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I am RW with child and here is my thoughts on subject marry or not to marry RW with child.
1) I’m absolutely disgust with all of you who’s refer to RW child as double expense and double trouble.
2) Yes RW with child is more mature, more committed to make marriage work. She has more experience, more patience, she simply knows better how treat her man.
3) Yes, mother has unconditional love to her child but it doesn't mean that husband will be on second place. Not true at all. All of you who says otherwise probably never had children and just don't know what you talking about. Love to a child and love to man are 2 different things that you can't compare and certainly can't say which one comes first because it is completely different type of love.
4) RW who had negative marriage experience before is very cautious about marrying second time. She must be absolutely in love in this person to marry him. Once divorced RW  is very much afraid of going thru the same negative experience again and that is why she has to be absolutely and positively sure that second marriage will work, that person she's planning to marry is the right one. Somebody said here who divorce once, will have no problem divorce second time. So untrue. Just opposite.
5) Your positive or negative experience with stepchildren is totally up to you. Some people here call RW children "some alcoholics and loosers children”. These people shouldn't evem consider looking for RW with child. Because no matter how good child will be, he'll never be good enough for these men.
6) Number of scammers much less among RW with children then single ones. Because woman with child can’t and won’t put her child at risk and marry man without feelings just to use him or whatever reasons. She is not looking for adventure but loving, stable and secure relationship where her child will feel safe and be loved.  

As for me I got married to AM when daughter from previous marriage was 5 yo.My husband had adopted her, give her his last name. He loves her as much as our son and treats both children fairly. She calls him Daddy. She respects and adores him.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

You set these guys straight. I have not read any of the responses below at this point but I wanted to tell you that I agree totally with you.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I'd be trying to get out of the country ASAP other wise with Russia and all their enemies (Chechnia) and manditory military service for males.  Would you want your son to go off to a ethnic war where their are casualties daily.

Those rivalrys are old than dirt, and not any closer to being solved than what is happening on the West Bank.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

Hi All,

I find this thread very interesting, and some of the responses quite maddening.  In our case, we each had one son before marrying.  I was a full-time single parent who got tossed several times when dating--sometimes by someone without any children, sometimes by someone who had the every-other-weekend free schedule and wanted someone with the same.  One way or another, it was only going to work for me with someone who was also a single parent.  The Russian part of it was just an unexpected, but much appreciated, surprise.

If you are a single father, of course, there is great value in meeting someone with a child of her own, because it takes a lot of the guesswork out of what kind of a parent she is.

However, if you do not have any children of your own, but are interested in having them someday, a K-2 child may be a wonderful introduction to how much your life will change, for better and for worse, by having a child in your home.

If you are not sure you want to share your prospective wife's attention and love with a child, of course, you should eliminate RW with children from your consideration.  Also, other W with children and other W who might want to have children.  Also, anyone else who might get in the way of you being the center of attention.

Then, when you get old and retire, our children will be working to pay your Social Security and Medicare.  And you won't have had any of the "double trouble" and "double expense" involved in raising them.  I will make sure my sons work extra hard, so you don't have to suffer any inconvenience.

But I do hope they live next door to you, and play really bad music very loud late at night just once or twice...

Steve M.

... in response to My Experience, posted by SteveM on Apr 1, 2002

Also, can we please stop talking about children from previous relationships as mistakes.  All of them are gifts, whether the circumstances of their arrival were wonderful or less than ideal.

... in response to Mistakes, posted by SteveM on Apr 1, 2002

nt

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I agree with most of what you said.  The most important things in my view are a) whether AW or RW, a woman who has had children is likely to be better able to sustain a LTR than one without.  b)  it does take some maturity and judgment (and some additional effort) to bring over a child from the FSU, and I agree with the sentiments below that the older the child the more difficult it is going to be.  While I would not hold my stepson out as any model, for all of his shortcomings he is very happy to be in America and does not want to return home.  Whether you fall in love with the children will depend on many factors, but Natalya, I think you are absolutely right on point that the RW will not forsake a man who cares about her, regardless of the # of children.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I'd like to hear from guys that have adopted a little boy, so far I'm hearing ... they're all girls.

I think you will find, the odds weigh more heavily for a guy marrying a lady with a female child verse one with a male child.

... in response to Re: Who has adopted a little girl  and w..., posted by wsbill on Apr 1, 2002

I have a stepdaughter and had no problems, but I hear boys, especially pre-teen to teenaged, don't fare as well as girls when brought to a totally new clture. I hear it's OK if they're young enough (pre-school) but a 10 or 12 year old is likely top have adjustment problems.

-- Jeff S.

... in response to I've heard that too., posted by Jeff S on Apr 1, 2002

I suspect some of the reason that Russian boys always seem to be a hand full is because they are being raised mostly if not completely by the mother. How many ladies do you know who have experiance at being a boy? A man is needed to develope a boys character from day one, if for any reason at all we men know how the male brain works, and how to get over on ol mom. I know I couldn't pull no crap over my dads eyes where as mom was easy to manipulate. Now sense I know nothing of being a female I suspect strongly a daughter could out smart me if I was raising one alone, but girls are mostly raised by their mother who have experiance at being a girl and knows how their brain works. So in conclusion the girls are raised more properly then the boys. Sense the first 5 years of a childs life are the most important years in the childs development, by the time they enter our lives much of the damage has been done chances are. ( just my thoughts regardless of how jumbled they sound )
Mike

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I agree completely, even with your judgments!!!!

Steve

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

We'll be more than happy to accept a woman with a child but in reality, you and I know there is just more women that will get passed over for having a kid.

In someways, we're just like the rus/ukr men over there.

We are selfish, opinionated and self serving.
------
The real irony to all this is the mere fact in Russia and Ukraine, we have a financial edge over the men there.  Once the economy improves and the men can pay for their family support/responsibilities.  The big event of wife hunting will draw to a close.

Every thing is based on economics of scale.

10-15 years ago it was Poland and Czech Republics which were the hotbeds of women looking for marriage.  Now that those countries are now established with the western world and self supporting.

When was the last time you heard of hundreds of marriage and dating agencies in these two countries?  (Oh, I'm sure you find maybe 10 at the max now days still in operation).

Same is going to be true for Russia and the Ukraine, once everyone can pay for their responsibilites the marriage agency business will dry up.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I am very happy with my 2-year marriage to my wife and I love her and her daughter (turns 8 this week) very much.  Had I purposely NOT chosen a woman with a child, I would be getting up at all hours trying to take care of a baby at my age!

It was (is) a lot easier for our developing relationship having a 6-year-old than having a baby.  Guys who think a child is an impediment have no idea how much more of an impediment a baby is...good luck to you dreamers, esp. the older guys.  Hope you enjoy changing diapers when you're 45!

Stevo

... in response to I agree with you 100%..., posted by Stevo on Apr 1, 2002

Maybe changing diapers at 45 will be a joy to people that want children, but were unable to have them earlier.  Anyway, no need to disparage people that don't do things the same way as you decided.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I have a few questions, I'm just trying to understand how much significance you are placing on having children.

I would like to know if you think women who have not had children are inferior in some way?

Do you think you had success in your marriage because of your character and morals and the character and morals of your husband?  In your opinion, before your husband had children was did he have less character and lower morals?

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by HappyInBrazil on Apr 1, 2002

I can't say whole lot about single RW simply because I never was one.I had child when I was 20 and ever since I was RW with child :) I can only say that RW are more mature just because being single mom in RUssia is not an easy task and life make woman with child grow up much faster than single.
As far as my husband and me.My husband had high morals and great character even before our marriage. He never ever call Aleksandra "stepdaughter".He accepted her as his own child and made commitment to raise her as her own from beginning.He always keep saying to me that real father of the child is not the one who donated sperm, but the one who raised child and made a real person out of him.

... in response to Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Apr 1, 2002

If you really don't know much about women without children, then perhaps you shouldn't be claiming that women with children are better.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by HappyInBrazil on Apr 1, 2002

I had NEVER claimed that RW with children are better than single! Show me where I said that and I will take my words back!!!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Apr 1, 2002

"2) Yes RW with child is more mature, more committed to make marriage work. She has more experience, more patience, she simply knows better how treat her man."

This is from your first post that started this discussion tread.

More and better compared to who?  I thought this was comparing to RW without children.

... in response to Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Apr 1, 2002

Very true!

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

not wanting to meet a woman w/ a child, as I thought that I wasn't ready to become an instant dad. But when I met Marina and her daughter Katya, all my preconcieved ideas went out the window and I'm glad they did. I'm also glad that Iwent into this w/ an open mind.
As for the cost, its a bargain if your foolish enough to put a price tag on love...aloha

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

Natalya,

I am soooo glad you spoke up!  Every word you say is true in my opinion!  I went to Ukraine and only wanted to meet women who had a child for exactly these reasons you say...
I think your husband is a very lucky man!

Oscar

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I don't think either one is better.  Both have there positives and negatives.

I did not get involved in this endeavor looking for either one.  But, over time,  the idea of a RW with children became more and more appealing to me.  I like children (have one 18 yr old), I always wanted to have more but if I started over at 43 years of age I would be 61 when the child graduated from highschool and that is assuming I was married and my wife became pregnant right now.

So, for me, the idea of a woman with a child is very appealing.  Obviously what I find appealing will not work for everyone.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

Natalya,
   I think most men would love the child of the woman they fell in love with. The child is part of the mother so how could you not?
   I think if the man is concerned with the expenses and allows that to alter his decision, the woman is better off without him.
    Maybe I am naive but I am looking for that one woman that makes nothing else matter. If I find her, together we will overcome anything.

    Rod

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Rod on Mar 31, 2002

I have always been focused on a woman with a child. I have met only a couple out of about 35 ladies who did not have a child. It was my choice. As for Tanya, I told her from the beginning it was a package deal. I can not lover her without loving her son or her mother. And now, I will tell you, I love her mother dearly. As for her son, I think it will take time and interaction. But I care about his future, especially with the king of father and the genes he donated to him.

Steve

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Rod on Mar 31, 2002

Great to hear this Rod! I had impression that most men on this board prefer RW without child due to double expenses, responsibilities and fear that they will be second and child will be always first (IMHO those men are pretty selfish if presence of child bother them so much).If you read previous posts you'll understand what I'm talking about.

... in response to Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

There are a few without kids, or parental experience that will categorize RW with kids, as expensive and double trouble.  To me, that sounds as if, the AM that are single parents, are just as big a liability, and that WE, should be figured in the same bunch as well.  After all, OUR KIDS, will be losers just like US, and get divorced, and have bad lives..etc.

Yeah, throw stones in your own court guys.  Have a kid or two and an idiot wife and then be a single parent.  Then have women figure you're a loss and too expensive because it's not worth the effort based on statistics of divorced parents et-al.

Well, I hope you malcontents (about rw's with kids) never have kids and get divorced.  You won't get a second chance from one like you that's for sure.

There is no perfectionist relationship.  Kids or not.

And we, just like the women and their children, deserve a second chance.

Good thing I'm not so self-interested that I wouldn't consider giving of myself to another child without a father.

This is another crap fest on this board that doesn't deserve the space it's written on.  

To each his own.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

I am happy for you.  There is no need for you to denigrate those who feel differently than you.  You bring many valid points.  However, I believe there is a high population of men who just do not want a beautiful women with a child when they could have a beautiful women without a child.  The chance that the RW has learned from their first two mistakes and may be more stable in marriage does nothing to quell the sudden lifestyle change single men without children would suddenly have plus the added risks and expenses the man would have to endure if he married a woman with children.  Facts are facts, costs are costs, one versus two, woman vs woman plus children - men must consider this.  What is right for one is not right for another.

... in response to RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

Natalya, you have a right to your opinions, but I happen to disagree with many of them.

1. It is a fact that children will mean double expense and double trouble.  This is not just Russian children, but applies to all.  I have seen step children ruin more potential love relationships and marriages than any other factor.

2. I don't think there is any basis in fact for your claims here.

3. I have my own children and I have been associated with several ladies with their own children.  You are simply wrong here.  The archives on this board and on other RW-AM boards are full of stories about how RW and their children have undermined the marriage between RW and AM by their actions as a unit.

4. You are wrong here.  The statistics simply prove that second marriages last, on average, much less than first marriages.

5. You are wrong here.  The AM is only part of the equation, and probably a small part of it.  Again the message boards are full of stories that show that many RW and her children completely exclude the AM from their conversations once the AM brings them into his home.

6. You may be right here regarding the traditional type of scammers.  But still, many of the RW with children have even a bigger desire to get their children out of a bad situation and give them the opportunities available in US.  So while they may not be running the traditional scams, this is another type of scam.

And Natalya, please do not think I am against RW.  I like them very much.  I just happen to disagree with most of what you say regarding RW with and without children.  Sorry that it sounds so cold, but people must act and think rationally in this pursuit.

And keep in mind that just because you have a good situation in your marriage does not prove anything.  You could come up with several examples of good situations, and it still wouldn't prove anything.  We must consider the entire population of situations, and that is where I see that the children are going to ruin many potential situations.

Sincerely,

JR

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by juio99 on Mar 31, 2002

I would think if you've already had kids and married a woman with no kids yet, she would probably want at least one kid.  Are you ready for that?  In my case I'm getting older and may not want to raise 2 or 3 kids from scratch and I could take one that's already started to save a little time that way.  I am also unbelievable good with kids and that could make a woman with a child more likely to stay with me rather than a childless woman.  Just how comfortable are you with kids?  It is more expensive to bring 2 people over but I could go either way.  I just notice that a lot of the really attractive women have kids and a lot of them are very serious because men over there don't want women with kids either.

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by juio99 on Mar 31, 2002

There is really no right or wrong out there - to each there own.  However, as far as I am concerned you are right on.  Facts are facts.

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by juio99 on Mar 31, 2002

Well JR,  I disagree with all of your assumptions here and I am a therapist that works with families for a living..

Oscar

... in response to Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by juio99 on Mar 31, 2002

JR, Thanks for reply. I post my opinion on subject RW with child because I've read alot of negative and almost nothing positive from previous posts. It's sort of bothered me.It botheres me as well that you can point blank that "You are wrong in here" .Well may be you think I'm wrong but somebody else will think there are some reasonoble points in what I said. Everything I said in my post is based on my personal experience and can't be wrong at least for me. Of course each case is different and I was blessed to find man who's more like Oscar and Rod. For some reason alot of AM quite negative about RW with children. I hoped that my message can help some of men to look on this subject from different angle.

... in response to Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

Very good topic and very well put Natalya.
I think it takes a mature individual to take on such responsibility.Only one who trully knows firsthand what it means to take care of a family and share in what I call the "gift" of having children around.I had one "before" I met my RW wife and knew first-hand what it meant.
As it turned out,I met and feel in love with my wife but she had never married before or had any children.Since then,we now have an 8 week old baby at home so I already know the kind of mother she would have been had she had children already.A lot can be said about how one parents...

I think you are correct on many things you expressed.Especially about any mother being more mature and not wanting to make a second mistake.
I think many here on the board don't realize at first this isn't only just about dating but that in fact these woman are giving up everything they know,including friends and their families,in order to try and make for a better life for themselves,their children and equally their husband.This "is" their family and "life" once they leave all they know and from what I've seen they put 110% into everything.I'm sure there are small exceptions and ladies who are immature or have a bad attitude.

As in "any" relationship,it's very important to take time and make sure everything gets expressed and understood along the courting process.There are many cultural differences between Americans and Europeans.My wife and I have our share of disagreements and tiffs but we both realize all we've gone through to be together and what life was like for both of us before that happened.

As for RW who have children already,it's up to the individual who wants and is capable of raising a family.Hopefully someone mature and financially capable of it.The reward is a home full of love...
This certainly isn't a date or game...

... in response to Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Natalya on Mar 31, 2002

Natalya,

You must remember to ask yourself, "Why is a man here looking for a woman in the FSU"?  Well, some are hopefully doing so because they happen to like the family values many of these women have, they like their attitudes and strength along with their obvious beauty and intellects.  But others look becasue they cannot buy a date in America for many reasons, one certainly being selfishness..  An AM in his late 30's and into his 40's who has never been married, one must ask, why??  Well, now you know! ;-)

Oscar

... in response to Re: Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by Oscar on Apr 1, 2002

Wouldn't your post also apply to people that need to degrade others that don't agree with them?  I just thought that was ironic.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: RW with kids.My opinion, posted by HappyInBrazil on Apr 1, 2002

I think there are many types of men out there and each one will be different and can't be judged if his opinion to be or not to be a step-father should be in question. When AM marries a RW he will instantly be making adjustments to his life, not because he is now married but because he is married to a  lady from a different culture and all that goes with that. If you add children to the mix some men can handle this perfectly and some will not, thus the end result could be even worse on the child. My thoughts are forget about your needs and desires, and ask yourself am I willing to take the chance with this childs life and developement for the sake of having a wife and all that you expect from her.
Mike

... in response to It depends on the man., posted by Mike on Apr 1, 2002

Hopefully this is the sensible answer that everyone can understand and agree with.