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The Primary Childrens Hospital in Salt Lake is one of the top 10 childrens facilities in the entire country, they are extremely good.  The surgeon is excellent and came highly recommended by many.  His surgery didn't even get started until 4:45pm this afternoon (2/27).  The surgery went very well, no complications and minimal loss of blood.  He also tolerated the anesthesia very well.  They took out the tumor completely, between the ribs on his side, so no having to break or cut any ribs etc, for which I am grateful.  The tumor was the size of a small peach!  How anyone ever missed it (the docs in her country, her Kiev exam and even our pediatricians x-ray) is beyond me.  I guess it was in a rather difficult place to see.  But the surgeon said that it did have some nerves coming from his back into it, and this supports his theory that it might be what is called a ganglio blastoma.  These are often mature, non-malignant tumors but can certainly sometimes be malignant.  He said it looked quite mature, meaning he felt it had been there and growing for quite some time.  So if it were malignant, it seems to me it would have metastisized a long time ago and killed him, but it hasn't.  Anyway, he said that they will take it to pathology where they will slice it up into about 100 pieces and check every one to make sure there are no cancer cells in any of it, but the results of that may not even be back until first of next week!  But he did sent it down to the lab to have them cut and look at least at one section to see if they could find anything so we wouldn't have to wait through the whole weekend wondering. The section was clear of any cancer.  He said that was very promising but that we still need to have the FULL pathology done to be sure.  When talking later to the anesthesiologist, he said that in tumors, if there are cancer cells, they are usually fairly evenly spread around so to have this first section clear is a very good sign.  He said that when the lab does this, they rarely change their diagnosis.  So that is VERY good news.  They also did confirm that it looks like a very "mature" tumor (has been there for quite a while), again confirming what the surgeon had thought it might be.  So really, things could not have gone better today really.  But until we get the final pathology report, we won't be positive, but we are hopeful.  If it is clear, there is no worry that this growth will come back or anything.. So we will continue to have faith and hope for the best.  We will know soon.

Alyona has been incredibly strong through all of this.  She is sleeping overnight in his room and will be for the next four days or so until he is released.  They have chairs there that fold out into beds for this purpose.

Will continue to update..  Thanx again for all the support.

Oscar

With a peach sized tumor by his lung he must have had some breathing problems.  It seems like when the doctor puts a stethoscope to your kids chest or back he would have heard something was wrong.  Seems like it would have been painful too.

The docs aren't sure if the tumor and the bronchitis he has gotten for the last few years are related, but I KNOW they are!  Man, you can't have a lung that small with a peach size tumor and not have irritation, infection and all kinds of things along with it in my opinion, but I'm not a medical doc so..

No, you couldn't hear anything with a stethoscope and with all the people looking at his xrays, only one doc even picked it up!  It was in a rather difficult to see spot somehow, I don't know..  No, there was no pain associated with it.

He's recuperating well, walked 4 times yesterday already.
Just hoping for a clean slate on the rest of the pathology..
May not know till next week.

Glad to hear that your son's surgery went so well . I hope he has a speedy recovery .

Best Wishes for you and your family

Don

In case you wondered, I am a Registered Nurse.

That is great news!! In the service it was my job to prepare this tissue to be read by the pathologist. That does take 3 or 4 days and so the timing seems about right.

Congradulations to you and your family with this successful operation. Children usually recover fairly fast from this and I would expect that your son will be no exception.

Best wishes to you and yours.

Randy

Yet another reason for people to want to leave Ukraine.

http://de.geocities.com/ecology_lab_kiev/Chernobyl.html

But even the "pristine" lakes and streams of my home state, Maine, are polluted with mercury, and people there are advised to eat just a few wild-caught fish per month there, maximum. It's got to be worse in most other states. The whole world has been our toilet for so long, it's a wonder things aren't worse. Have a nice day!

I personally know three people who have had brain cancer here in the U.S. I thought brain cancer was supposed to be rare. They all used cell phones. Is there a link? The cell companies of course say it's impossible, but a recent study produced evidence that changes in the brain may occur due to its use. Who knows? I suppose in time, we will know more about these things. But anyway, it seems to me that for those who are seeking a FSU bride, health is another serious factor to consider.

I don't know why, but writting  this, I kept thinking about an
old movie call "On The Beach"  Fred Astaire played in it,
interpreting the role of a nuclear scientist, in the middle of the
movie, he did give a talk that did change my life and mostly
my views about the world.

How do I know? I have friends (Americans) that work on the Chernobyl clean-up and they are nuclear engineers. The often have occasion to return to the US and have whole-body count measurements taken. Cesium-136 is at detectable levels after only a week or two of residence in Ukraine. Still within US EPA allowable guidelines mind you, but detectable nonetheless.

I doubt there is any other country in the world that this is true.

FWIW

- Dan

For example, would an individual's 'count' in this substance be reduced after leaving the evironment in question, or would residual elements/levels 'build' upon previous exposure?

Scary stuff there, Dan.

Radiation is pretty scary stuff . You can't see it , smell it , feel it , or sense it ; but it's still there hammering away at your body . A relentless and silent killer . The effects of the Chernobyl disaster were , and still are , global in scale . We are still dealing with the aftereffects of that mess ; and we will still be dealing with it years from now .

You ask : How long would Cesium 136 or Cesium 137 remain in their bodies ? To determine this ( effective half-life ) , divide the product of the radiological half-life and biological half-life by the sum of the radiological half-life and the biological half-life :

Effective Half-Life = ( Radiological Half-Life X Biological Half-life ) / ( Radiological Half-life + Biological Half-Life ) .

For Cs-136 : Radiological Half-Life = approx 13 days
            Biological Half-Life = approx 11 days

( 13 X 11 ) / ( 13 + 11 ) = ( 143 ) / ( 24 ) = 5.96 days or roughly 6 days

For Cs-137: Radiologica Half-Life = approx 30 years
           Biological Half-Life = approx 70 days

Must first convert 30 years to days : 30 years X 365 days/year = 10950 days

( 10950 X 70 ) / ( 10950 + 70 ) = ( 766500 ) / ( 11020 ) = 69.56 days or roughly 70 days

You could go to any big hospital and ask this question of any doctor who administers radiopharmeceuticals . They do these kinds of calculations every day . Their numbers would be close to these here . They use a more involved formula which factors in tissue density , organ efficiencies , metabolic rates , carry the calculations out to 10 decimal places , ....blah blah blah blah....and the calculation is a page long , and costs plenty . I'm just giving you the short version .  

The amount of harm such an exposure would do would depend primarily upon the amount of the radioactive material they inhaled or ingested ; and a few other factors as well . See my posted reply to BURKE89 below for further info on that .

You said , "....I wonder if we'll set off the new radiation detectors being used in US airports..."

I doubt it .

I have not yet seen what they'll be using at the airports for radiation detection instruments yet ; so some of this is admitedly partially speculation on my part . I am basing that statement on the news story posted by Cold Warrior above ( http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/86162.html ) .

The news article describes the detectors as , "...small , pager-like detectors..." ; and gives a few other functional descriptions : ".....If a source of radiation passes close by or within a certain distance , the pager will begin beeping or alerting , and you can look down at the pager and see the amount of radiation that the pager is picking up..." ; and : "....Government auditors warned lawmakers in October that the pager's range is too limited to be effective...."

From those descriptions ( and this is all I have to go on here ) it sounds like the devices being described are EPDs ( Electronic Pocket Dosimeters ) ; which may have some additional built-in rate meter functions . My guess is that they are probably small ion chamber or GM tube type detectors . Good , reliable , rugged , can take a fair amount of use and abuse . And they don't require an extensive amount of training to use . Pretty simple instruments , probably not a bad choice for that particular
application ; although they certainly do have limitations .

It sounds like some of those limitations have been pointed out to the appropriate officials , though ; because the article goes on to say that , "....a few hundred of the inspectors have hand-held devices called 'isotope identifiers'...."  Anything which is capable of identifying specific radioisotopes and is hand-held is probably some type of scintillation detector . These are pretty sensitive instruments , capable of detecting and identifying lower levels of activity . Lots more sensitive and accurate than the pager type instruments described . They have limitations too ; but if the security monitoring program is set up properly and these instruments are combined with the pager type detectors ( and used within their limitations and for their intended design functions ) a security outfit would have most bases covered in detecting some type of nuclear threat . The pager types would be an 'early warning' of anything significant or of consequence ; the 'isotope identifiers' would pinpoint and identify the specific type of threat involved .

But , let's try this scenario : if you were to visit some of the Chernobyl - contaminated regions of , say , Ukraine or Belarus ; inhaled or ingested a small amount of radioactive material , and flew home . Unless the amount of material you inhaled or ingested was significant , those pager-type detectors probably wouldn't pick it up or alarm .  Some of the 'isotope-identifier' types of equipment probably would ; but I doubt they'd be called into use unless one of the pager types got an alarm . There are some types of detectors , proportional counters and other types of scintillation detectors which would pick something like that up ; but from what that article says nobody's using them ( not yet anyways ) . Those things look like the airport metal detectors ; you just walk right through .

It sounds like the airports will have the capabilities to detect and identify any radioactive materials that are of any consequence ; but I doubt you'll set off any alarms just from visiting Ukraine or Belarus .

I'm still rather -deeply- oblivious to the specifics you've mentioned; yet, thanks, regardless of the scenario presented.

There are, other 'oblivious folk,' in dealing with this one, who could benefit from your thoughts & knowledge, upon this subject. -Hand held out- me me...

Thanks again,

Vaughn

I will try to explain my posting a little more clearly : When a person inhales or ingests some radioactive materials , that material deposited in the body will pump out energy into the surrounding tissue . This is what causes the biological damage . How much damage this inhaled or ingested material does to your body depends on several factors :

1. The amount of radioactive material deposited

2. The type and energy of the radiations emitted by the material

3. The length of time this material remains in the body

The length of time that this material remains in the body is called the effective half-life .

When this radioactive material is inhaled or ingested , the body will try to remove or eliminate the foreign material . This is accomplished through natural biological processes , such as sweating , urination , excretion , etc , etc . A large percentage of the radionuclides which have entered the body will be eliminated in this manner in the first few days . However , a certain portion will be absorbed by various body organs depending on the chemical nature of the material . Iodines will tend to concentrate in the thyroid ; while calcium and chemically similar elements ( strontium , barium , radium , etc ) will concentrate in bone materials .

If the type of radionuclide is known ( Cesium 136 and Cesium 137 were mentioned ) , you can perform a rough calculation to determine how long it would take an average person's body to remove or eliminate the radioactive material . That was the rough calculation I posted .

So , to clarify my previous post : If a person inhaled a small amount of Cesium 136 , their body would remove or eliminate it in roughly 6 days . If a person inhaled a small amount of Cesium 137 , it would be gone from their body in roughly 70 days .

This scenario applys to cases like those mentioned in Dan's post - where an individual enters a contaminated area , inhales or ingests some radioactive material , and exits the contaminated area . After exiting the contaminated area for a 'clean' environment , the individual's body has the opportunity to remove and eliminate the contaminants through natural biological processes . I would venture to guess that the types of exposures experienced by Dan's engineer friends were under controlled conditions and that the participants were adequately monitored . In those situations , it is normal operating procedure that steps are taken to minimize exposures . The risks from such an exposure in that scenario are minimal , unless the amount of material initially absorbed was substantial .

Unfortunately , the people actually living in a contaminated area such as a Chernobyl do not have the luxury of going to a clean environment to allow their bodies time to remove the contaminants and recover . As their bodies are eliminating and removing the ingested materials , more contaminants are also entering the body from the contaminated environment . In their case , the effects become cumulative . Also , most of their exposures are uncontrolled and unmonitored .

The 'Whole Body Counting' that Dan mentioned is a widely accepted method for measuring the amount of radioactive material that a person has inhaled or ingested . Most Whole Body Counters use what is called a scintillation detector . The detector is a crystal made of a material which will emit light when exposed to gamma radiation . The Whole Body Counting process goes like this : A detector is placed close to the patient's body . When radioactive material inside the body emits a gamma ray , it strikes the crystal . The crystal emits a  brief ray of light . The equipment counts the number of light rays emitted by the detector crystal and sends the info to a computer assisted data processor . This interprets the data and tells the Whole Body Counter operator how much radioactive material the patient has inhaled or ingested . The operator can then calculate how much dose the patient will receive and how long the different isotopes will remain in the patient's body . A Whole Body Count might take all of 5 minutes .

I don't know if I'm telling you what you wanted to know or just confusing the he11 out of you here , but if you have more questions or specific questions I'll try my best to answer them .

Once again , my apologies for the long reply .

Yes, it *is* scary stuff - particularly when you consider how critical some of the affected waterways are to commerce, agriculture and foodstuffs in Ukraine. I understand there is some concern every time the riverbed of the Dnieper is significantly disturbed (whether by natural or man-made acts) for fear that some of the residue that has settled will be again stirred-up and find its way into the foodchain.

It's a good idea to be aware - though not paranoid - about some of these issues in Ukraine.

Another example - equally as unsettling - is the sheer amount of raw pollutants some Ukrainian cities pump into the environment. I specifically recall spending a week in Mariupol (SE Ukraine - on the Sea of Asov) during the summer of 1999. Pollution was so thick I could not make out the exterior walls of the factory that was less than a half-mile from me. The only visible outline of the buildings were the tip-top of the stacks billowing pollution. This was from a steel factory. I later learned that National Geographic had, at one time, ranked Mariupol as the 2nd-most polluted city on the face of the planet and I believe it.

FWIW

- Dan

In all seriousness: tragic, at least, in the fact a 'people' have to comprehend their very existence -and subsistence- of their land & water supply. In essence - life.

I can't even fathom such matters, as an American.

Solutions, or thoughts?  

Thank you,

If only, for reality.

Vaughn

I remember the week I spent in DNP. It was so strange how excited people acted when they saw a fish in the Dnipro. They would act like it was a big deal, get all excited, and point it out as if no other river in the world has fish. And I would be thinking gosh, there are close to zero fish in the river, what's the big deal, don't they know what is normal. Maybe they were just excited that there was hope.

It is a strange and exciting place.

Perhaps the same can be said of Belarus since it took the brunt of the Chernobyl disaster. Got to hate it for all of them.

Congratulations on your wife expecting. I hope that all goes well.

Best regards!

WmGO

As for Ukraine, unfortunately it is not the only country,
affected by nuclear power plant.
In Québec, we do have one and it doesn't run, because
of the danger of living next to one.
In a town call Pickering, next to Toronto in the prov. of Ontario,
they came very close to a Chernobyl in spade.  Had to close down
four reactors,  the people running it were always high on hash.
They found the pipes to smoke it.
Now they do make electricity with coal, which is almost as bad
for the people living around these plants.
In Québec, my province,  electricity is made with water and they sell
the surplus to the Northern states in the east.
Large manufacturing companies want to come in everyday, but the
environmental laws make it very hard for them to come in and be comics
at the same time.
All this, to say that, they don't tell us the truth about nuclear plants,
but here we had so many debates about it and all is in the open,
fortunately.