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Hi,

You want to marry a Russian woman? Great, it can be very good for you, however you should understand and calculated with the facts that you will also get a father in law and a mother in law and maybe some other new members of your family over there. Since Russian ladies have closer ties to their family, I believe, than most American men have, you should be prepared to send them Christmas gifts (it costs more to send than to buy). When something bad is happening, illness and other dramatic problems, that will make your wife upset, and is it possible for you to sit and look without helping economical? She will need to make phone calls and there will also be situations when she will need to go back. These are facts you also should include into your calculation.

It's a great pleasure to get a good (Russian) wife, but you also get a lot of new obligations. I hope you are ready for that.

Haroshij

... in response to How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 4, 2003

In other words, they love their familes just like anyone else does and they would expect to visit them occasionally just like anyone else would... ;-)

My fiance calls her family every Sunday for 15-20 minutes.  That comes to about $10 per month.  She hopes and expects that it would be possible for her to go back to Ukraine to visit every 2 or 3 years.  Do I have a problem with that?  No, not at all.  I would want to do the same.

... in response to Re: How to get a new family abroad., posted by Oscar on Jan 5, 2003

Oscar,
No offense, but limiting your girls contact to 15-20 minutes per week and limiting her travel home to once every 2-3 years seems awfully tight to me.  Now, we may be at the other end of the spectrum, but Lena has been home once and her parents will have visited twice in a 3 1/2 year span.  And the only reason she hasn't been home more is because she refused to travel back before she got her green card.  Now that the green card is secured, I expect a yearly trip home.  She speaks with family and friends at least every other day and for a lot longer than 15 minutes.  As I said, you and I may be at opposite ends of the spectrum, but I also think that a newbie should anticipate more than a $10/month phone bill and the expense greater than one trip over a three year period.
KenC

... in response to Huh?, posted by KenC on Jan 7, 2003

No Ken, I would never limit my girls phone use or tell her she could not go home to visit.  She is the one who calls home and as I have stated above in the thread, I never tell her one thing about it..  When she calls on Sunday (she says that's the best time for her family as they are usually all together), she has talked for about 20-25 minutes..  I have told her that she can speak as long as she likes, but she's pretty cost conscious (remember, she wouldn't hear of my going to Warsaw just for her interview, she thought it would be a total waste of money and vacation time) and as with your girl insisting on getting a job to pay for her Christmas presents for you her first year here, my girl is just very careful.  She is the one who told me that she didn't feel it was resaonable for her to go back more than every two or three years.  As I have said above, if that changes, it's ok with me.  And it may certainly change, we're still pretty new at this and I think nothing can or ought to be set in stone..
For example, she has called home today because her little boy has a sore throat and had to stay home from school.  I think it made her feel more comfortable being able to talk to her Mother about it, what to do etc..  I think that's great.

I hope this clarifies a little bit..

... in response to Re: Huh?, posted by Oscar on Jan 7, 2003

Oscar,
I see where I made a mistake in saying that YOU were limiting her to the phone calls and trips and not that she was ther one imposing the limits.  Sorry.  You really should look into the phone cards though.  You can cut down the cost significantly and there by encourage her to call more often.  (Just between us, it is her that has to put up with the frustration of disconnects and such)  Of course this all depends upon her need to stay in contact with home.  I know that it is a necessity here as Lena is very close with her family.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: Huh?, posted by KenC on Jan 7, 2003

You know, I really tried a bunch of the different phone cards but the quality was just so lousy to Dnepro that I finally gave up..
I really do encourage her to call, like I did today as her boy was sick.. She can call whenever she wants, she does know that.  Perhaps she is just trying to show some restraint or something, I don't know.  I am sure things will losen up some as time goes on..

... in response to Re: How to get a new family abroad., posted by Oscar on Jan 5, 2003

I use a $5 phone card & get around 13-18 minutes out of it. You ought to try one out. It could cut your costs in half.

... in response to $10 for 15 or 20 minutes?!...., posted by Frank O on Jan 6, 2003

I have tried the phone cards but never get the quality sound to Dnepropetrovsk I get with WDT.  16 cents is fine for the sound quality, also never get busy signals or cut off like I have with phone cards.

... in response to How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 4, 2003

Give us an account of the extra costs you are paying.

Where in Russia does your wife travel to?

How often do her relatives come to Norway?

What does 1000 Kroner buy in the richest country in the world?

What was the cost of the bone operation to you?

How percentage are your wifes earnings compared to Norwegian womans?

What are the costs of your wifes travel? Does she or you pay for this?

... in response to Re: How to get a new family abroad., posted by Pordzhik on Jan 5, 2003

n/t

... in response to Re: How to get a new family abroad., posted by Pordzhik on Jan 5, 2003

Wow, that was a lot of questions.

I'll try to tell as good as I can.

Q no. 1. In fact both my wife and I are better off now than earlier. She has a good income.

Q. no. 2 St.Petersburg

Q. no. 3. There are no regularity in this. These three years there have been more than one visit every year. Last year we had two visits. One from family and one from friends.

Q. no. 4 What you can buy for 1000 Nok? A cheap new car costs  a little less than 200 000. O good computer you can buy for 7000 Nok. A visit to the doctor costs 110. To fill the fuel tank costs about 500. Everything in Norwegian kroner (Nok). Most things are expensive in Norway.

Q.  no 5. We added something to the regular monthly payment over time (that is doubled it).

Q. no. 6. Her income is higher than the average in Norway both men and women taken into consideration.

Q. no. 7. I don't exactlay remember the costs for a travel to Russia. In summer we drove by car. This time she will go by plane. I will suggest about 1000 $, probably more. We don't talk about my money or her money. We talk about our money, so we both pay for that flight.

Satiesfied. Now I would like to ask you the some questions:

Why did you ask?
Do your wife work?
Who is in charge of your economy? How much do your wife decide?
Have you got visitors from your wifes family?

Have a nice evening. Is it raining over there? Heard there were some problem with too much water.

Haroshij

... in response to Re: Re: How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 5, 2003

I asked to get some perspective.

Your prices are about the same as we have here in Gt.Britain, except the doctors cost which is free.

Your flights are expensive for so short distance, why is that? I could get St.Pete return for £175 from here.

My wife works part-time and earns about 25% of what I do, she takes care of her money well and sometimes helps me with the larger expenses. Most of my money gets paid directly into the bank which takes care of the mortgage and other regulat bills. I guess I decide where the larger part of it goes.

We haven't had any of her family or friends visit yet, I've mentioned it, but we haven't got around to doing anything about it. Nobody over there has suggested anything.

Was it raining here? Didn't notice ;)

... in response to Re: Re: Re: How to get a new family abro..., posted by Pordzhik on Jan 5, 2003

Thank you for your answers.

Domestic flights are unreasonable expensive i Norway. By plane  we need to go via Oslo, and remember Norway is big. There are vast distances here. That makes the whole difference.

I'm quite sure the prices are lower in GB than here. At least that is what we believe here. We pay only for doctors and medicine up to certain level. Above that it's free. All treatment in hospitals are free.

How long time have you been married with your Ukrainian lady?

I agree with you. Those money we send makes whole lot of difference for her family.

Well, we are getting more of that white "rain". I think we have enough now, in fact more than enough.

Haroshij

... in response to How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 4, 2003

n/t

... in response to How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 4, 2003

is it so that it's more interesting to dicuss how much you need to pay for cigarettes than the new commitments you get when you marry a foreign lady?

I've been married twice. My first wife was a Norwegian lady, and the next Russian. I can promise you that till the day Elena started to work, I could feel the new economical burden. When Elena came here, she came empty-handed. She hadn't saved up any rights to pensions here of course, and it worried me because she is 15 years younger. I will probably die many years before her, and I want her to have a secure future here. She had burned many bridges behind her, and she could not easily go back. Therefore I felt responsible for her in many ways, and I bought a privat pension for her (In Norway we have very good public pensions (folketrygd = people's security), but you need to be member some years to get full benefit from it).

She also needed a lot of new clothes, especially sporting clothes. She has family in Russia, and this winter her mother needed to go to the hopital. I've always believed that they had free medical care in Russia like in Norway. Well, it's free, but if you don't pay extra you don't get good quality of your treatment, not the best medicines, not the best materials when the need to strenghten the skeleton with screws and artificial shins. People get pension very early in Russia (at the age of 55), however what they get paid is so little that it's hard for them to live on it. Therefore most people who have a pension continue to work. So if for one reason or another they have to stop to work, they have a problem. Russian people are very afraid of being ill. In this situation we had to help them of course. I feel the same obligation as if it had been my own parents.

Elena has also sent home every month 1000 Norwegian kroner (143 US$) Now she is making money herself, that she didn't all the time.

She also wants to go home regularly. Usually she goes two times every year (I usually go with her on one the trips), and we have had her parents, brother and sister and friends for visits here. Not all of them paid the costs themselves.

This are only a few of the commitments you have to calculate with when you get a foreign bride. It's true you can withdraw the costs of some cheap taxfree vodka when she comes back from Russia :-).

Haroshij

... in response to Have I misunderstood something or, posted by Horoshij on Jan 5, 2003

Before Vicoria got here, I was eating about two meals a week at home. Everything else was out somewhere. It got to be a joke:

"No, we're not eating at McDonald's tonight! I'm tired of you eating junk. Tonight we'll go to KFC..."

Even though it was just me and my 9 year old daughter, mostly eating fast food, that adds up!

Now that Victoria is here, I have been eating every meal at home. (She is the hero of my dog, who can't *believe* all of the treats he gets now! He follows her around constantly...)

Not only that, everything is MUCH cheaper when you make it from scratch. (She won't even consider buying a cake mix. What for she asks? It is more simple to just make it yourself...) We had our first meal from a can (Campbell's soup) just today. Not bad, she tells me, but next time, she'll buy the tomatoes and make the soup herself...

So, even though my family size doubled, my actual monthly expenses have gone down.

She is so frugal that I have to be careful to EVER mention a price to her. EVERYTHING costs too much to her way of thinking.

If it weren't for the fact that she missed her dad so much, I don' think she would even call home.

So, it all depends on how you were living PRIOR to your wife arriving, as well as the kind of person your wife is.

... in response to Have I misunderstood something or, posted by Horoshij on Jan 5, 2003

I agree with you, Haroshij, that anyone pursuing an RW should take into account the additional financial expense associated with having a new wife with, at least at first, no means of financial support, as well as the possibility of additional medical and the highly likely expense of additional dental work for her as well as any children, INS expense, driving school, return visits home, and, as you raised in your initial post, the possibility of support payments to her family.

If you can afford it, fine, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck or just getting by, it's going to be a major problem.  Unlike the costs of the initial visits, letters, and phone calls, these are expenses that are not one-time occurrences.  There is a lot of good information as to what those expenses are or might be, and anyone planning to pursue a RW should budget accordingly.  Most RW are willing to work but in most instances that will only defray a small portion of the additional expense, as Haroshij's post correctly points out.

... in response to Re: Have I misunderstood something or, posted by Charles on Jan 5, 2003

There are lots of stories about $10,000 in dental work needing to be done.  Fortunately, both my wife and my son were in pretty good shape, and we haven't had to do much out of the ordinary.

A couple of people have recommended getting dental work done in one of the better private clinics there, before coming over on a fiancee visa.  There are good dentists over there, and the cost isn't nearly as great as it is if you wait...

BTW, happy new year, Charles...

Steve M.

... in response to Dental Expenses are the Crusher for Some, posted by SteveM on Jan 8, 2003

[This message has been edited by MarkInTx]

Yes, it is MUCH cheaper over there... Victoria had some work done before coming over, and it was very cheap.

I'm not sure the quality is as good... for instance, they don't seem to have embraced the enamel filling which is common place here. Of course, I don't know if she went to a good private clinic or not. She was always trying to save my money so much, she probably didn't even get novocaine if it cost extra... At least it enables us to take our time before correcting most dental work.

Unfortunately, her son needs quite a lot of work done, and probably braces. Luckily my employer provides dental insurance, or it might be a real problem...

I would say that this is one "urban legend" that is pretty true.

I think dental hygiene in general is not as common in eastern europe -- especially the provincial towns. (And there is no flouride in the water, either)

Though I had to get firm with my step-son about the brushing... it is MUCH better now.

... in response to How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 4, 2003

This is one of the most important topics that is never talked about on this board.  Recently it was a very hot topic on RWL.

The newbies, including myself until recently, just do not realize the possible financial burden that they are taking on.  Of course it varies from situation to situation, but many western guys have found themself on the hook (whether they agree to it or not) for supporting (fully or partially) not only their RW and her existing children, but mothers, fathers, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, and the list goes on and on.

And all the protestations from guys here who will answer 'my inlaws refuse any help' are just kidding themselves.  The time is just not ripe yet, whether by circumstances or by plan.

JR

... in response to One of most important posts here, posted by juio99 on Jan 4, 2003

It has been discussed here at great length..

... in response to One of most important posts here, posted by juio99 on Jan 4, 2003

I think the amount of "support" you will have to provide will vary with each situation.  Some families expect and are planning on substantial support, some are not, as was the case with me, although when her mother died I was more than happy to pay for additional medical expenses and other costs.  I think the important thing is that you should get an idea of what the expectations are regarding this issue so you can include it in your overall decision to pursue a particular woman.   They should be willing to discuss this issue with you.

... in response to Re: One of most important posts here, posted by Charles on Jan 4, 2003

I agree Charles, this is something that needs discussed.  However, the likelihood of a complete discussion is very small.  There are many that are going to keep this a secret until the man is hooked.

And more importantly, of course, is that fact that they honestly don't know what is going to occur in the future to give rise to the need.

So, most important thing is for the guy to know up front, that there is the high probabiltiy of that there is going to be some major expenditures coming down the pike in the future.

Also, I forgot to mention in first post.  Many 'holier than thou's' will respond that the guy must be a real cheapskate if he is not willing to help when the parents (or whoever) are starving (or whatever) back in the homeland of his spouse.  But that is not the point.  Of course, we will all help.

The point is, that probably zero guys here who are looking have factored this into their equation.  We see much here about how much less expensive the RW are compared to greedy AW.  But these posters have no idea how all their extra money (at some point down the road for them just as for you Charles) is going to go to support the 'extended family' for their RW.

JR

... in response to Yes, but, posted by juio99 on Jan 4, 2003

At least, your purported ability to predict, "that there is the high probabiltiy [sic] of that there is going to be some major expenditures coming down the pike in the future."

Where do you come by these "probabilities" JR?

While you are at it - how about some insights into your basis for the remark, "zero guys here who are looking have factored this into their equation." Are you the *only* one with sufficient capacity to have thought ahead this far?!?

- Dan

... in response to Yes, but, posted by juio99 on Jan 4, 2003

bucks to his MIL every month, and sometimes much more.  This has been going on for more than 5 years.  And his MIL is all alone...no one else.  Actually, she is hoarding the money until the time her daughter divorces her American husband and returns to Moscow with a nice new apartment and all new furniture, etc, plus lots of dinero in the bank.

... in response to No kidding..One guy I know sends at leas..., posted by Stevo on Jan 4, 2003

Tell me Stevo - how is it that you know about this guy's MIL support habits? Being so close, you undoubtedly advise the guy of the foolishness of his behavior - don't you Stevo? And being so close - he *should* accept your counsel with some credibility - doesn't he Stevo?

Let's see - $1k/mo for 5 years - so $60k to date, give or take.

How much does the guy make? Is that amount of money significant for him? You seem awfully close - so surely you know the answer to these questions as well Stevo.

- Dan

... in response to Yes, Of Course . . ., posted by Dan on Jan 4, 2003

ggg

... in response to Why do you care how, and how well, I kno..., posted by Stevo on Jan 4, 2003

You are again posting about someone else's experiences - not your own.

You claim to know information that is beyond the sort of information one normally picks up through a casual connection - therefore, you surely have a closer relationship than merely casual - don't you Stevo?

Since you surely have this closer relationship, it would be the responsible thing to tell a close relation that they were being foolish with their MIL support habits. Wouldn't that be the responsible thing to do with a close relation Stevo?

And with that close relationship in place - surely this guy would pay heed to your sage advice. Right Stevo?

I am merely inquiring as to the veracity of your recount of someone else's experiences Stevo - and indexing them to *your* level of credibility.

- Dan

... in response to Simple . . ., posted by Dan on Jan 5, 2003

I'm not in the habit of revealing my personal relationships with others, and their level, to satisfy someone's curiosity.

... in response to You want to believe me, great...you don'..., posted by Stevo on Jan 5, 2003

"I'm not in the habit of revealing my personal relationships with others"

From the guy who NEVER posts his own opinion on anything.

Laughable.

- Dan

... in response to What a Joke . . ., posted by Dan on Jan 6, 2003

ggg

... in response to You'd rather have OPINIONS than FACTS?....., posted by Stevo on Jan 6, 2003

n/t

... in response to Someday - - - Maybe - - - You Will Post ..., posted by Dan on Jan 6, 2003

ggg

... in response to Too bad...n/t, posted by Stevo on Jan 6, 2003

n/t

... in response to No kidding..One guy I know sends at leas..., posted by Stevo on Jan 4, 2003

Ask him to send some my way.  Jeez...what a dope!!!

... in response to How to get a new family abroad., posted by Horoshij on Jan 4, 2003

Getting the Christmas gifts over there ain't a problem as my wife has settled into her regular visits, about four times a year. Always she spends Christmas here with me and New Year in Kiev (she's there now).

My wife works part-time and earns decent enough money for the few hours she puts in, so can pay for her flights herself (about £210 each) and leaves her family with some money each time. A couple hundred pounds (I think) X4 times per year = £800 yearly thats $1280 for our American readers. That extra $100 per month makes all the difference for her family.

Which was what I was going to post about. How do the rest of you married guys and wives help her folks back home?

Actually the cost of the flights are near self financing as she always brings back a case full of Ukrainian folk art which she will sell on a sunday market and a couple of 200 cartons of ciggs which she sells for £50 here. I get the bottle of vodka to myself!

We havn't had any dramatic problems, except the back wall needed rebuilding on the dacha, which had been worrying her mother some until I rebuilt it last summer.

... in response to I was about to post something along the ..., posted by Pordzhik on Jan 4, 2003

FIFTY pounds? Fifty BRITISH pounds? For 200 cigarettes? Let's see, in US money that's about $80.00....and that's on the black market? Just what the &^%*# kind of taxes do you folks have to pay over there? They only cost $25 to $35 here (Texas) depending on the brand, some of the real cheap brands are only $18.00. Heck, I just RYO and make 200 of them for about $11.00. When I was in Colombia last year, they had packs of 10 and 20, depending on the brand, the 10 packs of the cheap brands (which actually weren't bad at all) cost about 15 or 20 cents, a 20 pack of a premium brand was maybe 60 cents. I saw that many street vendors had 3 or 4 open packs of different brands and their customers would buy only one or two cigarettes at a time.

... in response to Re: I was about to post something along ..., posted by Michael B on Jan 4, 2003

I said two cartons of 200 per carton, the allowance we can bring in from non-EU countries.

For quality brands; cost is £4.50 ($7.00 US) per pack of twenty ciggs.

Thats £45.00 per carton, so she sells them for £25.00 per carton.

Yes we do have some of the highest duties and taxes in the world, including petrol (gas) at £3.50 per gallon.

... in response to NO NO NO Read again!, posted by Pordzhik on Jan 5, 2003

Yep, I was dying with those prices when I was over there.  I was having mine shipped through traffic at work for awhile.  I got a bill one day from DHL in my hotel.  It was for 6480 Pounds duty for 2 cartons.  When I called they sheepishly explained that there was an error, it should read 6.48 pounds.  Nearly had a heart attack.

... in response to NO NO NO Read again!, posted by Pordzhik on Jan 5, 2003

I thought you meant she sold EACH carton for fifty pounds. Still, 4.50 pounds per pack is outrageous, except for taxes, they only cost about 30 or 40 cents to manfacture in the US, even much less in 3rd world countries with lower labor and raw material costs. Speaking of 3.50 pounds a gallon gasoline, I heard on the radio last week that a lot of people in GB are mixing 50/50 diesel and cooking oil in their diesel cars to beat the taxes, the food grade oil is actualy cheaper than the (taxed) petrolium. Is that ture? Heck, then let's just run the gas models on potchin.

... in response to Re: NO NO NO Read again!, posted by Michael B on Jan 5, 2003

that began with one family in Wales using cooking oil, actually the difference in price is pennies. I've not seen any of it around here. It's a big risk, £2000.00 fine and car destroyed for first offence add to that six months imprisonment for 2nd offence.

I run a diesel, that gives 40+ mpg it's turbocharged so gets over that slow pull-away, mind, we have more cars per mile of road than anywhere in the world, so performance can't really be used. I aways tank-up when I'm in Calais as it's much cheaper.

... in response to I was about to post something along the ..., posted by Pordzhik on Jan 4, 2003

Having mum-in-law 1300 miles and a whole different language away.

... in response to And the up-side is, posted by Pordzhik on Jan 4, 2003

Your wife is a resourceful woman. She might do good making some "shopping trips" across the chunnel. I heard they are no longer confiscating cars there. I did a trip once with a friend, got some booze and fags which was resold for a handsome profit.

... in response to Wow, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 4, 2003

We are close to the Channel ports and our French trips are more than self-financing. A bit of a bonus for those of us living in SE England. The Customs can and do still confiscate cars if they can prove the goods were for re-sale. Not only the car, but you'll find yourself in some real trouble if you overdo things.

... in response to And the up-side is, posted by Pordzhik on Jan 4, 2003

LMAO