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Late last year I met a RM in at Earl’s Court in London. He came over from Moscow for an exhibition and was selling matroshka dolls and other wooden and stone pieces. I spoke briefly with him but was surprised with the negative image he had of Western men. He thought that AM were puzzies for helping around the house, chores like cleaning, cooking, taking care of babies etc. I told him I was into MOB for RW. His advice was – be careful. RW are very strong women, they only pretend to be weak so as not to usurp the men, however if they sense any weakness in you they’ll kick your azz.

... in response to An RM's perception of AM, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 22, 2003


I think the Russian Man you met may have confused his  consonants... :-)

My wife is not weak. She is meek.

But that word, meek, has many meanings, so I want to be specific.

(After all, Jesus Christ and Moses were both described as meek... )

I heard "meek" defined once as "Power under control."

This describes my wife. It is not that she HAS to be submissive, it is that she chooses to be. We are talking about a woman who has an advanced degree, who lived under conditions that would break most Americans, and who -- on more than one occasion -- fought off muggers and would-be rapists. (She tells me that Kherson is one of the most dangerous cities in Ukraine...)

Also, a little tidbit I discovered, she can field-dress and reassmble an AK-47 in under 20 seconds! (Aren't Soviet schools wonderful? They teach the classics! )

She is NOT weak.

But she likes the fact that I am the head of the household, and I that assume these responsibilities. (Most of the time :-) Let's face it, she won’t ALWAYS like it.)

She doesn't expect me to do household chores. (She was surprised once when I went to refill my coffee. She told me a story of one time when she was married before. She made some stew and put it in the refrigerator for her husband, and then went to visit her father -- who lived five minutes away. She came home three hours later to find her husband was angry with her. "I was starving!" he told her. "But you had stew in the refrigerator!" she told him. "And no one to heat it up!" was his reply.)

She does expect me to provide, and take care of the "head of the house" duties. Mainly, that has meant being arbiter in the children's disputes.

There are other things she expects, but these are the kind of things that I hardly consider a duty :-)

But I CERTAINLY wouldn't say that she is weak. And, I also would not say that she even pretends to be weak.

She is a strong woman, who has chosen to be submissive. There is a world of difference between that and being weak...

FWIW

... in response to RW's are weak?, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 22, 2003

I have hear other RW use weak to describe themselves. maybe it is a literal translation from the Russian.I don't know. i think meek is the more appropiate term. You are correct about meek being "power under control". THe word meek actully evolved from a Latin term used to describe a tame horse - very powerful but under control.
Blessed are the meek

What's this about kherson being a dangerous place? I've browsed a number of agencies there and no mention was made of this.

I see you have some firepower on your hands. LOL. How fast is she blindfolded on the Ak 47?

... in response to Weak and meek, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 22, 2003

As for Kherson's reputation, I have no idea... I never read that anywhere, either, but Victoria has told me a few times.

How about that? You think the marriage agencies would keep something like that from us?

Nah...

I have no idea how fast she can do the AK 47 blindfolded. We're inAmerica now. I only have M16s here ;-)

It was funny when she told me that. She was telling me about how she was going to help my daughter in school (she's in 3rd grade.)

I told Victoria: "I don't know... this subject is really hard for her, and she gets discouraged."

And she says: "It doesn't matter. It is like when I was in school. I had a very difficult time taking apart the gun..." and then she relates this story. All the while I am looking at her long painted fingernails and I'm thinking: "She field-dressed an AK-47 in HOW long?!?"

BTW, the soviets also taught her how to throw a hand grenade.

So, in the even that our church is not ATF approved, I guess we're set...

... in response to Re: Weak and meek, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 23, 2003

I've recieved some odd responses on our old "2nd." My cousin's "Russian friends" in Chicago (decent, family oriented folk), have the wildest views on this subject.

Come to think about it,I'll start a new thread - sans grenades.

You Texans & your arsenal...

... in response to ATF approved -places of worship... LOL, posted by BURKE89 on Jan 23, 2003

Probably everyone has forgotten that incident.

But it was viewed VERY differently here in Texas.

Just a bunch of Federal Agency types trying to justify their existence.

Koresh was in town every week. The Sheriff of Waco told the FBI that there was no need to storm the compound, he could simple call him and tell him to come in for a meeting, and he would.

But they had to rush the compound in their "own peculiar idiom" as John Cleese says in The Holy Grail.

There... how's that for obscure references :-)

DM would be pround :-)

... in response to Yeah. And don't forget compounds...., posted by MarkInTx on Jan 23, 2003

I'm on your side, mate.

Certainly, not the "Feds" and their tanks/bombs or other muderous devices, being used upon Christians.

I've relayed Waco & Ruby Ridge info. to a great many Russians, Texan.

O.C. = Texas

... at least, that's what the youngsters south of Del Rio say...

... in response to Whoah...., posted by BURKE89 on Jan 24, 2003

"O.C. = Texas "

Stumped me.

Damn, I hate it when that happens!

... in response to OK... I admit, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 24, 2003

He's saying Orange County (in California) = Texas.  Orange County is pretty conservative but not what it used to be.

... in response to Re: OK... I admit, posted by BubbaGump on Jan 25, 2003

I had assumed O.C. was Ontario, Canada.

He referred to the youngsters south of Del Rio - they be Mexicanos.

Que pasa?

... in response to I'm still a little FOGged..., posted by Griffin on Jan 25, 2003

Bubba is correct. I have relatives in a small town south of Del Rio. They love visiting this side of the family in O.C. or San Diego. Particularly the former, hence my semi-understandable correlation.

They're not "Mexicanos," however.

... in response to Here is a wiper for ya..., posted by BURKE89 on Jan 26, 2003

John Kenneth Galbraith wrote that, "We all view the world as coterminous with our own horizons."  A fact that is demonstrated repeatedly (and often forcefully) each day on this board.

My contribution was to assume that you meant Del Rio, Texas.  I see now that there is a Del Rio, California.

Do you also have a Cut-N-Shoot?  :-)

... in response to You know that I once was blind....., posted by Griffin on Jan 26, 2003

Was it the reading of J.K Galbraith that created this previous condition?

I agree with the sentiment of his quote, in relation to the board, however. Thank you, I simply never had a great fondness for his ilk.

No, it is Del Rio, Texas.

Now, on this Cut-N-Shoot contraption... I'm truly baffled here. Is this some utilitarian tool for the "masses," that I musn't be without?

Please do advise.

... in response to I'm sorry to hear that., posted by BURKE89 on Jan 27, 2003

are the rusting assets of a now defunct megawatt radio station that used to advertise the sale of baptismal units with "genuine walk-on water" and the somewhat sovereign state of Mexico.

If the "BURKE" of your persona is a reference to Edmund, then I understand your fondness for aesthetic obscurity.

Are you a Royalist as well?  :-)

... in response to Immediately south of Del Rio, Texas........, posted by Griffin on Jan 27, 2003

Yes, you've unmasked me, as your fellow Texan did to another recent charlatan. My "classical liberal" infiltration of P-L has been thwarted, dead in its tracks. Urgh...

Now, with regard to "aesthetic obscurity" & "Royalist" notions:

Old "Eddie's" thoughts, though aesthetically pleasing, really aren't that obscure at all. For they live, in most civilized peoples hearts. They just need a little prodding sometimes, 'tis all.

Now, this Royalist bees wax is rather disconcerting.

My only defense would come fro... an explanation which comes straight out of the: Winona Ryder Cookbook of Plausible Explanations that Somehow Fail to Convince.

Cheers,

Evil O.C. lad

Btw, in an effort to assume relevance to P-L; how is the Russian minority treated in Uzbekistan? I've recently acquired a very interesting book on the former Central-Asian Republics. I'll pop the info, if you would like.    

... in response to Rats... foiled again!, posted by BURKE89 on Jan 27, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin]

I would like to know more about the book.

My experience in Uzbekistan has been limited to Tashkent.  I am happy to relate my impressions but I haven't yet spent enough time over there to feel like I know the land or it's people.

The social divisions seem to me to be more along lines of economic class than of race or ethnicity.  My wife's sister is engaged to a Korean executive of an auto manufacturing plant in Tashkent.  The driver I hired was a muslim medical student.  My Russian-born wife is Orthodox Catholic so there were two opportunities for conflict to arise.  I never saw it.  Both treated each other as equals and with respect.  The driver showed a great deal of deference toward me, however, and would never really leave the role of "servant".  He had many questions about America, all concerning material issues.  ("How much would this car cost in America?"  "Is it true that everyone has big home in America?"  "You have to pay big money to go to University in America?")  Turned out that his dream is to immigrate to Florida where he hopes to practice medicine.

While the Russians are a very small minority, I think around 20% but don't quote me, I don't remember dealing with a single bureaucrat who wasn't Russian.  Come to think of it their admins were Russian as well.  Young, attractive, very well-dressed, distractingly well-dressed,  Russian women.

We had planned a day trip to the mountains, so we set out early one morning, just before dawn.  We were the only car on a four-lane boulevard and the street sweepers were out - a gang of maybe 10 or 12 muslim women with what looked like homemade brooms, frantically sweeping the dust off the street.  There is a park-like area in the center of town, I think it's called Broadway but don't hold me to that either (early onset of oldtimer's disease).  There, muslim sidewalk venders sell crafts (puppets, carved objects, etc.)

All this is a very long-winded way of saying that it's not really a question of how the Russian minority is treated, it's more a question of how the Russians treat the majority.

I did see one social interchange where a Russian lost.  A group of us were waiting for a money exchange window to open.  Olga and I were there an hour early and there were probably a dozen people ahead of us.  Eastern Europe has a different queing custom than we do.  You walk up, take an imaginary number, and then it's OK to leave without losing your place in line.  There's actually no line, everyone just stands around but everyone seems to remember who is next.  An affluent looking Russian man who was ahead of us left for about 15 minutes and then came back.  While he was gone an old muslim woman in tattered clothes came up.  30 minutes later the window opened and all was well until the Russian man stepped up to the window.  Then all hell broke loose!  The woman began chiding him and shaking her finger in his face and the man became red-faced and was yelling back at her.  He appealed to the crowd to support his position, but no one, not Russian, not muslim, and certainly not this stout-hearted American wanted to cross that angry old woman!

I suspect the class structure is a hold-over from when Uzbekistan was a part of the Soviet Union.  If there truly isn't racial or religious prejudice, then in another generation or two the scales will tip toward the majority.

By the way, I think Patrick may share your political convictions.  In any lengthy discourse I find myself being pushed to the far right (of the screen).  :-)

... in response to Sorry.  Didn't mean to out you., posted by Griffin on Jan 28, 2003

So, no affirmative action in Uzbekistan, yet?  *smile*

The book I was referring to is: JIHAD: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia, by Ahmed Rashid. It deals with all five "Stan's," and was, all in all, a good read. I have since learned that he had previously written another book on the same region, but with a focus on the various nationalist movements (I also picked up a grand Cultural Atlas of the FSU, as well).

If you've a penchant for reading, like I do, I might have a nice source for you. Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller (edwardrhamilton.com). I usually pick up 20+ books a quarter, at unbeatable prices. They've a set shipping rate of $3.50, whether you purchase 1 or 100 books. For example, I received 18 books on my last order for a whopping $ 94.00, including shipping. Retail value was something like $500.00.

I order through their catalog that, they send monthly. It usually has approx. 3,000 new books in it. By new, I mean closeouts, overstocks, as well as new releases. I've used them for years and have had great luck.

They do have some inherent drawbacks, however. You have to send a check/MO (not if you order over the web, but the shipping rates are considerably higher), shipping usually is a tad slow (approx. 2-3 weeks), and not all of the titles ordered are in stock. Yet, for my "bulk" purposes, they work out much better than Yahoo or Ebay's book site.

Thanks, for the info. on the "Russian minority." Hopefully things change too quickly. You know, I'm not too keen on Revolutions...

... in response to Continuing in the right direction...., posted by BURKE89 on Jan 29, 2003

Have some more cake.   :-)

Thanks for the bookseller tip.  I'll check it out.

... in response to RW's are weak?, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 22, 2003

Mark, I've some of the same experiences, but not all of them. My wife expects me to be a gentlemen, to treat her with courtesy and help her in everything, but she is in fact a very strong woman. She has learned how to take care of herself and to manage to survive in a hard and merciless society. Security is important for her, and she will do everything for me. She appreciate it  very much that I'm the one who cook dinner every day because I'm first at home. She is also expecting that we do the housework together. We are both working very hard and the time we have together is important for both of us. So we help each other with the all kind of things that need to be done to get some time together every day and evening and night. She indeed wants a strong man. That is important for her, I'm the man and she is the woman. That is how it is and should be. However, it doesn't mean that she is weak, not at all. Sometimes she hides it a little, but I know she is strong. Some time after she had come to me, she confessed that her friends have told to hide that she is strong, to pretend that she is more dependent and weaker than she really is. I think that Russian man in some way was right.

Haroshij

... in response to RW's are weak?, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 22, 2003

Mark,
Re-read Coldwarrior's post.  He said the RM said they (RW) pretend to be weak but are really strong.
KenC

... in response to he didn't say they were weak, posted by KenC on Jan 22, 2003

But, Ken... does Lena pretend to be weak?

I mean even when she's telling you to carry the vacuum cleaner upstairs... is she being weak about it? ;-)

My opinion is that an RW is about as weak as a Schutzhund  III German Shepherd...

... in response to Ahhh I see, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 23, 2003

...If the man is a puss, she'll seem much stronger. Besides, how strong does a woman need to be when she has such total control?

... in response to An RM's perception of AM, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 22, 2003

RW want a REAL man of moral and spiritual strength, not physical or macho.  They want a smart and wise man, not a good looking stupid one.  

Mine wants me to stay away from the inside duties but expects me to take care of all the bread winning and dragon slaying so to speak.  Yes, they are very strong but at the same time very soft and loving.  They love their men, husbands and sons and will do anything for them sometimes to a fault.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine

... in response to Re: An RM's perception of AM, posted by Jimmy on Jan 22, 2003

The way I like to think of it is this-  My experience has been that RW are typically women that just really relish being women... they love their femininity, their distinct seperateness, and glory in it!  They are not interested in competing with or trying to be men, unlike some AW seem to be. They absolutely love being women, and brother, are they good at it! ;-)

All my opinion of course...

... in response to Re: Re: An RM's perception of AM, posted by Oscar on Jan 23, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: An RM's perception of AM, posted by Jimmy on Jan 22, 2003

What did a dragon ever do to you???