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BubbaGump, Bob, Watcher and MtMav excuse my delay in getting back to your questions. Not sure where to start so I'll just jump right in. Yes, there has been a tremendous change in the means, methods and ways in one going about trying to find his Russian dreambride. As we were talking about Club Prima to get this conversation going, I feel that at the time Club Prima was publishing a catalog might have been the Golden Days (the five years from 1994 thru 1998).

Today you have more Russian ladies who are seeking foreign men because of the introduction of the Internet. And it is because of the Internet that you have seen all but a few agencies who still publish catalogs. At one time there must have been a dozen to 15 different agencies publishing catalogs, today I think there are only two or three. The Internet allows us to look at many more potential ladies, unfortunately it has opened the flood gates to the more seedy underside of seeking a Russian bride, the high percentage of scammers on the Internet.

So guys when you ask about the percentage of ladies who respond from agencies, to give a more exacting answer one has to examine the type of agencies and try to exclude the scam agencies from these figures. With the scam agencies, as well as individual scammers, you are going to have a much higher response rate, probably in excess of a 90% response rate. New guys just starting out might think one agency is a lot better because of the high percent of ladies who respond, and on the other hand these guys might think lesser of a legit agency which had a much lower percentage of it's ladies to reply.

And then I have what I call the 80-20 rule. 80% of all the guys writing to the ladies from any one agency are writing the same 20% of the ladies. With these 20% of the ladies getting so much attention, when they first are listed they respond back to almost 100% of the men they have interest in. But after only a month or two these same ladies are now responding back to maybe 1 out of every 15 or 20. Timing is everything.  

BubbaGump, in one of your questions you have also given the answers. Your question "Are more women advertising because they are hearing good things from women abroad or are they deciding we are easy picking?" The answer is both. Ladies who had never dreamed of coming to America have learned there is such a good chance just by putting there photo on the internet. The more beautiful of ladies realize they have even a better chance. Then you have your Russian scammers and s1uts who know many of us are easy picking. If she can just get a man to come see her, the Russian s1ut knows if she screws his brains out with-in the first 30 minutes of meeting she probably has a free ticket to America. One version of your Russian scammer on the other hand just wants to correspond with hopes of creating some cash cows and will abruptly end the relationship when the man is with-in a few weeks of making his trip to see her. Other Russian scammers will see the men in hopes of getting new clothes and appliances for her flat as well as exotic vacations. I think you guys would be amazed at the number of poor Russian ladies who have big screen TV's, VCR's, washer and dryers, etc, due to there cash cows.

Bob, yes, many ladies would be surprised if they knew how many sites they were really on! Many ladies sign up for one site and over a period of 2 years will end up on 15 or 20! We have had ladies on our site who were only on our site. In six month or one year I see these ladies on other sites. We would ask the ladies about this and many indicated they had only agreed to, or knew about being only on our site. After investigating many times I have found that I have un-knowingly sold several addresses to a competitor who bought them from me. When bringing this up to the ladies and telling them I will send a letter and ask for her to be removed from the site, most ladies say please do not, they do not mind being on several sites and in reality I can't blame them. Now to me it is one thing to add ladies to your site who are actively seeking a relationship with a foreign man and something totally different to add ladies to a site when the agency owner KNOWS the ladies do not have interest in marriage to a foreign man, such as the case with Face of Siberia.

Bob, as to the fate to the long term survival of the MOB business, it's only getting bigger and more entrenched. Sure things and aspects will change, but the industry as we know it today still has a minimum solid 10 years, and that's a long time. Until there are laws, regulations and guidelines which can regulate the industry you are not going to see any major changes or slowdown. Even if there are such regulations that come about from here in the states, as long as it is not regulated or changes imposed in Russia, Ukraine, the rest of the FSU, there will be no substantial changes and I don't see anything like this coming about from the FSU for at least 10 years.

Watcher, I have answered two of your three questions above. To answer your remaining question I need to put some thought to that. What would the response rate from ladies from my site be? With all things considered and equal, I think for every guy who bought 10 addresses he would get a reply from about 3.8 to 4.1 ladies.

MtMav, your right in that with many of the questions asked I could, and should, write a book to justify the answers. As I am swamped for time right now (can't believe the number of guys going in the winter!) I am giving rather short, to the point answers. As such I am probably am not being fair to many of the new guys who are beginning this most wonderful of pursuits. As I read your questions I see many answered above but not all....."How have the perceptions (disillusionment? or heightened excitement?) and expectations of FSU ladies changed??? Have FSU ladies themselves changed over the past 10 or 12 years? How about the AM pursuing FSU ladies today vice 10 or 12 years ago? Any discernable, recent trends? Any predictions concerning the future of the industry?".....

Well, look at what is happening today!! Look at Anastasia-web and E-700. Only the most naive of guys don't know what is going on here. These two leaders in the industry used to make there profits from the men going to there large socials. At one time you had 55, 60 men attending. Today you have 20,  25 and many times  less. With the number of addresses these two sold, it paid for there expensive yearly publication and distribution of catalogs (about $300,000). With the turn down in the economy, with 9-11 and with more guys becoming educated as to what is really going on at these large socials, these two are struggling to offset there great loss of revenue from there socials, thus was born Anastasia-web and E-700. Now, even after saying that, if the number of men who are currently in the FSU and those who are planning to go in the dead of winter this year (usually the slow time of the year for me) is any indication, there are going to be a LOT of guys going to Russia, Ukraine and other countries of the FSU this coming year.

In 1993 thru 1998 there was the greatest excitement amongst Russian women in knowing that it was possible for them to escape Russia. In these early days is when you saw a lot of middle aged, out of shape men bringing these supermodel's home as there wife to America. You have to realize that at this time you had a few major publications that had put together some very nice catalogs and boy did they paint a pretty picture. Talk about
"effective" marketing! Go to three socials over a weekend and meet 800 beautiful, young, sensual Russian women who prefer men 20 years there senior who will make wonderful wife's. I was one of 50,000 men who believed what I read. As I have said several times over the last few years, I am so lucky that I had made plans to meet more than one Russian woman on my first trip or I would have also married the first and only Russian woman I ever met. So many men in those days, and I am afraid even today, confuse good sex for good love. They ain't the same! It was a great learning experience for which I am forever grateful. There are many, many, many wonderful, sincere Russian women in the FSU. In fact I know without any doubt that there are 75% more of these types of ladies that there are the Russian scammers and s1uts as I met many ladies from 1995 thru 1999. Some of these ladies I had corresponded with for 6 and 7 months. Some of these were real, wonderful and sincere ladies, some women (can't use the term ladies) were striping my clothes off with-in minutes of meeting and we were being closed doors. As I was looking for a Russian woman for life, any woman who would have sex with me with-in the first hours of us meeting, even after 6 months of corresponding, was nothing more than a s1ut. I could find this type of woman all over America. Basically there are the very good Russian ladies, of which I feel 75% of these ladies are, and then you have your 25% who are scammers and s1uts. No good Russian woman is going to have sex with a man until she has had the chance to get to know him. My advice to any of you guys looking for a Russian bride is if you can have sex with your Russian lady the first day you have met her, she is not a good Russian lady. The reason we hear so much about scammers today and there appears to be so many scammers is because a great majority of the ladies on the Internet are scammers. Sure there are many fine ladies but this is why it is usually better to write, get to know many ladies, in hopes of weeding out the scammers. One good thing about guys running personal ads in newspapers and magazines throughout the FSU is it usually attracts a much higher percentage of sincere ladies. Scammers have it made on the Internet today, they don't need to respond to personal ads as it is too much work for them. After I discovered how effective personal ads were in 1998, I continued to run them. What I discovered was that most the ladies who replied to a personal ad had never really thought of marriage to a foreign man and most had never thought about leaving there country. With most ladies who replied to my personal ads I was the first and only foreigner they had ever written. I quickly realized I wanted a lady who was not dreaming about marriage to a foreign man or leaving her country.

Is there luck involved in this great pursuit? You bet there is but you can each help to make your own luck. My Russian bride was never on the Internet, never with a marriage agency. She had never thought of marriage to a foreign man or that she would ever leave Ukraine. She happened to read my ad in a catalog in a restaurant two months after the ad had expired. Now I must say running of personal ads today is not nearly as effective as they were 5 years ago but I would recommend the running of personal ads (and this does not mean the so-called Gentleman's catalogs or sending your profile to some 200 agencies of which 150 are suspect) and with selective and choosey address purchases.

Now one major thing I have noticed over the past five years is the quality of the men seeking Russian women. There were a lot of geeks and dorks in those early days. It was sickening to see these 52 year old, 5ft 6 inch men with these 25 year old, 5ft 9 inch Russian beauties. These guys really thought these women had sincere interest in them and a major reasoning was the "black marketing". It was marketed that Russian ladies did not care about how a man looked, or his age, or if he was rich or poor, but only his heart. Well that's bull crap and this is leading me to today's situation MtMav. Russian women today, that is good Russian women, are being more choosey and selective. And on the other side of the spectrum, you have more quality men who are seeking these Russian beauties. You still have your percentage of dorfs but the percentage is much less than in years past.

The key to the future of this pursuit for a Russian bride is education. If men would do there homework before jumping into this, if men would read these discussion boards, learn of the scam agencies and of the tendencies of Russian scammers and s1uts, then fewer men would be getting scammed. I predict that in three to five years there will be a network of honest and ethical agencies. Once this network is built and in place, than the great majority of men will hopefully be doing business with agencies in this network. The scam agencies will have to change or just fold up. I have worked hard since 1998 in trying to find honest and ethical marriage agencies and I think today I have about 24 or 25 agencies I work with and feel very good about.

Agencies that at one time may have been guilty of doing questionable things are changing there ways, they are learning that they will have to. As some of you may know I looked for a couple of years to find a good agency in Kharkov and Kharkov has not had the best of reputations. I have a wonderful working relationship with two honest and ethical marriage agencies in Kharkov, Sergey of IDI-Bridge as well as Bridge to Bride.  But I am happy to say that my arch enemy in Kharkov, Dmitry with KharkovGirls, has over the past two years done a very good job and needs to be complimented. Without Dmitry's knowledge I have had several clients to use his services while they were in Kharkov and Dmitry has given each of these guys good honest and ethical services. I say give credit where credit is due. If an agency does good and honest work the world should know about them.  I am hoping over the next three to four years we have such a well defined and known group of honest and ethical agencies that the scam agencies will shrink to no more than 20 or 25 % as opposed to the over 70% of FSU marriage agencies today I think are scam.

Now in closing I would like to say before the cry babies start saying 'where's your proof, where's your proof ' to all these things I have said, let me say that everything I have stated is MY opinion. I think that is what you guys had asked for and this is what I am offering, my opinion, based on almost 9 years of this most wonderful part of my life in dealing with Russian women both for myself and for men who are seeking a good Russian woman.

Everybody will have there own opinions. For the guy who only wrote one woman, met one woman and married her, it is his opinion that writing one, visiting one, is the best way to go. You will have those guys who wrote many ladies and met many ladies before choosing his dreambride and of course his opinion is going to be to write and see many. I have done both. I have written one (for 7 months), visited one and it was a complete disaster and I swore never again. I think it is a numbers game and the more sincere, good ladies you can meet on a single trip the better your odds are. I wonder how a guy really knows he married the best Russian woman for him if he never met a second, or third, Russian lady. Who does he have this one Russian woman he married to compare her to? You talk about an eye opener, just try to meet 3 or 4 different Russian ladies, you owe it to yourself.

I learn something new everyday in the Russian bride business and I have learned that all men are different. Even though I feel a guy has a better chance of finding the best bride for him by meeting several ladies in a short period of time and then concentrating on the one or two he felt the most chemistry with on any given trip, some men just cannot meet more than one woman, correspond with more than one woman, at a time. So each man must do what is best for him but he needs to study and know what all the possibilities are.

Of all the guys I know who took there time, met several ladies, less than 10% got scammed. For those men who are serious about this pursuit and who will work hard and think with his big head, I think he has a good chance of finding a good Russian bride. Once you have found a good Russian bride your life will never be the same.

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

Rags, Watcher, MtMav, deatchef, Cold Warrior, Frank O, tim360z, hockeyguy, Oscar, Quasimoto, Bob, KenC thank you all for your kind words.

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

Jack,
I am impressed by your post.  So much, that I forwarded it to a buddy that is interested in this pursuit.
KenC

... in response to GREAT post, Jack, posted by KenC on Dec 17, 2002

Ken, if I hear from your buddy I will suggest to him that he take any and all the advice he could gleam from you!

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

You're a gentleman and a scholar!  
Bob

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

I must add that for many men, meeting one woman is their way, and their best way of dealing with the situation there. I myself am just not a very good "player". I don't like to string them along and play games with hearts. But I will say, that after my two experiences of going and meeting one woman each trip, I am convinced that for myself, I must change or die - by that I mean get out! So when I go back I will meet 30 women and then narrow the field. I have also met some sincere ladies over there. I really think I met 3 gems, but they just weren't right. I know that my changed opinion will bring up a sore topic again, but it has become MY reality, and is not neccessarily the formula to success for others. I also feel I had to learn the hard way, and make this change through experience. It still won't come easy. If I could have followed Jack and other's advice when I started 3 years ago, I think I would be in a lot better position today - Romanitcally, and financially.

Steve

... in response to Re: Great post!, posted by Quasimoto on Dec 16, 2002

Quasio,

 It is very difficult to dwell on someone's kind heart as being a reason for failure. Your kind heart has gotten you scammed with most women you have had interest in.

 I have said many times that the single most difficult part of the entire pursuit for a Russian bride is in telling so many good women they are not the one for you. Nothing was as hard on me as this task. It was just as hard the first time as it was the last time.

 I think you have felt sorry for some of the lades you have got involved with and you could not hurt there feelings. Quasio, we can't marry all the Russian women we feel sorry for.

 Although it goes against your character and might be hard to do, I think for you to succeed you are going to have to meet several ladies on a single trip. Because you will have committments to meet ladies number 4 and 7 and ?, you will not be able to stop with lady 1 and see no others. Sure it is going to take work and time for you to find some 6 to 8 ladies in any one city or area that you are going to visit, but it can be done in usually 3, 4 or 5 months time.

 If you can see it in yourself to make such a committment and do the things required, I would work with you on putting together such a trip.

... in response to Great post!, posted by Jack on Dec 17, 2002

you have a good offer from Jack.  Now, I don't agree with everything Jackie Bragg has to say,  but in this case---this is a very good idea for you.  In some things one needs someone with more experience, with a cold pragmatic view. Call it a cold and calculating method, fine,  this is not a bad thing.  Someone in your corner.   And you know,  he really isn't looking for money on this offer...he's offering you his experience.  I say trust him.  This is a deal you should take.  Steve,  this is a very tricky pursuit,  which is full of risk.  I hate to say it...but it is.  You have taken a big hit. It is difficult for most American men to penetrate the psyche of a Russian woman.  

Look at it like an investment or insurance.  You want to spread and reduce your risk...a wise thing to do.  That should be your modus operandi and be patient and take your time..a big rush makes a big mess.  My Russian Grandma taught me that.

I am 1/2 Russian.  As a kid I grew up with all the stuff, but I do have some inate ability to understand many Russians,  maybe its genetic or something,  don't know.  There are so many really wonderful women there,  but you have to spend the time to really know them.  And you have to know when to fold the cards and walk away too.  If it isn't feeling right...you just walk away.

Perspective: Would you go to Miami or Chicago and marry the 1st or 2nd girl you met there.  No, of course not.  Same with Russians,  meet many and compare.  Escaping from a bad marriage is an odious task.  Take your time and think wisely.  I think jack can help keep you on track.

Now,  I have never used any of Jack's services,  but we have conversed and I know he is a man of experience and character...something rare in this line.  And the dollar is not his prime motivation...its acclomplishment.  This year,  maybe next year I will go to Russia.  And I will definitely call him to make some travel and accomadation arrangements.  And if for some reason,  things go wrong---I know just who to call and bltch to.  And he will be there,  I know that.

I hope this has been of some help to you Steve,  take a little break,  learn from this pain and don't be afraid to enlist a little experience,  with a different POV to guide you,  Cheers,  Tim

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

I appreciate the advice.

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

area, that being the ads.  Jack states that they will attract ladies who never thought of this before and who are not on other sites.  Jack has much more experience at this than I, but I don't quite see how this computes.

Given that many women in FSU seem to know someone who has married a westerner or who is at least corresponding with a westerner, I find it difficult to believe most haven't at least given it some thought.  And if they have given it some thought, I would think they would be on some web site or agency list somewhere.

I only tried the ads once just because a friend of mine in Russia almost was going to place the ad without telling me anyway.  Of the 15 or so responses that I got, 3 were from ladies who I had already seen on websites.  The others may very well have been on websites also, because I only dealt with 4 websites out of the 100s available.

Again, because of Jack's much greater experience than myself, I am not actually disputing his claims re ads, but it just doesn't seem logical to me and was not borne out in my own personal experience.

JR

... in response to Excellent post.  I only have a comment o..., posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

Oh my god! I can't believe I am going to reply to someone who feels, and I quote""... the guys who are married to or are marrying gals from FSU are really losers because they can't get the gals from Asian and Latin areas. And those who aren't yet married are even bigger losers because they can't even attract the less than desirable gals from FSU. JR/juio99  12/05/02

Hey scum loser JR/juio99/Leo, only because you brought up some valid questions and I think it will help others, I will respond to some of your question. (I think the respect I have for JR/juio99/Leo will be apparent in the tone of my sarcastic response's but hopefully the contents of the replies will be beneficial to others)

From JR/juio99/Leo (JjL),.."'....Jack states that they will attract ladies who never thought of this before and who are not on other sites. Jack has much more experience at this than I, but I don't quite see how this computes.."'.....   What don't you see JR/juio99?Leo? There are millions and millions and millions of Russian ladies who are not on the Internet, never touched a computer. Some of these same millions and millions and millions of Russian ladies read there local newspaper two and three times a week, especially more so in the winter. Now, let me elaborate on that last part, "especially more so in the winter". With my own personal experience, as well as those from all the clients I have ran ads for since 1998, men seem to get good results from the third week of December thru too the second week of February with the best weeks being the last week of December and two weeks of January. It didn't dawn on me why at first I was seeing such a good response rate at this time (my own Natalia wrote me from an ad I started in January) but I think I figured out why the such good respondse rate at this time. It get's dark very early this time of year. 5pm and it's getting dark quick! It's coldddd, it's wet, there is probably lot's of snow and ice. Most ladies go straight home during these winter days, most ladies want to be outside as little as possible. So the ladies are home, and now it's the holidays seasons. Now you want to be with people and if you don't have someone in your life, maybe your a bit lonely. I think many ladies read the newspaper during these times and if they see someone in the personal ads section of there home newspaper, if they like the way this guy looks and they read that he has interest in marriage to a Russian woman and he will visit Ukraine/Russia in the Spring AND you include a local Ukraine or Russian mailing address, more ladies have a tendecy to write men a letter!

Now JjL, there are millions and millions of Russian ladies who are not part of marriage agencies or on Internet sites. With great confidence I can tell you that over 80% of the ladies who reply back to a man from personal ads from local city newspapers are NOT on the internet!  Does any of this compute with you now JjL?

JR/juio99/Leo..."'Given that many women in FSU seem to know someone who has married a westerner or who is at least corresponding with a westerner."'.......Maybe this is YOUR given JjL, certainly is not mine. I guess it is comes down to how one defines the word 'many'. Your 'many' could constitute 30, 75, 500, 1000. My many, in this case, would reflect millions. I feel there are millions of Russian ladies who do not know someone who has married a westerner and there are millions of Russian ladies who do not have a personal friend who is corresponding with a western man.

JjL..."'...I find it difficult to believe most haven't at least given it some thought..'" ....Well JjL I think a great many, millions of Russian ladies, have dreamed of such and have wondered about marriage to a foreign man, but for the great majority of these Russian women they feel it is truly a dream and don't put much more into than a brief passing thought and wishful thinking. Now, put your best photo and a well written ad in front of the lady, with a local number to write you back at, and see how many of those ladies will take a chance on that dream,...just as my future wife did. She had never replied to a personal ad before in her life. She saw the ad, liked what she read, and took a chance. She really didn't think she would ever hear back from me. Now she considers it fate. She says and thinks it was meant to happen. It was something she had only thought about briefly before in her life, being married to an American man, living outside Ukraine. I think there are millions and millions and millions of ladies who have given it some thought, but who have not posted there photo on the internet.

JjL......"'And if they have given it some thought, I would think they would be on some web site or agency list somewhere."'.....Well, duhhhhhh. All one has to do is to look on the Internet, look at the various marriage agencies, and one can see 100,000's of thousand of women who did give it some thought!

JjL...."' I only tried the ads once just because a friend of mine in Russia almost was going to place the ad without telling me anyway. Of the 15 or so responses that I got, 3 were from ladies who I had already seen on websites....'' .. 15 !!! 15 responses from a personal ad ran through out several cities of the FSU?  And 15 replies is all you got?  Well! I can see why now you have such a great dis-taste for personal ads!  And 33.3% of your replies had been on the Internet!!  Well, I am flabbergasted. I don't know what to say to that. I have never seen such a high percentage of ladies who were listed on the Internet to reply to a man's personal newspaper ad. You seem to have all the bad luck JjL. Thank goodness you are getting laid enough on your trips over.

Jjl....''' Again, because of Jack's much greater experience than myself, I am not actually disputing his claims re ads, but it just doesn't seem logical to me and was not borne out in my own personal experience..."'.. JjL, I am not sure we are talking apples to apples. I don't know that we are talking about you running your personal ad in some real newspapers that were published in many cities of the FSU, cities and villages of 600 people, 1000 people, cities of 8000, 20,000, 90,000, 250,000 and 1 million people! Did you include a nice photo (good photo makes a ton of difference), a well written ad indicating you would be visiting soon and a local address for these ladies to reply too??

Jjl....'".Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria '"......Sure JjL, write a very non-descript ad and this is exactly what you will get. A waste of your time, and the ladies time who replied back to you if you ask me. Describe exactly the type lady you want, the exact age requirements, height, looks that you seek. The more exacting you are the fewer replies you will get but they will be, for the most part, what you have asked for. When I wrote my first personal ad JjL I also experienced the same problem as you describe. Didn't you learn anything from your mistakes JR/juio99/Leo?

JjL..."' At least when we review ladies on websites, we can choose to make initial contact with those who meet some of our basic criteria..."' ...The only half-way logical statement you have made in your response back to me. Absolutely correct, one must use all practical and reasonable options he has to meet the type ladies he is seeking. Of course men should also consider this resource.

JjL...'" One of the big problems with ads, in my estimation, is that there is a severe restriction on the number of words allowed '''....JjL, one can write a good ad with 110 to 120 words, I help to write such ads every week. As newspaper ads are priced by the number of words, ads can be well written with 120 words and less.

JjL..."'  Because of that, the guy can't come close to listing his criteria for the type of woman he would like to meet."'... HOGWASH JR/juio99/Leo! Do you know what you are talking about or are you just blabbering into the wind! Absolutely you have enough words to describe the type lady you are looking for.

JjL..."' If some outfit would agree to publish ads with no word restrictions (and what's up with this restriction anyway, they can always just charge by the word) then that would be a big improvement.."'.....JjL, a man can use as few, or as many words as he wants. There are no word restrictions to my knowledge. Now once you get over X number of words then the ad is no longer considered a personal ad but a business ad, or at least subject to business ads rates. I have never had any client to ever use so many words that the ad crossed over from personal to business ad rates.

JjL..."' However, regardless of what the guy states, he is still going to get responses from ladies who miss the criteria by a mile.."'.....If a man writes a sorry ad JjL, he will probably get ladies who miss the criteria by a mile. If a man writes a well worded, well defined ad, he will get a great many more of the type of ladies he is seeking and other ladies who miss the criteria by only half a mile.

JjL..."' Sure, some guys get a kick out of opening mailbox to find a flood of letters, and it probably makes them feel good about themselves. But when you consider the time involved to wade through this, it is very inefficient use of time.."'....It is an inefficient use of time if you go about the process half-ass or don't know what you are doing. JjL, I would be most curious to hear about your experience with running a personal ad. Where did you run this ad, how long did the ad run, what did the ad say. How did you describe the type lady you were seeking? How many words did you use in your ad. Describe the type photo you included. Did you include a local address for these ladies to write to, or your address in America? Did you include a local phone number for these ladies to call or your e-mail address? What did you pay for the ad you ran?

I think with the information you might be able to share, between the two of us we can hopefully give interested guys an idea as to the proper and improper ways of running an ad.

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

Once you get past the sarcasm ...

I found all of what you said to be true. Newbies take note! I went this route and got many great replies. I found my bride before I got to persue many of them, but I can't complain about the results :)

I placed my ad as a "backup" (just in case) only three weeks before I went and I certainly felt that at least 75% were fine/sincere ladies. That left 15% lookie lou s and 10% with ulterior motives. Pretty good odds if you ask me and a heck of a lot better than you will do on the 'net. A well timed and written ad is THE way to go IMHO.

Jack has omitted (out of modesty, I'm sure) what his people can do to help you screen the replies including translate / scan / email / return photos ("thank you for your reply, but.." letters). It's a quality service that treats these ladies with respect. It's something that they might try again if their first attempt is unsuccessful, unlike many of the alienating practices of dealing with an agency or going to a "social". If you want to troll in some big (basically pristine) water, this is the way.

BTW, my wife had never considered moving to the US, even in her fantasies. She knew no one who had done this and really was not to sure that she wanted to.        It took a lot of presuasion on my part ;0

She had listed with a agency, but I feel that it was with great embarrasment and reservation. (Lucky for me ;)

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

I think his criteria has always been sex after the third date or earlier. ;-)

... in response to Excellent post.  I only have a comment o..., posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

My fiance responded to my ad and has never been in an agency.  She said she had no interest in going to one, that it wouldn't be for her.  Even after she had contacted Jacks Dnepro manager who asked her if she met me and it didn't work out, perhaps she might like to join their agency?  She told her no, I'm not interested, I am only interested in him!  She saw my ad, liked my photo and what it had to say and felt strongly she should learn more about me..

Some of the other women I met through my ad, same thing.  More than a few had never set foot in an agency (not that there are not some fine girls in agencies I met as well).
That's the only ad I had run and I would definitely do it again if I were still looking.

Just my experience FWIW..

... in response to I can say it's true Juio, at least for m..., posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

Oscar, thanks for your reasoned responses.  Yes, I understand that for each individual man and for each individual woman that may respond, there will always be unique circumstances.

However, despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements.

JR

... in response to Re: I can say it's true Juio, at least f..., posted by juio99 on Dec 17, 2002

JR/jui099/Leo you say, " despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements".

JR/juio99/Leo I quoted you 14 times in the post you are referring to. Every and every quote were YOUR exact words.

I say your chickensh1t response is your way of trying to get away from anwering my last question in which I was trying to help new guys understand the type of ad you ran, the words you used, number or words, when and where you placed ad, description of photo, length of time ad ran and cost of ad.

You say I put many words in your mouth that you never uttered. I say you must have screwed a few too many Russian s1uts and have contracted a sexually transmitted disease and it has effected your brain ala Al Capone!

Below are the 14 times I say I quoted you word for word, in which you are saying that at least some of these statements as not being YOUR words. Now is your chance to prove me wrong and you are right and that your mind is not slipping due to some bad stuff you got on one of your trips to look for a Russian bride (ha, ha). Now maybe you can see JR/juio99/Leo, there is something to be said about getting to really know these women and not putting a " three date and you put out or you are out of here " thinking that you live by.

Tell me, tell all JR/juio99/Leo, which of the 14 quoted statements below that I say you made, are you saying are incorrect?  

(1) the guys who are married to or are marrying gals from FSU are really losers because they can't get the gals from Asian and Latin areas. And those who aren't yet married are even bigger losers because they can't even attract the less than desirable gals from FSU.

(2) Jack states that they will attract ladies who never thought of this before and who are not on other sites. Jack has much more experience at this than I, but I don't quite see how this computes

(3) Given that many women in FSU seem to know someone who has married a westerner or who is at least corresponding with a westerner

(4) I find it difficult to believe most haven't at least given it some thought

(5) And if they have given it some thought, I would think they would be on some web site or agency list somewhere

(6) I only tried the ads once just because a friend of mine in Russia almost was going to place the ad without telling me anyway. Of the 15 or so responses that I got, 3 were from ladies who I had already seen on websites

(7) Again, because of Jack's much greater experience than myself, I am not actually disputing his claims re ads, but it just doesn't seem logical to me and was not borne out in my own personal experience

(8) Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria

(9) At least when we review ladies on websites, we can choose to make initial contact with those who meet some of our basic criteria

(10) One of the big problems with ads, in my estimation, is that there is a severe restriction on the number of words allowed

(11) Because of that, the guy can't come close to listing his criteria for the type of woman he would like to meet

(12) If some outfit would agree to publish ads with no word restrictions (and what's up with this restriction anyway, they can always just charge by the word) then that would be a big improvement

(13) However, regardless of what the guy states, he is still going to get responses from ladies who miss the criteria by a mile

(14) Sure, some guys get a kick out of opening mailbox to find a flood of letters, and it probably makes them feel good about themselves. But when you consider the time involved to wade through this, it is very inefficient use of time.

See JR/juio99/Leo, now your statement of "despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements" is proven to be another of your many harebrained, questionable statements and in fact is now proven to be a totally inaccurate statement on your part. In my opinion, so much for the credibility of  your "'general logic of your statements"'!

... in response to I think I will call you on this one JR/j..., posted by Jack on Dec 18, 2002

Here is one:

15 responses from a personal ad ran through out several cities of the FSU? And 15 replies is all you got?

... in response to Re: I think I will call you on this one ..., posted by juio99 on Dec 18, 2002

JR/juio99/Leo that is MY quote, my statement, not one of the 14 statements I quoted from YOU!!

Above you write this..."I only tried the ads once just because a friend of mine in Russia almost was going to place the ad without telling me anyway. Of the 15 or so responses that I got, 3 were from ladies who I had already seen on websites".

To which my reply was " 15 !!! 15 responses from a personal ad ran through out several cities of the FSU? And 15 replies is all you got? Well! I can see why now you have such a great dis-taste for personal ads! And 33.3% of your replies had been on the Internet!! Well, I am flabbergasted.

You write Oscar "despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements.

How many of the 14 statements I quoted from you are inaccurate?  NONE!

In my original post I mention "One good thing about guys running personal ads in newspapers and magazines throughout the FSU".  See JR/juio99/Leo, I am not talking about running one ad in one city!  I mention ads, with an s, and throughout the FSU. Again I ask you, are we talking apples to apples here, to which you have yet to reply. You respond back by saying, and again I quote from you, " Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria"  and " I only tried the ads once".  As I am referring to ads in my original post, and as you mention ads (not ad) twice, one would assume that you wrote ads, or an ad in multi-cities. But because of this un-certaintly as to how you ran your ads and the lack of success you claim from your ads, I mention this to you in my reply back to you " I don't know that we are talking about you running your personal ad in some real newspapers that were published in many cities of the FSU, cities and villages of 600 people, 1000 people, cities of 8000, 20,000, 90,000, 250,000 and 1 million people!"  

And I end my message to you with this " JjL, I would be most curious to hear about your experience with running a personal ad. Where did you run this ad, how long did the ad run, what did the ad say. How did you describe the type lady you were seeking? How many words did you use in your ad. Describe the type photo you included. Did you include a local address for these ladies to write to, or your address in America? Did you include a local phone number for these ladies to call or your e-mail address? What did you pay for the ad you ran? " "I think with the information you might be able to share, between the two of us we can hopefully give interested guys an idea as to the proper and improper ways of running an ad."

So how about it JR/juio99/Leo, you want to help these guys by telling them what doesn't work with personal ads, or that if a Russian lady doesn't put out by the third date you get rid of her?

... in response to Excellent post.  I only have a comment o..., posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

prior to the advent of the internet. I paid around $120 I think, I don't remember for sure. Well I didn't hear anything so I forgot about it. THEN I met my ex wife. Well after we were engaged one day I went to the postal suite to get my mail. There were about 6-8 letters waiting for me. I was shocked! Well I proceeded to read them & go through them. Some of the ladies were STUNNING! Some were very young (18 years) & one actually proposed on the first letter. I did NOT write any other them. I felt very bad because many wanted the pics back but I could not even undestand their addresses because of the handwriting. This continued for weeks! EVERY day anywhereh from 2 up to 12 letters! At first my then fiance was a little amused then after the letters continued & after seeing some VERY attractive ladies & some in lingerie she was NOT very happy. Anyways I always wondered what if? Well after our divorce (which was VERY amicable) she married an Albanian (YIKES!!! Even the FSU think of them as dirt! LOL!) she encouraged me to go to Urkaine or Russia. She actually went through my emails & found out I was writing a girls which REALLY pissed her off. But I guess after she realized we were over & I was going on the STRONGLY encouraged me. She actually wrote me after my 1st visit last month & asked me about my trip. I told her me & Marina were NOT engaged but still corresponding.
Anyways I'm thinking of placing an ad as well in Ukraine but am mulling it over. I remember one guy here writing that if you think you can meet girls by just walking out in the street you're out of your mind, well I WAS able to to do that. However it is much like cold call selling. Going to Ukraine did a lot for me in terms of my confidence. It was almost like the responses I get in Mexico. GREAT! I look forward to marrying a Ukrainian I just have to find the right one. I am just VERY curious as to what kind of response I would get now through an ad in the internet. If an ad in a catalog or whatever 9 years ago got THAT response I don't know about NOW. I think it would be VERY difficult to weed out the scams. Has anyone else done this LATELY?

... in response to I placed an ad 8-9 years ago..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Frank and others; Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria.  At least when we review ladies on websites, we can choose to make initial contact with those who meet some of our basic criteria.

One of the big problems with ads, in my estimation, is that there is a severe restriction on the number of words allowed.  Because of that, the guy can't come close to listing his criteria for the type of woman he would like to meet.  If some outfit would agree to publish ads with no word restrictions (and what's up with this restriction anyway, they can always just charge by the word) then that would be a big improvement.  However, regardless of what the guy states, he is still going to get responses from ladies who miss the criteria by a mile.

Sure, some guys get a kick out of opening mailbox to find a flood of letters, and it probably makes them feel good about themselves.  But when you consider the time involved to wade through this, it is very inefficient use of time.

JR

... in response to Another thing, posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

Agreed, you are going to get ads from some women who you feel do not at all relate to your criteria.  That is why you must be very specific.  Even so, if you say you are looking for a woman between 26 and 33, you will invariably get some letters from women 18 and 42!  BUT you are not looking for 100 women through this, just a very few specific women and these women are going to be interested in YOU or they would not have taken the time and expense to reply to you..

I have had 4 trips to the FSU and only used an ad this last trip.  I really liked the process, but some other things are also ery important in regards to making an ad successful.  One of the most important is having a LOCAL address and phone for them to respond to.  If they can call or drop by and get more info about you from someone in their own city, you will get a much better response.  Jack's Dnipro Manager (Galina) was getting calls from women on my ad even at 3 and 4AM in the morning before I got there! LOL!

I guess everyone likes the approach that happened to work for them..  I'm sure there are some guys that met their girl at a social and think it's a great approach too..

... in response to Re: Another thing, posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

how far in advance to going over do most feel is most effective?

... in response to I think I'll run an ad soon.., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Well, Jack suggested to me that it is best to do an ad about 3-4 months before you are going to go.  You will start writing some of those women and maybe start calling a few after a while.  Then you should run the ad again a couple of weeks before going.  Some will write to you but some will not have time and there will be letters waiting for you when you get there BUT, you MUST have a local person (like Galina) for the girls to call and drop photos and letters off too!  This is key in my opinion..

And you were the guy who only wanted to meet ONE woman!  I think we have created a monster now! LOL!

... in response to Re: I think I'll run an ad soon.., posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

yes I only went over to see one lady & had a blast for 4 days then she disappeared. Well I had so many interested & had gone with the attitude that IF it didn't work out I WOULD see other women. I DID! I'm still writing the same girl as she surfaced later but strange things had happened so I VERY tentative at this point. Anyways I DIDn"T tell her I saw others. Even the translator freaked out because her & her boyfriend took me to a club & I had women after me like crazy. Well I settled for a nice brunnette who practically almost raped me on the floor. Well it's not rape if you go along right!? LOL!!! Well I had a blast to say the least. Then they just kept coming man. I didn't NEED an agency. But since I was in Kiev & Galina was my guide I figured why not? Well I DIDN"T regret that either I me the Shakira look alike & look forward to dancing the tango with her. Man you gotta improvise, adapt, & overcome instead of feeling sorry for yourself. I had a blast! Even in dreaded Lugansk.

... in response to I roll with the punches man! LOL!..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Well done Frank O!!

You must have cut a bit of a dash over there with your long hair and leather. LOL!

During my travels through Europe when I was younger, to begin I couldn't understand why suddenly I became so much more attractive to the girls in Cologne, Basle and Milan than the girls back home in London.

It's the allure of the exotic!! Travel more and make the most of it.

... in response to The allure of the exotic......., posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

Yeah! I just got a letter from Galina & I had asked her about me possibly moving over there during my search (I REALLY loved Ukraine!) & she said since I looked different & was a REAL Latino that I could probably find work easily as a musician or music teacher. Of course the pay is my biggest consideration. Anyways she said that they like "spice" so there WOULD be work. Yeah!, I really ug the attention over. People REALLY stared. Pretty strange but when I was coming back on KLM there was a band that was LEAVING Kiev who had been there on a tour or something. They were NOBODY'S but were talking about how their manager was able to find them work BECAUSE they were foreigners.

... in response to Re: The allure of the exotic......., posted by Frank O on Dec 17, 2002

An extended stay and working in Ukraine would certainly beat any other method I've seen suggested around here. You'd get to see the quarry in their natural environment and get some usefull insight into the slavic mind.

Remember you won't NEED to earn the same kind of dollars as you do now. Depends how much you can rough it like the Ukrainians have to. Being a musician, you have a skill to take anywhere. Your right about being a foriegn musician. or rather British and Americans excel in this all over the world. I have some old school mates who had some success during the Punk thing in the seventies, they are still touring places such as St.Pete, Moscow, Helsinki and Iceland. When everybody here has all but forgotton about them.

BTW, here's my experience of the music biz in Ukraine.

On my first trip to Kiev we stopped and listened to a busker
near Kreshatik, an old man playing classical guitar, we stood and listened to him play for maybe 15 minutes, as I do appreciate the finger-picking style. We began talking with my girl translating, and this old guy had been a pro all his life and now was out nearly every day topping-up his pension and he offered me to play some, now I'm not a naturaly gifted musician and really must have the music to read, so I quickly exhausted my repartoir of Classical Gas and Moonlight Sonata and finished with Stairway to Heaven that one got the younger people to actualy stop and listen and netted 4 grivna for the old boy.

... in response to Re: Re: The allure of the exotic......., posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

.

... in response to UK Subs nt, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 19, 2002

probably my favorite guit-man of the genre.

Do you know what he did after he left the Subs? It was in '82, if memory serves me correctly.

Charlie 'scored' me some beer when I was 16. LOL Wasn't he originally from Texas?

Ooh la la, there's a party in P...

... in response to Very interesting. Nicky Garratt rocked....., posted by BURKE89 on Dec 20, 2002

but American for sure. I think got started with other bands after the Subs and runs a record label now.

Plenty of Americans began arriving in London about 75-76 and getting involved in that music and lifestyle and getting re-exported. New Yorkers and Chicago-ians? seem mostly.

... in response to Don't know where from, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 21, 2002

Pordzhik,

Were you a fan of my youthful favorites? For example: S.L.F., The Buzzcocks, The Damned, The Jam, Eater, The Adverts, Upstarts and, of course Joe & Paul - sans Mick ( he did compose some grand pop tunes's, however, eh?).

N.Y. and L.A. (Chicago was never a factor), for the the most part, adapted ( I'm not sure of imports, to the U.K.) against the "$1,000,000 meditation rug's" ala- Mr. Clampton" et all.

My English is wretched; yet try Chicagoans. A sound portion of my family is from there (Chicago).

Merry Christmas,

Vaughn

... in response to Re: Re: The allure of the exotic......., posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

Well, classical is NOT my bag though I guess I COULD brush up. I tend to stick to what I'm good at. I come from the 80's scene like Van Halen, Steve Vai, Randy Rhoads etc. The whole guitar soloist thing is what I'm good at. Lately I've been doing a LOT of Shakira, Mana, Santana etc. I'm really good at that as well. The Shakira I love really. A lot more rhythm playing & not as much soloing. I don't know I'll see what happens. I'd like to check out the hot guitarists in Kiev & see what I'm up against.

... in response to Re: Another thing, posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

Galina is GREAT!!!! I had a blast with her. She showed me around town & we hung out quite a bit. I really enjoyed my time with her. She even took me to another ladies marriage agency so I could hook up with other girls. I really was NOT interested but I'm glad I went because I went out with this chick that looked like Shakira! LOL!! The manager of the agency liked me & how I looked (long hair, harley boots, leather pants, silk shirt, leather jacket etc) & said she had the PERFECT girl for me. I was like no I don't think so...till I saw the pic! LOL!!! Then I was like "Yes, I must meet this young lady!". I met her after 11:00 PM when she got out of work. We had a great time & I'll be seeing her on my next visit. She was NOT what I would have looked for in a girl but she was VERY nice.
Anyways I think Galina is great & we still keep in touch weekly. I can't wait to go back. I promised her a bottle of Tequila next time I go back!

... in response to no disrespect mean AT ALL but Galina is ..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

She really cares about you and goes way above and beyond the call of duty (like bringing you a locksmith at 2 AM 'cause you sheared off your key in one of those "three lock box" doors :)

BTW, I think that she's the Kyiv Mgr. now. Poor girl, I sure wouldn't want the job of babysitting us stupid Americanyuts. She does it so well (with a smile).

... in response to Yeah, Galina ROCKS, posted by Rags on Dec 17, 2002

Yah I remember the time I was there she had been up over 24 hrs in a row. What a trooper!

... in response to no disrespect mean AT ALL but Galina is ..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Yep, Galina was very helpful to me as well.  Since she met my girl through my ad, they have become great friends and she has helped my girl in many ways..

The big difference is that to me Galina does not just do this for a paycheck, she honesly cares about the people she is trying to help and I think it shows..

... in response to Re: no disrespect mean AT ALL but Galina..., posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

pretty funny I was on St. Andrews descent & was looking for t shirts. Well there was one that had Lenis throwing the finger with the words "F*** Revolution!" written on it. I liked it. Well she told me that gesture (the finger) was new to them. That it only came around within the last say 2-5 years. Well she saw it in a movie & started using it. She was telling about a client of hers who is now a friend who she was talking to & while talking she was flicking him the bird!@#$ So anyways the guy is freaking out like "what the heck is this woman doing?!" LOL!!! Well he finally asks her & she tells him she saw this in a movie. Well he explains what it meant & they both had a laught! LOL! Man I had a great time with her. Anyways I bought another shirt one with a KGB agent on it reading a Playboy magazine with a bottle of vodka which says "I work for the KGB" & the flip side says "trust no one!".
Yes she really cares about the client unlike some other agencies I worked with while over there. She is great I can't say enough about her.

... in response to agreed...did she flick you the bird whil..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

First week mine was here in England, we were shopping and the assistant didn't understand her accent, so my wife put up two fingers to indicate two. The assistants face was a picture! I was helpless.

... in response to Reverse Churchill, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

Pretty funny man!!! Oh I've just GOT to buy that shirt next time I go!

... in response to Another thing, posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

I figure like you said charge by the word & they'll make they're money. If anything they'll make MORE money. Oh well.
I agree also because MOST of the letters I got did NOT match AT ALL to what I was looking for. For example I do NOT like blondes. I had a lot of blondes writing me. I guess that's nitpicking but given a choice between a blonde & a brunnette 9 out of 10 times I'll go with the blonde. That's JUST the physical what about the other stuff...dang you can REALLY eliminate of lot of them right off the bat. They say they don't smoke then they show up & they're a pack a day smokers etc. Many are NOT what they say in letters. That further complicates things.

... in response to Another thing, posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

JR - What more can you ask for in a personal advertisement other than: intelligent, honest, sincere, loyal, (height range, age) beautiful, (thin, shapely, athletic) (eye color?) etc. for a girl anyway???

... in response to Re: Another thing, posted by hockeybrain on Dec 16, 2002

Well, it gets to be more difficult than you might think.  I just checked my info re my ad and it was limited to 30 words.  For me the 30 words included some about me and listed my requirments for the gal.  But I couldn't come close to getting even the basics in.  Also the 30 words included e-mail address.  I also specified they must be able to communicate in English without intrepreter.  This ad was only in one newpaper that was distributed in SPb.  But even so, I wanted to avoid receiving any replies from gals outside the SPb area so that I would not waste their time, so I had to state that also.

So why don't you give it a whirl and see what you can come up with in 30 words by including the above about English and living in SPb area along with something about yourself and several basic requirements for the gal.  :-))  Let us know how you fared.

As Oscar stated, even when you lay out the basics, some ladies will not pay any attention.  For example, I require above 5 feet 4 inches and slender.  Obviously I couldn't include a chart showing max weight for every height.  The best I could do was say:  Slender, min height of 5 feet 4 and max weight of 140 regardless of height (I translated these to metric).  So I get one reply from a gal who never would exactly tell me the stats.  She looked decent and had a lot going re education and professional job, so I played along.  Finally, when I got to SPb I gave her a phone call and she admitted that she was 5 feet 4 and weighed 140.  I said:  "That is not even close to slender."  She said:  "I met your min re height and am not over your max for weight."  Needless to say, I did not meet with her.

Another lady who lived a day away from SPb also wrote me, ignoring my statement about location.  I guess a family member from SPb had told her about my ad in SPb newpaper.  I wrote her a very nice reply saying we could not meet because I would only be in SPb.  She wrote back really chewing me out about true love not being bounded by locations etc.

JR

... in response to Re: Re: Another thing, posted by juio99 on Dec 17, 2002

JR - soon I will be placing advertisements with the help of your good friend.  I am sorry you had bad luck advertising.  The advertisement I devised was within the limits and said what I wanted - but I did not include an English requirement.  In any event, I'll let you know how they turn out for me.  I have a feeling it is alot about where and when you place the advertisement.  One other thing - when you place an advertisement in the future do not worry about the weight.  Just put the height.  Most girls in the FSU under 40 are thin.  Respond to the girls who send back pictures you are attracted to.  Otherwise........next seems the best option.

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

for your clear and lucid POV.

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

meeting more than 1 girl. I am one of those that had trouble writing to more than 1 girl. I was writing several & narrowed it down to "the one". Well to cover my a$_ I wrote Jack JUST IN CASE things did NOT go well. Well I had 4 great days then she disappeared for whatever reason. HOWEVER I had NO shortage of women over there. I even met 2 through Jack on my final day in Kiev (I was in Lugansk for 2 weeks). I do NOT regreat my approach however I was true to myself. By the way the guides/interpretors, agencies, & flats Jack can set up for us are GREAT! I will use them whenever I travel to Urkaine. Guys, you just have to take care of youselves. By the way I did NOT have sex with any girls on my trip though there were 2 opportunities (I saw a total of 6 girls). What Jack said about "poor girls" with TV's, VCR's, microwaves etc is true. The AVERAGE person can't afford such luxuries so those are DEAD GIVEAWAYS. Anyways I'm rambling now.

... in response to Great post I agree about...., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

I don't know about Ukraine but in Russia it seemed to be common to have TVs, VCRs and some sort of CD player. Microwaves weren't common though. Personal computers in the home were also very rare but I do know a few people who have one. I only know two people who had home internet access. Granted this is only based on my visiting about 10 apartments with friends and the ones that I wrote to. Most of the Russians I know don't have much money but they do have many of the comforts that I do in my home.

... in response to Re: Great post I agree about...., posted by Zink on Dec 16, 2002

Most of the people I'm talking about were from Lugansk as I only spent 1 full day in Kiev. In Lugansk even cd players were considered a luxury. Much less all the other stuff. I have a friend who is getting scammed by a girl (refuses to see this kind of like Dave) & was told they were having "financial problems" however on his next trip they had not one but TWO Color tv's, a new fridge & stove! Wow, I'd like to have financial "problems' where I could actually prosper! Anyways in Lugansk most people did not have such things at least not the ones I met. My lady did not even have HOT water where she lived or a phone or a cd player.

... in response to Re: Re: Great post I agree about...., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Actually I think phones are rarer than TVs. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I've never been to Lugansk(or anywhere else in Ukraine) and people tell me that Ukrainians have less money than Russians. But I've yet to meet any Russians who don't at least have a TV and a radio. I wouldn't call it a red flag if they have these things. Now if they've got a car, computer, stereo system and are still begging for money... could be trying to pull something. Just my opinion.

... in response to Re: Great post I agree about...., posted by Zink on Dec 16, 2002

I also found microwaves to be rare, even in St. Petersburg.  A couple of ladies told me they were thought of as being 'unsafe' because of the rays.  Don't know how widespread that view is, as I never talked about it with more than 3-4 people.

Some of the apartment rentals that cater to westerners do have microwaves, but the ladies still look at them with suspicion.  One insisted on leaving the room when I used it.

JR

... in response to Microwaves, posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

n/t

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

I like this idea alot!
Can you let us know which publications worked for you?
I have a friend in Nizhniy novgorod. Maybe i can have her help me place my ad.
Thanks Jack,
going to your site now!

... in response to how bout a list of the publications to p..., posted by deatchef on Dec 16, 2002

deatchef I am referring to local newspapers.

Right now the central and eastern portion of Ukraine produces pretty good results. We have a pretty good deal with one editor in this region who owns several newspapers so the guys get pretty good coverage. This is a region that covers from the south eastern outskirts of Kiev, not Kiev it's self but the far south-eastern outskirts of Kiev to Cherkassy, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhya, Mariupol. In addition to these cities you have many, many small cities and villiages in between. In some of these cities you have a weekly newspaper published but most cities have at least two weekly publications with the bigger cities having publications three and four times a week.

You have another fairly good region, the far east of Ukraine which includes Kharkov and Lugansk and all the surrounding cities and those in-between.

The Odessa, Nikolaev, Kherson region can also produce (it is the region in which I found my bride).

You might also consider the Novosibersk/Omsk region as well the Volgograd/ Volzhsky and Rostov/Sochi area's.

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

Good essay on subject. I think that you just got a new customer!

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002


Thanks for taking the time to respond as I know that this information will be helpful to those who are now begining their "Quest" as well as those who are considering the possibilities.

I totally agree with your opinion on the placement of a personal ad getting more responses from sincere ladies. There is also wisdom in what you say about finding a woman who is searching for a good man not a change in venue.

I wish that I had known then, what I know now. It was all good, but get when you get it right it's incredible!

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

N/T

... in response to Answering a few questions, posted by Jack on Dec 15, 2002

[This message has been edited by Cold Warrior]

Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent piece of advice. BTW my plans for RW are on the hold for the moment but I'll get back to you as soon as I reactivate.

Thanks again