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Hi -
This is for those who have experience with UW/RW's who have children but are unable to bring them back to the U.S. I am involved with a UW who has children and it does not appear she is able to bring them with her. This is somewhat of a concern of mine.

Her ex is very much involved and they are very attached to him, though they live with  mom. Also, her folks are very attached to the kids. Does anyone see any major problems (other then the fact she will likely miss them terribly) or can offer feedback for those which have experience with a UW/RW under these circumstances. Thanks.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

Chuck,

I have read all of the posts below and thus have the advantage of posting after such.

Let me ask you this question. Could you leave your children if you had a choice? What type of person would not be able to do this as compared to one who could?

The older they are the more able one could do this. So, I agree that their ages are a very important issue here relative to giving advice.

However, even if they are in their teens 16 and lower this is not a time to leave your children - older more understandable. And, I agree you are going to have to factor in one to two trips per year for her to return to visit for a few years. If you can not do that financially, you can not afford this lady the way I look at it.

So, this all seems like a major red flag to me if these kids are not close to age 20.

Given this, you need to re-evaluate everything that has transpired and question once again anything in the past that got your attention as possibly not being right that you just glossed over because there was not just enough of something wrong for you to fixate on it.

Hunches or impressions that we let slip are the things that guys report remembering after they have been scammed or used. They will often tell you that the signs were there but they choose to ignore them. You need to look at the whole picture one more time perhaps.

If these children are young to early teens, I would be very leery of a woman who would leave them. This is a statement about who she is and that type of woman would not be someone that I personally would want to take a chance on.

So, please give all of those that took the time to respond the courtesy of giving a bit more information. If you do proceed, I am sure that many would like to hear how it all turns out as in the final analysis - it is only the experiences of those men here that we can rely on to better understand this venture of seeking a woman from the FSU.

Good luck to you,

Greg

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

Those children only have one mother. It is selfish to take her away from them so that you can get what you want. If she did agree to go with you, she won't be the same woman as a result. Good women don't desert their children.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

First of all, it seems that you are not telling it all. I would not be surprised that the children has spend a fair part of their life with the grandparents. I know this from my own RW's family.
The reasons are typical not good (bad husband, lack of jobs, bad apartment), but this makes the situation good. She CHOOSE as a mum, the best situation for her children and it's NOT like she is giving them up since they are with family.

So in the situation with romance. If she had a tough life, then she maybe can see a good life with you, for the first time in her life. And if the children like/used to the grandparents there should be no problems, as long you can find money on the budget to let her visit Ukraine twice a year. (basically, only the airline ticket = 100 USD/month)
Also see it from her view !! To leave country to with you, maybe that financial security to her children, to make sure they will have a good life. Sorry, extra money out of the pocket, but we talking 50-100 USD a month.

.. and you told us, that it was likely that the children would not get a permit to leave / enter your country. I will say, she is being rationel IF my previous statement is right.

But you're right, it will make her adjustment harder and could be a red flag - but only maybe.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

What are the ages of the children? If they are relatively young, then I agree with the posters below. It should be a red flag. If the are say mid-teens, however, then its a little different. Such children may be a little more independent and not want to leave the lives they have begun in their homeland. Could you please give us a little more information on the children?

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

and single mothers with kids out there that would just love to be with you!

Don't tell me... She's the first lady you met and you feel obligated by your honor to give her a better life.

Betcha, if you bring her stateside she'll be returning home on the 89th day or lesser.

... in response to Re: Good news....there's a ton of single..., posted by wsbill on Mar 11, 2003

Betcha, if you bring her stateside she'll be returning home on the 89th day or lesser.

Either that, or she's looking for a visa and will bring the child later when she's settled - with somebody else.

Next!

... in response to Re: Re: Good news....there's a ton of si..., posted by Alfred on Mar 11, 2003

Your comments seem a little negative. You may be totally correct, but it just seems like a lot to assume considering how little any of us know about Chuck's situation. Yes there are a lot of dishonest and unethical things that can happen in this process, but it also seems a little unfair to condemn somone so strongly without any facts.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Good news....there's a ton o..., posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

Negative? Maybe.  I'm more than willing to consider a woman with a child.  However, it's a big negative to me if she does not want to keep the child with her - RW or otherwise. Just my values.

I realize that moving to a new country is a big risk, but I have to wonder how commited she is if she doesn't want to bring her child with her.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Good news....there's a t..., posted by Alfred on Mar 11, 2003

I really do agree with you 100% on all of the points you made. I would also have a problem with a woman who wished to abandon her small children with other relatives.

I just think its a little early to be making predictions about the success or failure of Chuck's relationship. We don't know the age of the children or any of the circumstances. All I am saying is that it was a strong opinion to have about something we know so little about.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good news....there's..., posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

You are right: the ages might make a difference. I suppose that it might be acceptable for a child in the upper teens that has built or is building an independent life of their own to want to stay behind. In addition, an involved father could cause problems with taking the kids abroad.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

It sure sounds like a setup to me.

Are there no normal women you could write to?

It strikes me as odd that you say "involved with"
rather than "corresponding with" when such obvious
obstacles to happiness exist.

Pardon me for asking, but how much money have
you sent her so far?

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

Chuckster,

One of the big mistakes that Western men make in pursuing FSUW is to rationalize away obvious red flags as somehow being attributable to "cultural differences." You have got to always apply common sense to these relationships.

FYI, there are *no* cultural differences between women anywhere on Earth when it comes to their children. Only the vilest of women have no love for their children. And if a woman loves her children she would NEVER leave them behind.

So you have a serious problem on your hand.

Also, any woman in Ukraine *can* bring her children with her. It is a matter of whether she *wants* to. Wants to and will not leave without them = normal. Doesn't want to or "can't" = abnormal. Abnormal = punt.

Good luck.

WmGOpuntemearlyandoftenforeignanddomestic

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

Agree w/posters below.
Should be a MAJOR concern.
Could be..   ULTRA problems.
Without details and particulars, no-one on the board could make a call.
How many visits? How long the friendship? Did you meet w/the kids extensively? etc..........

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

My girlfriend doesn't have children, but I have hung around Russians and Ukrainians on a regular basis for six years. Based upon what I know about how seriously the typical woman there views motherhood, I would think the typical mother would rather die than leave a child. Family is everything for them, and there is no one closer to you than your own child. If a woman would consider leaving her child behind, you have to really wonder about her, IMHO.

... in response to UW's who leave children at home..., posted by chuck12 on Mar 10, 2003

If I do talk about people in general,  no matter the country
or the origin.
That they are very close to their father is normal,
the old man is only there for the good time.
The grand parent are there, everywhere, to spoil the kids.
The mother are often taken for granted by the kids in your situation,
so how will they react when she is not there anymore,
this is in your favor.
So the odds are only two to one against you,
after two months here, she will be ready to go back
or you will be working on the papers to bring them here.
Perhaps, I do have it all wrong, but it is from the bottom of
my heart.