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This is directed to all the men who brought married women from SA. How long on did it take for your wife to be able to communicate with your friends and family members in english and was she in english school full time studying everyday? Is you wife average or above average intelligence?

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

My wife learned in about one year.  She is above average with her memory - which seems to be key.  In 6 months she was pretty good, in a year she was working at a bank.

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

Lack of education doesn't mean a lack of intelligence...

... in response to Lack of education..., posted by EbonyPrince on Dec 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by WS244]

Yes correct, however education does not equate to class and character either.  Something the educators fail to address in our politically correct society, where in their thinking the only requirement for success and equality is education.  Just look at the Enron debacle with highly educated people nothing more than common thieves and bandits.  
 
Many Colombians have professional educations, which really means nothing, as there are not enough slots in their profession available for them even in Colombia.  Also no matter their degree of profession, they still would have to comply with U.S. qualifications to practice their profession in the states.  Which means if one wants a professional woman as a wife, who would further want to pursue her career in the states, then one will be expected to finance her further education here.  This is amusing for me as many posters want a demur latin wife, but on the other hand will spend thousands of their dollars to have her as their equal, (tonight i wash the dishes but tomorrow you wash the dishes) There are already many AW's available here with this attitude and qualification.  If a woman is a professional, then her work comes first as she does not have time then to also be the demur wife.  

A little different subject.  In Colombian cities they have what they call "estradas".  Estradas may be numbered from 1 to 7 for example.  This has to do with the rates people pay for electricity and gas utilities.
The higher the estrada number means the more affulent population and housing areas. The higher estradas basically subsidize the utility costs of the lower estradas.  If one wants to have an idea what class their new found girl is, just ask what estrada she lives in.  While this does not mean everything, at least it gives one a basic idea of the family class he is about to be dealing with. (estrada 1 to 3 are very poor to the very lower middle class, estrada 4 to 5 middle class, and estrada 6 and up upward middle and high class)  In Colombia public schools they do not teach english.  The higher class Colombians all go to private schools which teach english, and which are expensive even by U.S. standards.  Colombia does have some excellent public universities, though again the higher class go to private universities.

... in response to Re: Lack of education..., posted by WS244 on Dec 21, 2005

WS you trip me out with that politically correct phrase...lol.  There's nothig wrong with being politically correct as long as your are genuine.

You wrote: "look at the Enron debacle with highly educated people nothing more than common thieves and bandits."

RIGHT ON POINT!!!

You wrote: "Many Colombians have professional educations, which really means nothing, as there are not enough slots in their profession available for them even in Colombia."

I read something like this about the Ukraine/Russia in the European section.  I guess there are a lot of things that we take for granted such as getting a job without even having to present a resume.  This shoots down my education question unless the person is gainfully employed and responsible.

You wrote: "The higher the estrada number means the more affulent population and housing areas."

This is very good information. In America I would definately choose a partner based on class and probably education, but I am trying to be more politically correct and get away from that.  Race is totally not a factor for me in selecting a partner.  Class-wise I haven't had much success when I try to be fair-minded about education and class.  From my experience, where you grow up is most-of-the-time directly related to how you conduct yourself.  Sure family has a lot to do with this also.  

Dealing with a different country and culture, should I do things different than what I would do here?  It seems that you're saying I should forget about what I know and learned here, because I am dealing with a different situation. Is there a difference among the classes as far as character of individuals?  I am asking because the rules here probably don't apply there.

... in response to Re: Lack of education..., posted by WS244 on Dec 21, 2005

"The higher class Colombians all go to private schools which teach english"

I dated a girl from an extremely wealthy family in BAQ, and her English was virtually non-existent.  She had very minimal exposure to English classes in Colombia.

... in response to That word "ALL" is "alway..., posted by Looking4Wife on Dec 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by WS244]

I am familiar with Bogota and here the higher class families of today send their kids to private schools. Reason among others is for english.  Maybe in BAQ in her circumstance it was different.  If she is over 35, in the old days private schools did not teach english in Colombia, with few exceptions.  Also the higher class families as a rule would send there kids overseas to Spain, Europe, the U.S. for a year for schooling.

Estradas as previously mentioned i should clarify.  If there is a estrada 4 per example, let us say a builder wants to come in and build new apartments, well then if enough apartments are built, then the estrada will be changed to an estrada 5.  Usually in an original estrada 4 as above, there are private homes, old business buildings the builder has bought up to demolish then build upon.  Now if the original people in estrada 4 were renting, etc. well if they could not afford to live in a new apartment just built, they would move to an estrada they could afford.  They do not change estradas for the sake of changing them, unless there is new construction involved.

... in response to Re: That word "ALL" is "a..., posted by WS244 on Dec 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by utopiacowboy]

The people in my wife's barrio did challenge the strata change successfully and the strata change was not the result of new construction.

... in response to Not quite true Senor, posted by utopiacowboy on Dec 21, 2005

My post was in reference to Bogota, other cities may have a different game plan.  In Bogota the barrios lose.

... in response to That word "ALL" is "alway..., posted by Looking4Wife on Dec 21, 2005

This is my experience as well. I would NOT equate a knowledge of English with a higher social class in Colombia.

... in response to Re: Lack of education..., posted by WS244 on Dec 21, 2005

when asking ones estrato as this is not something people freely declare, especially if she lives in an estrato 2 or 3, you are basically asking her how poor or wealthy she is. most people live in 3 or 4, with 5 and 6 being the wealthy. if you really must know just pick her up at her place and check out the neighborhood. also, keep in mind that because there is no such thing as job security or protection in colombia, people move from one estrato to another with the loss of a job or when they don't get paid for weeks on end. one minute you can be in 5 and the next in 3, so where a person lives doesn't speak to who they are or where they have been.
JK

... in response to be very careful, posted by jediknight on Dec 21, 2005

Yes, there is a general correlation between wealth and strata but you have to be careful. To Colombians a higher strata doesn't always mean a nicer barrio with a better class of people. It can simply mean higher tax and utility bills. The city was going to change the designation of my wife's Medellin barrio from Strata 4 to Strata 5. They organized and fought it tooth and nail before winning a victory in having the barrio remain Strata 4. There were not going to be any improvements in the barrio - the only reason for changing its strata level was its proximity to Laureles and the feeling that the population could pay the higher bills. So in Medellin you can fight City Hall and win.

... in response to be very careful, posted by jediknight on Dec 21, 2005

I would have been dumb enough to ask...Thanks.

There's a lot to learn but I guess that could make it fun.

I am already getting a lot of good information from this board.

... in response to be very careful, posted by jediknight on Dec 21, 2005

Yes i agree one may not get a girl to say what estrada she is from, and when one visits her may well find she is in a diffeent estrada.  My proposition though is "the more one knows before one goes" is just one more check, and this is another viable check in the scheme of things.  I am not saying just because a woman comes from a poor neighborhood she is not worthy, like "Eliza" from "MY fair Lady", but in the end a less likely chance of success.  
Also most american men going south are fairly stable in their careers, class, and except for the ones looking for a playboy centerfold, would prefer one would think, to find a woman of the same class.  In the environment there today things are pretty stable, so even if she does not have a job, she is probably living with her family anyway, and in todays Colombia economy families are not playing musical houses.  Again just because she says has a degree in a certain profession does not necessarily mean she is ones wife material.

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

[This message has been edited by utopiacowboy]

My wife definitely has above average intelligence. She is a professional chemical engineer. After almost two years here she is just now beginning to be able to communicate in English. It will probably take another three or four years before she can speak English well enough to work in her profession again. Of course we live in South Texas and many of our friends can speak Spanish as I do. She took ESL classes for the past year, twice a week at night for 2 hours a night and twice during the day for three hours each. Unfortunately the classes tend to focus on grammar instead of quickly attaining a certain proficiency in speaking and listening.

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

My wife is brilliant.  She married me.

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

My wife studied English for a few months in Peru before arriving here in July. She just passed her Level 2 English class here at the community college and begins Level 3 in February.

She really wants to learn the language as quickly as possible so she can get a job and finish her degree. While I speak some Spanish..I make it a point to only communicate with her in English. Her English class is three hours a day plus a retired teacher works with her another hour everyday with her homework.

Remember...when you are learning a new language...you understand more then you can speak. I would say my wife is speaking English right now on a "eight year old" level and understanding on a "twelve year old" level if that makes any sense..... So..she is able to communicate with my family and friends...just nothing to advanced right now...

She has made tremendous progress since she arrived here five months ago and I am very proud of her....

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

My wife had a decent grasp of English on arrival.  She had studied it in school and brushed up when she started corresponding with gringos.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of learning English as a second language.  It's definitely harder to learn than Spanish as a second language.  I suspect a significant percentage of Latin women never reach full fluency in English.  You might want to adjust any expectations downward.

My wife's English is actually getting worse now.  She's speaking only Spanish all day long with our daughter trying to teach her the language whiles she's still very young and capable of achieving full fluency in two languages.  Seems to be working so far, but it's a bit of a struggle competing with English cartoons.

... in response to Question for the married men , posted by Nevergivingup on Dec 20, 2005

"Is you wife average or above average intelligence?"

Funny...people mistake lack of education for stupidity. Did you mean to ask how educated the woman was or did you really just ask if some guy married a dumb chick?

or were you implying that her inability to speak English may be related to her intelligence? How's your famliy's Spanish? (or yours?)

In all seriousness, one of the biggest issues you will have will be her relating to your family and friends and issues with communication.