Print Page - UW's who leave children at home

Hi Guys -

Thanks for all the replies, I had written a thread (see below) about a UW with whom I've been corresponding with and what problems might entail if it gets to the point she comes back to the U.S. with me. I know I'm taking a big jump in the timeline here, but better to understand this now then be reactive down the road if things do work out.

I want to clarify a few things, this is as much as I know. I am writing her through a very legit agency and have spoken with her. She is very pleasant and upbeat. I had asked inquired to her children coming over to the U.S (they are both under 10) and she did not want to go into all the details (she is using an interpreter). But said her ex is "holding her children hostage". Not sure what that exactly implies. I don't think there are any legal restrictions which would prevent her from bring them back, and its not that she wouldn't. She is very close to her kids, she talks about them all the time, I have a number of photos of both. I think you can tell by a pic, and her kids really look great and well behaved.

Her children also adore their father and the dad cherishes the kids, so with this alone, it might be difficult to bring them, I would not want to rip the kids away from their dad w/o his approval. She did tell me, that if things were better between her and her ex, she would not even be looking abroad, but things apparently have gotten to the point where she can not stand it anymore, he wants her back but she wants nothing more to do with him, I guess he is making her life unbearable, that is the conclusion I am coming too.

As to the obvious, I know how tight UW and RW families are. I know this would be a monumental effort on her part, since she is close to her kids. I have tried to talk about why the children must remain, but she avoids this and only wishes to discuss this when we meet. I'm not the type of person to ignore a problem hoping it will disappear, in this case I think it is better to confront this in the open even if it is uncomfortable for her to talk about. Any comments would appreciated.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home, posted by chuck12 on Mar 12, 2003

You know, for all the problems marriages have when everything is perfect, ie, marry the childhood sweetheart who lived next door, I think any wild obstacles thrown in is a recipe for disaster.

In my situation I think I've done most things right...maybe
as we've met several times, write almost every day, known each other for 2 years, age police can't fault us, language skills and communication are great, she opens up her heart and we discuss everything, and everything seems very well. Different than others, all my business is overseas, I can go anywhere, anytime, money isn't a problem, and I own the store. Still, I'm not comfortable with the idea. Reason...throw in all the changes necessary from cultural, language, lonliness, etc., etc., etc.,and how well equipped I am to be counselor, mentor, teacher, father, and I take a step back. I think when the Disneyland scenario wears off after a few months, the real work and reality sets in. She
may be incredibly happy...maybe not. My lawyer says there is not much risk...financially. Still, I cringe. Why? My sister lives in Paris, is an artist, married to a French PhD
who is a magnificent fellow, has a perfect family (little boy and girl, both bi-lingual)was fluent in the language 10 years ago, loves France, is a dual national, and married 5 years. (Sounds like it doesn't get much better) She was unhappy as she didn't have her family and friends nearby and didn't make enough French friends to make up for her loss. She has plenty of money to come home any time she likes and does many times per year. She is not a spoiled feminist, and a great sister with her head on straight, didn't move to a country or culture she was unfamiliar with, and she gave her husband fits. This is only one example of what can go wrong if everything seems perfect. They even had marriage ceremonies there and here, and we hosted several of his French relatives at our houses.

Actually, I'm about to call it off and bail. And, I'm a very positive person, but at the same time realistic.

Please save the criticism for those of you who have succeeded, or think you have. You just have bigger
"stugats" than me, or haven't taken off the rose colored glasses yet.

Advice for you.............I have none, except, "Look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be."

Best of luck to all.

... in response to Re: UW's who leave children at home, posted by Globetrotter on Mar 12, 2003

Hey Globe,

My take is your post has some information - just enough for people to come up with all kinds of possible conclusions that may or may not have anything to do with reality. Isn't that typical?

In an ideal world it would have been nice if you had figured out you were not ready for marriage before you started this whole process with a woman from the FSU. Certainly would have been better if you had not taken two years to understand yourself and even now you are not still sitting on the fence threatening to jump ship but you haven't - not yet.

But then again, maybe it is not important at all and the timing has been perfect. Perhaps the lady you have been involved with for this past two years was not seeing you because of marriage interests at all on her part. Maybe she just was only interested in trips in exchange for sex or maybe you two never had sex. Maybe she was actively pursuing other men this whole time and thus loosing you would not create any problems or delays and all simply had a great time.

However, if this lady is like most, only participating because of genuine interests in getting married and in addition if she has focused on you for the past two years well, your lack of finding yourself in all of this has taken two years of her life. A major window of opportunity may have passed for her because of her focus on you or, maybe the delay actually saved her from a guy that would have made her life miserable. Everything until it happens is merely speculation.

I think the bottom line is that if you are not interested in marriage, you could be hurting someone out there by being really in the final analysis an unwilling participant. Again, Globe, you are the only one who knows all the facts, the only thing is that you have been slow at knowing yourself, your needs, your fears and how they would ultimately impact you and any lady you have been courting. What has happened to you has happened to many well intentioned people, it is just life. Good luck to you.

... in response to Re: UW's who leave children at home, posted by Globetrotter on Mar 12, 2003

is doing the right thing. He knows that after two years with multiple trips to see her if this girl in this situation is right for him or not. Most of us are a bunch of romantics and hate to see a break up without a serious affront having been committed. However, GT has thought it through. There is no doubt that almost any other kind of relationship makes much more sense than dating an FSU woman. My situation seems to be unfolding differently. I have known my girlfriend for over two years, have visited her four times, been all over Europe and Africa together. I had huge doubts and mega suspicions at first, at second and third. I hung in there and found that I was projecting a lot of the crap that was routinely slung on this website once upon a time: the "they're all scammers" cry. We have grown so close together and I hope she'll be here later in the year (paperwork pending).

Of course, I am concerned about what she will do here. She is very concerned, too. She likes to study, so she will enroll in the school here. That will give her something to do. And I have a lot of woman friends (colleagues) who would like to meet her. We both like to travel and enjoy cultural experiences. There is always something to do. But the most important thing is how she and I get along here with each other, day-to-day. That's what it's all about. If our attachment grows, we plan to have children (neither of us has children). All I know is now we both feel ready for this. I have my insecurities at time, like everyone does, including her, but I don't have any doubts that she is an amazing woman and I want her influence on my life in a daily basis, and we are totally going for it.

... in response to Re: UW's who leave children at home, posted by Globetrotter on Mar 12, 2003

Globetrotter,
I know nothing about UW but do know about what you are experiencing due to my wife being from the Philippines. Having said that, my advice is simple. Imagine that from this instant on, you will never have contact with this lady again for the rest of your life - period. You will never even know if she is dead or alive. Can you live with that? If the answer is "No' then I would give some serious thought before ending what you have together.
SteveG

... in response to could happen............, posted by Globetrotter on Mar 13, 2003

GlobeTrotter,
In a way, I think you are saying you aren't very sure you could live without her, right? I mean, you are more or less implying that she will stay in contact with you and be your friend. At least it looks to me like you want that. Well, if there is that much of a bond between the two of you and you can't point to anything concrete that is wrong, then why are you in such doubt? Hey, I'm not nitpicking you, just trying to keep you from making a big mistake due to being overly cautious for no apparent reason.
Good Luck,
SteveG

... in response to Re: could happen............, posted by SteveG on Mar 14, 2003

Thanks for your thoughts. My concerns are as I stated in several posts, and for me they are very apparent reasons.
My contacts with 2 others I have known contact me to ask how westerners think, and tell me how and what they are doing, and who they're engaged to and from where. One, who is engaged even wanted to shack up in Spain...so I'm glad I saw through her early on. (What a lucky fellow who gets her!) I would always respond to a friend and help in most any way. If one were to choose not to stay in touch, I'm OK with that.

It took a while for me to realize just how much work and sacrifice was involved in marrying one of these girls, and with a child is another life you become responsible for.

So you can say I'm cautious, also realistic. By the way, I do care for her very much. We'll see where it goes.

... in response to Re: UW's who leave children at home, posted by Globetrotter on Mar 12, 2003

I am not here to judge you. I am not here to tell you that you are right or wrong. I just want to give you a little saying that has helped me many times. One time someone told me "We can either see the good in a situation or the bad in a situation. Its up to us because both are usually there."

I am not telling you this to convince you to be with this girl. I don't care how wonderful you are or how wonderful she is. The fact remains that if you are looking so hard to find a reason it may not work out, then you probably are not ready for the relationship and have no business dragging her or you through the drama. Instead of being critical of you, I commend you for not proposing to her. When you are really ready for a relationship, you will spend more time looking for ways to succeed than ways to fail. Just remember risk of failure is always present in any relationship. When the risk seems worth it, the doubts will not stop you.

Best of luck.

... in response to Re: Re: UW's who leave children at home, posted by DanM on Mar 12, 2003

You are right in that there are ways to succeed and ways to fail. In either case there is a 50/50 chance. I don't like the odds. To me the risk is not worth the reward. Others may feel more needy, but I don't. Nobody is saying they are wonderful or otherwise. I am honest with myself and others and am as good as I can be right now. You either feel comfortable with the situation and the possibilities or you don't. I don't, and gave my reasons why. To look more toward the positive than the negative doesn't work for me.

I see more negatives than positives in the process, and maybe more work in training up someone than I can handle, and still anything can happen no matter how hard you try. Whereby I see my girl as a great person and honest, and exotic, I still can't pull the trigger.

Such is the process. Some get engaged in a week and roll the dice. Everyone probably goes into the chase with great expectations. I read everything I could on many boards and come away with my opinion. This board has helped greatly.

What's right for you isn't necessarily right for me, as after all, we are all different and our lifes experiences,
suffice it to say also differ.

I wish everyone wonderful experiences and great happiness, although only half of you will succeed.

Best of Luck.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: UW's who leave children at h..., posted by Globetrotter on Mar 12, 2003

As a newbie to this group I have been lurking for a few months and made a few posts but I could not resist jumping on this one with both feet. Mind you I do not know you and am not judgeing you ...I am sure you are a nice person. I am merely going to give you my feelings after I had read the above posts by you. I read them several times because each time I came away with a different feeling. First some background so everyone will know me. I am a 66 yr young guy that lives in Atlanta and is now planning a trip to Kiev. Married twice. 29 yrs( she 5yrs younger) and 5 yrs( she 25 yrs younger) and divorced 9 yrs. The first time I read your post the question in my mind was...How much has he been sending to her each month to keep her hanging on for 2 yrs? Then I thought Thats not fair ...read it again. Next time,,, This guy has been making promises ( maybe implied) and leading her on and now he is going to bail and she will be devastated and heart broken... What a nice guy he must be !!.. If this had been an AW she would have dumped you long ago because she would have seen that you were a player. Read it again.... "you are the type of person that Looks for the negatives not the positives" (your words) I sure hope you do not do that in business otherwise you would never take an order from a customer. Guess what... there is only a 50/50 chance that anything we do in life will work out right (or wrong)....my favorite saying is "If you think you can succeed or you think you can't, you are probably right"

I have done it twice and I am ready to do it again.There is a line in a song that says "There is nothing I've done that I wish I'd done less but there is some I wish I'd done more" and having a partner to share myself with is one I want to do more. Am I looking for my true love and my soul mate ...no, dont"t know what that is. Just give me a lady that will be fun to be with. and be FAITHFUL AND HONEST, will jump my bones whenever and will make me feel like I am the center of her world because I will do the same for her and we will enjoy each day we have together be it 5 days or 5 yrs .because that is what life is all about.

Hope I made sense and again no offense meant.

Larry

... in response to wow...Globetrotter you blow my mind...., posted by exlabman on Mar 12, 2003

Lets go easy on him Larry. I really do think he is doing the right thing by ending it now. Maybe it would have been better for the lady if he had done it sooner, but I still commend him for understanding he is not emotionally ready for the jump. Too many people cannot face that hard choice and it ends badly for everyone later on.

For whatever its worth, I am also sympathetic to your view of life. I think its better to go out there and swing away. I would rather make my mistakes while trying and reaching than make the mistake of not living my life to the fullest. Lets just remember that all of us are in a different place emotionally. Obviously this guy is not there so its best to let him make decisions he can live with.

I hope you keep posting Larry. Also please do not hessitate to ask any questions that might come to mind. Good luck.

... in response to wow...Globetrotter you blow my mind...., posted by exlabman on Mar 12, 2003

No, your post makes no sense. I have never sent a monthly "allowance" (she makes plenty) and never made any promises, implied or otherwise. If getting laid was the goal, I wouldn't need to leave my neighborhood.

Good for you...go for 5 years or 5 days of happiness, and if that is what your life is all about, I think senility has set in. But, have fun in Kiev anyway.

What don't you understand? I don't have a high comfort level with the process. If I'm not sure I can do what I think would be necessary, what would you have me do? Should I bring a girl and her child here, after she has quit her job, told her family and friends, then send her home? Wow, that would not be devestating at all to her, right? No, I am not a "player" and trying to do what I think is right. I have thought about a "trial run" of 90 days, and decided against this.

Your analogy of comparing business to relationships leaves out feelings, and the people content, and are totally unrelated. I might work on a deal for 3 years, spend a fortune, and it brings nothing, or win the lottery. (Egypt comes to mind.) And, business is wonderful, but will get better. I have given more away than I have kept for myself
and do more for charity than any 10 people I ever met.

Get over it man. I just don't have a high comfort level with the process, and you are not wearing my shoes. In my mind, I am doing her a favor. She will do very well without me, and is very popular, and very good looking. We have visited many countries together niether had ever been to and had a wonderful time, and both learned things about long distance relationships, and each other. So sorry you can't put us in the "success column."

My life, my call.

... in response to Re: wow...Globetrotter you blow my mind...., posted by Globetrotter on Mar 13, 2003

Globe, what do you consider a success? You aren't ready to get married. That's that. You don't need to be trying to rationalize this for the people here. We don't know you and can't judge you. But you must be needing something or you never would have mentioned it in the first place.

Are you sure that you know the "truth" as you say? Do you really know why you're giving up? It sounds to me like you're afraid of failing to live up to what your lady will need. Running is definitely the easier choice. I'm not judging you or insulting you. It is your life and your choice. But it seems to me you aren't certain your making the right one. The only advice I can give you is, quit reading this board and talk to your lady. Explain to her your thoughts, fears, hopes and dreams. It's her life too. What if she doesn't want to end it all? You've no right to make this decision without her. If it's what she wants as well, then so be it.

The only certainty in life is the promise of death. You don't think a few years or even moments of happiness are worth trying for? Personally I'm with Larry. I've seen some nasty, nasty things. But those few happy memories are what makes it all bearable for me. I know how bad it can get. But I guess I'm too needy. I do need to love and be loved.

You don't need to reply to any of this. Your answers won't make any difference to my life. Just sit down, talk to the woman and be sure you really know what you're doing. And try not to get angry with people because they say something you don't agree with. Their opinions don't matter anyhow. Life's too short to get angry at everyone you disagree with.

... in response to Re: Re: wow...Globetrotter you blow my m..., posted by Zink on Mar 13, 2003

I will answer some of your questions, and some of Larry's
incorrect comments. As far as being angry with Larry: He assumes I had been sending money or making promises to "keep her hanging around", both wrong. He misquotes me by saying I am "looking" for negatives rather than positives. My statement was, "To look more toward the positive than the negative doesn't work for me. I see more negatives than positives in the process." If you put a line down the middle of a paper, positive things on one side, negatives on the other, look at them equally and don't "weight" the positive side more than the other, is what I meant. And, for me, the negatives outweigh the positives. Then, "You're a player and leading her on." So, Zink, that is what I take as offensive.

What makes you think I have not told my girl my thoughts, fears, hopes and dreams already...several times actually.
She brushes it aside and says not to worry about it, but obviously I do.

Absolutely right that I am afraid of failing to live up to what my lady, and her child will need....which many here would say is substantial.

What if she doesn't want to end it all? You know, both must feel comfortable with the situation. You can be a "people pleaser" if you like, but it will bite you in the ass in the end, if not way before.

Here's a question for you. Since you've been involved in this process for a while, do you now think this road is an easy one, with the work to be done after she gets here to be shrugged off as "nothing to it"? If your answer is yes, then maybe you are "too needy."

I said before that the only fears we are born with are the fear of falling and the fear of loud noises. All others are learned. Sometimes fear is a good thing and keeps you from doing something that may not be in ones best interest.

Thanks for your comments. Right now though, it's not right for me.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: wow...Globetrotter you blow ..., posted by Globetrotter on Mar 13, 2003

I understand. I'm very deeply involved in the same questioning myself. My life just took a 90 degree turn. But my situation isn't yours and I'm not going to go into my details here. But believe me, I know exactly what you're feeling now. It isn't easy at all.

I'm not defending Larry's statements other than the happiness part. But don't let it get to you. There are more important things in life than this board. I'm sure you realize that.

To answer your question, I don't know your lady well enough to make a good call. Some people understand the risks but are willing to ignore them to get what they want. Some are just plainly blind and foolish. The Russians that I know are a very determined group. Most are quite intelligent and down to earth. They know about risks and hard times but they when it comes time to make a decision they go full ahead and damn the consequences. It's part of what I like about them. They don't seem to sit around and whine and worry the way we do. Do or don't. Just make the choice and deal with what comes later. I had one Russian tell me,"there is no past and no future. Only now. Live!" That attitude explains a lot about life in Russia.

If I thought that the girl was the type that understood but was willing to work around the risks, I'd probably go for it. If I thought she was a blind fool, I wouldn't be seriously involved with her in the first place. I know what I want and need. My happiness isn't worth ruining someone else's life. Believe it or not I actually did walk away from a girl that loved me once because I knew I wasn't what she needed. Only you know how you really feel about the lady. Everyone(well almost) has doubts. It seems that your doubts are stronger than feelings for her. That doesn't bode well for the future if you do stay together. It is good to hear that you talk with her about these things. Many men wouldn't. I know a lot of guys who will tell the whole world everything but not their wife. That's a little backwards in my opinion.

I always advise people to do what is comfortable for them. But it's tougher when somebody you care about is involved. I don't know when it is best to hurt them or yourself. Sometimes those are the only choices we have. I don't have any answers but I think I've learned some of the important questions in life.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: wow...Globetrotter you b..., posted by Zink on Mar 13, 2003

We seem to be on the same page. Sure, we have talked about "what ifs" even down to how good the school system is in my town for her little one, to where to go for a walk, to where she would be able to get her nails done, where bike trails are. We talked about where the new piano would go in my house, or if I need a "music room addition." Did I like billiards and bowling...what would I do in retirement
etc.? I even asked the local moms if their 7 year olds would like a new playmate, and asked how old all their kids were. We talked about how often The Art Institute changed their exhibits, getaway weekends to Chicago, or weeks in other states.

Do you know that one of the most frequent complaints I have heard of Russian women here is boredom. They don't have any RW or AW to talk about their problems for hours with as we are too busy with everyday life. I think the changes are quite dramatic. Throw in a sick relative, or one that can't get a tourist visa to visit...things we have no control over. Then, how many times will you send a G note to the relative in need or when to call it a day.

That's just a small list of her questions and my potential preparation...rather overwhelming I think.

We on this this continent do have a past and hopefully a future, which must be planned for, unless you can move back with mom at 60!

Well, this is my partial list of what lies ahead and what we've discussed, which, I think, is rather "life altering."

For those who have not thought about such things, I would suggest you begin before she gets here. Finally, are you a "boat" for her, or is she really taken with you?

Yea.....I have lots of worries. Maybe Yoe/Joe can chime in.

Lots and lots of unknowns. So....how lucky do you feel? Just a little to think about. How to get engaged in a week?..well, I guess that's another show!

... in response to Good Response.......and, Hey... Yoe/Joe, posted by Globetrotter on Mar 13, 2003

Life altering. That's kind of the whole purpose isn't it? If I was happy with my life I sure as h3ll wouldn't have been tramping all over Europe and Asia looking for a woman. One thing I learned early on is that finding a woman is only going to add to your problems and not solve them. But it sure does feel go to not be alone. That's a pretty lousy excuse to get involved in this. But it is the number one reason for most of us.

You're asking good questions. More men should think about these things. Most worry more about how to meet a woman than what to do afterwards. I made my choices and I have my reasons for them. There were times I wanted to back out but I couldn't bring myself to do that to the girl or myself. Now it's all a moot point anyhow. Sometimes our choices are taken away from us. That isn't much fun either but it does make life simpler in some ways. For me making a decision is harder than acting on that decision. I think too much if I'm just sitting but once I'm moving I can handle almost anything. The waiting is always the worst part.

I've visited with several married RWs in Canada and the US. I've heard their thoughts on what was the hardest for them when they moved here. Most of the time it wasn't real big things. It was the overwhelming number of small changes that got to them. I'm hoping that my experiences in Russia will have better equipped me to handle this if I bring my girl home. But I won't know for certain until it happens and then it will be too late to back out.

There are certainly a lot of things to worry about. But the most important is how compatible are you and your lady. I've know people who lived through incredibly bad times. But they stuck together out of love and stubborness. We don't really have that much control over the world around us. But we do have control over our actions and how we deal with the crap that comes our way. Hopefully when a person gets married they find a spouse that is dedicated to them and their family. If you both have that dedication I think it can work. I've never had a succesful long term relationship so I could be just blowing wind. But my dead relationships ended because one or both of us decided it wasn't worth the effort. If you want the woman bad enough you'll have to let go of the fear and trust in her. If you can't do that then there's really nowhere to go together.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home, posted by chuck12 on Mar 12, 2003

Thanks for sharing more about your situation. At best, this will be a very tough situation. Are you really sure about this girl? You should be before you put yourself, her and her young children through the resulting drama.

Assuming she is being honest about everything, you do run a pretty big risk of heartbreak. It sounds to me like she is running away from a bad situation. If that is the case, then don't let yourself be a means to an end for her. You deserve better than that. You deserve to find someone who will love you for you and not someone who is trying to escape a bad situation.

Think about how girls are on the rebound after a breakup with a boyfriend and multiply it by 1,000. She could easily wake up one day a year from now and decide her feelings have changed. When people are in such an emotionally distressed state of thinking, you have no guarantees about how they will feel tomorrow. Thats because everything they feel and do is a reaction to some previous event. Its just not a smart place to be. Besides, there are plenty of girls you can meet who will have less emotional baggage to deal with.

On the off chance she is being dishonest, you could be set up for a scam. Bear with me. The legal costs of bringing the children will be significant. You are her knight in shining armor who wants to solve her problems.....I think you can see where it could be going. I am not saying that is the case, but it is something to consider. Just be careful and keep your eyes open.

Best of luck.

... in response to Re: Do the right thing... find someone e..., posted by wsbill on Mar 12, 2003

Bill, please trust that I agree with you.
But, how can you stop aheart from loving.
It is my guess that every and each time we tell him
that it doesn't make sense and to get someone else,
it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull,
he will just persisted and try to prove all of us wrong.
This is life.
Love is a funny thing, the best part about it,
is when you are going up the stairs and are dreaming,
once in the bedroom the work start, so to speak.

Planet-Love.com Searchable Archives

GoodWife / Planet-Love Archives => Threads started in 2003 => Topic started by: chuck12 on March 12, 2003, 05:00:00 AM