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The war on terror!  The war on terror!

Well here's a little story on how our finest is fighting the war on terror this week at the airport.

My wife got her citizenship this year and is very proud of her blue beauty. (passport)

So she is coming back to the US from her 1st visit in 4 years to her family in Colombia.  They pull her aside at the Texas airport and interrogate her for 2 1/2 hours.  The stupid chinese immigration lady keeps asking for her green card.  Well she doesn't have a green card now because she is a citizen...hello moron.

I know they would not have givin her crap if I was there.  Racial abuse and profiling is alive and well in this country.

While they were interrogating my US Citizen wife for hours, several thousand illegals came over the fence.

It's just plain stupid.

Osama doesn't have to bomb us, with one attack he has everybody so paranoid and over reacting to everything, he is laughing his azz off.

... in response to The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by wayne3 on Dec 19, 2005

[This message has been edited by WS244]

Actually we do need racial profiling, particularly at airports.  What we have today is political correctness in extreme force in every facet of life in this country costing billions of taxpayer dollars.  L. Mineta, the Secertary of Transportation is Japanese descent.  He was interned in WW2 in a japanese camp, and vowed upon being secretary he would not use racial profiling.  What he does not tell you, is that the only japanese interned in camps in WW2 were the japanese from the pacific western states, Arizona, and in the rest of the country they were not forced out of their homes nor encamped.  He also does not tell of the Italians and Germans who were imprisoned either.

As i travel the airlines all over the world, our countrys airline security is a joke.  Here i see 8 year old girls and boys being frisked, 80 year old women frisked, etc etc.  TSA is wasting millions of dollars at taxpayers expense, besides hiring a quota of unintelligent people as noted in the previous post.  If one goes to France, Germany, Switzerland, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Bahrain, Doha,Russia, Japan, etc,they use profiling as in common sense, and know who they are looking for.    

With the political correctness mentality in this country we have open borders, no prayer in schools, the secularists movement, the new k visa rules, etc etc.  For all the political correctness minded,it is hippocritical to be going to Colombia or other South American Countries (who do not even have the words political correctness in their vocabulary) for a foreign bride, why not just go after AW's who already believe in this.

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by WS244 on Dec 20, 2005

I don't know if racial profilling is the right word for it,do you call muslims a race?But almosts 100%,all but a handfull of Muslim converts of the terorists are Muslim,Middle eastern,Arabs,whatever you want to call them.This is the group the terrorists come from.It makes NO SENSE to mess with anybody else and concentrate efforts onn them.AND a surprising amount of US citizen Muslims have sympathy for the Muslim extremists.
PROFILE THE HELL out of them.

Pete

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by WS244 on Dec 20, 2005

I don't think being politically correct has anything to do with it unless I understand your meaning incorrectly.  America's problems stem from a lack of common-sense and not using enough pro/cons and cost-benefit analysis.

Racial profiling is necessary in certain situations under certain conditions. America's problem stems from having asshole politicians that don't have a clue.

Has anyone thought about being proactive prior to a disaster happening such as in 9/11 or New Orleans???  In America we have gotten to the point where we are reactive instead of being proactive.  It is only when we get caught with our pants down that we do anything about it (we meaning the people in charge).

PC is an excuse...the problem being too stubborn to listen to other sides and other reasonings.

... in response to Not PC's fault..., posted by EbonyPrince on Dec 21, 2005

:-)

... in response to Not PC's fault..., posted by EbonyPrince on Dec 21, 2005

Profiling - Building a viable file or an analysis (often in graphical form) representing the extent to which something or someone exhibits various characteristics.

Racial Profiling - That (insert race) is going to do something illegal because those (insert race) are always up to no good.

"Racial profiling is necessary in certain situations under certain conditions."

Did you really mean to say that?

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by WS244 on Dec 20, 2005

:-)

... in response to Some good points!  n/t, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

Racial profiling is stupid and unreliable. Skin color has nothing to do with what people do. Social patterns and culture have more to do with actual profiling that may be productive, but it's all just general guessing. Physical mannerisms and attitudes make better potential smoking guns. I could possibly be Middle Eastern, African, South American, Afro-American, European, Canadian, or from anywhere else in the world where there are people with a brown skin tone with a change of wardobe and accent...Profile me.

Other than that slip of the tongue, the rest of it made some sense...

... in response to Yeah if you are Archie Bunker...., posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

I don't agree with strict racial profiling, but I agree that profiling is beneficial.  If it stops or lessens the likely-hood of 9/11 happening again, I am all for it.

The comment about Israel is a good one.  I still say political correctness is being used as a catch all.  It boils down to common sense.  Profiling all black males when driving through Florida is stupid.  Profiling someone of ME descent that appears suspicious is totally fine in my opinion, and that goes for anyone of any descent.  Profiling needs to be very specific.  That random crap makes absolutely no sense for screening unless your testing parts on an assembly line.  Come on what in the hell will that accomplish.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with common-sense profiling.  It is when profiling is abused is when people scream about it.

I was pulled aside and had my luggage gone through up and down in the Dominican airport on the way home.  No one else was checked out of about 150 passengers on my plane.  I took it in stride and accepted it as them doing there jobs.  I was polite and he was polite back.  I got on the plane and everything was everything.

... in response to Yeah if you are Archie Bunker...., posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

I didn’t say “I agree 100%”, did I? I said he made some good points. I’m not sure exactly what he meant by “…we do need racial profiling”, but I think the gist of his post was that they don’t use ANY profiling at the airport security checkpoints because of political correctness and the fear of angering some group or another because they “think” they are being singled out solely because of their race. I think your reaction to his post makes my point here.

I don’t and never did advocate harassment of anyone because of his or her race or skin color. Why do the security screeners use random searches, for example every 5th passenger in line, instead of using good judgement and singling out those who fit a profile of high-risk passengers? Simply because some hot-headed young Muslim male from Pakistan will yell and scream “RACISM” if he happens to be selected for further screening. Hence we end up with a system where that highly suspicious looking passenger is waved through because he wasn’t the 5th one in line, and the 6-year-old girl behind him gets the extra scrutiny.

The Israelis have a very good system where good profiling techniques are taught to airport security personnel and each agent has vast leeway in selecting those he stops to question. Passengers are treated professionally and politely but with firmness and there is no big outcry that some group is being harassed because of their skin color or racial characteristics. Why don’t we do that here? Like the man said, because of political correctness and fear of pissing off some minority group. Now THAT is stupidity!

Ray

... in response to Whoa! Relax Soltero, posted by Ray on Dec 21, 2005

It wasn't that crucial, Ray. I should have put that as a direct reply to him under his post. I just saw your title and was "typing out loud" off of it. Nothing directed at you, because I agreed with alot of it also. I just didn't like the whole racial profiling thing. If he had just said profiling, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

... in response to Yeah if you are Archie Bunker...., posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

Look lonesome here is the deal.
   Profiling was created by DEA Agent Paul Markoni. He was one of my partners at the Detroit Metro Airport. He discovered that black males with out baggage, of a certain age group, who paid cash for their tickets, going to certain cities, fit a profile that indicated drug smuggling and money laundering. His arrests were held up in Federal courts in the eighties. That added to Local southern sherrifs who were stopping rental cars with florida plates headed north driven by latins or whites alone with certain clothing descriptions began to be called racial profiling.

   When I was a Detroit Tactical Mobile Cop in the late sixties stopping a buick 225 with 4 black males in a black neighborhood at 4:00 in the morning was just good police work and often was called probable cause based on high crime areas, gang activity Correct papers etc. Just what an intelligent person would call common sense.

   But we don't have to  worry about such discriminatory practice anymore. We now have Community Policing, often called reactive rather than proactive law enforcement. The added benefit is, that if I don't search the car and find guns and drugs, no crime has been committed. The guys don't get a criminal record and can join the police department.Isn't that wonderful and great for crime statistics too. I don't piss off anyone and the politicians are happy. Don't you feel more secure now that the police will only respond if you call. Clerks with a gun. Let the computor catch the bad guys. In the Supervisors academy we had a discussion on what kind of law enforcement does the public deserve ? My response was they get what they deserve by voting for idiots. Feel safe and unmolested now? The Hooker

PS My partner and I used to make over thirty felony arrests a month, recover at least five stolen cars, find at least ten concealed weapons  and seize various narcotics while catching a few armed robers and burglers along the way. That was a normal month. Todays super clerks  are lucky to make five felony arrests a month.

... in response to Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker...., posted by jim c on Dec 20, 2005

Thanks for the history lesson Jim. Tell me how being Black makes me a criminal. I don't need anything more than a strong right arm to feel safe and unmolested. I know the difference between Profiling and Racial Profiling. There is one.

I am sure that with your history and knowledge, you do as well. What are you trying to convince me of? We don't have an argument here unless you are telling me that skin tone is a valid reason to be harrassed or suspected of a crime.

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

As you well know.  a black man in America is much more likely to be murdered by another black man.  Thus the black and Latino and white cops use skin color to affect arrests.  Thus black are targeted in there own neighborhood by there own black cops.

So it always amazes me that some people in the ghetto never seem to understand how it works.  Not to mention educated people in the same class as you and me.

If a cop sees four black males at three in the morning driving fast in the ghetto, rap music blaring he can almost be assured that they have some criminal intent or are drunk, high or some other type of infraction.

And guess what.  A black cop will be the FIRST to toss them.  Why?  Because he knows the look that yields results.  And skin color is part of it.  White cops leave it to there black partners to do the initial stop so as not to be accused of race issues.

Make it four white dudes dressed the same and in the same car and guess what?  They will get pulled too.  Why?  Because they are the wrong color.  They are there to get some dope.

Make it two couples, dressed nice of any mix and he will most likely pass them by.

Ask the local black or Latina lady in the ghetto who sells candy who are the bad guys in her neighborhood and she will give you a list in two seconds who belongs there and who is a interloper or a dealer or predator.  How does she do it?  She uses skin color. as a factor.  A big factor.

So I ask you Hermano.  Would you rather be safe in the streets or die because of political correctness?

Now apply all that I have said to Muslims.  It works the same way.

It really is that simple.

... in response to How it really works now............, posted by Heat on Dec 21, 2005

What color are Muslims? :-)

... in response to Question, posted by Ray on Dec 21, 2005

That depends on where they are from.  They range from white to black.  

But four Muslims riding in a rental truck with the back loaded down, looking for a high valued target.......... and the cop might have be what is called´.......probable cause

Know you know....

... in response to The answer......, posted by Heat on Dec 21, 2005

How will the cop know they are Muslims when he sees them riding in the truck? I don’t think you can recognize a Muslim by the color of his skin. Did they have big long beards and towels wrapped around their heads like Osama? And I thought jihadist suicide bombers were on their own when they drive the bomb. Why would there be four of them? Suicide by committee? :-)

In your post above, you said “Now apply all that I have said to Muslims. It works the same way”. O.K., I tried that but now I am confused Heat. Please help me out here. Here’s what I came up with when I substituted Muslims for Blacks in your message:

[As you well know, a Muslim man in America is much more likely to be murdered by another Muslim man. Thus the Muslim and Latino and white cops use skin color to affect arrests. Thus Muslims are targeted in there own neighborhood by there own Muslim cops.

So it always amazes me that some people in the ghetto never seem to understand how it works. Not to mention educated people in the same class as you and me.

If a cop sees four Muslim males at three in the morning driving fast in the ghetto, rap music blaring he can almost be assured that they have some criminal intent or are drunk, high or some other type of infraction.

And guess what. A Muslim cop will be the FIRST to toss them. Why? Because he knows the look that yields results. And skin color is part of it. White cops leave it to there Muslim partners to do the initial stop so as not to be accused of race issues.

Make it four white dudes dressed the same and in the same car and guess what? They will get pulled too. Why? Because they are the wrong color. They are there to get some dope.

Make it two couples, dressed nice of any mix and he will most likely pass them by.

Ask the local Muslim or Latina lady in the ghetto who sells candy who are the bad guys in her neighborhood and she will give you a list in two seconds who belongs there and who is a interloper or a dealer or predator. How does she do it? She uses skin color. as a factor. A big factor.]

Now I am confused. How did they use skin color if, as you say, Muslims come in all colors from white to black? Do Muslims listen to rap music? I didn’t know that.

Hey Heat, I’m just messing with you. I think I know what you are trying to say, but it just came across kind of weird… :-)

Ray

... in response to But..., posted by Ray on Dec 21, 2005

Ray,

There where in fact four Muslims driving around today in a rental truck in my Hood.  How do I know?  Why they had an Osama flag hanging from the mirror.  Stop them and if they smell like rose water then they are ready to bomb.

Besides all police departments now have Muslim sniffing pigs which will alert at the smell of person who has not consumed pork products in the last year.

I am surprised a smart guy like you just did not know that.

... in response to But..., posted by Ray on Dec 21, 2005

and you can shoot them.

alternatively you can carry around a cut of chorizo sausage.  you pull them over and ask them, "would you like to eat some sausage?",   if they refuse to eat your sausage then they are muslims and you can shoot them.

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

The point I was trying to make is racial profiling is a title invented by the media,lawyers and the left. Stopping someone just because of their skin tone is not profiling its stupidity. Yet every black street thug I stopped accused me of stopping him because he was black. The white ones didn't have that convienance.    

     The legal system and society are overwhelmed by excuses so that the crime is not judged by the behavior  of the criminal, but by the circumstances in the guys life that placed him before the court, from his mom to the cop who brought him in.  

   Individuals speak with their age,  behavior, clothing, choices, associations. They exhibit flags, skin color has nothing  to do with it. Cultural or social group is a better description. Cultural identity is only part of a profile it is not the entire profile of a person. Viewing all of the  attributes of a potential problem only makes common sense.

   Unfortunately we have to give up small freedoms to prevent tragedy. Ten minutes of our time or the resentment of being singled out,I believe, is a small price to pay."You can't make an omelete" jimc

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunke..., posted by jim c on Dec 21, 2005

n/t

... in response to Yeah if you are Archie Bunker...., posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

Just remember when you hear BOOM, it’s because Osama’s cousin gets on your plane and he wasn’t searched because the local TSA person didn’t think profiling was necessary. Last time I checked, little old Japanese ladies weren't trying to blow up planes. just a thought

... in response to Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker...., posted by mudd on Dec 20, 2005

Profiling due to race is for lazy idiots who are to stupid to be observant enough to do any real police work. Last time I checked, most serial killers and actual bombers were White. All this terrorist talk has the cattle running faster than an overhead crop duster. People are so simple at times it's not even funny.

Stupidity doesn't know any political party or skin color. Idiots are everywhere.

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

"Last time I checked, most serial killers and actual bombers were White."

Exactly.  And John Douglas made his FBI career by nailing them through profiling.  Throughout his books, I never came across a passage where a public outcry was mentioned over his constitent targeting of middle-aged, white dudes.  

As much as it turns stomachs, profiling is the most logical starting point in uncovering suspects and preventing crimes.  

And for the activist set, profiling is all about publicly decrying what they privately heed.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunke..., posted by doombug on Dec 21, 2005

Granted the subjects were middle aged and white, but what other factors came into play in their profiles? How many serial killers do you think he would have been able to profile off of the fact that they were middle aged and white alone? Being middle aged and white usually pointed to their socio-economic situation and how other factors pointed to the patterns of their m.o.

Those socio-economic factors are changing and paving the way for serial killers of other racial makeups. My point was and is that race is not the main factor and that profiling from a racial standpoint is misleading. Joe average hears "racial profiling" and doesn't understand that true profiling is much deeper than that. My argument is that when you start talking about racial profiling, regular people become fixated on skin and nationality and don't even go into the other factors that a true profiler has to take into consideration.

Why is everyone missing the "racial" part of my argument and focusing on profiling only? Racial Profiling and Profiling are two different things to me. I brought up the point of White serial killers to make the point that when people hear racial profiling, they never think about White people, they always think of everybody else.

I was trying to make a point. Would you call profiling a serial killer racial profiling since we agree that most serial killers are White?

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

You are right when you say that most serial killers are white.  That is what messed the Maryland cops up in 2002 with the sniper shootings. They were looking for a white male.  No one ever thought it would be two black males.  They just happened to be Muslim too.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunke..., posted by Keith NC on Dec 21, 2005

Thanks. Racial profiling is misleading. Other considerations in making a good profile usually have more to do with it than complexion. Pointing people towards a certain group causes more harm than good in that race has less to do with crime than many other factors.

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

It's obvious that you have never been in law enforcement. Profiling if for lazy idiots? Writing about stuff you have no clue about makes you sound like the idiot.  Thanks for your simple post. It keeps me amused on how some people have simple minds.

Thanks

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunke..., posted by Joeylikey on Dec 20, 2005

I am glad that I could return the favor. Many of your posts have amused the hell out of me as well. I was specifically referring to racial profiling, and yes, I think it is lazy and stupid. Considering the fact that most of your major crimes are comitted by White males, RACIAL profiling doesn't make much sense. Read all the words next time Joey, and thanks for all of your hilarious posts. Keep 'em coming...

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

your posts  are usually great  but the reality of the world is YES profiling is necessary and does make sense..

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunke..., posted by gcman on Dec 20, 2005

Again, Racial Profiling and Profiling aren't the same thing to me. Maybe I am wrong. I don't have a problem with Profiling, and I do believe it is neccesary and works. I just don't see where profiling people by nationality or complexion actually works. That's just bigotry being disguised as police work.

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

Hermano,

But reality is another thing.  As you have stated.  Most serial killers are white men.  

Cops use that profile to hunt the guys who do those crimes.  To factor it out is just stupid.

Most Meth users are white.  When I see a white dude in the ghetto in a nice car tooling the  streets I know he is not looking to pick up his date for the night........ he wants crack.

All cops I know including the Latinos, black and Asian cops use racial profiling.  They just can not admit it.

Why.. Because it works.

Muslims are blowing up people now.  My daughter could pass for Muslim.  Brown skin ect.....

She might get tossed for inspection or another type of crime if other factors are present.  

I have no problem with that.  That is the world we live in.

... in response to Or just a good cop...., posted by Heat on Dec 20, 2005

When my son was in Real estate he had an appointment to show a condominium in a very bad area.He parked and waited for the client.A black woman came up,said "anything I can do for you?"He says "no." She says "what are you doing here then?" She presumed a young white guy in a BMW in a black neigborhood was looking for what she was selling,drugs he presumed,she didn't look like a hooker.

Pete

... in response to Or just a good cop...., posted by Heat on Dec 20, 2005

I agree with you, and know that you know what you are talking about. Profiling is necessary and works. I just think that RACIAL profiling isn't that accurate. The white guy in the nice car in the ghetto analogy works, but that guy is sticking out like a sore thumb. Just because someone is brown doesn't mean that he is about to blow something up. Watching him to see if he may exhibit other characteristics may be a wise move, but locking him up for being brown is silly. It's just when someone starts saying blanket stuff about a group of people makes me nervous. I could be very easily profiled because of my race and I am just as American as anybody else here. I just want to be sure that people remember the fact that other factors need to be present as you said.

... in response to Re: Re: Yeah if you are Archie Bunker......, posted by soltero on Dec 20, 2005

I think that the terrorists are smart enough to figure out that we are now looking for middle eastern men in their mid twenties to early thirties....I'd assume that they would find people  who do not fit this profile to do their despicable acts.

By the way, I really don't have a lot of faith in the TSA personnel, they are the same idiots that we had at the checkpoints prior to 911, just wearing a different uniform. One of my ex's friends works for TSA at LAX, he would have a problem finding his way out of a closet with the light on.

Overall, I agree with Soltero  that racial profiling is a waste of time.

... in response to The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by wayne3 on Dec 19, 2005

That's nothing man. I get "randomly" selected EVERY single trip I take upon arrival at Bush Intl in Houston. Last time I gave them sarcastic comment about how incredible it was that I've been randomly selected for the 6th time IN A ROW & what are the mathematical odd of THAT? I guess they see long hair & leather or if I don't shave & must think I have drugs or something.
My last trip out of Amsterdam I got treated REALLY badly by the security there over my boots. They actually held the flight back & I actually got rude with security which was a mistake. They gave me crap about "who knows you might drugs on YOU.". Excuse me biatch I'm in a country where prostitution & drugs are LEGAL & you are worried about me carying drugs OUT of your country?! Go figure man.

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by Frank O on Dec 20, 2005

I have actually taken quite a few trips abroad, and to Amsterdam as well. I have never had a problem in my travels to Europe and one to Asia, I have always had my problems coming back into the states. I have cleared customs in NYC,LA, and San Francisco, always with nothing to declare, yet I am always the one being sent for the extra search, and delay tactics, twice missing a connecting flight because of this. One time, I raised so much hell, I was almost arrested. I could have simply said that I was either in the military,or a professional football player, as most people tend to think when they have seen me, why else would a single young black man be travelling abroad? Could be that I am a tax paying law abiding citizen?? Impossible n'est pas? I think profiling of any kind is not acceptable. Though I do feel that law enforcement should realize the fact that in today's society,that ANYONE can be a terrorist, and they should be prepared to deal with whomever, when the time warrants. Does the name TIMOTHY MCVEIGH, ring a bell? Where would he fit in this profiling equation?

... in response to Re: Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by FanMan on Dec 21, 2005

Black people do not blow up buildings in this country, where as white people as in the timothy mcveighs do. The FBI know this, and the result is racial profiling. The majority of gangs are the latinos and black people in this country, the FBI know this and profile accordingly. This once again shows the hipprocracy of U.S. political correctness laws, for in any U.S. prison these gangs still abound, though in supposedly sterile and politically correct equality mandated institutions.

TSA require all races be flagged due to political correctness compliance. As most travelers to/from Europe are white, TSA will target minority travelers to comply with their correctness quotas.

... in response to The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by wayne3 on Dec 19, 2005

She is still better off then the hispanic man coming from Colombia who was shot and killed last week by the US Marshall.  All the passenger witnesses said they never heard the word "bomb".  The only one who said he  heard "bomb" was the federal agent.  All of the newspapers of our controlled press immediately say it was a justified shooting without any investigation or evidence.  There was also the shooting of the innocent Brazilian man in the London subway.  I believe both of these were deliberate murders.  If you are Hispanic or look hispanic you should be very careful in any American airport.

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

I get searched everytime I fly out of LAX. Even though it's a hassle I understand it and just except it as a part of traveling. Last time I went the DEA was waiting for me. Their questions delayed my return to my comfortable bed, but I appreciate that they are doing their jobs. Was I being profiled. Single male traveling to SA with minimal baggage? Absolutely. But if I saw someone like me traveling, even though I think I look normal, I would stop me and ask a few questions. Just be respectful and feel good that they are doing their jobs.

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

Did you know that the Air Marshall who shot your buddy was also Hispanic? There goes your "deliberate murder" conspiracy theory :-)

You said "All of the newspapers of our controlled press..."
Who might this be who is controlling “All” of our newspapers? Aliens from outer space maybe?

Oh well, at least our resident idiot agrees with you... LOL!

... in response to Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

Isn't if funny. All wackos always think that it is a conspiracy. Must be those aliens.

... in response to Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

[This message has been edited by valuedcustomer]

When an innocent man is shot and the press goes along with the fragil official version without asking any serious questions, that's a controlled press.  They are more like puppy dogs than reporters.  Anyone who follows the US press daily and compares it to foreign and alternative sources will start to see how controlled, uncritical, and censored it is.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001699287

... in response to Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

Where is your evidence?

You still didn't tell us who is controlling all of our newspapers. And now you say the U.S. press is uncritical and censored? That’s ridiculous! Controlled by whom? Censored by whom? Give us some names.

And please explain the motive for the "deliberate murder" of Alpizar. You implied that he was murdered because he was Hispanic. Do you have ANY real evidence to back up your wild claims?

Or do you possibly mean that the press is controlled, uncritical, and censored simply because it doesn't agree with your personal opinions and biases?

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

I think the Air Marshall was sitting there bored and thought to himself, "You know what, I feel like shooting and killing a Hispanic man today. There's one." I think it's the aliens controlling our press from Pluto. Maybe the Air Marshall was an Alien sent here to start a war with Hipanics. We should address our anger toward the people from outer space.

... in response to Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

For starters, the American mass media is controlled by a handful of mega corporations, including the biggest Time Warner, followed by Viacom, Disney, NBC Universal and Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation which owns Fox Television Network.  A few names: Norman Pearlstine, Gerald Levin, Sumner Redstone, Robert Murdoch, Samuel Newhouse.  The three major newspapers: Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal.  I will leave it to you as an exercise to look up the interlocking controlling directors and major shareholders of these handful of corporations.  The owners of the mass media are so few it really doesn't take that much to control... if an editor doesn't want something in the newspaper it doesn't get in... and reporters know what is permissible subject matter without being told and they want to keep their jobs.  Keep in mind that corporations are dictatorships and not democracies.  In the past, there were hundreds of independent newspapers .. but no more.
   
Below is an interesting website to begin research.  This website documents how public relation firms are employed by governments and business to create "false news" and how the government puts journalists on its payroll.  It also documents how memos are circulated in Fox News specifically instructing their staff which propaganda points they must emphasize during the day.

http://www.prwatch.org/

Why did they murder an innocent man?  To teach us to obey or die.  As the editor of the Boston Herald gloated  "The shooting of a passenger on an American Airlines flight bound for Orlando is a reminder to passengers harping on frustrating lines at security checkpoints, that aviation security is a deadly serious business."  Didn't you read the link I gave you?

Is there censorship in the media?  Show me one link to a webpage of Fox news which has a picture of an Iraqi child injured by a US bomb in a hospital.  This is subject matter known to be censored by Fox news.  Prove me wrong.

And why is it so far fetched to believe a man was deliberately murdered in a society where people are so deliriously happy that an innocent man was killed.  They have the bloodlust of frightened kittens who feel that they are being protected by a shoot first and ask questions later policy.  I haven't heard any sympathy from you for an innocent man.  Sick.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005


There may not be a conspiracy as such in the media but there's a predictability to how the news is reported. This is an interesting read from a few years back.

http://www.sobran.com/hive/hive.shtml

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

I'm sorry, but to imply that the American press censors any criticism of law enforcement is just plain silly. I don't know where you've been, but ask some law enforcement people if they agree with your "uncritical" press theory.

And to proclaim that those air marshals deliberately murdered an innocent man to teach us all a lesson is just crazy, unless you have some REAL evidence to back up your claim. I think conspiracy theorists are mostly a bunch of nut cases myself.

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

"Below is an interesting website to begin research. This website documents how public relation firms are employed by governments and business to create 'false news' and how the government puts journalists on its payroll."

And PR Watch is on the payroll of who?  

I've got a bad habit.  I ALWAYS read the "About Us" portion of a website, do some "background" on their "background," and try and uncover who's truly holding the purse strings.  In the case of PR Watch, they weren't shy in hiding it:

--Bydale Foundation
A few of their other top grantees:  Earth Action Network; Greenpeace

--Careth Foundation
Other top grantees:  South African Reparations Movement; National Emergency Committee for a New U.S. ("Funding was provided for the Committee's first campaign entitled, the National Campaign to End U.S. Military Aid to Israel."); International Media Project ("The International Media Project received a grant for its Globalization Desk, which focuses on covering issues around global insecurity, ecological degradation, human rights, militarization, and other issues relevant to U.S. policies.")

--Carolyn Foundation
Sample grantees:  Organic Consumers Association; Friends of the Earth; Land Stewardship Project; Environmental Defense

--CS Fund
Sample grantees:  American Civil Liberties Union; Center for International Environmental Law; Earthjustice; Indigenous Peoples Council on Biocolonialism

--Deer Creek Foundation
Sample grantees:  Union of Concerned Scientists ("A radical green wolf in sheep’s clothing."); Environmental Media Services ("EMS is the communications arm of leftist public relations firm Fenton Communications.  [EMS]...spoon-feeds the news media sensationalized stories, based on questionable science, and featuring activist 'experts.'")

--DJB Foundation
Sample grantees:  Tides Foundation & Tides Center ("The Tides Foundation is quickly becoming the 800-pound gorilla of radical activist funding."); Environmental Research Foundation ("Our main goal is to strengthen democracy by helping people find the information they need to fight for environmental justice in their own communities."  Inspiration:  Rachel Carson.  Search Carson/DDT ban/spread of malaria)

--Foundation for Deep Ecology ("Economic globalization needs to be reversed if we are to achieve ecological sustainability."
Sample grantees:  Indigenous People's Council on Biocolonialism; Friends of the Earth; Sierra Club Foundation; Rethinking Tourism Project

--Richard & Rhoda Goldman Fund
Sample grantees:  Feminist Majority Foundation; American Civil Liberties Union Foundation, Inc.; Abortion Access Project, Inc.; Environmental Defense; Earthjustice

--Grodzins Fund
Sample grantees:  Center for Science in the Public Interest; Center for Media & Democracy

There's more, but I'll cut if off right there.  I've come full circle anyways.  Note the very last entry--Center for Media & Democracy (aka, prwatch.org).  An activist watchdog site--www.activistcash.com--has this to say about this beacon of unbiased "investigative reporting":

"The Center for Media & Democracy (CMD) is a counterculture public relations effort disguised as an independent media organization. CMD isn’t really a center it would be more accurate to call it a partnership, since it is essentially a two-person operation.

"Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber operate, as do most self-anointed progressive watchdogs, from the presumption that any communication issued from a corporate headquarters must be viewed with a jaundiced eye. In their own quarterly PR Watch newsletter, they recently referred to corporate PR as a propaganda industry, misleading citizens and manipulating minds in the service of special interests. Ironically, Rampton and Stauber have elected to dip into the deep pockets of multi-million-dollar foundations with special interest agendas of their own."

PR Watch...objective???

To Michael Moore, sure.

 

 

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

Liberals.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Another Conspiracy Theory?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

you are  sick and not very bright

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

Get off this issue. I guess you were there at both places and witnessed everything. Interesting. Go back to reading your liberal newspapers because it seems you believe everything you read.

... in response to Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 20, 2005

Well, Well, Well!!!!  Another reasonable person!  Let´s see how long it takes Heat and Ray to jump all over you!

... in response to Re: Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 20, 2005

N_T

... in response to Re: Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 20, 2005

So as not to disappoint you here I am.  But tell us why you came to America.  And why you did not know the Air Marshall was a Latino.  Maybe you can not read stuff like that in the Haitian news.

... in response to Re: Re: The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 20, 2005

If that's reasonable our country is in dire trouble. Thank god the majority of people don't think like the ignorant people that you are.

... in response to The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by wayne3 on Dec 19, 2005

“While they were interrogating my US Citizen wife for hours, several thousand illegals came over the fence.”

There is no fence (yet). Unless they happened to sneak across in San Diego, but not the section by the sea where the Democrats won’t let them finish the fence, they probably just strolled over the border like most do. I wonder why the Republicans are pushing to finish the fence here but the Democrats are fighting it? Potential voters, I guess…

Did they give your wife any hint why they were holding her for so long? Probably suspected her of drug smuggling… or maybe nail-clipper smuggling? :-)

Ray

... in response to Correction, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

Ray

Not building that fence just makes good economic sense. Two Republicans just set up a guest worker amnesty program for the illegals.

No sense in sending the economic refuges mixed messages and besides that fence won't keep them out anyway. Worst case scenario is they get hurt climbing over the fence and we'll have to take them to the hospital. LOL !!

Sorry Ray. I wish I shared your enthusiasm for this topic but there are already 10 million or so illegals living here. To bad you weren't in public office thirty years ago when something could have been done.

The last thing we need is a big fence a thousand miles long. If we build a fence, it will only keep the 10 million or so illegals that we have now from going to visit their families over the holidays, knowing that they will have to climb over it when they come back. hehehe!!

... in response to Re: Correction, posted by Calipro on Dec 20, 2005

LOL! We could always install those one-way turnstiles every quarter-mile along the fence. That way they can easily get out but can't come back in...

... in response to Re: Re: Correction, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2005

Like the scene from "Blazing Saddles"

... in response to The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by wayne3 on Dec 19, 2005

The next thing you are going to be telling us is that Bush has your phone tapped. hehehe !!

... in response to The 3rd degree at the airport, posted by wayne3 on Dec 19, 2005

When you re RIGHT, you are RIGHT

Whole country is on the path to the Gutter !