? The answers to these questions can help to know if she is legit. If she is legit you should help her with those costs as the financial burden for her to write to you is far more significant that any expense you might have.

Now, if she does not show up, you know for sure (kind of - always exceptions in life) that she was trying to play you.

Good luck to you and welcome

... in response to Hey Flash, posted by thesearch on Apr 16, 2003

thanks for all the help and suggestions from everyone. it's like a brotherhood out there. this is to cool. she hasn't written since the the cut. however, simonsays has given me some great insight to the situation off the board. i hope that i can be a valuable member of the team here. i will probably pursue lady #2 while in kiev. she has done some things above and beyond the call of duty. i found out tonight that she travelled 25 miles the other day just to find out about getting me an invitation so i can get a visa. she has no car so she probably took a bus or train. now i find out(from a brother off-the board) all i need is a name and address of a local person. i will have to find a gentle way to tell her that she didn't need to make the trip. my trip is just a month away and i can't wait. maybe a wovo is the way to go for just 10 days. thanks for accepting me on board. flash.

... in response to Re: Hey Flash, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

Flash, my  advice would be not to tell her that she did not have to make the trip, just thank her. There is no need to tell her. My rule ol thumb is only share negatives when needed.

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

I use Red Star travel for my visa needs.  They're sometimes more expensive than dealing with the Ukrainian embassy directly, but it's a lot easier.  If you do a web search on them, you should find them.  If you don't locate them, email me and I'll find it for you.

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

n/t

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

Hey Flash

Welcome aboard!

One thing you may have picked up from browsing this site is that most of us are pretty tuned in to the possibility of getting stung, and how best to avoid it, without becoming so cynical that you miss out on the real one. It's a tricky balance sometimes!

About renting a computer; it is extremely unlikely that a computer could be rented in Ukraine, least of all by a private individual. It would grow legs and disappear overnight (you'll understand when you go there.) Personally I would bet a pound to a penny that when she says "rent a computer" she actually means using the internet cafe or something similar (sometimes their terminology isn't quite correct, even if they speak good English).

I've been around long enough to be very wary if a girl says she can't write for a while. Does she already know how long her child is going to be ill? Again, possible but be careful; it could also mean that she is out of the country, visiting someone else... sorry to sound negative, but I have seen it all happen! I would recommend that you invest in a couple of telephone calls to her home during the next couple of weeks (living standards are generally poor, but even in the worst circumstances I never met anyone out there who did not have a phone, or at least a friend whose phone they could use to receive your pre-arranged call).
If she agrees, you are probably on a good track.

First trip to Ukraine? It's a poor country with difficult living conditions... but you may well find you don't want to leave. The people are great, but they are not given to being loud and demonstrative; if someone smiles out there, it's usually genuine.

Good luck!

... in response to Re: not a lurker but a newbie, posted by Streetwise on Apr 16, 2003

My wife's mother had been on a waiting list for years to get a phone when I first met my wife-to-be.  Only now, 3 years and a lot of bribing later, does she have a phone.  There are others in her neighborhood that are without phones as well and are probably on that same waiting list.

Don't assume that everyone has phones over there.  A lot of women I wrote to didn't have them.  I think there's a shortage of phone numbers over there in certain regions.  I know that Sevastopol is particularly problematic...

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

Welcome Flash.  I found your post more than interesting. In fact, I believe I am writing to one of your lady friends. All of the details you gave about this woman were just too similar to my own "friend".  I'm quite sure it's her. I would appreciate it if you contacted me off the board because I believe  we have a lot to talk about. The sooner the better!  I can be reached at WLIP@AOL.com.

... in response to Re: not a lurker but a newbie, posted by SimonSays on Apr 16, 2003

simon,
    tried to send 2 messages to you at that address and both came back. i will bummed if this is the same lady, but you are right, it's better to know now. which lady were you referring to? first name will be enough to know.

... in response to Re: Re: not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

FLASH--Excuse me.  My correct e-mail address is:  WLIP770@AOL.com

... in response to Re: Re: Re: not a lurker but a newbie, posted by SimonSays on Apr 16, 2003

Sounds interesting. Once you guys figure out what is going on. It it is a scam issue it could be of help to the newbies to see an example of such.

... in response to Is it Simonsays or Simondoesnot say :), posted by thesearch on Apr 18, 2003

i discovered that simonsays, said alot and it was very much appreciated. we figured it out and we were hot on the same trail. buddy, you crack me up. i won't say anything. i'll just keep ya'll guessin. i think we're going to have some fun. now it is time to get down to business and take this trip to ua. i'm sure the ones who have gone before know the anticipation is overwhelming. those of you who are still considering, go ahead and experience the rush!! if it's money, forget about it. the great thing about money is that it can always be replaced.

... in response to Re: Is it Simonsays or Simondoesnot say ..., posted by FLASH2D on Apr 18, 2003

Hey Flash,

You have a great adventure. That is what life is for.

I have been twice. Things did not ultimatley work the way I wanted but it was well worth it.

Hey --- what ya mean keep me guessin? :)  --- or did Simon spill the beans. I am a curious one so don't do it too long.

And, make sure you give us a trip report when you return.

The best of luck to you. The day you board that jet will be here sooner than you think. Good luck to you.

... in response to Is it Simonsays or Simondoesnot say :), posted by thesearch on Apr 18, 2003

It just turned out that Flash and I were writing to the same woman. Since neither of us had made any commitments to her, we'll just call her a "free agent" for now. I wouldn't call her a scammer--it appears she's just playing the field, a bit of a free spirit and not always easy to figure out.

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

your lady is probably using an internet cafe. It can cost about a dollar an hour which is a lot of money for these ladies. Ask her how much it cost, and if you're willing, pay up. It is better not to send money until after you've visited and have some interest or relation going.

... in response to not a lurker but a newbie, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

Keep on reading the archives.  All your questions are repeatedly answered in them.

... in response to Welcome aboard, posted by Bobby Orr on Apr 16, 2003

BOBBY
   thanks for the welcome. there are over 20 months worth of archives to go through. i enjoy the info i have seen so far, especially the trip reports and general info. some of the sparring session get out of hand but boys will be boys. i will continue to look for a good visa service but i just wanted a quick reference. thanks.

... in response to Re: Welcome aboard, posted by FLASH2D on Apr 16, 2003

If you are from NYC or Washington it is possible to process all the paperwork yourself for what is now $90 for a single entry Ukraine visa.  I believe the travel agents charge double that fee roughly ie. $180 or $185.  The Russian visa suprisingly has stayed $120 for the travel agent to process the visa while the Ukraine visa went up.......go figure.  Panorama travel is very good, but pricey at $185 last I checked for the Ukraine visa and $130 for the Russian visa.  Russian National Group is $120 for the Russian visa.  There are many groups out there.  If you are in Chicago there is another embassy you can go through.  I have gotten a Ukrainian visa myself - I found the time and effort wasted was worth paying the travel agent.

... in response to Depends where you are from, posted by Bobby Orr on Apr 18, 2003

hey bobby,
   i have looked over the applications and i agree. there are some what tend to look like trick questions. it seems it would be less hassle to dish out the dough. thanks.