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"Dear Mr. Martin,

I greatly admire your efforts to set the facts straight concerning mail-order brides. I'm a recovering brideaholic myself and have reached many of the same conclusions you have.

Like many men who stumble onto the marriage-related web sites, at first, I believed many of their claims simply because I wanted to. But after writing many letters, broadening my research, and having a few first hand experiences, I have come to the conclusion that such activity is, at the very least, a waste of time and money.

I have probably spent about $3000 dollars on addresses, translations, phone bills, and transportation and am no closer to marriage than I was when I started. Money is not my main reservation, however; it is the emotional damage done to the participants of these relationships that concerns me more.

Although I have had communications with several women from Russia in which marriage was discussed, pre-conceived misconceptions have inevitably soured the relationships. Fundamental to these misconceptions has been the issue of wealth. These women seem deeply convinced that all Americans are filthy rich. When I tell them that I simply earn a comfortable income, they assume this means that I can't afford a full time chauffeur.

When I eventually make it clear that they won't lead a totally pampered lifestyle, they quickly loose interest. I deeply suspect that their misconception of the average American income is fully exploited by the marriage agencies in order to obtain photos and addresses. Unfortunately, this does not attract the sort of women that these agencies are promising.

When I began this process, I was simply looking for someone nice who would appreciate my kind, respectful, and decent nature. The marriage agencies fed into this by making claims concerning the widespread abuse of women in Russia. I still do not doubt such claims, but I had hoped that these women would simply appreciate a peaceful life with an intelligent and caring American. So far, this hasn't been the case.

There are other claims made by these agencies of which I am now extremely skeptical. The issue of age difference for example. I don't doubt that some women can rationalize away marrying a man 20 years older for his wealth, but women like these are not unique to the former Soviet Union. The issue of character verses youth or attractiveness is another example. By any chance, does the word "character" translate to something akin to filthy rich in Russian?

Certainly they must have a word meaning true character; Tolstoy seemed to understand its meaning. I also know a few Russians who have immigrated to America who seem to understand it. So why does its meaning seem to be getting lost in the translation by these agencies? Perhaps such words simply aren't in their vocabulary.

I have seen one of these relationships firsthand from beginning to end. I had been writing a girl who was already engaged through one of these meet-your-perfect-wife-in-a-week agencies. She said that she wrote to me because she had only known her fiancé for a short time and was concerned about his true character.

After many letters and phone calls, I agreed that she could stay with me if he turned out to be a jerk. She was in America a week before she called to tell me that he had thrown her out. Of course, I arranged transportation for her to my state.

To make a long story short, it didn't take her long to realize that I was not a millionaire and left the same day. When I contacted an immigration attorney on her behalf, he was already familiar with her and said that several other men had already contacted him about her.

The last I heard she was still looking for the millionaire that she is convinced most Americans are. Her visa has expired and she is probably staying in the US illegally. If caught, she could end up in I.N.S. detention indefinitely if Russia will not take her back.

I feel very sorry for her and her ex-fiancé whose only real fault was buying into the hype he was fed by the agency he dealt with. Her problem was firmly believing that most Americans are filthy rich. Whether she got this impression from Ugly-American tourists, movies, or the marriage agencies is really unimportant. No one can convince her of anything different.

The question I have is who's really at fault: maladjusted American men, amoral Russian women, or the agencies who profit from bringing the two together? Certainly this characterization is extreme. Not all of the men who become involved with this process are total jerks---some are very decent people. And not all of the women are scheming gold-diggers--- some are also very decent people, in very desperate situations, simply looking for a better life.

Nevertheless, the chance of successfully coupling decent people through the current process is extremely small. More often than not, one participant or the other becomes victimized. Certainly the profit motive is responsible for the extreme distortion of expectations on both sides.

I met one Russian women through an Internet personal ad who seems more in tune with reality. I don't think that this is the solution however. Very few Russians can afford the technology and service costs associated with Internet access, and this does nothing to dispel the modern mythology perpetrated by the marriage agencies.

The few Pen-pal clubs also simply can't compete on this level. What I'm considering is hitting these Marriage agencies where they live. Developing a non-profit website, every bit as slick as theirs, that 1) tells the truth, and 2) gives away addresses.

Such a website would quickly cut into the profits of these agencies. They might even dry up and disappear. In my correspondence, I have met a few nice Russian women who are dissatisfied with the number and quality of the responses that they are receiving. It seems to me that there are several factors involved here.

Most guys that buy these addresses never write. Buying addresses on an impulse is easy. Writing and delivering respectful letters to Russian women is more difficult. Many guys that do write misjudge their audience based on the misconceptions they are fed by the Marriage agencies.

How can a non-profit website get addresses? One easy way is by asking ex-brideaholics, via the Internet, to obtain the permission of women whose addresses they are not using. I have several such addresses which I purchased as part of volume package deals and then never used.

Another way is to circulate applications in the Former Soviet Union encouraging their reproduction via copying machines. How could such an application distinguish itself from all the others? By telling the truth and appealing to nationalism by stating the objective of putting for-profit agencies out of business and treating ex-soviets with the respect they deserve.

Can a non-profit website exclude immature or insincere participants? Probably not. What it can do is warn participants about what to expect, and recommend the discontinuance of any correspondence which seems even slightly insincere. After all, there would be many other addresses available, and the ex-soviets should be receiving many more letters since there is less cost and delay involved.

As part of their hype, the marriage agencies like to publish "success stories" which paint the same fairy-tale picture as the rest of their distortions. In a similar vane, a non-profit website could publish "horror stories" with a by-line stating if you really want to meet someone nice, here's what to look out for. With such a contrast, I think that a non-profit website would have much more source material.

Of course, a non-profit website would require the short term efforts of many volunteers in many counties. Volunteers to draft applications in several languages. Volunteers to circulate applications locally or during their trips abroad. And, of course, someone to host and administer the website. This would be my contribution.

Who might these volunteers be? Some might be foreign businesses, hotels ect..., who have had negative experiences with the for-profit agencies (some of the worst are no better than prostitution rings). Other short term volunteers could include anyone who has seen the damages the current for-profit process causes and wants to do something about it."

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

Since you are so bitter why not simply quit in your search, save your time, effort and money in your search for the absolutely perfect woman in FSU and focus all of the obvious time you have on a decent AW that would put up with your whinning.

... in response to Re: Found this on the Internet, posted by AndrewinOH on Dec 19, 2002

"the absolutely perfect woman in FSU "

Yeah, that's what I used to think also, sorry but that is simply not true, but hey, I don't want to ruin your fantasy, go get yourself one and be happy for the rest of your life, I wish you the best of luck.

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

Perhaps women just aren't right for you.  Maybe you should try men.....

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

that a scientist and philosopher such as yourself. with an IQ of 18.6, does not recognize the process of natural selection.  What you are going through is just God's way of ensuring thay you don't procreate.

As for your wife I think most of the posters to this board unfairly assume that the portrait you paint of her is accurate.  My guess is she felt a very strong need to distance herself from your lunacy and did whatever she had to do to achieve that end.

There is nothing to be learned from you that is not pathological in nature.  Please go away!

... in response to It is amazing to me, posted by Griffin on Dec 19, 2002

WHEW! ! !

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

David,
I tried to help guide you through your moment of hardship the best I could.  I even championed your plight here on this forum so as to use whatever "pull" I had here with the members to help you in your time of need.  You have chosen to ignore most of the wise and experienced advice given here from compassionate understanding men and take your own poorly conceived course of action.  You insulted and challenged the same men that put their hands out to help you in a very disrespectful manner.  Now you continue to insult our intelligence with your continued attacks on Russian women in general.
-
I have a news flash for you: you are not the only guy on this forum that has been deceived by a woman!  I would venture to say that the MAJORITY of the men here have suffered through a divorce (or two).  You whine about the 2.5 years of emotional investment you made in your relationship with your soon to be ex-wife.  SO WHAT?  Try 25 years.  NOT two point five, TWENTY-FIVE YEARS.  Then maybe we can compare battle scars.  And for God's sake, please do not ever again mention the $22k Mitsubishi Eclipse you almost got taken for, my ex-wife had jewelry pieces worth more than that and without a 5 year loan @0% interest.  Your financial "devastation" is a complete joke.  Wanna compare "war wounds" in this area?  Start with being forced to liquidate a summer home with a value exceeding seven figures (free & clear) and giving up a majority position in a national marketing company that you worked your balls off to build sales to $12,000,000 per year!  And guess what, David?  All that isn't even the worst part.  Now I KNOW you will never understand this, but your going to hear it anyway.  Try having the court restrict your time spent with children you have cherished and loved for 17 years.  Can you even begin to understand how frustrating the thought is of a cheating wife keeping you from the children you love more than life itself?  All with the backing of a court system that is so tilted in favor of women that it makes you sick.
-
Enough of my sad story.  There are many here I am sure.  Some worse than mine, most worse than yours.  The point is this: life goes on.  All women are not bad.  All Russian women are not evil.  The sooner you get over your own self pity and start building that new life, the better off you will be.  Until then, quit boring us with your whining.  Stop crying like a little girl and start acting like a man.
KenC

... in response to time to "suck it up" Bud, posted by KenC on Dec 19, 2002

I've only been on one big rant on this board and that was about bad things that happened to men I know getting divorced.  I am lucky I got divorced before I had much money but my wife also got a new car out of the deal and we separated 3 months later after I helped get her through college.  She spent everything I made for 3 years and I made a good salary.  

The worst thing I've seen happen to anybody I know was to a guy that had his wife cheat on him while he worked a second job to support her 5 kids from her previous marriages.  The woman's kid murdered him for the insurance money.  I don't think it gets much worse than that.  

I'm sure a lot of us know some guy that has lost everything in a divorce.  How much worse could marriage to a Russian woman be than to an American woman?  These stories only seem like news because the woman was Russian.

... in response to time to "suck it up" Bud, posted by KenC on Dec 19, 2002

...and Ken has been very nice with you.  The damage this guy has had is truly unsubstantial in any real sense.  He actually got off lucky.  Imagine, if like a very smart girl, she had 2 kids with him.  Then our very tilted system would really give him a workout on our male pain machine.  ie: That low-end luxury car would be all hers and he'd be makin' the payments.  There would be many other payments extracted.  All court ordered.  Perfectly legal.

I would advise any guy contemplating marriage to spend a couple days in their states divorce court and to sit there and see the ugly parade.  That is the real legal reality of it all.  Sobering to say the least.  But, good to know the real worst case scenario.  

In my state,  even without children,  he would still be on the hooks until a legal property settlement and divorce was granted.  A slick divorce lawyer could tie him up in knots with a few quick motions.

... in response to All true, posted by tim360z on Dec 19, 2002

one need not go to "their state's divorce court and sit there to watch the ugly parade" as you suggest in your post.
You can do it from your computer at: www.divorcesource.com.
It is a comprehensive site dedicated to all aspects of divorce including various message boards........enough to curl any thoughtful man's hair. By the way, the people in this country who really get screwed BIG TIME by FEDERAL as well as state laws governing divorce are career active duty and reserve military.

... in response to time to "suck it up" Bud, posted by KenC on Dec 19, 2002

I keyed a response to this message twice, but had to cancel it after I read what I wrote.  It was just too emotional.  The truth is that yes, marriage to a Russian woman is difficult.  It's more difficult than being married to an American woman because in addition to all the regular challenges of a new marriage, you have the homesickness, language frustrations, culture differences, and more.  That doesn't make these marriages bad, just a little more difficult.  Like you, I had almost 25 years invested in a first marriage that went bad.  I lost a 3 acre riverfront home.  My former wife kept the other riverfront place we had.  What David is whining about is not limited to Russian women.  In addition to me, I know one man who lost his large contracting business to his ex-wife althouth she never stepped through the office doors.  He unwisely registered the business in her name in order to land government contracts to minorities.  Bad move, but this American woman wanted him to go from influential to destitute.  She succeeded.

... in response to Thank you, Ken, posted by John F on Dec 19, 2002

John,
Most of the men here have a horror story (or two) regarding a marriage gone bad that would make David's look "lightweight".  So what?  You have to dust yourself off and get on with the rest of your life.
KenC
p.s. (Some hurt never goes away, but you have to deal with it the best way you can.  Some handle it better than others.  Sorry for opening old wounds)

... in response to time to "suck it up" Bud, posted by KenC on Dec 19, 2002

Well said Ken!
Dave I too lost more then you to my first wife and that marriage lasted just a little longer then yours. True divorce can make a man hurt real bad and make you go crazy, but the best thing to do is get back in the saddle and be greatfull you got out of this relationship before you lost many years of your life to her. Your just beating yourself up when you could be having fun. I wished I had this kind of advice way back when!

Mike

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

Ben Stein and his forboding dry monologs and upper crusty wit.  When I was reading the froth that this guy was writing I tuned into Steins' dry tone and stuffiness as I read this never ending froth.

Why do we read through all these lectures ?  And then respond to their dribble ?

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

This author is in the ozone layer, can not see beyond his on prejudice, is most likely someone who when he fails comes up with all kinds of justifications and rationalizations.

Few people have a balance of all what is in any given arena of life and everyone has some idea of some truths within said arena.

However, to understand and thus navigate in the arena without getting hurt you have to have more than just a sampling of some truths. However, many people when they discover a fact can allow that new knowledge to cloud their ability to discover more. That is this man's problem. Also, he just does not have what it takes for this adventure.

For example, this guys focuses on the concept that all these women think that Americans are rich. Well there is some truth to this but he has way overstated it.

My experience was not that these women are in this for the money to the extent he portrays. I personally found that they were less interested in what I had materially than the AW I have know. So, I see it totally different.  

I am as sure of this guy as I am about the fact that he will never never never follow through on his free web site.

Just a bunch of talk. However, he is wise to not pursue this venue - me thinks he is right - he would get burned - so in  that sense he is very successful in his conclusion even though it is wrong. But, it does effectively get him out of the hunt. That is good. :)

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

Dave look for something personal like this about a good AM that's married to a RW that are happily married. I'll be surprised anything equal to that will appear and you know dang well that they are some very happily married couples out here.

I know this happily married man wouldn't waist his time writing about it.

The writers of these complaints also suffer from displaced agression

Mike

... in response to Now find this on the Internet, posted by Mike on Dec 18, 2002

I guess I could just relate to the article, that's all. But from your perspective, since you have been successful, doesn't see it like that. I understand completely, 3 months ago I would have told you I was very happy with Natasha, even though I wasn't, but she was still my wife, and I cared for her, took care of her, and still planned out our future.

And now I've been played the fool and betrayed. Now I'm not suggesting by any means this will happen to anyone here, I'm fairly certain I just picked an extra bad girl.

Take care Mike, and congratulations on your happy marriage to a girl from Moscow, that is where Natasha was from, looks like you did much better than me.

Take care buddy,

David

... in response to Found this on the Internet, posted by John LV on Dec 18, 2002

That's who you are, when no one is looking!