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I have been writing to a lady for about a month. She is a physician and lives in Moscow. Communications have been good via e-mail so she asked that I call her on the phone.

I called,  said hello and basically I found silence more than anything else. The conversation was dead. She said she spoke excellent English so this was not the problem. Getting her to talk was like pulling teeth. And what few words she did say were flat without expression COLD. After a few moments I decided that this was a waste so I said to her well I guess you do not want to talk so I am going to hang up - while in my mind thinking I am not going to contact her anymore.

This got her talking. Even when these ladies say they speak excellent English they still can provide moments of challenge to fully understand them for various reasons. I was wondering why such a cold shoulder when her e-mail was not like this. She then says that she has a hard time talking to me as she does not know what to expect from me.

Well this confused the heck out of me. I ask what she means by this and  she basically lets loose on me about the type American men she has met as though she is expecting me to be the same. I was not sure if she misunderstood something I said or what to trigger this - could have been but, I was never really sure as I had to get off the phone after twenty minutes because of a prior appointment.

I ultimately came to understand that she simply was getting disgusted with American men because of her experiences and here I was another American man.

She said the following men contact her. First there are the poor men who think that because she is a doctor she would be a good meal ticket. I tried to tell her that she probably would not be able to get a license here in the USA but we never fully resolved that.

The second type of male she says only wants a house slave and sex.

A third type is a male with a high income but tells her that she has to work to pay her keep.

She basically was saying that love etc did not seem to be what American men wanted - there was always something different that seemed important to American men or that which was so businesslike about it all.

Now let me say, there is a remote possibility that this lady is a gold digger.
If this is the case she will expose this to me.

But, the point of this post is that if what this lady says is true these ladies are subjected to a fair number of men who are very questionable in their motives. Now it seems I have to deal with the after math of all of this.

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

So I guess if I were an affluent American man that was just interested in starting a family with a Russian woman before too much time slipped by, I would be put in the second catagory.  And what's wrong with liking sex anyway?  

I don't need a woman to come over here and support me.  They might want to work, they might enjoy it and it might help them adjust, but it wouldn't help me out financially.  I want a family and that make take lots of sex, but I'm willing to do it.  OK, so I'm the bad guy here for wanting kids and depriving her of her career potential.  Tell her to keep looking then until she finds what she wants.

Yes, I want love and I wouldn't put up with all this crap and the expense if I wasn't at least semi-serious about this.  If they don't want to be what we want, then tough luck.  They'll just have to keep waiting until the right guy comes along.  

Don't blame us for rejecting you if you weren't what we want.  Do women ever feel guilty when the shoe's on the other foot?

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

I just got off the phone with this lady. Although her stories are in part reflections of the truth about what these ladies are subjected to - for her it can all be discounted.

This lady is into money plain and simple. With in depth conversation it became clear that to provide the life style that she expects you would have to make about 2.5 million per year. This is no joke.

So, she is offended by reasonable average guys because they can not offer this. I told her if that is what she wants keep looking, I am not her man. She then says that she is a bad woman but she has made up her mind. However she states that the most important things to her are not material.. Right..

Ok so that is clearly not going to be a good deal even if I did make that type of money.

Well  there was a second lady that I liked. I hired a Ukrainian lady to do translations for me who lives in Ukraine. I found this lady on Kiss.com (will not be using them anymore with the changes as the conversion screwed up all my data matching letters to wrong people etc.).

This is a response that I got with my second letter to her:

Dear  sir!

Your lady Alla addressed to us to conection with the
translation. As you  know  our country is  going
through  the difficult economic situation.A lot of
people lost their job.
We give the  working  places to the  people who
speaks English  and let them  to earn money  for their
family. If we permit gentlemen  to seek the cheapest
translators we  will left our a piece of bread. We
can't allow it!
That's why if you aren't be using the help of our
translators  we will close your correspondence.
     
With respect,
Anastasia
Internet-Club Manager
                       
Now I am helping the Ukrainian economy but you know, I just smell a rat here. The lady may not even exist. So I will write to her in English and do the proper stuff to confirm that she is real. You know, sometimes this can be a lot of work.

... in response to The truth comes out and other challenges, posted by thesearch on Oct 6, 2001

Why bot send a brief letter in Russian.  You can use the internet translation web pages.  This wasy there is no fee for Translation.  What I tend to do in this case is send both English and Translated message.  You soon weed out who is making the money.  Hell I think it would be better if some of the money paid to Angencies went to the individual concerned.  I don't trust many they are more interested in marking their business then building relationships.  Mind you a successful relationship is a good promotion. In some cases they put pressure on the various couples to sign up - I think there is an extra payment if a marriage results from an introduction.  Whilst time is an importnat factor love and compatibility is just as if not more important.  I prefer to seend the money on getting to know the women and if I can not communicate directly there would have to be a very good reason.  One maybe to ensure communication is not misinterpreted.  Hell most of the translation services use a computer translation anyway, those that don't may not be too fluent in English.

... in response to The truth comes out and other challenges, posted by thesearch on Oct 6, 2001

I don't know what they're trolling for, but I think I'm smelling something fishey here.

... in response to Ah, the weekend with the fishers trollin..., posted by John F on Oct 6, 2001

n/t

... in response to thesearch is not a troll     n/t, posted by KenC on Oct 6, 2001

sd

... in response to Ah, the weekend with the fishers trollin..., posted by John F on Oct 6, 2001

It seems that this discussion is getting overblown. There is a simple answer and action to take. If you find you're communicating with a rotten RW/UW, just stop. It's not important why. There are plenty of bad women who place ads in marriage agencies. Perhaps "thesearch" needs to post the name and agency of this woman so we can avoid her. End of story.

-blm

... in response to I wouldn't worry about it., posted by BarryM on Oct 6, 2001

She was on Kiss.com and I can not even find her there anymore. Man that place sucks now. And, of course I have dropped her. I just thought that I would give everyone a follow-up simply revealing what we deal with.

... in response to Re: I wouldn't worry about it., posted by thesearch on Oct 6, 2001

.

... in response to Re: I wouldn't worry about it., posted by thesearch on Oct 6, 2001

A lot of the bigger sites have problems with scammers and insincere women. Absolute, Kiss, Cherry Blossoms, and Heart of Asia have all had a high amount of bad ads.

Since Kiss has self destructed, the only other similar agency is Absolute. Absolutes search sucks.

You should look into personal ads for better quality results. That seems to be the better way to go these days.

-blm

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

Often times these ladies exaggerate their language  ablities.  My Svetlana admitted that she was not yet skilled at English at the very first. Now she does just fine.
Are you really the shmoe that you describe in your profile?
I don't really care what these yo-yo trolls think.

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

....also there are the pauses,  the humor and the direction the telephone call takes....it is a more natural form of communication than emails.  Face to face communication is,  of course the best.

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

Search,
There is another point to consider here, the "reality" of the phone vs. email.  I feel that email is a bit detached and unreal with a strong tendancy to slip into fantasy.  Phone calls are so much more real.  Much can be made from one's voice inflections, laughs, sighs and other mannerisms.  Many of the barriers that are found in email fall once you pick up the phone.  Of course you will never get the benifits from a phone call that you would get from a personal visit, but you do get a whole lot more than a written email.  My wife, Lena, and I got to know each other very well through phone calls.  We knew each other's heart, soul and mind before we even met.

It seems as though you have come upon a RW that is very selective.  It appears as though she has high standards in what she is seeking from a man.  Believe me when I say that THAT is the best type to seek out, if you are up to the "standards."  (In your case, I know you are)
KenC
ps (We have been using Noble cards at 9 cents/min with no connection fee.  They have worked well for us)

... in response to another point, posted by KenC on Oct 6, 2001

Right now I could use a fistful of them !

... in response to Where do you get "Noble" cards..., posted by tfcrew on Oct 6, 2001

n/t

... in response to another point, posted by KenC on Oct 6, 2001

Hi Ken --  Could you please explain more about the "Noble card" you mentioned, without a connection fee?  Like where did you obtain it, cost, limitations, etc.  Will it work for Baltic states as well?  Thanks much.  (Newbie here) --  Burt

... in response to Re: another point, posted by Burt on Oct 6, 2001

n/t

... in response to see above: Noble.com        n/t, posted by KenC on Oct 6, 2001

......it's Nobel "as in peace prize".
Apparently it is $1.99 connection fee to Ukraine and the Baltics. I bookmarked them anyway per www.nobelcom.com  It's the 8 hour time difference that gums calls for me.
:(
Karl

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

...probably if she has a nice photo posted she has received countless emails.  And already had some disappointing "correspondences"...a big waste of her time and her money.  Not all the guys who write to them are genuine either.  2 nice girls I correspond with have said the samething.  Her view of men via the internet can be quite jaded.  And when posting her profile she may have had very good expectations---which internet reality quickly dispelled.  Also,  a phone conversation is a real time 2 way communication,  whereas as letter is more one way.  If her English is good you should probably talk to her.  Emails and letters can be such an illusion...a phone conversation is closer to reality.  Tim

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

Does anyone know the ratio of women to men in the various FSU counties.  I was told that in Ukraine it is about 1.4:1

The divorce rate is very high.  What is amazing is that the women have children at 24-26 yrs old are divorced soon after and their offsping are latter raised by AM/WM seeking a good wife.  I am sure I have seen a nature show where the off sping of one species is raised by another...  All the fun and no responsibility ;^)

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

I hate to say it, but it is the same story I got from both women and agency owners in Ukraine. The stereotypes were the same. The behavior the same. And there are as many idiot AM ruining the potential of this endeavor.

Steve

... in response to Re: first call to lady COLD COLD - read ..., posted by Quasimoto on Oct 6, 2001

Agreed, 100 percent.  But it all started with the RM!  I think that men in pursuit of this, must look at everything, including themselves.  Not just the RW.... they know what they want... and at least are willing to consider AM, which is a lot better than AW!

Wanting commitment, respect, and sincerity.... ready to take a risk.

... in response to Re: Re: Sentiments..., posted by BrianN on Oct 6, 2001

Perhaps I should say that the RM drive the women to dream of something better, and some AM help dash their dreams.

Steve

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Sentiments..., posted by Quasimoto on Oct 6, 2001

asd

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

Thanks another good post.  One thing that I think could be missing is that some men who are sincere have also been through the mill and I guess that the business side of it is one way of cutting to the chase.  Time is of great importance when you are looking for your better half.  Sure love is equally important  But as I have found it is important to make ones expectations and intentions clear in the first letter/contact then if this is understood lighten up and discover true love.  I can understand that there are many who have no idea of what to expect when they seek and approach a RW/UW.  Hell they proberly shouldn'y appraoch anyone.  But at the same time I guess this is where you need to make that extra effort and stand out from the pack but addressing this issues and doubts that may exisit.  I found early that just beacuse she knows that you are from a Western COuntry, knows your Job and may have seen your photo and profiel may not know you.  You should look at some of the replies these women get.  I had the chance to view some and I tell you they are not impressive.  Hell if I recived simmilar I would run a mile and cancel my subscription.  There are real loosers out there..  I just hope they don't find them.

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

that she's been dragged around by the neck by all four types.  Especially if she's a looker.  (AND especially if she's been to socials and treated like meat, interviewed as if she was trying to get a job, not a husband).

Even your particular accent could have reminded her of a particular bad experience, and set off an emotional trigger.

I've had a similar situation very recently, but it was not like this... on the telephone, it was with certain words that were spoken in email.  I've had to go back and re-read 4 months worth of emails, and pay attention to many specific things, so that I could understand where she was coming from.  I made a mistake one day by commenting a bit too much about how beautiful she was.

So, she wants to be appreciated first for mind and soul, not body, and when we meet, if we melt down, we do, if not, then we'll just go home.  

I've had to RE-appreciate what I've got here, and be sure I don't violate the spirit of communication that we have, which is all built on trust.

I may not be correct with your sit, but....

If I were in your shoes, and was seriously interested still, I'd send her a small flower arrangement, and say something like "thank you, I hope to hear from you again soon".  Or something like that... I don't know, she's not my babe... as all situations are different.

just my two cents.

... in response to Re: Could be...., posted by BrianN on Oct 5, 2001

.

... in response to first call to lady COLD COLD - read why, posted by thesearch on Oct 5, 2001

Search,
So, just what is wrong with looking for a sex slave?  LOL.  This lady's experience will only help make you look like a knight in shinning armour.  If all the AM that went looking for sweeties in Russia were great, it would suck for the rest of us.  The "great" RW want a heck of a lot more than a visa. Take advantage of YOUR position and best of luck.
KenC