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Here's an interesting predicament. I'm going to Moscow, to meet a lady who lives in a nearby city. I told her i would fly to SVO, and then take train to her city. She tells me, in a humorous way, that I will be swept away by women in Moscow, and she wants to come to SVO, and ride the train overnight to her city. Hmmm. I like the idea of an overnight with her, but I wonder if she's going to stick to me like glue, to make sure I don't get to see antone else while I'm in the region.  :)

This is either a problem, or its not a problem. Oh, no, a cute woman wants to be joined to me at the hip!  

I think I will tell her I need to be able to venture out alone, and I'll be honest with her and tell her why. Hmmm, snuggling on a long train to her city.....this is a big problem....

Anyone else experience this phenomenon, which, by the way, doesn't seem to happen in my life in the US? Of course, I don't ride the trains here either...:)

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

Chip,

While it may not be great "strategy", there is a lot to be said for having someone come to meet you at SVO the first time you land in Russia.  It will certainly make life easier getting adjusted to being there at first.  

If you two click, the airport meeting and the train will be lifelong memories you will treasure.  If you don't, while the train ride to her city will drag, you can make arrangements to leave early (having already learned a little about getting around) and catch up to other possibilities then.

If this is the one who you think may be number one, she will never forget whether she was first on your list when you came over.  In my case, if there were any other numbers or any list at all, my wife never would have been interested in meeting me.

Of course, my situation was different than most here.  I wasn't looking for a Russian wife.  Sure am glad I found one anyway...

Good luck,

Steve M.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

My wife thinks train rides for Americans are unsafe if going alone ?? She does get easily paranoid though. Anyway my cousin is going to Moscow today ( I think )and has one lady there that also wants him glued to her hip, and wanted to meet him at the airport and have him stay with her. He told her no it's too late I've paid for all arrangements. He knows it's best to not have any lady dominate your time there and to always be in control of where you want to go and when. This will allow you freedom to meet whoever you want, especially if she isn't everything you had hoped.
Mike

... in response to Re: My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by Mike on Feb 6, 2002

A great way to meet people..  very friendly and good value...  The Toilets are not good...  but every thing else is ok.  Just try to be fiendly and fit in.  Use commonsense and do not talk down..  In many cases they are better educated thean you...  just not as wealthy...  I made many new friends with people I met on thye Trains...  DO NOT BELIVE THE HORROR STORIES...  If in doubt contact Emil via Lonely Planet or Brama..

... in response to I found the trains to be very safe.., posted by jj on Feb 6, 2002

JJ,if you had few succesful trips by train in Russia it doesn't mean that it is completely safe. What it means, that you were lucky.But with attitude like yours you'll get in trouble sooner or later. Because friendly american guys like you - are the first target for russian criminals.

... in response to Re: My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by Mike on Feb 6, 2002

And your wife is completely right! It is unsafe not only for american but sometimes for russians too. There are scammeres who put some sleeping medicine in your drink, steal your stuff while you sleeping and even kill. It is very unsafe and I'm not making this up. Take the train trip on your own at your own risk!

... in response to Train trip is unsafe!, posted by Natalya on Feb 6, 2002

And I've made probably a dozen different trips (or more) to different destinations.

The most "unsafe" part is braving the toilet and avoiding any nasties that may get you in there.

Having said that, I always take a few precautions such as:

* purchase an entire sleeping compartment
* refusing the attendant's inevitable request that I give up any unused bunks.
* when I decide to sleep, I latch the door from the inside and sometimes I will tie it closed - if possible.

Lest this all sounds very anti-social, I should also note that I normally travel accompanied and I/we want some occasional privacy - AND I/we often mingle and interact with the wagon-mates traveling with us.

That's about it.

Candidly, I've had some of my most enjoyable and memorable excursions via the train in Ukraine. It is a unique and enjoyable experience.

FWIW

- Dan

... in response to Hmmmm - That Certainly Has Not Been My E..., posted by Dan on Feb 6, 2002

I always pack a lenth of clothes line and sometimes a couple of eye screws if I have to use the train in Ukraine.  Also, a roll of toilet paper, bottled water for drinking and washing, food, and spray disinfectant (if you can find it over there) are highly recommended.  

We also purchase all tickets for our compartment.  Pretty smart idea.  It avoids having to deal with sharing your personal space with any strangers.  I sure slept better at night that way...

... in response to Been there, done that, posted by John K on Feb 6, 2002

I bought the whole compartment when I travelled by train. But we were overloaded with luggage and needed the extra bunks for our suitcases. We also wanted the privacy. It is well worth it.

I found that the lady I was with was way more paranoid about my safety than anyone else. Other people would take me just about anywhere without worrying about it. My girlfriend didn't want me going certain places, even if it was with her family or their close friends unless she went along.

And what is up with the washrooms and toilets in Russia? The Russians I know are as clean or cleaner than most of the Canadians I know. But the public washrooms! They're almost a traumatic experience. And I'm a rancher that's used to lots of bad smells.

... in response to Me Too., posted by Zink on Feb 6, 2002

The trains are basically cool, but you need to go first class. GUYS, don't even think about second class and god forbide forget you ever heard about a third class.

First class berths are relatively cheap, almost anywhere in the country for $25 or less. I think first-class from Kiev to Odessa is about $23.

Traveling by trains allow the guys seeing ladies in various cities a way to move about in-expensively and not having much downtime. You have to sleep, sleep on the train at night. Flats average $50 a night, so you cut your overnight loding expense by 50% when you travel by train at night.

Most Ukraines will take second and third class berths as they are much cheaper.  A second class berth will have four people in it and not much room, two lower bunks and two upper bunks. (Best to sleep on your valuables) A third class berth is wall to wall berths. If you ever walk thru a third class berth you will see feet and socks pertruding into the aisle. Sometimes the air is a bit thick also, if you know what I mean.

Now the negative to trains as I see them is that some trips are too long, such as the train from Kiev to Lugansk. Overnight is one thing, but 18 hours one way is something else. You guys do not have the luxury of spending 36 hours, 1.5 days, just traveling on a train and in this situation, in my opinion, you need to consider another form of transportation.

... in response to trains are cool, posted by Jack on Feb 6, 2002

C'mon Jack. Where is your sense of adventure? (Just joking)
I went with my little scammer from Moscow to Belograd and back. I must say that I didn't get much sleep on that trip (but neither did I when I went to Crimea with my fiancee last summer for but different reasons :).

We were in second class (not too bad) going to Belograd and third coming back. I can still see that poor woman who had the bunks across the aisle trying to shove her drunk husband up into the top bunk only to have him fling himself back out taking them both to the (nasty) floor. What an eye opener to the difficulties facing RW and how they persevere.

I found the train from Kyiv to Simferopol to be much cleaner (and FUN!) with a much better crowd, but then that was first class. My fiancee was much more paranoid than I was about leaving our stuff unattended while we went to the dining car for dinner but I would not have missed that "party" (with a bunch of total strangers) for anything.

... in response to trains are cool, posted by Jack on Feb 6, 2002

I went 2nd class from Volgograd to Sochi. The train I went on didn't have first class. The trip was 24 hours. 2nd class wasn't bad but you do need to bring your own food and drinks. We had lots of food but we forgot to bring anything to drink. For most of the day all we had to drink was tea that the conductress made us. After about 12 hours we stopped at a small city where we could buy water and juice.

My lady made sure that I got a good look at the 3rd class cars. God forbid is a good way to put it. The people were stacked in like sardines in bunks lining the walls. The whole car was one compartment with no privacy at all.

I've read about a tour package that goes by train from Moscow to Vladivostok. It sounded interesting but I don't know if I could stand 2 weeks on a train.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

If this is the first time your are meeting her you may be setting yourself up for disaster.  If you already have met and are making a second trip just for her then it is a good sign.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

She speaks perfect English; maybe she just wants to talk.:)

I will subscribe to the idea of buying four tickets for a four person sleeper car. One ticket for me, one for her, and two tickets for the women she thinks I'm going to meet at SVO. :)

Actually, I'm a good guy, and she seems to be a good girl. Smart and funny. She's not a "model," but I'd follow her down the street, if I saw her here in NY. It should be an adventure. If I wanted a sex tour, I would go to the theatre district in Manhattan. :) I'm looking for a partner for life, and a long ride in a four person car seems a great start. Spasiba.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

It could very well be that she needs you very much and wants to be with you.
She has not seen you in a long time and if she loves you, she is really on call (to use a french expression).
When a girl loves you, she will go through for and with you.
Perhaps you should start to be worried when she doesn't care to take the train with you, anymore.
Just hold her very thight, on that overnight trip.
Remember the book, the spy who came in from the cold,  if she dearly love you.  She also wants to come in from
the cold.
But that you need to be told this, could also suggest, because you are already worried that she will stick like glue,
that she has already made you out.  How in hell can you can you judge of  her intentions, if you do care for her.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

Chip,
RW are very jealous and possessive. My wife keeps a keen eye on me as well as any females in the area. I believe that this stems from the lack of faithfulness of RM. They have grown up with the concept that men will cheat and it is hard for them to change that "mind set". My wife has point blank asked me if I have a lover some where. She was also ready to deck a woman that was checking me out in a club one night. Take it as a sign of sincere flattery, she must think you are a "keeper".
KenC

... in response to get used to it, posted by KenC on Feb 5, 2002

Mine says she will 'keeel' me if I do...but I think that deep down she hopes that I do as 'proof' of my desirability to other women (thereby validating her choice) and my masculinity.  Go figure!

RW aren't anything like AW concerning this area of sexuality/fidelity.

Stevo

... in response to get used to it, posted by KenC on Feb 5, 2002

This is how my wife presents it to me:

She trusts me, but she doesn't trust other women.  Men have an inherent weakness towards women, so their women must be extra vigilant to make sure their men don't become unduly tempted.

It's flattering that my wife is so possessive of me, but by the same token the constant queries into my nonexistant extracurricular lovelife, combined with the constant threats of what will happen to me should she ever catch me with another woman wears on me after a while.  She is resigned to the fact that I will take a lover someday, regardless of how I feel about the matter.  Apparently men are too weak to say "no" to a woman.  

I get grilled over any woman who leaves a message on the answering machine, had all my pager messages read, and been grilled over all the female numbers programmed into my cell phones.  Since my wife uses my email sometimes, I am not surprised to see any message from a woman marked as already read by the time I get to them.

All I can say is get used to it.  It won't change for the first few years...

... in response to Men will cheat..., posted by John K on Feb 6, 2002

What you are saying is that they do know that to cheat on someone, you do need a partner to do it with.
It is not only men who cheat, women do it also.
They are sending messages.  Their is two sides to every coin.

About the other subject on another post, same subject.   If a girl has study for many year to learn something very
well.  It kills her not to use that knowledge somewhere, somehow.
To place these girls in a spot where all they will ever be is a housewife, is the beginning of the end of the ball game.
Things are a changing, girls do not only aspire to be a housewife,  listening to soaps on tv, eating chocolate
by the boxes, laying in the sun, reading love stories from grocery store books.  While dreaming of a white knight
on a white horse, coming to put a spark in their life.
Anyway life is life.  The only chances that we men really have with women, is to hope..........
After one hour, even the dummier of them, know us backward and forward just as if she had knitted us, just
think how well they do know us after months and years.
It is, no  matter what the best game in town, because it is the only game.  This is why we play it.
It is call love.

... in response to get used to it, posted by KenC on Feb 5, 2002

Chip.
If you can work it out, buy out the compartment in the train.  You will have to buy 4 tickets for the two of you, but it will be worth it in the long run.
KenC

... in response to one more thing, posted by KenC on Feb 5, 2002

It'll save you some money.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

h yea,

I had a very similar experience. I met a lady in Prague. She wanted to come with me to second destination - Moscow because she was concerned about other women - only reason. This is just a reflection of the competition for men I suspect.

... in response to My lady won't let me roam!!, posted by ChipShot on Feb 5, 2002

It's a pretty commom trait.  FSU women are very competetive with each other by nature.  Don't even think of letting your eyes roam if you're with her.  I made the mistake of watching a girl on the dance floor a little too long once.  It was hours later before my fiancée would speak to me...

... in response to Expect possessiveness, posted by John K on Feb 5, 2002

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/show.php?russian/archive00140/messages/60569.txt

It shows exactly the opposite. I personally think that inattention is a big red flag.

-blm

... in response to Funny, check out this post in the archiv..., posted by BarryM on Feb 5, 2002

Barry,
That post was about a RW who was checking out other men & women, not about her being inattentive to her man.
KenC
KenC

... in response to not the opposite, posted by KenC on Feb 5, 2002

After much communication back and forth with her, I realize my complaint about her staring at people so much was nothing to get excited about. I lost many nerve cells unnecessarily over it.

I am old enough to take the blame myself, but I think I let myself be influenced by the negativity on this board (yes, I know it is a million times worse elsewhere). I got too trigger happy looking for signs of a scammer.

We have made up. I will see her a few more times before she comes over. The bright side is that we got to know each other a lot better over this spat.

I'd like to say that of course there are scammers out there. However, it is my impression that not only is this concern way overblown (and avoided with a little common sense), but please be careful not to blow a budding relationship with a truly wonderful woman. I almost did. I still have some caution, but through developing more and more trust with her by talking with her and being with her, this caution is receding into the background, further and further away.

By the way, one of my friend's who is Ukrainian and does introductions in Kiev-- she has tons of experience-- says that one of the biggest problems guys have in their countries with their FSU women is getting jealous of them. Remember the last time you were driven crazy even if only a day or two by The Green Eyed Monster in a past relationship. This common feeling could come back to haunt you if you bring one of these super attractive women here. She knows firsthand of cases where the guy goes nuts, telling the woman she can't even leave the house! And we know how social they are.

A peripheral (at best) side note about people staring at her: She told me that in Ukraine people say that women who are truly faithful are not those who can't attract attention and don't fool around, but are the women who CAN attract a lot of attention and stay faithful.

... in response to Followup to the "Inattention" ..., posted by Scaught on Feb 6, 2002

scaught,
I am glad to hear that things are working out for you.  I agree that the paranoia is rampant here concerning scammers.  RW are no different than any other women when it comes to manipulating men.  With the distance factor (and desperate AM in need of affection) has opened the door to some men making foolish choices regarding RW.  I don't know who is more to blame in thses cases, the RW or the AM.

With the language and culture barriers in mind, you have to be more patient with your relationship with a RW.  Many misunderstandings stem from these areas.  You may have to "bite your tongue" until you get all the facts.  Many disagreements can be avoided by talking out what appears to be a problem.  You should not jump to conclusions until you have time for an explanation.

I had to laugh about what you write in regard to the "green eyed monster."  If you are going to bring a hottie here to America, of course she will draw attention.  Buck up buddy and deal with it or it will consume you completely.  I have experienced many a man's jaw dropping when I am with my wife.  I take most of the attention as a complement to my good taste in women.  Unfortunatly, there have also been a few incidents where men's attention goes beyond good taste.  I have no problem in correcting those.  Best of luck to you.
KenC

... in response to some very good points, posted by KenC on Feb 6, 2002

Ken-- Thank you for your post. You know exactly what I am talking about.

Would you please share even if in general how these people crossed the line and what you did? I need to be prepared. It's coming my way. Big time. I would definitely appreciate your opinions/experiences.