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PART I – My Introduction to the Ukraine
My stay in Kiev was overall a very good experience, I got a chance to vacation with my future wife and see first hand what was to me a very different country.  Of the many memorable events, we took a boat trip on the Dnieper River not far from where the Battle of the Uman Pocket took place 66 years ago in World War II.   This was where Colonel-General Von Kleist’s Panzer Corps circumnavigated twenty five Soviet Divisions and forced them into a wall of German Infantry …  

The river today, peaceful and lazy despite being adjacent to a major city, with only a few small crafts, outside of our party boat.    It was early evening before sunset - the sun and humidity were mild, on board were younger couples drinking vodka and listening to low grade Russian alternative rock.   I found their demeanor refreshingly less angry and better behaved than their American counter parts.  

Later, some short visits to the Ukraine countryside were nothing short of spectacular, especially seeing the outdoor museum and meeting and talking to the local people – goats, warm winds over rolling green grass and lovely windmills and churches.   We explored and hiked through these hills, came across overgrown hedghogs, farm houses and cottages .. Hansel and Grettle settings in spring conditions.

Part II – The local Officials and procedures in Kiev
Back to the city - a very bad experience and I do council all .. the police - the officials, the jackboots that you see avoid period.   Don’t kid yourself, if they get a chance they will intimidate and threaten to arrest you, and as was done to my girl shove her around inside a rusty bus until you intervene - and it better be to throw money at them.  They made some crazy claim that we didn’t pay the right amount to board the bus.    Kiev is really poor – a society within a dead economy and getting worse and things get desperate.   Although I get the impression the more serious crimes are pretty rare, experiences such as this are not easy for first timers who have a much higher degree of confidence in official members.    After some adjustments and convincing my girl that a taxi fare was really quite reasonable, we were able to move around the city with some peace of mind.

My trip was about two years ago and at that time the requirement to have my passport stamped/validated was still a mandate.  Getting this done was nothing short of jumping through fire loops.   Visits to federal buildings, moving around between notorization services, banks waiting in lines etc. all within the Ukrainian bureaucracy.     And much of the paperwork could only have been done by my girl who was incidentally, not happy to be involuntarily chosen to assist.  All in all it took a full day and a half.    I understand that the stamp is no longer required, but have been told that some of the officials still haven’t quite “understood” the new procedures yet.    

Part III – The Girls
As for the girls in Kiev, they are extremely beautiful and in many cases simply stunning – you really have to see this to appreciate it.  It’s the quantity too that is really astounding, the numbers throughout the bus stops, walkways and shops.    And many of the gals will drop whatever they are doing to spend time with you.    In the “college” sections of the city I found the young people to be completely open to any anything American in general.    I had to continually remind myself that it’s the American Mystic and my American Money that beckons so much of this attention.  

I look back on this time in Kiev very fondly.   I left a silicon valley, pretty much at the height of the bubble, a madhouse internet technology arena where there seem to be nothing but phones, handhelds, pagers and projects.  In Kiev, I found, a simple people, practically no technologies,  and very very little materialism.   This experience, at the time, made for a perfect vacation for me.  

PART IV – The Visa Paperwork
After returning from Kiev the paperwork for my girl’s k-1 was efficiently pursued and completed ahead of schedule.    I was able to reduce the timeframes by being especially accurate and using fax and email transmissions whenever possible.   Six months later we were together in New York.   Once here though, I was slightly shocked and disappointed with my fiancés immediate slack pickup between her third and first world trade up.   We stayed in some fancy places in the Manhattan area -  of course spent time in Little Italy - made our way up to Boston for the next few days in a pleasant mix of warm rain, sun, and scenery.   Finally returning home to my small house on the west coast proved interesting.

PART V – Home
Once back I made all but 4 of the meals and not entirely by my choice.  We ate all kinds of things that she had never even imagined, tried a lot of new recipes topped of with discussions of word translations made for the start of some good evenings.   And many trips around the Northern California areas re-introduced me to some gorgeous scenery in my home area.   As for most of us, marriage is a big decision and during the visa stay I was looking at some things within the relationship pretty closely, but still optimisticly  to “happily ever after”.    Despite all of the great experiences things were beginning to move steadily in the wrong direction - we wade in deeper ..

Part VI – Differences
Early on there were situations such as one at dinner out one evening, we met another girl from Russia who was our waiter.   They spoke - all in English, when my girl was asked how she arrived here in the US she responded; “I decided to come here to visit and travel”.    I wondered if she placed a higher priority in impressing the waitress in the restaurant than her fiancé.  

My girlfriend learned quickly to complain about any food less than SF/NY four star quality.   At a couple of social occasions out she drank way, way too much.    Around the house I was able to control this as I was of course, in charge of the money and the purchases.   But she did argue and disagree with me on this point.   I wondered what it would be like once she attained greater freedom of action on income and spending and this issue came up.  

Well into her stay, I made her an expresso which she could hardly believe, she just loved it.   All of my meal leftovers and more, she ate the following day.   She gained no less than 15 pounds in the first 3 months and denied any knowledge of it.   And for some reason she seemed to be permanently dressed in one of my old teeshirts, the one with stains and paint crusted on it.   I asked her why she didn’t wear some of her nice cloths, some really kool stuff and her response was short and uninformative.    

And our relationship was changing too.   Despite many upper class vacation like conditions, it was becoming increasingly difficult to avoid confrontation with her.   This made me wonder if her relationships with those around her back home were by nature contentious.    She avoided just about any kind of work, including taking any part time job where she could have earned some pretty good money and would have had the opportunity to meet other people,  I took every opportunity to encourage this.   Finally she managed to befriend the only neighbor that I had a poor relationship with, and did this despite my requests to her to please refrain from doing so.   I found a mysterious overconfidence with many of these rude actions of hers.

Part VII - The Decision
But for me the number one crutch was really starting to become evident.   We all speak of the lost trust of the American women and these things, many of them I do agree with particularly in the big city areas of the US.   But it is hard to understand the huge communication and cultural difference between American and Slavic women, until you experience it - man it is vast.   Despite the fact that my girl’s English was quite good – the words and meanings simply didn’t and don’t crossover accurately to English.  And the emotional contact, the emotional communication that I was accustomed too with American women was simply not there – and I know that must have been the case for her too.  These feelings - and trust me, this part of having a gorgeous women right there in my arms left me feeling very very empty.   I became convinced that with the ending date of the K-1 closing in, hard decisions would soon need to be finalized and gently conveyed.

A short while later, my decision against marriage was disclosed and discussed openly with her.  From that point on ...  a heavy and difficult feeling permeated every minute between us, and even in those times we were apart.   It was compounded by actions of hers to amend or ascend some of her actions and even her own personality.   This made me feel terrible.

So there you may find yourself.  In a position where three months tells you something you may not have wanted to consider.   And you’re staring at the possibility of a difficult and long drive to the airport - All this after a long, hard and costly effort of over a year … ends where it all started.  

It was a long ride on that return trip from the airport, out of SFO, on the way home, in the rain, single again, and back to my small home in the East Bay.  

I hope that my experience helps, I wish the best for all of you in your searches and yes God bless and good luck to all of you..  

I am in the process of writing up some conclusions and recommendations for any of you who may be interested, just let me know.    

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Hi Guys,  I'm new to this board but not the RW experience.

First I want to say that I am sorry to hear about your experiences but please do not be too discouraged.

Yes, you are right about the corruption among the officials there but I have found being cooperative with them, and a few bucks, clears up any misunderstandings very quickly but to avoid them is the best which is why I only use a private driver and never public transportation.  For $50/day I have a car and driver available to me for 24 hours.

Regarding your girl, it sounds to me that maybe you rushed the process a bit.  Please do not be offended if I am making an incorrect assumption, I am only going on what you have described above and from what I can tell, you found this woman and began correspondence and then met her in Kyiv once before she came over on the K-1.  Is that right?

Although more expensive I think several trips are necessary.  The first girl I went over to see (I always meet them in Kyiv for my convenience) was young and gorgeous but was obviously not into me but much more interested in money and U.S. citizenship.  I had a lot of fun with her but since she was there under false pretenses so I figured she was ready to play the game and got her just deserts when I left Kyiv and thanked her for her time.  She looked surprised but I asked her if she really had intentions of marrying me at which she smiled and said "maybe".  Bye Bye!  BTW if you ever run into Natalia Ryabova born 5/14/84 from Donetsk she is gorgeous but be careful.

I got back on the horse and started writing to may ladies and over about 3 months narrowed it down to my sweet Anna.  Anna and I met in Kyiv as usual and spent 8 perfect days together in December 2002.  Her sincerity is very evident and she is very affectionate towards me.  She is everything that I think we are all looking for in a woman from FSU.  I will be leaving to spend another 8 days in Kyiv with her over Valentine's Day.  She keeps asking me when I will come to meet her family and on this trip I will give her my agenda for my trip to spend a week with her and meet her family and friends in Krivoy Rog.  If everything still seems to be just as good as what I feel now I will ask her father for his blessings.

Anna knows that I have been divorced and have a 5 year old son.  She also knows that I initiated the divorce because my ex drank and smoked during my son's pregnancy and therefore he was born 9 weeks early with CP.  She understands that I am serious in my intentions but will not be taken advantage of and will dismiss those that are not honest.

I'm sorry for the long message but I think that being less available and being extra careful you can weed out the one's that are not sincere and you also send a strong message to the sincere one's who will stick around that you are keen to the games of the dishonest and they will go to easier prey.

In any case I hope that you find the girl of your dreams as we all do.

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Sorry to hear about that. But I guess it COULD have been worse if you HAD married contrary to the red flags. WISE WISE choice on your part. Thanks for sharing.

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Indeed you were smart enough to get out without totally losing your shirt! What happened to you is something that is more the norm then not. A few of us have been lucky, either by being very wise in our search, or just being down right lucky!

Your lady acted the way she did in the resteraunt because she was ashaimed to be thought of as a mail order bride. I was lucky to find a lady that had a taist of the outside world, and she was well educated, but we too have problems from time to time do to the way we see life and how it should be viewed. These women are raised from birth to grab what you can from life because it could all be gone tomorrow. The bad thing to this is it means everyone else comes secound except for blood relation. Sure there are some women that are everything you dreamed of but your chances of finding one that is easy to get along with forever is less then most people tend to think.

You can meet a girl, meet her family, and spend much time with her and that will only give you a small amount of info because you are on her turf dealing with people wanting to impress you, and wanting you take the girl and give her a better life.

You did the best thing and that was to get her here and wait and judge with an open mind. It doesn't take long for the real girl to come out and for the acting to end.

It will not surprise me that I'm attacted for saying RW typically will involve you in a big production to win their way here, but I see it very often and enough to think this is a fact. Sure bringing one here for a test drive sounds bad but it is the only way to be safe. Like some guys mentioned, when you send them back send them back better then they left. It's not cheap but you can't put a price on finding the right lady.

Mike

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Thanks for sharing your chunk of reality. Please post your conclusions and recommendations. Good luck.

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Thanks for sharing your story.  Every RW who contributes here or on other sites says there is no difference between RW and others, (ie..."Russian Soul")and everyone is different.  What is unique, is the numbers of women available for anyone willing to take a chance, and it takes a good deal of luck to succeed.  When you look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be, and the heart says yes and the head says no, and the right head wins out, you have thought rationally.

Obviously you are not "needy" as some men are.  Congrats on the right decision!

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Somehow,  you did get off lucky, by finding out early on, how she really was.
Think about what could have happen.
You are no worse than before, perhaps much better, having learn from that experience
The next time, my be the right time.....right....

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Thanks for having the bravery to share your story.  These things are very tough, but you made the right decision to not go the next step.  My advice. . . . get right back on the internet and start looking at some new ladies.  That will ease the pain much quicker than a prolonged mulling over of your past situation.

JR

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

just think if you would have done the spousal visa, she wouldnt be going home, and you would have one big mess on your hands. good story though, people change and you dont really know the person until you live with them.

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

I sympathize. You must feel very bad, so much emotion, time and money invested.  Even so you are lucky.  You discovered the mismatch before it was too late and you were in a bad marriage.  The K1 process worked for you.

Remember you could have had a similar experience with an AW or a woman from anywhere.  Possibly one even more expensive and emotionally devastating.  The problem was not because your lady friend was from the FSU.

Even though from your description she did not turn out to be the woman of your dreams, you did care for her.  A clean break may be the best course, you be the judge. She must be enduring a terrible feeling of rejection and embarassment.  She left her country, job, family, friends to get married and now she returns essentially a failure. You may want to consider trying to ease her pain of rejection.  After all you did care enough for her to begin the process. I do not recommend financial relief ar gifts but perhaps a friendly note or two and best wishes for her future happiness.

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

After all that time and effort, it must have been terribly disappointing.
It would be interesting as Ken asks, to know more about your selection process.. Did you meet and spend significant time with her family?  Did you have any warning signs before bringing her here??

... in response to An experience from start to end, posted by openpath1 on Feb 4, 2003

Openpath,
Thank you for sharing your story here.  From what you wrote, it does sound as if you made a solid decsion to not proceed into a marriage with her.  It also appears that you made a bad choice in your selection process.  How did you come to choose her?  How much did you know her before bringing her here?  Did you use an agency?  Which one?  What are your ages?  Will you look for another woman in the FSU?  If so, how will you do things differently?
KenC

... in response to comments & questions, posted by KenC on Feb 4, 2003

asd

... in response to I second that n/t, posted by thesearch on Feb 4, 2003

Ken, summed it up perfectly.

... in response to Re: I third that, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 4, 2003

sdf

... in response to Changed my mind -- I fourth that n/t, posted by thesearch on Feb 5, 2003

LOL