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Well what used to be happen a couple of times a month is now only happening every couple of months. I just got my latest letter from mooo-mooo herself, Cow Claire. I stopped writing her back over a year ago but I guess she holds me in such high esteem, she wants to stay in contact with me anyway. I am truely honored.

As we all need a break from Super Nutt, DSD, I thought I would share my latest letter from mooo-mooo with everyone. Oh, by the way, notice cow claire's e-mail address.

From: "claire maura" married_to_a_real_man@nospam.com
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:47 PM

Subject: Scraping the Bottom of the barrel again Jack?

You really are something Jack and if you were in any
other business but the lonely hearts business you
wouldn't last a week.
I know about your renting out telephone booths BTW.

Looks like things over on Planet Loser is
falling apart.

One loser after another is being taken to the cleaners
and the REAL REASON why RW are interested in American
LOSER men is starting to sink into the thick skulls of
these dorks.

You never miss a trick to try and boost the moral of
the losers now do you.

I'm still not convinced you and Bowel Movement are two
different people either.

I communicate with quite a few of the old PL gang and
it's really interesting to hear what some of them
REALLY think of you.

The truth is Jack that you are a loser and as any wimp
male loser knows, he has to associate with other
losers worse off than he is in order to feel good
about himself.

This is the key to your psyche Jack and it's very
important that you realize this.

Men who have low self esteem, like you and your PL
gang, love to see someone else in a worse position
than they are. This is why you are such a hero to
those losers when the truth is that in real life
society considers you a social failure and a loser.

Your "Ladies Seeking Older Men" page says it all.

What it should say is "Worn out Whores seeking a meal
Ticket" and I apologize to the real sincere whores out
there for associating them with a collection of
opportunist scammers like one can find on your site.

Yea Jack, you provide endless entertainment for me,
but I keep a low profile on PL. I've posted maybe 3
times just to let you know I am watching, but Patrick
isn't smart enough to figure it out and you certainly
aren't that's for certain.

So you keep on dancing Jack while the rest of us keep
laughing because reading and posting on PL is far more
entertaining than popping bon-bons and watching
Opera.....

Claire.

BTW Merry Christmas.

Taking the wife to KFC for the holiday dinner?

When I can get time I will tell you guys the real true life adventure as to how Claire got caught up in the Russian bride business, it's a fasinating story. I think it was about three years ago this month. A few of you might remember about the new guy posting who was going to a New Years Eve party in St. Petersburg.

Ok, mooo-mooo (and if you ever saw Claire you would know why we call her mooo-mooo) says she is posting on P-L. I am offering $10 to the first who can correctly identify cow claire.  

... in response to " On the lighter side ", posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

After reading the bent that this thread took, I think it should be retitled from "On the lighter side" to "On the darker side"!  These are all very good, honest, & blunt posts.  I thank you all for the brain jog this morning... worked better than caffeine.  While I am now too awake to go back to bed, I DO feel like crawling under it and hiding from the rest of the day!
Bob

... in response to " On the lighter side ", posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

I just can't picture Claire as a slim attractive woman.  Gotta be a cow with a mental disability.  I am starting to wax nostalgic about her in the last couple of weeks.  She was a more benign troll than what we have now.

... in response to " On the lighter side ", posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

Jack,
You always said to ignore the trolls and they would go away.  But for some odd reason, you won't let Claire go.  I'm sure by now she realizes that she can post messages on PL through you.  It doesn't seem like she even has any agenda, other than to be goofy.  I am sure she really gets a kick out of it to see her email posted on PL by you, but other than to feed her ego, it serves no real purpose.

... in response to Who really cares?, posted by Jeff on Dec 17, 2002

Yea, your right.

... in response to " On the lighter side ", posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

Jack.

As my internet handle implys I have been "watching" and reading this board for now going on two years. I have e mailed you directly each time getting ready to place advertisements or was going to book a tour.I have been to Russia three times, involved with one woman and now in the K1 process with that same woman. It is my deepest sadness that I have found out that frankly, she is almost a pathological liar. I understand that the K1 will expire by itself and I will let it do so. While I have wasted two precious years of my life I have learned much from her and even more from reading this board.

I will start over in the new year and will start with a large newspaper advertisement campaign. I hope that you wil be able to help me with it along with the services I will need in Russia.

But to the point.Your last essay on the changes in the introduction business in the FSU was factual and impressive.You have shown a great deal of expert knowledge on the subject.

Unfortuntly, it seems that from time to time that you need to get silly and un-professional with these personal attacks on some very sick people that attacks you, your business or questions the people on this board.I have always assumed that these people (Claire,Drew,DavidSD) were very sad and pathetic. In need of psychological help. As a professional person that is trying to improve the standards of the industry, perhaps it would serve you and your business,the industry as a whole, if you would just ignore these very sad people.

I suspect that you lose business and respect for your knowledge when you do this.I know that a few time I was getting ready to order services from you and one of these incidents happens.As a result I canceled the thought and order. I know that by writing a few people from this board and others the same thing has happened to other people intent on using your services.

Just some advice from another businessman!

Watcher

... in response to Re: " On the lighter side ", posted by Watcher on Dec 16, 2002

What happened!! You start a thread, and just disappear?

Got your e-mail. I guess if I had of looked hard at your profile I might have been able to figure it out.

LP is right, call and write the INS and advise them that you are with-drawing your petition. It can only make it easier for you if/when you re-apply.

... in response to Hey watcher!, posted by Jack on Dec 18, 2002

Jack.

Was away on some family business.  Not a matter of IF... and the WHEN is the start of the New Year.....Made the same decision you made a few years ago before your journey began.Already gathering a few addresses and will supplement them with whatever I get from the newspaper ads.Then I will start with the letter writing. I can do three trips in 2003 . Also taking the time to seriously learn the language this year.

Watcher

PS. Thanks! The paperwork is in the mail.

... in response to Re: " On the lighter side ", posted by Watcher on Dec 16, 2002

...."pathological liar"....Yeah, whats up with that anyway? My experience was the majority of FSU girls I dealt with were basically incapabale of telling the truth, much worse than the domestic women I've dealt with. That really turned me off. And those were the ones I caught, made me wonder about the rest of them. Of course, there were some exceptions. (Or maybe they were just better at it, I dunno. Thats the problem.)

And 100% of the ones I remain in friendly contact with (and who realize the ball is no longer in play with me) have all confessed how differently  they operate when the ball *is* in play. What I've learned from them has been a real eyeopener, I tell ya. With all the recent stories of late (David, Quasi, yourself, along with those culled from the other forums, etc), I hope guys are looking at the big picture and realizing the risks are even much greater than is generally perceived. At least using the methods many are employing. Makes one wonder about the blowups we don't hear about. (In fact, it's likely the majority of men who suffer these problems do so in silence.)

Btw, even though your K1 will expire you should submit a letter to the embassy cancelling it or it could come back to haunt you if you file for another one down the road.

... in response to I hear ya....., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

Hey jetjock,  how is life?  Have been reading and perhaps learning, for here I go again,  afew trips in the making
or in the dreaming.    Soon as the holidays are over...................

Here is something for you and everyone on the board,  to make a few bucks.
A stock call   GIB on the NYSX.   Should a guy invest a grand now, he will have, between, 16 and 32 grands,
within the next 3-5 years.
E-mail me, old buddy, will explain further.
Take care.

... in response to Re: I hear ya....., posted by micha1 on Dec 17, 2002

.....Life is good. The pukes who operate the line are killin us and the self loading cargo has less class every day, but what's a guy to do? lol, at least I can shoot them now if they give me any grief.

I'm gonna take stock tips from a guy who lives in a country where they only have monopoly money? Sure. Besides, that stock symbol is bad mojo for me. Only 16 to 32K max in 5 years?? Come on, you know I spend that much every month on chocolate bars and nylon stockings ;-)

... in response to I hear ya....., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

Whereas I will often tell a white lie to save myself or someone embarassment, or even tell a dirty great whopper to get myself out of trouble. My Ukrainian wife absolutly will not lie at all! She will withold the truth or refuse to answer.

Sometimes I wonder if I'd prefer the lie? As maybe I'd see through it.

... in response to White lies and whoppers, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

Does she have a sister?

Steve

... in response to I hear ya....., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

My very very dear freind asked me, "are you sure?" I smiled and resonded,"were you sure the last 4 times?". So women are women and men are men. There are certain types of men who are actaully proceeding with this Mail Order Bride thing-Men who have not 'found' what they need at home. There are certain types of women willing to leave their homeland for a pipe dream. But to say that all AM or RW are of any type, I feel is irresponsible at best. I was lucky to meet most of my Eastern Eurpopean connections in a University setting. So, most all were highly educated and highly motivated. I have a biased view. I am sure if the only AM I met were the ones who travel abroad to find a wife-my view of Americans, especially men, would not be so favorable-I may even call them all liars!!!
Joe

... in response to When I married my Russian Bride..., posted by yoe on Dec 17, 2002

I don't have the dating experience that some guys do but I know a few Russians both here and there. I wouldn't say that they lie more than the people in North America that I know. If anything they lie to themselves less than we do. But they are very determined people who are willing to do what it takes to get what they want. If it's a man or a life in another country that they want, then they will do what is neccessary. If that means fooling a helpless foreigner they'll do it. I have noticed that Russians are more extreme in their emotions. Here we just don't care enough to get excited about much. Over there I met people who would do absolutely anything for a friend or do absolutely anything to an enemy.

As for what LP said he could be right about those girls. After all they were after something. But if you meet people outside of the MOB pursuit I think that attitude would be less prevelant. I'm always surprised at how many people go over there and only meet people involved in the MOB industry somehow. I went and lived as a Russian and met people just to be friends, both men and women. Course I was always a little more interested in meeting the girls.

... in response to My take on this, posted by Zink on Dec 17, 2002

...only talking about those involved in MOB. The other FSU people I know are in general very nice folks. But remember that there is some inherent mistrust instilled in them from the Soveit regime. White lies are nothing to them and it's not much of a jump to tell bigger ones when they want something. (Which is all the time. ;-)

I did not mean to generalize, this is all only my personal experience. I was refering to my experiences with those seeking a mate abroad and those I remain in contact with. Some of them are dealing with other A/M now (lol, maybe some of you) and with what they've told me I can only come to one conclusion: The feelings they express are inflated. Not malicious, only inflated. Since many do not speak English well that makes sense to me. I fail to see how anyone can develop a truely meaningful relationship over a long distance with limited personal contact and using translation but thats just my opinion. Then being forced by the Gummint to marry such a person quickly, well, I guess thats just crazier than I am.

Speaking generally now, the bottom line to me is risk/reward or cost benefit analysis. For the risks involved, the rewards are pushing the limit for me, especially when the same can be had at home with less risk (and if we remove some variables, less effort.) Anyone who says all relations are a crap shoot is missing the point completely. Now understand, I'm speaking more of the odds of success vrs the risk, not the quality of success if achieved. Depending on how badly a guy wants that reward will drive his assesstment (and acceptance) of the risks. That's been demonstrated time and again, and not only in this business. But the POB is an added facter that causes men to wish for the best and ignore the sometimes blatant reality of their situation. Witness Davey...

I was only pointing out that there seems to be a rash of problems lately, or more are being fessed up (which is what I suspect). Anyone watching on the sidelines would be foolish to blow it off. After all, if every failure were openly reported I think there would be a completely different outlook taken by MOB men. (lol, than again I could be wrong. The "it won't happen to me" thing is pretty potent stuff.) Then there will always be dreamers and risk takers no matter what the odds, I don't fall into this group. To each his own I guess. Life has taught me success comes from planning, knowledge and proper risk analysis/management. In the end, I feel the odds in this game pretty much suck. Or at least aren't worth the risks to me personally. Of course, like Yoey, I'm a little biased. It's obviously different for others who will readily accept the risks for a variety of reasons, some downright strange. No problem, if you can accept the time, it's ok to do the crime. That's my opinion (or as Robo would say...;-) and I'm stickin to it.

You sure be 100% right about R/W and their emotional swings, when they're good they're very good. Frankly, I miss that a little at times. Of course when they're bad.....

... in response to I was...., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

n/t

... in response to I was...., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

I do feel that social circumstance has created somewhat of a dochotomy in the RW. I do believe we can generalize-to a point. And most of all I agree that for the type of guys that go over seas to get a wife, to go over seas to get a wife is the purest form of Russian Roulette to date. If they have been unsuccessful here and are going just for a wife-I put my money on the shark every day.
For me-I had no fantasy about finding my dream bride. Actaully my goal was just to find a partner in crime. My wife has always known that we are to have common goal and work together to have more that we could have individually-synchronized if you will. She also knows that she is free to go anytime she wishes and I will not 'send her back' as many say.
One bad thing did happen though. I was not expecting and it had not happened in many many years. It could have been the death of me..............I fell in love with my wife....
So I cannot say anything but expect nothing but be ready for anything!
Joe

... in response to I was...., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

When they're bad they leave scars. I know. I've been there. The physical scars are easy to deal with, it's the ones we don't see that give us trouble. I'm with you on the gummint thing too. In Canada we don't even have a fiance visa anymore. How's that for sensible? Now the woman has to marry me before she can even see my home! That's a set up for disaster in my opinion. I've never met a more secretive group than Russians. They don't lie but you rarely get told the whole story.

I'm still not convinced that there are more risks involved in this. I just think that more people ignore the warning signs when it's an intercultural thing. It is more difficult, no doubt. But really what can RWs do to us that AWs(or CWs) can't? The risks are the same, it just takes longer to read what's really going on.

I actually understand and agree with most of your point of view. I'm just trying to balance it a little. I have a pretty low opinion of the human race in general but I know there are a few good ones. I've seen some of the worst that this country has to offer. I'm not a strong believer in the "Golden USA", or Canada in my case, where all is happy, warm and fuzzy.

And as far as dear Davey. I wouldn't blame Russia for any of his problems. I think they were there long before his first trip east.

... in response to Re: I was...., posted by Zink on Dec 17, 2002

...we understand each other. It's true that they can cause only slightly more grief than a domestic chick if it goes Tango Uniform. But I'm talking about the chances of it going sour in the first place. I just can't believe that: 1) A long distance cross cultural relationship with a language barrier and 2) limited time together before marriage, holds the same chance of success as one developed over time in a common culture. One thats more under the control of the participants.

It's true that the people involved make a difference, I can't deny that. But all else being equal, it's only common sense that the odds of success would seem less. (Forget for a moment the price to pay for failure.) If one could get most of what he wants at home why would one stack the odds like that? And if one feels he *can't* get it at home, why would one enter this fray the way most men do? Me thinks POB, plain and simply. And POB is potent enough for a "normal" guy, imagine it for the socially challenged. And if it does go sour there is the greater sense of frustration that might occur because of all the extra one went through to get it abroad. (Again, look at Davey for both examples).

Risk verus reward. I'm just amazed at how some guys approach it. I understand their motivation, I just don't understand how all the rational thought in dealing with it can be discarded. Especialy if it's looked at closely. Knowledge may be power, but sometimes it's better to be in the dark I suppose. Still, what one can't see (or won't see) *will* hurt one in these cases. And the hurt can be plenty big....

Yo each his own, we all have the right to make our own beds as we see fit as long as we're willing to lie in them. Sorry you got bent in the past, if anyone deserves a break it oughta be you. Seems to me at least you've demonstrated some wits during your pursuit.

... in response to I think..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

You make some good points that I can't argue with :

(Long distance) + (Limited Time Together) + (POB) = High Risk .

Add in a few more factors ( such as cross-cultural relationship , language barriers , etc...) to the left side of the equation ; and yes , you're pushing the envelope . And for some of us , the 'It Can't Happen to Me' factor is just as strong as the 'POB' factor . I think in some cases , the 'It Can't Happen to Me ' and 'POB' variables are so strong that they prevent an accurate or realistic ( to use your words ) risk assessment / risk management . We all have our own reasons ( or rationalizations ) for our assessments and acceptance of these risks ; but for those who are ' socially / emotionally challenged ' , maybe the 'POB' and 'It Can't Happen to Me ' factors are going to outweigh or distort any perceived risk assessment / management abilities ...just a guess....

 

... in response to I think..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

"To each his own, we all have the right to make our own beds as we see fit as long as we're willing to lie in them." That about sums up my views on life. Do what you want but don't come crying to momma when it didn't work. I did get burnt. And I walked into it with my eyes open. I still miss my first RW very much. I had more fun with her than I ever did with anyone else. But if we had moved in together one of us would probably have been killed. Most likely me because she was more vindictive than I am.

Some people figured I was in huge trouble just by travelling to Russia. I looked at it this way...
What is the worst that could happen?
1. I could lose my money. No big deal because I can always earn more.
2. I could lose my heart. I've lived alone so long I figured it was worth the risk. And heartaches will heal.
3. I could lose my life. I've nearly died more times than I want to think about. Sometimes it was because my stupidity and sometimes it wasn't. I know the reaper will catch me some day and I'd like to live a little before he does.

But that said if I had any clue about what I was really getting myself into I don't know if I would've have balls enough. Ignorance is bliss. I learned enough the first time that I'm happily muddling along again. I went to Russia because the girls there actually wanted to get to know me. I didn't question their motives at first. I knew part of it was the fun of writing to a foriegner.

I still think that it's the people involved that make the risks, not the situation itself. For those guys that are lacking in certain social skills, they'll have trouble wherever they are. But it is very easy to get wrapped up in the mystery and fun of an international affair. Better men than me have made mistakes because of women. "POB" is very powerful. I've felt it a couple of times myself. I think I've overcome it but maybe I'm just fooling myself.

I think more people should look into the internal aspects of the relationship than the external. By that I mean question yourself. Who am I? What do I want and need? What kind of man am I? And then ask of the lady. What kind of woman is she? What are her real reasons for being with me? Why do I want to be with her? Are we compatible? Can we communicate? To me these are more important questions than where she lives, or how she will like my country. "Know yourself and know your enemy and the battle will be won".

Ah well, LP, you can't protect a person from themselves. Smart people often make dumb mistakes. Especially when women are involved. All part of being a man.

... in response to Re: I think..., posted by Zink on Dec 17, 2002

I believe a man who does not at least attempt a dream should lie down for the eternal sleep.
I constantly am reminded of my many 'ideas' and 'projects'. Mostly by people who have tried nothing at all. My greatest 'failures' are more successful than many people's greatest success. So I will alwaus say go for it-but be man enough to take it on the chin. Don't do a Trent Lott ...hahahahaha. Can you believe that guy?
Good Luck and Good Post
Joe

... in response to carpe diem ma frere!, posted by yoe on Dec 18, 2002

I don't know who Trent Lott is. But otherwise I agree with you. You never know what'll happen until you try. And as long as your still able to dust yourself off and get back up you haven't failed. The only real failure is to never make the attempt.

... in response to Re: carpe diem ma frere!, posted by Zink on Dec 18, 2002

"I don't know who Trent Lott is."

He's a man immersed in trying out a shoe leather diet.  It's not really a question of whether he will get thinner or not --that is already happening!  The real questions are: (1) How "light" will he finally get?  & (2) Will he choke to death on the laces in the process?

Bob

... in response to I think..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

LP,
You said, "I just can't believe that: 1) A long distance cross cultural relationship with a language barrier and 2) limited time together before marriage, holds the same chance of success as one developed over time in a common culture."
-
I think too much is made of the "cross cultural" thing.  Most guys going over are of European background and there really isn't too drastic a difference.  Quirks and oddities usually based on economics, yes, but not huge differences.  The language barrier is a HUGE deal though.  Any guy that doesn't have a common language with his woman is toast.  The time limit is also a HUGE deal in my opinion.  As I have said in the past, the biggest hurdle to overcome is motivation.  What is the motivation of the guy and the girl?  If the majority of the AM are motivated to fill the wife vacancy and the majority of he RW are motivated to unass the FSU, you have a disaster waiting to happen.  Now add a language barrier, some cultural differences and a restriction on time together, it is a wonder that ANY of the marriages work out.
-
Lest someone think that I am a hypocrite, I think that RW are the sh!t.  The AM have to have their sh!t together before going over and not be so damn desperate.  Meet em, enjoy em, get to know em, get to know em well and then maybe fall in love (with no skipped steps).
KenC

... in response to I think..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

LP: "But I'm talking about the chances of it going sour in the first place. I just can't believe that: 1) A long distance cross cultural relationship with a language barrier and 2) limited time together before marriage, holds the same chance of success as one developed over time in a common culture. One thats more under the control of the participants. "

LP you left out one of the nails (I know you did not forget) that can seal the coffin. And, I think this one is the icing on the cake so to speak. And, if I like this kind of icing, I think many are right there with me.

Many guys expect to come back with younger and more beautiful than they can attract at home. Obviously the greater the discrepancy the greater the risk. So, in addition to the risk factors mentioned that are inherent to this venue guys actually choose to make their odds worse by going for what beauty/youth the market will bare. But, once these fine ladies are here, the carrot is no longer in play like it was in the courting phase and after two years it is absent.

These women become aware that they compete with the AW very well for men's attention. They realize that they can attract younger and more successful then they settled for. In this sense, there is a race against time --- for the relationship to evolve into true love/respect before the bell strikes midnight.

But heck, why would a guy do this if he did not come back with something better?

... in response to My take on this, posted by Zink on Dec 17, 2002

or is that hookers?
:)
Joe
there is no universal formula here. But, there are cultural similarities.
Joe

... in response to I always say..........Sleep with dogs yo..., posted by yoe on Dec 17, 2002

...simply poking at me Yoey, because you do these women I speak of a great disservice.

Every one of them comes to me randomly, I have never been to a social nor used an agency. From day one I have used personal ads, back before it was fashionable to do so. I've always specified a certain level of English and computer access at home. That and a few I met on ICQ, where those attributes were automatically taken care off.

Every one of these women are nice people. *If* they lived here and *if* I could develop a realtion with them at my pace without the INS breathing down my back, every one of them would have potential. I'm not saying they're malicious, I'm only telling you what they tell me after I've established a non MOB relationship with them. To imply they are of a lessor quality than say, your wife, is inaccurate. Espeacilly since you don't know them. These women are not stupid, you know that. I hear certain things over and over again from them. It's up to the readers here to decide if they're a representative sample, an accurate cross section. (There are 14 of them btw, ages 25 to 42, unknown to each other and spread from Moscow to Odessa.) These are running relationships, some with more frequent contact than others.

Generally speaking:

1) They're priotity is to get out. They're selective and want to find a decent man but the priority is to leave the life they now live. They all hope the marriage will succeed but know that getting out is the main hurdle. They all have connections here (moslty in Brighton Beach) and know getting here comes first. But they all *do* hope for a loving relationship as the bonus.

2) They're amazed how easily A/M can be manipulated. That doesn't mean they do it maliciously, it only means they're surprised at how easy it is to do. Most do not do it maliciously, at least these ones. But they sure know who's in control. I repeat: These women are not stupid.

3)The younger ones I deal with (under 30, a minority btw) seem far more willing to "bend ther rules" if needed. I see a more malicious nature from them than I do the older ones with children.

4) Emotional as they are, every one of them tells me that they do not love the man they're dealing with, yet inflate their feelings so as to gain an advantage. They're fully aware that this "love" must be cultivated. They're also fully aware that it's not real love and in fact, couldn't be at that point. (They seem to be smarter than the men in this respect.) These are not the things a girl will tell her perspective mate. But they will tell theirr girlfriends and someone like me who's no longer involved. It helps some that I gently steer them toward the subject on occasion.

They are decent enough people, I've little doubt of it. But there is no doubt they're running the show in their repspective relationships with men abroad and they know it. FSU chicks have the market cornered when it comes to the POB and they know it. None of this means they're evil, only smart.  Everyone of these women want the same but know if they don't get it, at least they'll be in a better position to try again.

So give them a break, I have an advantage with them you never had when courting your wife. She could have been playing you the same tune for all you know, it just worked out for you both in the end. After all, there are good examples of the breed other than your squeeze. In fact, it could be argued that her compatability with, and tolerance of, your personality alters that equation somewhat. ;-)

... in response to I hope you're..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

A very good post, and certainly a reality check.  All the more reason to protect your assets as well as your ass as best you can.  I would bet that success rates with these girls is at best 50/50, just like at home.

Funny, I think a year or so ago you would have been called troll troll troll for saying anything negative about the girls and or the process.

I think for all the work involved from training, mothering,
consoling, trips to INS etc., and costs involved, one needs to think ahead of what she may feel at different times.  Especially during the first 2 years, and what you'll do about it when it happens.  And, plan on being better than the best!

... in response to I hope you're..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002


Although you're making some generalizations , there's still a lot of truth in what you're saying here....thanks for the 'reality check' ...some of us need that every once in a while ...  ;-)

... in response to I hope you're..., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

[This message has been edited by yoe]

uh huh!
Now what part of this am I not suppose to give the infamous "LOL".
I could not blame my wife for me being so dam insecure thatI run off to some country that I cannot even speak the language and marry some girl that I have known less that the girl at the check out counter at Walmart! Come on give me a break! :)

hey we know what is up. If it does not kill ya it makes ya stronger-or hurts like hel!.
If a guy doe not have enough brains to know the obvious-what can you do. I always tell people my wife is a Mail Order Bride and she came COD! 90 day return policy.
Most guys have some insecure notion and make up some elaborate story of how -they did not meet online or it was just chance or whatver else 'GOD' has given them. In the immortal words of Britney Spears, "You may think I am sent from heaven above-I'm not that innocent".
Is that real enough for yas...............
I still love ya Dog!
Joe

... in response to other than the lies and manipulation, th..., posted by yoe on Dec 17, 2002

...Ok Yoey. I'd respond but I can't make heads or tails outta half of that post. Honestly. Some of it seems to make sense but as usual, coherency is not one of your strong points. But I still love ya back!

... in response to Uh...., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

[This message has been edited by yoe]

basically,
1.I was saying that it is obvious that a man will not be able to go to a foreign country and find a soul mate in one week.
2. Many say their love is from God I quoted Britney Spears in jest
3. My wife came over with the understanding that we are separate people living individual lives together
4. My wife can go any time she wants
5. People get what they deserve
6. MatMav is a real idiot
hows that? :)
Hey Mat that special recognition is no costs-but anytime you want to meet puzz just email me-you know my number but your little wimpy self stays incognito-I am not suprised. Flame on coward!
Joe

... in response to you must be getting the Matmavewateronth..., posted by yoe on Dec 17, 2002

1) Not so obvious, some of these guys do it all the time.
2) My love is strickly from Britney, God ain't half as hot.
3) Sorry, don't buy that for a minute.
4) See number three above.
5) Nope, I know many who deserve much better. And some *much* worse.
6) Ahhhh...Kinda touchy ain't cha?

Have a good one. ;-)

... in response to Uh...., posted by LP on Dec 17, 2002

N/T

... in response to Re: " On the lighter side ", posted by Watcher on Dec 16, 2002

Hello Watcher, I appreciate your kind words and the nature of your post.

What can I say? You are correct in much of what you say!

I guess at this time in my life I really don't care what some people think about me. I provide an honest and sincere service which many people benefit from. Having such a business on the Internet, I live in a glass house and people like cow claire, drew baby, max, spyke (and each of the many different names they use), have thrown many stones at me hoping to crack or shatter my glass house. If you never cheat people, are honest, sincere and up-front, then your glass house is going to always with stand the rocks and stones being thrown. I know when I stand-up and speak out against the likes of scum such as Leo (you remember Leo don't you Watcher?), the rantings and ravings of drew baby, mad max, stephen sprinkler, aka spyke, MarkH, etc that I am going to create waves. I could be mild and meek Watcher and say nothing, and it sounds like this is what you are recommending, but it's just not me.

I realize that I will lose some business because I do not mind speaking out, as I have said before, calling a spade a spade, but in reality I have gotten quite a bit of business from the slander of cow claire, drew baby and the likes as the have led  many people to my site to see what was going on and once there many guys get the feel for what I am all about and I end up doing things for them. So I figure I lose a little, gain a little Watcher, and it all evens out in the end.

Watcher, I am blessed today that I have a lot of business. Very few men in the world do what I do every day or see what I have seen everyday over the last almost nine years. I am proud to know I am one of the best in the world at what do. And I still enjoy it as much as ever, maybe even more. I have the business I have today because of the results I produce, plain and simple.

I certainly respect your opinion and your right to do business with whomever you like. As for me, I don't see me changing much about myself. I know I can sometimes be silly, and I don't have a problem with it, I like to smile and laugh and make those around me laugh. I know I can sometimes be un-professional because of my stance of guys who will stand-up several good ladies who were expecting to see them. I know I lose 20 or 30 customers each year because I refuse to help old men who want to meet young girls. I know I lose some 15 to 25 customers each year because I feel they are not serious and only looking for a sex trip. I lose about 3 to 4 potential customers on each of my group tours because I make sure they understand as part of my group tours are they will honor there committment to meet ladies that they have invited to parties or set dates with, even if they think they have found there dreambride. If you can't agree to such, don't sign up to go with me. Watcher, I know I cannot please everyone and stopped trying to a long time ago.

Your three trips to Russia and experience with this one woman over the last two years has made you more knowledgeable and probably a bit harder. Experience, education, has a way of hardening us. I would be willing to bet you will do quite well for yourself.

Hey! I hear there is a sharp looking, soon to be divorced, tatooed Russian lady named Natalia here in the states who is looking for an American husband!

... in response to " On the lighter side ", posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

Jack,

The one thing that confuses me is why anyone would be so obsessed with other people's business. My goodness, life is so busy, I would not have time for such as my own life is so demanding timewise.

She wrote to me and told me that her father did not marry a FSU lady as you mentioned. She said that her experience is with a "friend" and how he has been taken. Of course that is a mute point.

Jack, there is no doubt that there are a great variety of men who have ventured to the MOB venue. These men range everywhere from inept men, with no social skills, outcasts in her thinking (she portrays us all to be in this category) to men that are successful in all areas of life and have women locally dying to get their attention but, they have simply decided to look elsewhere.  

Her target is that man who fails at home and seeks a solution in the FSU. Does not everyone deserve happiness? Would she prefer that such a man remain without companionship? Yes some of these relationships will fail - it is inevitable. But, for her to attack is not helping anyone.

I wrote back to her and suggested that she put her bent up energy in this issue to doing some research and finding out how successful these marriages are. Per public record laws, I would guess that data can be pulled from the INS. She never responded. She just prefers to call us all losers. So what if I am a loser. So what if I am at the other end of the spectrum. What difference does it make? It isn't going to buy her lunch.

... in response to Re: " On the lighter side ", posted by thesearch on Dec 16, 2002

loser-one who sits in forums with no personal gain other that distraction, hostility and woe!
Winner-one who makes error and keeps on trying
Joe

... in response to loser defined.., posted by yoe on Dec 16, 2002

I agree.

People who succeed learn from their mistakes, mistakes are blessings as they teach you, winners realize this and embrace failure and  pick themselves up and simply do it different. They never stop until they arrive at intended destination.

Losers, tend to inflict self doubt at failure and thus do not learn.

... in response to " On the lighter side ", posted by Jack on Dec 16, 2002

N/T

... in response to Thanks for sharing, Jack. "Oh, bles..., posted by MtMav on Dec 16, 2002

tag..............