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Hi everybody,

I've been posting here for more than two years. Some of you will remember that I've been married with a Russian lady for more than two years. Now I'm having a problem that I need some advice about.

Our relationship is wonderful. She loves me very much and I love her. She has got a good job, even better than mine, and contribute very well economical, and we get along wonderful. Everything looks fine. However there is one problem that is growing bigger and bigger for me. I've a teenage daughter from my first marriage. My first wife died in a traffic accident, and it was a terrible situation for both of us. When Elena came into my life five years after the death of my wife, it was wonderful for me, but for my daughter it was frustrating. I was quite sure it would be fine in the long run, but now I see that Elena has not succeeded to get a good relationship with my daughter. Norwegian children have a very free upbringing that is a mirror of our open and democratic society with little respect for authorities. Maybe this is difficult for Elena, to conduct herself to an intelligent teenager who is used to argue and question everything. However I love my daughter, and it hurts me to see that Elena doesn't like her, I think. In fact it's so big a problem for me that I, in bad moments, think that our relationship cannot go on. I'm always thinking she can do more to get a good relationship, but I understand she thinks my daughter is spoiled. I can compare my daughter with other girls at the same age, and I know that she is a very good girl. Maybe I'm blind because I love my daughter so much, but I think that is a correct observation. I'm not willing to sacrifice my daughter to get a good relationship with any woman.

Maybe some of you have some good advice for me. Especially I would like to get an advice from our female contributors in this forum.

Johnny W

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

In the U.S., there are Family Therapists who work with this issue all of the time. A good therapist can be very helpful at identifying areas of concern, and helping you, your wife, and daughter come to an understanding and appreciation of each other, and devise ways to manage differences. Again, look for a Ph.D. level psychologist, with licensure as a marriage and family therapist. Only good things can come from a few meetings this way, I promise. Your marriage and your relationship with your daughter can be healthy, at the same time.

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

When I first saw this post, no one had yet answered it.

First, a big wrench started to tighten in my gut, because I had to deal with this exact same issue as a step-parent, ie, you ain't my daddy... for years.

I was hoping that someone else would come in and offer advice because it was just too aggravating for me to even go there again, but reading these responses, wow... I'm so happy that others can see and relate also.

Since this is your first time dealing with this situation, I can only offer two thoughts, and no advice, since most of that has been covered by all of the great responses posted here.

1. She isn't my mother, are code words for:

A. I don't like her.
B. I'm jealous of the attention that you give to her, and I hate it because I'm not THE lady of the house now, and not the central one and only female in your life. (Also means "I'm insecure with this arrangement, I don't like the idea of being number 2, because she can meet your every need, and now... how am I supposed to go about getting your approval?")

2. Lena left her life, to take a chance with you and your daughter. Your daughter still has everything she started with since you began this venture but Lena stands a chance to lose it all.

There are no real ways to "coddle" this deal to some magical fruition, because it will just never happen; but with a hard line attitude about this subject, to your daughter, you may find that the passive agressive behavior from her, just might go away all by itself.

"Touchy feely tip-toe around the subject, coddle coddle, coddle" never works with your own kids in this situation. No need to be a total authoritarian, but rather black and white.. and at the same time, sensitive to the issues that she's still a kid growing up, without her real mother. When the new wife also thinks and reacts this way, (and has some compassion for the daughter's loss of her real mom, instead of being competitive), it makes things a lot smoother for all.

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

My second marriage ended because my daughter and my wife did not get along.

(Although there were other reasons... this is what was "blamed"...)

I felt that in the end, it was more important to be a dad than a husband -- my daughter needed me more. I still firmly feel I made the right decision...

However, in your situation, I would probably choose the other way.

You have said that your daughter is independant. (She's also probably not developing a good relationship with your new wife out of deference to her mother -- she can't love your new wife without feeling guilty...)
But remember: She is a teenager, soon to be on her own. In many ways, it sounds like she is already there.

I know you love your daughter, and rightly so. But she is going to leave you soon. It's what kids do. She will "leave the nest" very soon...

Don't lose the love of a good woman for the sake of a few strained times over the next couple of years with your daughter.

IMHO

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I would like to thank all of you who a responded to my questions. I was a little depressed last night when I posted. Today I look a little brighter at the situation, partly because I feel better, and partly because of the good replies I got from you. I'm overwhelmed of the positive and wise responses I got. Truly there are a lot of wisdom and experience to find on this board.

Maybe I made the situation too dramatic. Usually we have a friendly relationship all three of us. We have been travelling a lot together, also to Russia to meet our Russian family, and my daughter liked it very much and wants to go back. I was, however, missing a closer relationship between Elena and my daughter. Maybe I in my fantasy have imagined that a close and intimate relationship would develop, like it did in the movie with Julia Roberts: "Stepmother". My daughter already goes to Elena to get help, with changing a dress or other things that I'm not good at. Sometimes, however, I notice that she speaks to her through me, and sometimes it hurts me to see that Elena doesn't involve herself in my daughters life as much as I wanted.

Today we had that talk so many of you advised me to do. Of course we have talked before also, but this talk ended very good. Maybe Christmas makes something with us. My wife and my daughter have been making Christmas decorations together, and it was a pleasure for me to listen to how they were chatting together.

I think everybody who is looking for a Russian bride should notice that he doesn't only get a wonderful woman, but he also get a woman with other traditions and upbringing. I believe some of our problems are due to cultural differences, especially about bringing up children. My wife has a very good education in science, and in the first time she lived here, we thought about it if she could get a job as teacher in mathematics. However, she couldn't stand the thought of teaching Norwegian children.

Again thank you all of you, and merry Christmas. The greatest day her is Christmas eve on Monday.

Johnny W

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I know what you mean when you speak about “free upbringing”. When I moved to Germany I was just shocked how much German kids differed Russian ones and how much different German parents treated their kids. Kids were allowed EVERYTHING! They could “play” with expensive musical center (“if they break it the insurance company will cover the loss”), they could lay on the floor in a café while the parents were drinking their coffee, they could do this and that. But very soon I realized that the results of such “upbringing” were much better than here. Children had much more healthier nervous system and stronger personalities. And, I must admit, all the parents I met treated their kids with respect, even if a kid was just several months old.

It seems to me that in your situation your wife needs your help and defence more than your daughter although it’s only you who can judge it. But I would warn you from treating your daughter with love only and being blind about her faults considering it as “free upbringing”. If she treats your wife with disrespect she should be “punished” by you (it’s up to you how you do it – not to talk to her for some time, not to give her money for something or something else). If you take a puppy and he “spoils” your expensive white coach you will hardly pet him and give him delicious food right after that. Most probably you’ll spanken him with a newspaper and tell him in an angry voice not to do it any more. I believe this is the proper way of treating men and children. :).

Good luck,

Tootsie

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Tootsie on Dec 22, 2001

Hi Tootsie,

I can assure you that you would be shocked again if you came to Norway. In Germany they have a very strict dicipline compared to Norway. Together with the rest of Scandinavia, I think we are on the top of free up-bringing in the world. I think we have gone to far.

Thank you for your reply. I agree with you. Elena is in one way very alone here. Even if she has a job and begin to speak our language well and begin to get her own friends, she depends on me for a lot of things. That is something I'm very aware of. She needs my support. I understand it more and more. At the same time I don't see any contradiction in loving my daugther.

Is it still cold in Moscow? We have at last got snow, and it's about -7 to -9. It's wonderful to look at the trees covered with snow. I think it will be possible to go skiing in our Christmas vacation. Both Elena and I love it very much.

Johnny W

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Lots of excellent thoughts below. I especially liked Russian Wife's. Having raised a step-daughter myself, I want to re-emphasize that all teenagers go through an argumentative, rebellious stage. I did, my sister did, and my step-daughter did. Even Mark Twain once said that at the age of 16 he was amazed at how stupid his father was, but by 21 he was even more amazed at how much his father had learned in five short years. Your daughter will get through this by her early 20s and while she may never love your wife, she'll likely accept her much more than now. Very best wishes to you and your family.

-- Jeff S.

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I can relate to your problem as I have raised a stepchild (and am starting on my second) and was in your new wife's position. However I disagree with your statement that your child's responses are due to being raised in a "free upbringing that is a mirror of our open and democratic society".

A family is not democratic relationship. Children are not equal to adults and must be taught to respect and defer to authority. Not to say that they cannot question authority but they must understand that others have more expirience and knowledge than they do. They also need to know you are looking out for their best interest however much they dislike your decisions.

IMHO you are more responsible for your childs actions than "society" and now you must face the consequences of your actions and inactions.

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Rags on Dec 22, 2001

Hi Rags,

I mainly agree with you. There should be an authority in every family. However there should also be some democratic principles. In my country we are trying to expand democracy to all parts of our society, schools, working places, public administration and even in families. Sometimes I've a feeling we are going to far. I don't know. I agree, however, that parents in cosideration of their longer experience and their responsibility should have more than one vote :-)

Johnny W

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Johnny,
As one who has been through the same "firestorm" you are in (and,the relationship was the casuality!) I urge you to think very seriously about having a long talk with your daughter and explaining that you'll always be her father, just as you'll always be Elena's husband and that you will be living with Elena long after your daughter has her own family and her own life.
In short, make it clear to your daughter that it is she (and she alone) who will have to make the choice about the tone and timbre of your relationship with her!
All 3 of my young people now acknowledge that they were responsible for the breakup of the relationship - they now in their mid-twenties!

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Hi Johnny,
your problem is very common for people in your situation. Your daughter now has competition for her Daddy's attention and she is going to fight to drive the other woman away and have you all to herself. In addition, being a typical teenager, she will question authority and even argue as you say. Your wife Elena loves you but as you say, she doesn't like your daughter. And probably your daughter doesn't like your wife and hasn't made things easy for her at all. And there you are stuck in the middle because you love them both but you have been with your daughter longer and feel that you love her more as you say that you are not willing to sacrifice your relationship with your daughter to get a good relationship with any woman. But you love your wife so what do you do? Not so easy but what you must do is not let the fact that they don't like each other affect your relationship with either of them. They will try to manipulate you, especially the daughter as she already has, but you must not let that happen. Tell them you don't like the fighting and arguing and try very hard not to take sides. Tell your wife that you will always want your daughter to feel comfortable in your home and that you are holding your wife responsible to make sure that she never makes your daughter uncomfortable to be in your home. Tell your daughter that she does not have to love your wife as her mother but that she must not show her any disrespect and that she should try to make things easier on her because you are committed to her as your wife and your daughter needs to accept the fact that you intend for Elena to always be your wife and that you love them both. Set some time apart each week, one period of time is father daughter time, and one period of time is husband wife time and then go out and spend the time appropriately. Don't ever let either one of them think or feel that they are loved second best. If you let your daughter ruin your marriage, then you would be wrong Johnny, and Elena would deserve a far better husband than you. Over time, your daughter will mature and even be thankful for Elena. I didn't particularly care for my Stepdad when I was a teenager but now when I think back on it, he was the one who taught me how to drive, and I must say, he did a good job of it. Someday, your daughter is going to need Elena and Elena is going to be delighted to help her and you will see a breakthrough and peace and love in your family. So for now, the main thing is to not let them pull you from side to side or manipulate you in their direction to the exclusion or hurt of the other. And yes, keep in mind that you are very biased towards your daughter and probably (based on what you wrote) completely blind to her faults, so occasionally you should ask yourself, is my daughter in the wrong here and maybe I should tell her to lighten up a bit. Women are emotional creatures, but you are the man, you must be the one to make sure reason, logic, and accountability prevails.

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Ramblin on Dec 22, 2001

Hi Ramblin,

What you are drawing the attention to, was truly a problem earlier. However we have lived together for more than two years now, and my daughter has made it clear that my Elena is not her mother. I also believe that she understand that I love her even if there is a new woman in my life.

I think it's correct what so many have written that probably there will not be untill she is grown up she will understand everything.

I will try to remember your good advice to make both of them understand that I love them.

Johnny W

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Dear Johnny,

I think that sooner or later all of us realize that the only time you can be a good parent in eyes of your children is when they are very small or when they have kids of their own. Everything in between is a "war" for independence :)
That happens in every family, with all kids - just depends how serious and bad it gets and how long it takes to recover :) Even if your wife was alive - it still would have been the same. If you have married different woman - you still would have the same problems with your daughter. I think you should realize and change your attitude towards it to be not "Elena vs my daughter", but "us, parents dealing with our kids".

There is no quick solution to it and it might take years till it all settles down - your daughter grows up, gets happy with her life and "finds" herself.

The only piece of advice I can give you is to never put Elena or you daughter down in front of the other. Give them both respect, understanding and love. Just remember, years will pass by and your daughter will move on. If you will let Elena go you might regret it later - even your daughter might regret it too. She will not need your sucrifice.

Also, does Elena have kids of her own? What I usually notice how we, women who moved to other country, "fix" our memories on good things which happened in our lives before without realizing that things have changed a lot - our friends, families, everything. Kids in Russia these days are much more different from kids even five years ago. They are dealing with totally different environment, information, lifestyle, etc. So the problems which your wife is facing with your daughter might be even smaller ones than she would have in Russian with her own kids.

Hope that helps.

Russian Wife

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

"I'm not willing to sacrifice my daughter to get a good relationship with any woman."

Say what? Thats seems a tad strange to me.

Wish I could be as eloquent as the others, but not in my
makeup. The fact is your daughter will eventually grow up in more ways than one. (I've raised two girls, trust me).

She will move on, or out, and what will be will be. In short, it's a temporary situation, while the Mrs is for
the duration.

Other than that, I agree with the other's advice.

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Johnny,
Some questions first. How old is your daughter? There is a big difference between 13 and 19. Does your daughter live with you and your wife? Is there any other children in the house?

Without the above information, I will just have to say that blending families is a most difficult thing to do. You must stand united with your wife. You must demand that your daughter treats your wife with respect, She doesn't HAVE to like her, but she MUST treat her respectfully. The "step" parent, your wife in this case, is in a very akward position. She is not the "mom" and cannot act as freely as one would, but yet she is the "woman of the house" and DOES deserve to make certain decisions. Your wife must get her boundries from you. What is she allowed to do in regard to your daughter and what is she not allowed to do. A lot depends on the answers to the questions above,
KenC

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I agree with the other posters below, you must show support for your wife and make it quite clear to your daughter that she IS your wife and that nothing, including your daughter will come between the two of you. Your daughter will soon be living on her own. As time passes, she will have her own family and you will see less of her. Who will you have to share your life with then, if not Elena? You took the vows, now its time to reassure Elena that you are committed to her. Children learn quickly how to manipulate parents. Regardless of how much you love your daughter, your daughter has a responsibility in developing a relationship with your new wife that is at least tolerable to you and Elena. Life is a two way street and so are families. Questioning authority is one thing, arguing or disrespect is another. You and Elena must be on the same game plan as to how you are going to deal with this issue. You will have to compromise to some of Elena's views on how to handle this issue. Your daughter needs to know that while you do love her, you will not tolerate her disrupting your relationship with your wife. Period! Obviously, you need to attempt to get your daughters buy in first on how to reach a resolution to this issue. But, your daughters buy in is OPTIONAL (children don't run families), not a requirement. You AND Elena have the utimate decision and responsibility on how to handle this difficult issue.

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Hi Johnny,

I honestly don't know that answer to your question - and it is probably not something that anyone can answer definitively from afar. However, I'll offer a couple of thoughts - for whatever they may be worth to you.

My guess is the tension is probably more the responsibility of your daughter than your new wife. I say this principally because of your characterization of here as being questioning and occasionally a bit argumentative. I also imagine that she has been through a pretty difficult recovery following her mother's death. All in all, a pretty difficult situation.

You certainly have a role to play - in that you need to make it clear to your daughter that you are firmly and permanently committed to your new wife. My guess is you have already done this - perhaps many times - and it probably ameliorates things for a brief time, but it returns to tension thereafter. Just continue to reinforce your love and commitment for your wife. Tell it to your daughter even in the presence of your wife - picking a time when tensions are not running so high. Let both of them know that you are committed to a relationship with BOTH of them.

I can imagine that it will make little tangible difference in your daughter's behavior - except for a possible temporary truce - and a great deal of that is just the age. She will continue to be problematic in this area until she is more than 18 - at least, that is my experience.

You also need to discuss the situation and it's handling with Elena - so that she fully understands your support for her and that you both will likely have a bit of a problem on your hands for another few years (at best). Elena must also understand your deep commitment and love for your daughter and your resolve to maintain a relationship with her - even during the tense times ahead.

It is a difficult situation - one that will require a delicate balance for you - between your daughter and your wife - while demonstrating commitment and love for both.

I don't envy your situation.

- Dan

... in response to Daughters and New Women in Your Life . ...., posted by Dan on Dec 21, 2001

Hi Dan,

You are right. Sometimes we need to accept a situation that is not perfect. To wait till my daughter is 18 is a long time. However, I was a little depressed yesterday night, and didn't feel good. My life with Elena and my daughter is mainly a good life even if I sometimes want more.

Thank you for your response.

How is it going with you and your Olga?

Johnny W

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Johnny,

Have a long private talk with your Elena about what how you two should approach your daughter's upbringing. Find out what common ground you two have. Build from there. You have to be a team. Your daughter will never like Elena like her mother. Your daughter should at least learn to respect your wife. You should work on gently approaching your daughter about treating Elena how she would like to be treated. Try to have your daughter imagine being in your wife's shoes of being new to the family and how she would help raise someone in your daughter's situation, who lost a mother do to tragedy. Johnny, do not give up. You can work through this. Your daughter will improve as she matures, as will Elena get used to your daughter. Respect between the two is the key thing you should foster.

Good luck.

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

You are really placing a very difficult burden on your wife, Elena. I know kids who are independent, and if they are not receptive....forget it! No, if's and's and but's about it. Kids make up their minds for their own, sometimes selfish reasons and you should wake up to that fact, right quick. Now, if for whatever reason your kid thinks Elena is "cool"...then she may open up to her. But, if the kid doesn't want to...forget it, you will only make things worse. As a nice Ukrainian friend once told me..." there are 2 hostess'es in my house." Which one will prevail? Elena can bend over backwards, but if for whatever reason, the kid doesn't really like Elena, or resents Elena----there is nothing Elena can do...except beg the kid. And that won't work at all. So, Elena is in a tough spot and may not have the skills to deal with your child. Maybe counseling?

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