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Kids,

Sorry, I haven't posted sooner.  I know that many of you are genuinely concerned, and I appreciate that :c)  I haven't been able to get alot sleep, at least uninterrupted, and that makes it difficult to think clearly, post coherent thoughts, process information, etc...  I have sat down to post a few times, but didn't know what to say.  Now that I have a few hours sleep under my belt, maybe I can share things in some sort of logical order.  AT least as logical an order as I usually do :c)

I talked to my wife's mother very early Friday Morning, 2am est is when I started callnig.  I was having trouble getting through on the Manila Calling Card I got from the Filipino food store that Ayesa loves so much, so I got pissed and dialed direct.  When I dialed direct I got through.

No matter what question I asked her mother, she gave me the answers that she thought I wanted to hear.  Her and her sister, the aunt Ayesa has been staying with, are sticking to their story like glue.  Ayesa is simply ashamed, becuase I have helped so much already, to ask me for the money she needs to get through NAIA and back to Detroit.  When I asked what she had done with the money Art gave her, her mother simply replied that she doesn't know.  When I aksed to talk to Ayesa, her mother said she is scared to talk to me and that she will explain everything when she gets here.  I pressed telling Mommy Dearest, that I would not send money without talking to my wife, period!  I needed to call Western Union to find out the quickest way to get them some cash, so I told her that I would call her back after I made the arrangements and that I demand to speak directly to Ayesa when I call back.  Mom said she would simply cry.  I told her that would be fine if that was the best she could do, but that I wanted her on the phone with me and I was not going to give in in this regard.  She assured me that she would talk to Ayesa and that she would try to make her talk to me.  She also said her husband is pissed because she has had to go to Manila and that he wants her home right away!  I told her the fastest way back to Tambis, was to get her daughter on the phone with her husband.  I then let her go and called Western Union.

After I got done with Western Union I called back and this time the calling card worked.  BONUS!  I went over some details with my mother-in-law and then told her that I wanted to speak to Ayesa.  She said Ayesa was crying and just wanted to explain everything when she got home.  I told that I NEED to talk to my wife and it can take as many days as it has to, but that I will not move an inch farther without talking to Ayesa.  I was asked to hang on for a minute.

Ayesa got on the phone and was indeed crying.  We talked for almost an hour.  Sadly, it's probably the longest two way conversation we have had since we been married.  Ayesa was genuine and honest with me and I told her that, while I didn't necessarily like what she was saying, I appreciated the fact that she was finally telling me what was going on in her head.  I really have a feeling that Art got through to her, God Bless him for that!

We agreed that the best way for us to handle the situation was together.  There is nothing very juicy going on, Ayesa simply is not happy here, but is being pressured to return for whatever reason.  There are only two and i think they are clear to everyone.

When it is less painful and dangerous for me, I will post the context of our conversation.  To the best of my knowledge, my wife is not using me to bankroll her family.  She is simply miserable and feels alone in a strange place.  She feels rejected by her family because they push her toward a stranger, rather than try to help her deal with her feelings themselves.  She feels that she is hurting me and my family with her problems and simply wants to stop.  She is paralyzed by her own fear and sadness, but doesn't want to be the source of anyone else's pain.  An admirable, but tardy, stance on the issue from her perspective.

Again, I have no intention of being a martyr, but I can only do what my conscience dictates.  I hear those who care about me screaming to to be careful and I am trying to be, but my conscience is the loudest voice I hear and that is the one that I must follow.  In the end, no matter where I end up or how long or short the road to that end is, I have to be able to live with myself, not anyone else.  I can only do what I think is right.  Quick, easy, painless... I can't guaruntee that my path will be any of those, but I am only worried that it is the right path.  The path that is right for me in the end is to make sure my wife is happy, or at the very least, that I am not the source of her misery, directly or indirectly.

I honestly believe, unlike other points in this journey, that Ayesa will be home here next week.  If she is able to somehow remain estranged in Manila from her family and myself, then that is something that I have no power over any longer.  I will be sad for her, because I truely want to help her deal with these problems, no matter what the outcome.  By remaining in Manila she will be betraying the only person who truely has her best interests at heart.  Me.

What a difference a couple of days can make.  I can't wait to see how intersting this whole thing can get before it's over.

I'm Ok, I'm just mentally, physically and emotionally exhausted.

Regards to all

H

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

Howard Ijust read everyone elses reponse to your post. Please don't feel like everyone is ganging up on you. We just care, and hate to see you both suffering like you are.--LORI

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

Hi Howard.
I have been following your story for some time now. As you know I am now in the waiting process.(Waiting for interview) All this waiting around gives you time to do alot of soul searching. It also gives you time to think about what you are doing and time to prepare for your spouses arrival. I am wondering if you had any doubts before she arrived. We all know this visa process is alot of work, and when you get toward the end, probably nothing would stop us all from going through with it.

Also, I feel as though you portray your wife as a complete stranger. It's as if you know nothing of her personality. We never hear, "It's not like her to do this or that", or " She's this way or that way"How long were you married before she left for the phils? How long did your engagement last?

And your words "There is nothing very juicy going on, Ayesa simply is not happy here, but is being pressured to return for whatever reason."  If you feel she is being pressured to return to you, why in the world would you want her with you. We could all almost gaurentee she is not going to be happy a second time. I am also wondering how old she is. You said at one time that she was "encouraged " to marry an american. Have you ever asked her if this was ever what she wanted or was it just what her family wanted??
I am sorry, but I have to put my .02 cents in. Please, let this girl off the hook. For your sake and hers. She seems like a scared little girl to me.

It is all just so sad, for her and for you. It seems like a fairy-tale gone wrong. The rich prince and the poor peasant girl. The poor peasant girl must do what is expected of her, even though it is not her wish. The prince only dreams of a beautiful wife and can not see her sadness and unhappiness because he is blinded by love for her.
If you love something set it free, if it comes back to you, it's your, if it does'nt it never was.
Sorry Howard-for being so blunt---good luck and peace to your soul

... in response to Re: questions questions..., posted by Lori on Dec 9, 2001

voice of wisdom, very good Post. I believe that she's only 21 or 22 of age.

... in response to Re: questions questions..., posted by Lori on Dec 9, 2001

ditto.

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

Let Ayesa stay in Manila, if that is what SHE wants. Give her the freedom her own family refuses to give her, if you really love her and want the best for HER. Unless she comes back to you out of her OWN free will (and it may take weeks, months, years for her to come to such conclusion), there will be no happiness for either of you....

... in response to give her freedom!, posted by cc on Dec 9, 2001

I think I agree with CBF?  Help.  Heartattack!!!  Arggghhhh.

Bear

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

I know you have your mind made up Howard and I salute you for your integrity and perserverence but after reading this:

 ....."The path that is right for me in the end is to make sure my wife is happy, or at the very least, that I am not the source of her misery, directly or indirectly"........

If you feel your path in life is to make her happy...hey...have at it and more power to you... This is America. But to ponder whether or not you are the source of her misery????????  .....For Pete's Sake!!!!! If she has any misery in her life it isn't because of you Howard. How old is she and how long have you know her? Her pain comes from a place that is far away and from long ago. It didn't come from you . My God Man, I can hardly bear to read your posts anymore......it's like watching a guy with a pistol playing Russian roulette. Heck...You could've found pain like you are experiencing  right here in Michigan, if you wanted to. Good Luck....again.

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

Hi Howard,

I haven't said anything so far on this because I don't want to try to give advice on a situation like this. Only you can say what is right for you.

I will say this, though, and I hope it help's a bit. Some here say you should just give her the heave-ho. She dosn't love you. Well, of course, she doesn't REALLY love you. In these pen-pal relationship's nobody start's off with thier wife REALLY loving them. unless they have spent month's or year's together beforehand. Anyone who think's differently is just fooling themselves. Usaually there is just a solid foundation of "like". At least, there HAS to be if it's going to work. If THAT is not there then, most likely the marriage will fail. Also, the guy is very much in "like". How can he LOVE someone he hardly know's?? No one can. It's a type of love, but not the one we hope to finally attain down the line.

So, it's a good place to start. Liking each other enough to say you would be willing to spend a lifetime together getting to know and love the other person. This is hopefully where Ayesa is now. Likes you enough to give it a go. You might want to be open and honest enough to tell her that you know the difference between this type of like/love and the one you were both looking for when you started, and I'm sure, both still want, even if it end's up being with another. I'll bet she know's the diiference and would probably feel better knowing you know it too. Might relieve some of the pressure on her.

At any rate, you two should talk about giving it another go, if she and you still want to. but don't do it if she doesn't seem to like you enough. You will have to be the judge of that.

Uh-oh, I think I just gave advice. LOL! Said I wouldn't do that. Even if you disregard the rest of this post, just know that what I'm trying to say is that I really feel for ya, and wish you the best. I include you in my prayer's at night. I hope they will help.

Hang-tough,
Jay

... in response to Re: One last Show of Faith, posted by Jay on Dec 9, 2001

I don't believe anyone who starts out in a marriage really loves each other. Of course there's that deep affection, that burning desire, and that satisfaction that you've found "the one." It took me probably 4 or 5 years of marriage before I really felt our relationship was deep, true love - the kind that could weather any storm. Before that it was what Jimbo so eloquently expressed as a "comittment to success" that drove it forward to real love - it seemed more like faith in what the future will hold. I see that deep, driving committment to success in Howard, and maybe that's enough. I don't know. I hope so.
-- Jeff S.

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

You bent over backward giving over 95% to this so called marriage. Cannot you see that she doesn't Love or want You??? For your own sake and Peace of mind, it's time for You to move on with your life, there is nothing more You can do. Guys look for something better in RP than what we can find here, not something much worst. Mr Peabody

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

I honestly don't know what to say without deep thinking.  But I think she was coerced into a marriage without love.  If that's the case, it is indeed very sad.  Two people, both you and her, got royally screwed up because of somebody else's will.  Perhaps a divorce with dignity is the best solution.  Or maybe an anullment.  The impression I have is that it is a marriage that should have never been.

To put myself in Ayesa's shoes, I can't fathom being forced, coerced, or persuaded to marry a woman I could not love, or was incapable of loving.  For that to happen, it would dash all hopes of finding what I really wanted in a supposed life partner, I would be miserable, and inevitably, my misery would make my real life partner miserable too.  But some people are forced into these situations.  In my case, despite what so many in my circle say, that I should only marry an Amercan woman from the pool of what is available, I would rather choose to be single than be married to somebody I wasn't attracted to, but married to satisfy the norms.  I honestly think Ayesa was coerced into marrying you by her family, because they thought that marriage to you would provide all the goodies.  It hurt Ayesa, and it hurt you.  On that premise, I would suggest a divorce with dignity.

Perhaps you should chronicle all of this to your lawyer, and the judge should see it.  To me, it seems like a case of fraud (probably not Ayesa's fault), where Ayesa was forced into something she did not want.  I say this particularly because you say you beleive that Ayesa's mother type-wrote the letters and then persuaded Ayesa to sign them.  If that is the case, it is a sad and ugly situation where both you and Ayesa got hurt, on separate and opposing planes, big time.  It screwed you up psychologically and indeed it did the same to Ayesa.

Good luck in getting through this.  My prayers are with you.

- Kevin

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

Howard you are a very decent person.  I really hope this works out for you. Don't give up. Keep focused on getting her over here.  If she's not home just keep talking to the Mom and tell her you love your wife and that you want to get her home.  Reassure the mother that you have phone cards and that her daugter can talk to her every day once she gets over here.  Keep stressing that you love your wife and you miss her.  I would think you should be going to counseling now and as soon as your wife gets here both of you go together. Keep coming on this board. You had a friend who met your wife and trusted her enough there to give her money for a ticket.  I think that is a very good sign. I just have a feeling there is hope for you in this and things will work out.

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001


sense of "right" that help make you such a very special person.  

Howard, I pray your breakthrough conversation with Ayesa is the start of not only better communications, but opens her eyes and her heart to what she has in her relationship with you.

Blessings,

Jen

@^_^@

PS. Can I borrow Art sometime?

... in response to Howard, it is your enduring Faith, under..., posted by FilipinaCupid on Dec 8, 2001

All I do is sit in front of this computer waiting for my wife so I guess I have lots of time.  BTW, I think I would lose the catfights if that what you have in mind (hehehe).

Bear

... in response to To do what?, posted by Bear on Dec 8, 2001

Loser gets groin in the face.  Not such a bad way to lose if you're fighting a Filipina.  I think I'd just skip the fight and go straight to getting the groin squashed in my face. 8)

... in response to To do what?, posted by Bear on Dec 8, 2001


given a bear-hug for taking your limited precious time with your wife to help another who most had written off as a helpless cause.  I see a strength in Howard that I pray his wife will come to realize and LoVe.

Oh, since you mention it, (just for the record) the site Hum-a-sad-tune AGAIN brought to everyones' attention is N0T my site but belongs to Katherine who I have never met.  I have not posted any pictures of anyone, nude or otherwise, there.  I do post there and sometimes send an email to club which Member Hum received and no doubt triggered his post.

I have asked Kat to remove my personal (all modest) pictures from all her sites as I regret providing stories.  All pictures on story site were added by others also.  And, I have N0T receive one single dollar for my stories nor have I ask for any.  It just started out as a mistake/joke and grew beyond my control.

It is interesting to note all those making comments DiD Join Kat's club and told Yahoo they are over 18 or they could not have seen the pictures.  I have not seen the posted pictures so I cannot comment on what they show.  The stories are based on true events, and on other sites such as Yahoo Experts, I have done much over past three years to promote Philippines in positive manner.

Actually, the stories are hard to find unless you are looking for such subject and OnLy Hum and Jeff have ever posted their existense on romance / courtship / information BBs.  I think that says something since Kat has over 2,000 Club members.  But then again there is reason these two men have been asked to leave the BBs even though they keep coming back causing trouble for many, not just me.

Blessings Art and I pray what goes around does come around as you will be BiG Winner with that concept.

Jen

@^_^@

... in response to I just feel you should be nominated for ..., posted by FilipinaCupid on Dec 9, 2001

respected your efforts.  I think once I even posted if I had not met Honey when I did my next action was to use your service.  I think you have done wonderful things for both Filipinas and many lonely men.  

I am very religious and I try hard not to impose my beliefs on others because they suit me and I although I would like them to suit others, it is their choice.  I think many here know that.  

But one thing they probably do not know about me is I come from many of Wrestling's World Champions.  My Great Aunt was June Byers, Women's Wrestling Champion of the World in 1969 (I think thats the right year) and she at one time was married to Cyclone Anaya who was also Men's Wrestling Champion of the World.  My aunt hit me once for accidentally burning my "ex" with a cigarette and I thought I would die before the breath came back to me.  I saw her one time throw my grandfather and pin him and make him beg for mercy.  I ate at Cyclone Anaya's restraunts for years until he died and his grandchildren failed the business.  My son was coached by his grandson in football for years.  I know that this business is pretty "tacky" sometimes but I have not seen it change in 47 years.  Its all show and lies but people pay for it.

I aso noticed from some of your sites that you deleted inappropriate pictures which says you have standards.  Still you play with fire but so far it look pretty meek to me.

Bear

... in response to I just feel you should be nominated for ..., posted by FilipinaCupid on Dec 9, 2001

I don't think they believe you.

... in response to One last Show of Faith, posted by Howard on Dec 8, 2001

Whenever my wife ran off to another state, the classic mistake that was made... was sending money instead of a non-refundable ticket.  First time, both of my parents made the mistake of sending her money when she was in vegas so she could get back home...

yeah right.

Of course, neither parent knew what the other had done for her...

By the time I found out that she had already ripped my parents to the tune of 1400.00 -700.00 each- (which nobody ever told me until I was trying to figure this thing out), I sent her a one way plane ticket....  Of course, by this time we had been "wonderfully married" (lol) for 2 years already.

Same situation ALMOST repeated itself in later years, but learned the lesson the first time.

And that's here in the states, no phone cards required.

But I must repeat... I had an odd-ball, as most other filipinas were a little more grounded than mine.

Just my 2 cents.  Good luck...