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Hello my friends wifes niece is involved with some ( obviously) shady character in Bogota  who wants to charge her $2k to get her the necessary documentation to get a US tourist visa. This documentation includes bank info, marriage license, whatever it takes to associate this penniless girl with him. This guy does this for a living and yes I am 100% against it, but this girl is desperate to get here and be with my friends  wife, her aunt who is like a mother to her. He told me to find out :
1)  What if his girl was able to actually get a legitimate US Tourist Visa Stamp on the Passport in Bogota( remember she is only 21 or so) would this VISA pass muster at both borders, considering she will not be bringing any money with her as a real tourist does? Basically she is your classic overstayer- young, broke no assets in Colombia whatsoever and on a so called tourist visa.  She speaks no English  and unless she is really lucky she will get the 3d degree at the Border.These fake documents will allegedly prove that she has money in Colombia to the US Embassy in Bogota, but the Miami Border Guards are a different story.  I told him even if she made it out of Colombia, the chances of her getting past the beady eyes of the Dept of Homeland Security in Miami are very slim. If she gets caught, what are the consequences to her? Will she be jailed? Deported? And of course, will this ruin her chance forever like I think of LEGITIMATLEY coming to  the USA? My friends Colombian wife is a USA Citizen and in time ( a long time, yes) she could eventually come. But, like all young people, she does not wat to wait.

2) The shady characater IMHO is a ripoff. Has anyone out there hear of such BS? I think this guy can say bye bye to his $2k and not even see this girl in the US.

Thoughts?

... in response to Help!, posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

I know people who know people who do this, although the fee is higher.  Do people get over here with a tourist visa obtained through those means?  Sure they do, but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it.  Remember, as with any visa, the border agent has the final say.  -TNC

... in response to Help!, posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

I know of a case where a fake visa was bought.For $7000,not $2000.The person was able to board a plane but when she got to New York INS figured it out and sent her butt back,with the 10 year ban I presume.Be carefull,if you are connected to it you are commmiting a felony,not to be taken lightly.Better go the fiance or spousal visa,legal but slow,or you could have trouble for years to come.

Pete

... in response to Help!, posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

How stupid is our system.

Millions of illegals coming across the border and our INS has time to screw with us.  As US Citizens we should be able to invite anybody we want as a guest, and financially vouch for them for a visit.  It really pisses me off that it's such a hassle for me to bring over my wife's family, or her best friend for a visit.

The border is such a cluster fck that I think they should take all the INS out of the airport, and put them on the barbed wire.  If the immigrant can afford a ticket, don't even bother,,,, consider all the illegals crawling under the fence.

In other words, go after the big problem first.

Just my .02

... in response to Re: Help!, posted by wayne3 on Dec 12, 2005

I challenge all you guys (Ray, Mudd, Wayne, etc.) to put your money where your mouths are and run for political office.  Then you can actually put your ideas and words into action!!!

You guys seem to think that the problem is all in the southwest and is with just Mexicans.  Here in south Florida, we have bodies of Haitians and Cubans trying to enter the US illegally washing up on beaches MONTHLY.  Just last week 3 bodies washed up on a Broward county beach.  Every week, the CG intercepts an overloaded boat full of Cubans or Haitians on its way to our shores.

In case you don't follow the news, 2 days ago an American of Jordanian descent ws arrested for masterminding an immigrant smuggling ring that brought in Iraqis and other Mid-easterners into the US.  He apparently had been doing this for the past 4 years and had made millions of dollars.

After you finish the wall along the Mexican border, are you going to build another one along the Canadian border????  Are you aware that many peopple who are refused visas or entry to the US, often try again by entering Canada legally and then entering the US illegally from Canada???

You guys are very supportive of law enforcement and see it as a panacea for all that ails society.  But have you never heard of corruption????  Do you sincerely believe that all the drugs that enter the US is due solely to drug dealer ingenuity and LE understaffing?  Do you sincerely believe that NO LE officers are being paid to let drugs into the US???  Do you sincerely believe that NO Border Patrol or Immigration officers are being paid to let illegal immigrants into the US???  Do you sincerely believe that NO politicians are being paid by business lobbyists to let stand the status quo of allowing illegal immigrants into the US???  

Has it ever ocurred to you guys that there is little effective effort being applied to this situation, not because there is a lack of hare-brained suggestions that would make Nazis blush and start a new X-files series, but rather because the problems are TOO BIG for the US to deal with right now along with other BIG problems the US faces right now???  I.e. that illegal immigration is simply a low priority for the majority of Americans?

Do you talk like this with your foreign wives and girlfriends?  What do you think their reactions might be to your suggestions that the US coercively implant electronic devices in some of their relatives?

Again, go public with your ideas.  Run for office!!!  See if you get elected!

... in response to Action!  ... not Words, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 14, 2005

Boy, you just don't get it. According to your beliefs, let's just get rid of all law enforcement since they are all corrupt. Do me a favor, go run for office where all you liberals can sit around and bitch at everything.

... in response to Re: Action!  ... not Words, posted by Joeylikey on Dec 15, 2005

It's called New Orleans. Look what 60 years of liberal utopia got those poor people.

... in response to Re: Action!  ... not Words, posted by Joeylikey on Dec 15, 2005

Yep! He'll never get it. Just another pathetic whining leftist who never passes up an opportunity to bash law enforcement people.

He never has anything positive to say about our country or it's government and he still hasn't gotten over the trouncing that the libs took in the recent elections.

Do you know how to tell when he is really upset and his blood is boiling? Just look for the long strings of exclamation points and question marks in his posts. That’s a sure sign that we are getting to him… ROFLMAO!

Ray

... in response to The Nattering Nabobs of Negativism, posted by Ray on Dec 15, 2005

I couldn't agree with you more. I am proud to live in this country in good or bad times.

... in response to Action!  ... not Words, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 14, 2005

In case you didn’t notice, there was a national election last year and the sniveling liberals LOST! That’s why OUR ideas our being voted on in the congress, not YOURS!

When are you going to quit your whining over the results of the elections? You lost so get over it…LOL!

Ray

... in response to Action!  ... not Words, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 14, 2005

The public in general is stupid, when you take a person, separate him from a crowd, explain or teach him something, they get it, but as a whole, the public is self centered and narrow minded. this country used to be" for the majority" now it’s for the "minority"

The problem is a whole country issue, like you stated, illegal Middle Eastern and Chinese coming from Canada with a wide open border and the boat crossers from Hati and Cuba, you cant win with the current system and people in place. Terrorists know this, and sooner or later, you’re going to hear a BOOM, and then, everybody will start pointing fingers saying “you didn’t do enough” cant do anything with one hand tied behind your back.

like I said, pass laws that actually do something and enforce them, but that will never happen, too many bleeding hearts and lawyers here to say, "hey illegal’s have the same rights as we do"  and as for me running for country, would never get elected, government, big business and the bleeding hearts wouldn’t stand for it. Nobody like a person who "rocks the boat"

to be honest, if they are caught entering illegaly, put them in jail, put them on a  "chain gang" digging ditches, doubt after a year of hard labor for free, they would return.

... in response to Re: Action!  ... not Words, posted by mudd on Dec 14, 2005

"The public in general is stupid"

*****

"Men In Black" (1997)

Tommy Lee Jones ....  Agent K (Kay)
Will Smith ....  James Edwards/Agent J (Jay)/"Slick"

Jay: Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it.
Kay: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.

*****

They probably know our weaknesses better than the sum of all of us here. I assume that it's only a matter of time before we are slapped with a sudden and rude awakening to the "real" world. Hope I'm wrong.

*****

I assume that the majority of us here are also completely unelectable for a variety of reasons.

*****

Ross Perot was the closest thing feassible to possibly being elected to higher office. He certainly rocks the boat. So does John McCain, and he's toned it down lately.
Whether we agree with specifics and issues, or not, I think there are some clear advantages to having someone who does indeed rock the boat. The posturing has already been going on for 2008. Bring back Pat Paulson? At least that was fun.

... in response to Re: Re: Action!  ... not Words, posted by CelticUrge on Dec 14, 2005

One former poster here DID run for public office and WAS elected.

Years ago, an agency owner named Tom Alciere (Surname spelling may by incorrect.) was elected to a state legislature.  He had an agency in the Dominican Republic.  He was a right wing extremist like many guys here.

His tenure was notable because he sponsored legislation that brought national attention to him.  He was the subject of a few national news articles.  Unfortunately for him, all the attention was very negative.  I understand he didn't try to run for re-election.

... in response to Electable, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 15, 2005

Not familiar with this guy. Was he from Florida or the DR? How long ago?

Growing up in south Florida, I recall one year, I think it was 1972, possibly as late as 1975. Took the Turnpike north heading for UF at Gainesville. All the hand dryers at rest stops had a phrase scratched in the paint "Press button and listen to a message from our Governor".

Funny at the time. Still works for me! LOL

... in response to Re: Electable, posted by CelticUrge on Dec 15, 2005

He was American.  He served in the New Hampshire or Maine state legislature from 2001 to 2003.

His agency was called "Select one, She's Yours."  It no longer operates.  I remember it because he had a rule that only male US citizens could use his agency because only US citizens can petition for the fiancee visa.  At the time I was not yet a US citizen and his rule perturbed me.

He often ranted about government intervention in private decisions.  He was also on LWL, that is where I read most of his posts.  I read his posts from late 1998 to late 2000.

... in response to Re: Help!, posted by wayne3 on Dec 12, 2005

You know Wayne, your idea of pulling all of the INS out of the airports and putting them on the barbed wire isn’t that far-fetched.

Some years ago here in San Diego, they literally solved the illegal immigration problem overnight. Someone came up with a brilliant idea called Operation Gatekeeper and it worked beautifully. Instead of letting the illegals walk across the border and then chasing them around all night, they pulled every Border Patrol Agent in the county and lined them up on the border, with orders that no one gets by.

There has been virtually no significant illegal entry problem here in San Diego since that first night years ago. Now they cross out in the deserts East of San Diego where they at least aren’t stealing my car and breaking into my house :-)

Ray

... in response to Actually..., posted by Ray on Dec 12, 2005

Ray,

I saw the nice fence they built out there in San Diego.  That seems to keep anyone out that wants to come in.  Are they going to build that kind of fence across the whole Southern border?  Seems like I heard some rumblings about that but they are waiting for more funding.  I have a funding solution.  Just take all the welfare, medicaid money that we spend on the illeagals and put it toward the fence.  Kill two birds with one stone.  

Keith  

Keith

... in response to Re: Actually..., posted by Keith NC on Dec 13, 2005

Keith,

That triple-layer fence works great but the leftists and environmental whackos won’t let them finish the last few miles. The California Democrats and others have it tied up in the courts over some stupid environmental nonsense. These are some of the same folks who want driver’s licenses for illegals and won’t let the local or state police cooperate with the border patrol in apprehending illegals. Go figure...

Ray

... in response to Re: Re: Actually..., posted by Ray on Dec 14, 2005

Leave up to the anti American libs to stop a good thing for the country as a whole.

... in response to Re: Actually..., posted by Keith NC on Dec 13, 2005

agree 100 pecent

beattledog

... in response to Re: Help!, posted by wayne3 on Dec 12, 2005

What a stupid suggestion! Wouldn’t that be great if any citizen could invite anyone he wanted to and his guests would be guaranteed entry to the U.S.! All it would take is one stupid citizen terrorist like John Walker Lindh inviting all of his Al Queda buddies to the U.S.  Think man!

As far as bringing over the wife’s family or friends, you should place the blame where it really belongs, not on the U.S. government. For many countries, it is very easy to get a tourist visa to the U.S. and for other countries you don’t even need a visa. Why do you think it’s so difficult for citizens of Colombia, Mexico, the Philippines, etc, to get a visitor visa? Because the people from those countries have a terrible history of visa fraud and too many of them never return after their visit like they promised to do. So, you can place the blame on your wife’s countrymen before her who selfishly abused their visas and never went back home.

Ray

... in response to Re: Help!, posted by wayne3 on Dec 12, 2005

on “illegal immigration”, you get your chance this week. Tell your Congressman.

The Republican-controlled House of Representatives will vote Weds. Dec. 14, 2005, on the Border Protection, Anti-Terrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005 (HR 4437), introduced by introduced by Rep. James Sensenbrenner on Dec. 06, 2005.

It basically militarizes the borders, criminalizes “unlawful presence” of “illegals” (a federal crime), expands expedited removal, strips the courts of judicial review of immigration cases, imposes the stiffest penalties yet on “illegal” hiring employers, and expands alien-smuggling punishment to families and others. Getting the borders and the noose tighter.

SUMMARY OF HR4437
http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/immbillsection.pdf

... in response to If anyone wants to get tough..., posted by Gary Bala on Dec 12, 2005

There are way to get tough if we REALLY wanted to.I suspect this bill will fail as too extreme.
Years ago I thought employers were penaized,but it seems not.My ex worked for a company that hired lots of illegals.When notice came through thier SS card was fake   they had to fire them,but it took months.The boss actually told my ex,you are legal!She said yes,thats what I told you.
He presumed she was not.

Pete

... in response to Re: If anyone wants to get tough..., posted by Pete E on Dec 13, 2005

She works with several people who are illegal and they envy her green card.

... in response to Same with my wife, posted by utopiacowboy on Dec 13, 2005

if you and she knows that they are illegals, why not turn them to the immigratin authoriies, including the employer to the government?

Beattledog

... in response to Re: Same with my wife, posted by Beattledog on Dec 14, 2005

These people are co workers.The others workers tend to sympathise with them.One woman who my wife knew had the notice come back she was illegal was called in to talk to the boss.She called my wife saying do you know why he wants to see me?My wife says I don't know,didn't want to give her the bad news.Its easier to sympathise with a human being,somebody who basically only wants what you already have than  a government policy.One reason we have no strong enforcement is alot of people do not want it.My prediction,this new tough law will not pass.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Same with my wife, posted by Pete E on Dec 15, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

HR 4437, the get-tough Immigration bill, was passed by the House tonight by 239-182.  

The immigration issue next moves to the Senate in Feb. 2006, where they are expected to take up a comprehensive immigration reform plan, to include consideration of the Bush temporary guest worker plan.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179012,00.html

... in response to Pete, the House passed the new tough law, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 16, 2005

Hi Gary,

The version that passed looks pretty good to me overall. At least it includes part of the fence :-)

But the best part of all is that Vicente Fox doesn’t like it. Screw him!

Ray

... in response to Re: If anyone wants to get tough..., posted by Pete E on Dec 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

"Illegal immigration"

"There are way(s) to get tough if we REALLY wanted to"

Do you have any special ways in mind? The House bill HR 4437 probably has the toughest employer sanctions and enforcement of any bill around lately. I agree with you however that this bill is too extreme, one-sided, focused on "enforcement-only", and will not likely even come close to being passed by the Senate or signed by the President. But I do think that the Republican-controlled House will pass it, albeit by a small margin, and that it will help placate the social conservatives on the "illegal" immigration issue. (It passed the House Judiciary Committee by a small margin, 23-15, on 12/08/05).

I think most people know that I favor a broader and more comprehensive solution to immigration, trying to get at the root causes and pressures creating the "illegal immigration" in the first place, and agree that the borders should be tightened up vastly better, but would also advocate a limited form of temporary guest worker program for some, not all,  undocumenteds, such as the one in the McCain-Kennedy bill in the Senate and even the Bush Administration proposal.

It is interesting to see the current battles going on in the Republican Party now between the social conservatives (anti-"illegal" immigration on principle) vs. the business conservatives who want and need the employment of "illegal" undocumented workers (in jobs domestic workers don't want) in order to continue U.S. economic growth. The Republican (conservative) Administration and President Bush personally is lobbying the social conservatives in his party, in the House and Senate to go along with some form of temporary guest worker program for some undocumenteds.

It will be interesting to see how all this will play out next year 2006. The final bill will probably be worked out in negotiations between the Administration and future Senate/House conference committee members, and will likely consist of a broader and more comprehensive immigration solution that what we see in HR 4437.

... in response to Thx, Pete..., posted by Gary Bala on Dec 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

Hi Gary,

In my opinion, this is EXACTLY the approach we need to take. It makes absolutely no sense to me to attempt some broad, comprehensive solution until you get a handle on the enforcement problem FIRST. I want to puke every time these dumb-ass politicians propose ANOTHER “amnesty” program while the borders are still wide open and employers get away with murder. We have been sending the wrong message to our neighbors for way too long now.

Also, there just aren’t enough people taking this “War on Terror” seriously. We need those borders protected NOW, before we even start to worry about the welfare of the illegals who are already here. "Ideally", we would send ALL illegals back home while securing our borders. I agree in principle that we need some sort of controlled temporary guest worker program, with the emphasis on “temporary”. To just keep rewarding the folks who broke the law and came here illegally is insane. Why shouldn’t those who respect our laws have first crack at a guest worker card?

I agree with your comments on getting to the real root causes of the illegal immigration problem, but unfortunately the solution lies in Mexico City and with the other governments where the bulk of the illegals are coming from. Unless they get a government in Mexico willing to take responsibility for their own poverty, the ONLY remedy on our side of the border is the “get tough” approach.

At least the Republicans are beginning to show the courage to step up to the plate and actually do something to secure the borders. All we get from the Democrats is more of the same garbage and cowardly pandering to their Latino voting base.

Ray :-)

... in response to My  Viewpoint, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

Seems to me that the presidental debates between Kerry and Bush weren't that far off that we can't remember what happened when Kerry asked Bush what he was doing about the 5,000 or so illegal aliens coming across our borders daily. He never directly answered the question but changed the subject in his response.

Having lived in Los Angeles and Phoenix all of my life, I can tell you that no administration in my lifetime has been really interested in securing our border with Mexico. There are hundreds of thousands of illegal Mexicans living and working in the Phoenix are right now.

If we could round them all up and deport them tommorrow this city would have serious problems. A lot of businesses here would be out of business over night.

The INS hasn't done a raid on an employeer accused of hiring illegal immigrants in a long, long time. That is something you see in the movies.

You can not tell me that our government doesn't want them here.

It could be that the Democrates and the Republican alike   are finally realizing that a lot of americans don't want illegals living here. But up until now the Border Patrol agents have been doing nothing more than controlling the flow of illegals crossing the border.

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by Calipro on Dec 14, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

"If we could round them all up and deport them tomorrow this city would have serious problems. A lot of businesses here would be out of business over night."

This is key point, CP, that most social conservatives in the GOP don't get, and why the business conservatives are strongly in favor of the Bush plan, or any limited and temporary version of guest worker. The reason Bush didn't answer Kerry's immigration question is that he (Bush) needed the money, support, backing and clout of the business conservatives to help him win the Presidency and get re-elected, and those guys need and want the "illegal" labor. (In other words, in the world of politics, there is plenty of pandering on both sides, but that is a different point.)

By the way, INS (they're called USCIS now CP), and Border Patrol and ICE are just an "enforcement-mechanism-arm" and reflection of the political directives of the Administration and Congress. It makes no sense to blame "lazy" Border Patrol government guys, the solution is to debate and decide: what should be our long-term national policy on immigration reform? And then carry out the political solution.

We get the government we vote for, so if you don't like what you see in the government, then vote it out of office and vote in new political leaders to change the Border Patrol, or any arm of the government.

Why do people migrate "illegally"?, the root causes of "illegal" immigration? Unless a long-term strategy addresses that, we will never stop "illegal" immigration, because neither Main Street nor Wall Street will ever accept building a mountain wall around Mexico, Canada, and the East and West Coasts. "We need more than just brute enforcement" (Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security Secretary)

Should we help Mexico and the other countries better their economy and standard of living, contain corruption, and expand their opportunities so as to reduce the "jobs and money" pressure on these people to migrate "illegally"? Yes, we should. But that is a long term answer which will take time.

In the near term, U.S. businesses need to keep running and the domestic economy can't stop. But yes the conservatives are right that we also can't just ignore (and not punish) the "illegals", or give them a free pass, thereby encouraging more "illegals" to come, while the "legals" wait in long petition processing lines. The solution it seems to me is a compromise, compromises sometimes work. A CONTROLLED and CAREFULLY MEASURED immigration plan: First, effectively and finally controlling the border, but also allowing some, not all, undocumented workers to remain on a temporary but legal basis, for the good of business. That way, ICE and Border Patrol can their spend valuable time and money actually going after the terrorists and the real bad guys.

Temporary guest workers plan work fine in other countries such as Dubai and Kuwait, as pointed out by a previous poster. It is a win-win scenario. Only the extreme conservatives are labeling it "blanket amnesty". The top two bills in the Senate propose a guest worker plan as part of the new immigration solution: the McCain-Kennedy Bill and the Cornyn-Kyle Bill.

The public wants immigration reform, and so does the Administration and Congress. So I think that in 2006, the "third rail" will get a face-lift, and a new immigration solution will be tried.

PS: As you point out in your other post, it's high time we tried something. I don't think it's "too late" with animals out of the barn, as you say, but we're getting there, with over 12% foreign immigrants in our country, and growing, and mostly Latinos, so we all better hit the Spanish books.

... in response to Business Ghost Town, USA, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 14, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

But Gary, you're conveniently forgetting about all those liberal elitists who bash Wal Mart for hiring illegals but think nothing of their own illegal alien housekeepers that clean their toilets and scrub the hash marks out of their skivies. It called leftist hypocrisy :-)

Also, just how do you propose that we Americans make Mexico contain their corruption? Should we send the cops down to Mexico City to arrest all of their politicians? :-)

Ray

... in response to Re: Business Ghost Town, USA, posted by Ray on Dec 15, 2005

I'm a left-leaning elitist with illegal (attractive) Colombian ladies typing my visa petitions and cleaning my office, a la Zoe Baird, Attorney General nominee sometime back who (you remember) employed two illegal Peruvian maids in her house...ha :)

... in response to You caught me Ray!, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 16, 2005

Yeah, I thought so! LOL

Just messing with you Gary. You keep dumping ALL of the blame for illegal immigration on Republicans, conservatives, and business. I was just giving some equal time to the other side :-)

You know and I know that this problem has been around for a long time and it shouldn’t be a political issue, but an American issue. And since the main piece to the puzzle (90%+) is poverty and joblessness in Mexico, let’s start dumping the blame where it really belongs, on the corrupt Mexican government.

And since we really can’t and shouldn’t even try to meddle in Mexico’s internal problems, I say put up the fence and do whatever it takes to get control of our borders, and maybe then Mexico will be forced to deal with it’s poor, instead of dumping their “problem” on their neighbor to the North. THAT is the only way that we will ever begin to find a solution to the illegal immigration problem. All of this talk of guest workers, amnesty, driver licenses, etc, is only ignoring the real source of the problem and will just give us more of the same nonsense that we have now.

Peace,

Ray :-)

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by Calipro on Dec 14, 2005

You’re right. Illegal immigration and border control is one of those “third-rail” issues, like Social Security, that the politicians have been afraid to touch up until now. Instead of worrying about offending the Latinos and losing some votes, they have finally realized that we the public are simply fed up with the inaction, like you said.

I think Bush screwed up when he went way out of his way to try to make Vicente Fox happy, hence his dumb-ass “amnesty” plan, whether he calls it that or not. I wish he would tell Fox to shove it for once, in public!

Ray

... in response to I agree..., posted by Ray on Dec 14, 2005

Ray

All this talk about closing the borders and stopping illegal immigration is like closing the barn door after all the animals ran out.

The fact of the matter is it's too late. There are so many illegal immigrants here that now have american children that it's not really possible to deport them all.

Latinos in the U.S. on average have 50% more children than the rest of the american population and that includes latinos born here. Even without illegal immigration we'll be out numbered soon. A spansih newspaper here in Phoenix estimated that in twenty years half of the Phoenix population will be latinos.

I hear you guys talking about learning spanish before going south. How about learning spanish just so you can live in the southwest U.S.

If you can't beat them join them. The latinos have already taken over Miami. I went there last year and stayed in a neighborhood called Corral Gables. Every single person I met spoke spanish. I went to a mall called 'Mall of the Americas' I think and every single person in the mall was speaking spanish. If I didn't know better I would have thought I was in South America. I stopped trying to even talk in english and just spoke in spanish.

... in response to My  Viewpoint, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

The Democrats are the worst kind of panderers but thank God, many Latinos are starting to see the light. The leadership of many Latino organizations is still in the Demos hip pocket but the rank and file are wising up and voting for the party (Republican) that still represents their traditional value system.

... in response to My  Viewpoint, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

I know that I am stir up some controversy with this statement. When the illegals are caught in this country, they should implant chips with tracking devices in their body so that if they try to re-enter this country again, they could be easily tracked, found and deported.c.   We have the technology to do this.  It would have to be so that the chips would not be easy to removed from the person.

Beattledog

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by Beattledog on Dec 13, 2005

How about the chip blows your head off when you cross the border, like the Arnold S movie. A few hundred carcasses lying around makes a new form of "Welcome" sign.

Don't get excited. I'm not serious. No sense in blowing the head completely off!

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by Beattledog on Dec 13, 2005

That kind of thinking would classify you as a Nazi by a lot of people, ACLU, LA RAZA and a few others but you do have a point and it would take care of the repeat crossers.

... in response to My  Viewpoint, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

did you read the report about the study  in  the newspaper a few days ago, that the government  thought the illegal’s were coming because they couldn’t find work, but after they interviewed a lot, most had jobs at home, but wanted more money, so guess where they went, north.

This was told to me by a business owner in TJ who owns a circuit board manufacturing business. Most Mexicans who cross the border illegally are of some Indian decent, most have very dark skin, and are not the typical Mexican.   The government doesn’t want the border crossing to stop for a number of reasons. one, the ones who cross have little or no work skills, no education and are the lower class of Mexican citizens.  the government knows they get free health care in the US, so if they have a problem already, it gets taken care of in the US and paid by the tax payers, not in Mexico, saves money. And the biggest reason, they send millions of dollars back to Mexico each year, so no wonder why Fox doesn’t want to stop the crossings.

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by mudd on Dec 13, 2005

Mudd,

I think they sent something like 13 Billion Dollars home to Mexico last year.  In the meantime the taxpayer foots the bill for everything else. My blood boils when I think about the shit that I have to go through to bring my wife over here from the Philippines legally.  While most of these illegals get the red carpet treatment for breaking the law.

Keith

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by mudd on Dec 13, 2005

The concept of "follow the money" digs up interesting information in many areas of life.

... in response to Re: My  Viewpoint, posted by mudd on Dec 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

Whether it's for a job, a better paying job, medical benefits,  or money going back to Mexico, they are "dying to get in", as 60 Minutes reported in a TV news story this past Sunday, at a rate of 1000 per year.

CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/08/60minutes/main1108476.shtml

The problem is growing worse, as current U.S. immigration levels (legal and "illegal") are booming, more than 12% of the U.S. population now. See MSNBC report citing Center for Immigration Study findings.

MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10440110/

And the public is becoming increasingly anxious, with recent polls showing less support for immigration coupled with more anxiety about terrorism and "illegal" immigration.

IMO, the status quo is clearly unacceptable, so new solutions need to be tried.

... in response to Dying to Get In, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 13, 2005

Now I see your problem Gary...you belive 60 Minutes and MSNBC!  :-)

I also saw that stupid 60 Minutes story. If you listen to Ed Bradley and his ilk, you would think that any money spent on controlling the border is just a big waste of taxpayer funds, the implication being that we should just pull everyone out and leave the borders wide open so all of those poor innocent workers could come and go as they please. THAT is the Democratic position!

Well, Ed Bradley and 60 Minutes are full of crap! I live a couple of miles from the border and I had to endure that bull shit that went on here nightly for many years, until they drove the illegals out into the desert by closing down the San Diego sector. FINALLY, we had a little peace at night. No mere illegals running through our yards. No more illegals stealing every truck with a camper shell or van that they could find. No more illegals breaking into our homes and stealing everything in sight. No more high speed chases on our neighborhood streets with dead bodies strewn across the roadways.

FINALLY someone got serious and solved our problem here in San Diego and Ed Bradley says it was all a big waste of money? Horse Crap! Ed Bradley is an ass! And the Clinton administration didn’t just suddenly decide to do something about the border situation here in San Diego. They were shamed into it by a bunch of concerned citizens who decided to do something on their own.

Operation Light Up the Border had hundreds of people drive to the border every evening and aim their cars’ headlights across the river channel where most of the crossings occurred. It worked so well that the government had to stop it for fear of looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots. Because of a local radio talk show host named Roger Hedgecock and some concerned citizens, we now have a peaceful border in San Diego. And La Raza, the ACLU, 60 Minutes, and all of the other leftists can stick it where the sun don’t shine as far as I’m concerned.

Ray

... in response to Dying for the TRUTH, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

I subscribe to the Republican (conservative) Bush plan for immigration, which couples enforcement with a temporary guest worker program. As for the Democrats dropping the ball on immigration, last time I checked, the Clinton Administration and the Democrats have not been in ruling power of any branch of federal government for the past 5 years :)
G.

... in response to Actually..., posted by Gary Bala on Dec 14, 2005

Gary,

The Bush Plan is a joke and is NOT supported by conservatives. And the Democrats are fighting anything that would make a real difference in controlling the borders.

The Democrat controlled legislature here in California wants open borders, free education, health care, driver's licenses, college scholarships, etc. for illegals. They are consistently opposed to anything that might stifle the growth of their Latino voting base and they could care less about the rest of us poor suckers who have to pay for all of this crap.

Ray :-)

... in response to Dying for the TRUTH, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

n/t

... in response to Dying to Get In, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 13, 2005

Until they enforce laws that punish people and businesses that hire them, have a good way to check to see if they are legal, and actually patrol the border, it will never stop. Welcome to the "United States of Mexico" :-)

... in response to Re: Dying to Get In, posted by mudd on Dec 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

As Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security Secretary testified to Congress in Oct. 2005: "We're going to need more than just brute enforcement...citing President Bush's statement: "Enforcement cannot work unless it is part of a larger comprehensive immigration reform program."

In other words, a long-term solution requires a long-term strategy which gets at the root causes of why people are migrating "illegally" while also enabling U.S. businesses to employ some people for jobs not wanted by domestic workers. This in turn may require, among other things, (as unpleasant as it may sound), some form of temporary guest worker program.

... in response to Re: Re: Dying to Get In, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 13, 2005

Where did I read the following concept? I think it was somebody here months ago.

Pay the Mexican Generals $1M in cash, deposited into an account from which they can only withdraw at the end of the fiscal/calander year. Every time one gets across in the Generals' jurisdiction, subtract $10,000 from the total sum.

... in response to Re: Re: Dying to Get In, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 13, 2005

While it does sound bad, why not try some sort of guest worker program?  Allow people to enter the usa with a "worker visa" limit the amount of time that they could stay here and this way at least they would have to pay taxes etc and remove part of the burden to the taxpayers? The current programs we have now are not working and we are over run with illegals, costing the taxpayers a fortune for medical care etc....

just my two cents..

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Dying to Get In, posted by Dan Las Vegas on Dec 13, 2005

Dan,

We had such a guest worker program at one time here in California. The Bracero Program allowed Mexican farm workers to temporarily come here legally and provide needed farm labor. They would return home after harvest time and then come back for the planting season.

The Mexican government took a percentage of their pay as a means of forcing them to save for their retirement. Well, guess what? The Mexican government ripped off it’s own citizens and now won’t give them all of their retirement investment. Like I said before, the REAL problem is with the crooked politicians in Mexico City!

Ray

... in response to Bracero Program, posted by Ray on Dec 13, 2005

Thanks for the info Ray, I was not aware that they tried a program like that in the past. Something has to give soon, the problem is getting out of control. Having just moved back to California after six years in Las Vegas, the problem seems worse than ever here in Southern California.

DAn

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Dying to Get In, posted by Dan Las Vegas on Dec 13, 2005

two reasons, one, the so called "jobs that Americans wont do" is because the pay is so little, you cant survive on it, if your legal and paying taxes, health care ect.  2, big business wants the illegal’s here, so somebody will accept the low wages that most Americans can’t live on. It’s all a circle that the government and the big industries don’t want to break.

Until the economy really goes in the krapper, and Americans are fighting for those jobs because it’s either don’t work, don’t eat, I don’t think it will change until then.

... in response to If anyone wants to get tough..., posted by Gary Bala on Dec 12, 2005

:-)

... in response to Help!, posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

If she actually got the visa and it wasn’t a fake, then they would let her in, and I doubt they would question it. Seen lots of young Colombians with tourist visa's entering Miami.
But, and here it the but part. even though  tons of Mexicans cross the border every day, get caught and promise to appear at their court date, about 97% never do, I wonder why, duh!!!!  Mexicans get better treatment for some reason.  But when you actually get a tourist visa and stay past the allowed dates, they will make you a priority case. If they catch you and deport you, they will ban you from the country for 10 years, or more. Even if you get married and have kids, so my personal experience tells.  and I have a friend in the border patrol, who actually knows something. They really get pissed if you get a visa and abuse it.

Now a b1 work visa, im not sure about, I will have to ask my friend.

... in response to Re: Help!, posted by mudd on Dec 12, 2005

mudd,

I think you are referring to the “Catch and Release” program where NON MEXICANS who are apprehended near the border are often released on their written promise to appear in court later. These are mostly illegals from Central and South America. Mexicans are generally bussed back to the border and released there. I heard recently that the government is supposed to stop this stupid practice, if it hasn’t already.

Also, people with valid visas are turned away at their P.O.E. all the time. I knew of a Filipina lady who had a 10-year multiple-entry visa and she had been here to visit several times. She met a American man and they were engaged to be married. When she arrived at the airport in L.A., she was asked the purpose of her visit and she said to visit her American fiancé. BINGO! They denied her entry, canceled her visa, and sent her right back home. Why? Because she was now considered an intending immigrant and a risk for not returning. The Consular officers overseas issue the visas, but the immigration officers at the P.O.E. determine who is admitted and for how long.

Ray

... in response to Correction..., posted by Ray on Dec 12, 2005

Yep, the "catch and release" program, what a joke.  Sorry, but the Mexicans get the same treatment, (most border officers don’t have the time or don’t care to really check where they are from) burns my friends but over it. most border patrol officers he knows says its all a waste of time unless you take out the  businesses who hires them, no jobs, no illegal crossers, well, im sure their still would be some, but not as many.

Ok, if you’re that dumb with a visa, then you need it taken away. Not saying she was going to marry the guy on it, but that’s pretty lame. But I have seen many young girls go through immigration without any problems (in Houston), with little or no questions that I saw, hell some went through faster than me.  

... in response to Re: Help!, posted by mudd on Dec 12, 2005

Mudd

I agree with you and it really fries my justa as much that we cannot vouch financialy for the person and be on the hook for a monetary sum of money if the person skips on the Visa. I think this should be a fundemental part of Immigration reform and thus puts the monkey on our backs so to speak and hits us where it hurs the most, in the pocketbook if we let the person take off

Our goverment is a bucn of LOSERS, every frigen one of them,EVERY FRIGEN ONE !!!

KB

... in response to Help!, posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

I would strongly suspect that this is a rip-off just based on the price.$2000 dollars is to cheap.

There are crooked lawyers in Cali that will do it for $5000. They will get you the title of a house in your name, bank records showing a steady cash flow from a business and everything to get a tourist visa at the embassy in Bogota. There are no guarantees that the embassy will approve the tourist visa but if they do it is as good as any other visa that they approve.

... in response to I have head of this...., posted by Calipro on Dec 12, 2005

I am afraid that the $2000 will go down some sinkhole and the poor girl wont even get a chance to board the plane. Thinking about it, if some of these lawyers charge $5000, this includes the price of bribing others in the chain, so to speak, ie the bank officials providing the phony documents, the title company providing the house documents, etc. The $2000 is probably his full profit. And like the other posting said,  even if this isnt a ripoff,this only guarantees her entry onto the plane, not into the country. I am going to try and convince him , but his wife is hell bent on trying. Goodbye $2k

... in response to Re: I have head of this...., posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

Any visa that anybody gets from any embassy only guarantees you entry on to the plane and not into the country.

If the embassy official takes the documents as genuine and issue a visa it is as good as any visa that is issued.

I think one of the reasons the embassy randomly denies visas is because there is alot of fraud in the paper work that supports tourist visas. These people pay alot of money for the fake paper work and when they don't get the visa it is all a waste of their money.

... in response to Help!, posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

Even if she were to lie her way past the interviewing consular officer and get her visitor visa, that will only get her on the plane and is no guarantee that she will be admitted. You are correct that she will be questioned by ICE at the Port of Entry. If she is denied entry, she will be sent back on the next available plane.

The consequences to her of getting caught committing visa fraud or making false statements include a probable life-time ban on entry into the U.S.

Tell your friend to flush his $2,000 plus the cost of the round-trip plane ticket down the toilet so he won’t have to waste the remittance fee to transfer the funds to Colombia.

Also, the fact that your friend’s wife is a citizen is irrelevant. There is no provision in the law to allow a citizen to petition a niece. She could only petition a parent, child, or sibling.

Ray

... in response to Forget it!, posted by Ray on Dec 12, 2005

In addition all of Ray's comments with which I agree, the U.S. Embassy in Bogota's 22-officer anti-fraud unit is specifically screening for this type of tourist visa document fraud.

In fact, the Embassy website FAQ page even warns against the practices of this type of "tourist visa lawyer" on the ground in Colombia calling him the "man on the street", and warns that the visa applicant might even be sent directly to the Colombian Fiscalía.

http://bogota.usembassy.gov/wwwsc071.shtml

... in response to Re: Forget it! If caught, she might even..., posted by Gary Bala on Dec 12, 2005

I think that even if she does get this visa, she will be turned aside at the Border.I mean, think about it, She is a single female travelling alone ( red flag#1) No money in her pocket for her supposed  Xmas trip ( red flag #2)and a bunch of phony documents ( red flag #3). One question though
If the ICE guys have a reasonable suspicion that she is a visa fraud person, do the just detain her and deport her, noting her record, or will she go from Miami back to Colombia and then to detention?

... in response to Re: Re: Forget it! If caught, she might ..., posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

Ranger

I don't think you understand the process. If the embassy takes the fake paper work as genuine and gives her a visa there is very little chance of her getting turned away at customs.

Although the documentation was fake the visa that the embassy issues is the real thing.

There are all kinds of these scams going on in Colombia.

I knew a colombiana whose bother that went to a crooked lawyer. For 5 grand he gave him a venezuelan ID and a Venezuelan Passport with all the documentation necessary to get a visa for Spain. The guy went to Venezuela got the visa went to Spain, got a job and was senting money back to his sister so she could do the same thing.

... in response to Re: Re: Forget it! If caught, she might ..., posted by Ranger71 on Dec 12, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

Thank you for your phone call; you and I spoke about this topic.

Assuming that she is even able to get the tourist visa at the Embassy in Bogota, she will be subject to "summary removal" procedure in Miami (or any port of entry), meaning immediate return to Colombia, and an immigration finding can be made in her record of visa fraud, document falsification or misrepresentation in the visa process which means a potential permanent bar or exclusion from U.S. entry. She could possibly face other local fraud charges back home in Colombia with DAS, since she used a Colombian passport (stamped with a U.S. visa issued on false documents) for exit from and re-entry into Colombia.

Bottom line: big risk, high danger.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Forget it! If caught, she mi..., posted by Gary Bala on Dec 12, 2005

It seems to me that the embassy would look for fraud before they issued the visa. If the visa was issued why would they be checking after the fact to see if there was fraud?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Forget it! If caught, sh..., posted by Calipro on Dec 12, 2005

[This message has been edited by Gary Bala]

"It seems to me that the embassy would look for fraud before they issued the visa. If the visa was issued why would they be checking after the fact to see if there was fraud?"

Because the appearance of a person with a “valid” U.S. visa is no guarantee of U.S. entry at POE (Port of Entry). Under expanded powers of “summary removal”, the USCIS immigration POE officer does not have to accept “carte blanche” the visa issuance or decision of the Embassy officer. He or she can make (and is expected to make) an independent review and decision of the “admissibility” of the visa holder, including where justified and appropriate: interview questions, review of documents in support of the visa, fraud  investigation, even a hearing with an immigration judge, and if needed direct communication and consultation with the Consular officer who issued the visa. You are right that this case is not one of a “fake” U.S. visa, the visa is indeed real, but that does not guarantee lawful admission. There are many foreign citizens who appear with a perfectly valid U.S. visa issued by the Consulate who are denied admission at POE for a variety of reasons, such as improper answers to questions, discovery of some new information about that person transmitted from the Consulate or law enforcement to the immigration officer, etc.

Granted that immigration officer staff do not have the time and resources to do this kind of extensive review in all cases and need to pick choose when they might do this. Granted that an immigration officer needs to sense or suspect some fraud before going the nine yards. Granted that the lady in question could find herself passing through POE without troubles. The issue however is the risk involved in getting caught in this process, and the penalties if caught.

By the way: I am sure that you can appreciate my position, namely that I cannot condone, encourage or suggest that someone go-ahead and get a U.S. visa based on “successful” fraudulent and falsified documents simply because there is a chance that she can “get away” with it later at POE and thereafter (i.e. they might not “per se” be looking for fraud at that moment.)

... in response to Forget it!, posted by Ray on Dec 12, 2005

,