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How important would those of you that are married or engaged with a FSU women is her ability to speak and/or comprehend basic English from the get go? Is it really swimming upstream to choose a woman with no English comprehension. If I do choose someone like this what approxiamtely is the learning curve for learning English, assuming I enroll her in English classes here.
Appreciated

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

I appreciate all the feedback as per the importance of your woman learning and understanding/speaking English. A quick review of the comments made seems to indicate an overwhelming agreement in this area.
As to the comment about me speaking Russian, I think that misses the point. I am not moving to Russia, she is coming here. Yes, me speaking some Russian is good but I am thinking more in terms of her assimilating into this culture and also finding employment one day. Both of which can only be accomplished with a master of the English language. This would also allow her to live a more 3 dimensional life and ie. a happier relationship for the 2 of us.
I, as are some of you, only interested in starting a potential relationship with women that have at least a command of basic english.
Thanks

... in response to Re: Importance of English II, posted by EARL on Nov 15, 2001

My viewpoint was that any woman that I pursued should have at least started to learn english and thus by the time you go to visit her, that she can speak well enough that you will be able to communicate when you are alone. Thus when I met my fiancee, we had an interpreter during the day and then we were on our own at night, w/ a little help from our Russ/Amer dictionary.
After I left she took 3 months of classes before arriving here, and she speaks very well, reads better than she speaks, but has problems w/ people that talk fast and w/ understanding people on the phone. Where as her daughter came speaking absolute minimal english and communicating w/ her beyond the basics is next to impossible.
Thus I couldn't imagine your lady getting here and only speaking a minimum amount of english, as the frustration level would be very high and there will be a lot of miscommunications and misunderstandings.

... in response to Re: Importance of English II, posted by EARL on Nov 15, 2001

I set my sights a little lower than a "command of basic english".  I was willing to consider anyone who had at least started to learn english: that showed a sufficient level of commitment / desire to me.  I met one nice woman who had been taking english lessons for a few months. We did use a translator at times, other times not.  However, she was eliminated for reasons other than  her english ability.

... in response to Re: Importance of English II, posted by EARL on Nov 15, 2001

It's about respect for your RW/UW and her culture as well as communication. Understanding Russian or Ukrainian can help strengthen the bond in your relationship and alleviate some of the assimilation difficulties by mutual participation in an exchange of cultures.

You could have a lot of fun doing it as well.

-blm

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

It is amazing how many men here expect their prospects to fluently know english without having a clue to the Russian language.  I think it is just a sign of respect to only hold these women up to the same standards we men can uphold by learning their language.  It seems most men are just quite lazy by using the excuse that just because they don't live in their country that there is no need to learn her language.  

Americans really are a lazy and complacent culture.  Sorry for the reality check in such a patriotic time but it doesn't make it any more untrue.

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

.

... in response to Re: I could always offer lessons in spyk..., posted by spyke on Nov 15, 2001

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... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

One thing to consider is assimilation of your RW/UW bride into this culture. It takes a year to learn enough of the language to get by. Russian and English are very far apart in thinking, translation, and pronunciation. Total immersion classes would help speed up the process, but they are not common in most areas.

Unless your RW/UW is fluent in English with good pronunciation, she may have trouble finding employment for a while here in the US. Learning English here in the US does have a great advantage with pronunciation. Those who learn English in Russia often have trouble with pronunciation and making themselves understood. Their accent is too thick for most Americans to hear with clarity.

Try learning to pronounce Russian correctly and you'll see what I mean. I now have a Russian tutor who teaches me 1 hour a day, 5 days a week. It's hard work.

-blm

... in response to Not important for me. I'm pretty fair in..., posted by BarryM on Nov 14, 2001

I am starting the second series LOL. My thoughts here:
if U cant understand some of of the language You will Never understand the girl/woman... there is 1 main word in Ruski
"DUSHA" means the Soul/Essance of the person!! If ever You
posess a RW's Dusha then U very lucky!!! In English would =
Soul-mate the person U cant live without!!
forgive as I wrote this under the influence of Beer so not many lessons of spyke-speak 2 B found except the end..

... in response to Re: as U got the pimsluer off me  to sta..., posted by spyke on Nov 15, 2001

I don't make illegal copies of the Pimsleur lessons. I also have Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Albanian, Bulgarian, and Azerbaijani language lessons. I don't use the translator programs. I have 2 very good Russian-English dictionaries and 3 Russian grammar books. I also have NTV. I speak/read/listen to Russian every day. I learn at least 10 new Russian words a day. I have to write at least one 7 sentence descriptive paragraph a week in conversational Russian on various topics. I should be able to write full essays by January next year. I should be be fairly fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian in about a year. In 2 years, I should be fluent in Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, and Church Slavonic. All of the Slavonic languages are closely related and share the same words in various forms.

Pimsleur is ok, but still doesn't do the job of language teaching as well as it should. The Pimsleur method may be good for Spanish, but needs to be altered for Russian language. It really misses the boat covering gender variations of many words. There are a lot of shortcomings with Pimsleur but it seems to be the best out there now.

-blm

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

I followed the rule of not writing to people who don't speak English with one exception (one of the people did not speak any English). However, with that one exception, I chose to write to someone with whom in my estimation I had a lot of other things in common. In fact, despite the language issue, we had far more in common than the other people I wrote to who spoke English well. Guess who I ended up with? The person I had the most in common with and she didn't speak a single word of English when we first met. What helped greatly was that we both speak French (me, very, very rusty at first). We had an interpreter the first few days and when she disappeared from time to time, we spoke French to each other. It was very, very hard at first on our own(I didn't use a dictionary), but rapidly we were able to communicate better and better in French. Within a week, I thought in French before I did English. And now she has since studied English for just four weeks and can actually speak the language fairly well, and it goes far beyond "See Spot run." Her ability amazes me. She speaks slowly, but very clearly and with near perfect grammar. She will slip in a few French words along with the English, though. (She teaches languages, so she has a very good ear and mind for picking languages up. What also helps is that I have long worked with people from other countries and am very patient.) When I e-mail her, I use English now and our phone conversation still is mostly French but she mixes in English spontaneously.

Probably it is very good advice to go with someone who speaks English well, but I am so glad (an extreme understatement) that I didn't follow the dictum. I say on Planet Love, follow your heart. In general, I think people in love are extremely motivated to learn languages and communicate.

... in response to Re: Importance of English, posted by Scaught on Nov 14, 2001

If two people really have some genuine feeling there then they should both be able to work on the language barrier (given time and effort)  I personally would not dismiss a girl that I liked because of a language problem.  It might take more time but who says taking your time is a bad thing anyway.

... in response to Re: Importance of English, posted by Scaught on Nov 14, 2001

Scaught,
Very cool story.  Best wishes to you and your girl.  OK, she couldn't speak English, but you both were able to communicate in SOME language (French).  Imagine how akward and frustrating it would have been if that hadn't been so.
KenC

... in response to great story, posted by KenC on Nov 14, 2001

;gzdri

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001


I recommend that one simply not even lot at so as to not get tempted with a lady that does not speak English. There are simply too many women over there to deal with that but, chance will have it that you will see a lady that really gets your attention and bingo you find yourself corresponding with a lady that does not speak English.

... in response to The best laid plans of men and mice, posted by thesearch on Nov 14, 2001

I recommend that one simply not even look at ladies that do not speak English so as to not get tempted with such ladies. There are simply too many women over there to deal with that but, chance will have it that you will see a lady that really gets your attention and bingo you find yourself corresponding with a lady that does not speak English.

... in response to correction, posted by thesearch on Nov 14, 2001

I should offer another point of view.  

My point should be this.  How many men consider looking for a RW/UW before knowing how to speak her language (even to an intermediate or somewhat beginning level)  Personally I know most men barely can speak just a few words and even then not that well.  

Some men feel compelled to learn the Russian language as they become more involved in the process but by far most men don't even start until after they begin looking.

I know for practical sake that these women should become familiar with English but maybe they are like us in the fact that they want to learn only after they make the decision to look overseas.  It just seems to be a little bit of a double standard that is set up.  

Maybe it will be a personal choice that some men make, to make their experience easier but I think you eliminate some of the most sincere ladies by setting up standards that Western Men cannot uphold themselves.

Would you want some RW/UW to eliminate you because you cannot speak her language.  Think about it.

Just another point of view to consider.
Peace brother.   Jim

... in response to Re: How about the double standard., posted by Oatmeal on Nov 15, 2001

Some people are better at languages than others. Some people are more busy than others.  The bottom line is that you need to speak the language of the country that you are going to live in. So, if a person was going to move to Russia it would be more important to learn the language for obvious practical reasons. If she is coming here, you do not need to speak Russian. However, if one chooses a lady that does not speak English one could argue that there is a reason to learn Russian to ease the transition period and to show support for her having to learn the language.

Think about this - even when two people can speak the same language, there can be incidents of major misunderstanding that only is resolved with throwing the hot potato back and forth until the real intent of the words that created the confusion is clarified

Regardless of any double standard, not being to be able to communicate effectively increases the challenge of this whole process. Who ever is the person intending to move to another country is the person who has the responsibility to learn the language if it will be their permanent residence and thus, there really IMHO is not a double standard.

... in response to Re: How about the double standard., posted by Oatmeal on Nov 15, 2001

jim, i eliminated a lot of women if they could not speak at least a little english

i tried meeting some ladies who could not speak english and it was a complete waste of time. i did not have months to get to know these women, only weeks.

yes i know this meant there were fewer ladies i could meet but those that i could, it was a lot easier in being able to communicate with

... in response to Re: How about the double standard., posted by Oatmeal on Nov 15, 2001

Jim,
It would be a double standard if the couple were to live half the time in Russia.  I offered to learn Russian, but my wife said "why bother?"
KenC

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

Not only would you be swimming up stream, but there would be some real nasty rapids waiting for you down stream.  Check out our previous discussion on this matter in the archived list under "How do you all get around the languages" at
http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/archive00122/
IMNSHO, if she is starting out at near zero level English ability, it would take a year of serious intensive study by her before she would be sufficiently proficient enough to handle the transition to life in an English only country.  If she is still only level one and can barely handle basic greetings when she steps off the plane, I would not bet dime one on her ability to endure the hardships associated with the expected culture shock.

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

I believe that learning english is a sign of sincerity.  I met one woman who knew no english.  She sent me a follow up letter in Russian to me here in the states after my trip. I never heard from here again after I told her I  would not get more involved with her unless she started to learn english.

... in response to Re: Importance of English, posted by Richard on Nov 14, 2001

Richard,
I agree with you on the lack of sincerity if the girl didn't learn at least some basic English.  I cannot understand how some girls can be with agencies for years and still have not put forth the effort to learn English.  I think it is pretty cool that some of the guys here have learned some Russian, but in the end, the woman will still have to convert to English.  How anyone can say they have a relationship with someone that doesn't speak the same language, is beyond me.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: Importance of English, posted by KenC on Nov 14, 2001

I feel the same. The way you get to know someone is through communication and verbal is the most concise. When you can not converse except through translation, there are all sorts of misunderstandings that can result also let alone the general barrier that this situation creates. All you know in these cases is that you both are interested in having a marriage partner and you like the way they smile, act, move and how they look. You are merely hoping that when you two can really communicate that you discover that you each are what the other is wanting.

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

I was not really interested in non-English speaking women.  Certainly if you expect them to come to America the ability to speak English is a necessity for her.  My wife spoke English which has improved considerably since her arrival but she worried for some time about her inadequacy in speaking English.  All things being equal, English is a big plus in my view.

... in response to Importance of English, posted by EARL on Nov 14, 2001

Most pick up english fairly quickly. Much depends on her willingness to learn and adapt.
You could, of course, have her enroll in a english class(es) there. Use caution though. Make sure she's the one
and on the up and up. Have her check around with her friends and those she works with for a reliable
instructor/school.  Price(on you) will vary widely, so also have her check on price and/or value.
Good luck.