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Hi guys,

I just got a thought about something, and so I wanted to put down my thoughts before I forgot them.  It has to do with what women say and then what they think, ( in other words, how they really feel).
I will not even try to cover all aspects of this, because it would take up way too much time.  But, I will focus on at least 1 thing.  No doubt, a lot of this will apply to all women everywhere; but I will try to focus on the latinas. Now, on the agency websites, on the women's profiles, it is common to read that the women are less interested in what the man looks like, blah, blah, blah. Or she says that she doesn't really care about what a man looks like, etc.  There are many versions of basically the same thought.  First of all, do you guys think that the women actually wrote that, or is some chuckle head from the agency writing that because they think that is what the men want to hear?   I have read comments on this board that in some cases, agency owners or employees have written to some men, or write up the profile info and put in some misleading things.  But, the other part of that is to focus on the fact that no matter what anyone says, these latinas really do care about a man's appearance.  Most of you know that better than I do!   I know that I have read many posts on this board from many of you more experienced guys.  That has always been a strong point that you have made, and it is a very valid one.  In my limited experience, I have already found that to be true.  So, I can't understand why this "garbage" and misleading information is still out there?  If the ladies are actually writing this in their profile, then they are not telling the truth.  If the agencies are putting that down so that they can lure more gringos down, even if they look like crap-- we know the answer to that!  So, I just wanted to toss this out to you.  Hey, even I can figure this one out!

                                    OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

OM,
I think when a woman says in a profile looks are not important she is really saying she will consider a guy regardless  of looks.Its still importasnt I think.She is just indicating openess.AND she is talking about basic appearance,not clothing I would guess.Its best to present  yourself the best you can with what you have to
work with.You are OK in that department.When you start trying to talk to them and what you tell them is your challenge.
My take,when you got off that plane  Yadira liked what saw.Thats big when you have just been writing.How you related or failed to relate to her killed the deal.
Concentrate on that.Get a couch,you are not likely to figure it out on your own.
And you see contradiction where there is none here.You just have to understand what they are trying to say.They are telling the truth as they see it.Might be indicating more openess to poor appearance thasn thery really have,but you do not know untill you meet them.

Pete

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Pete E on Sep 28, 2005

Pete,

Thanks, and I am working on it.  Quite frankly, I am trying to figure out how to ask a lady some questions without overdoing it. Part of the problem is cultural, in that the girls are mostly laid back and on "latina time".  I am trying to learn more about that, but I am most certainly not a laid back guy.  That is just not my personality; so I will have to work on easing back a little.   Plus, I need to learn more spanish, but as you know, that is tough to do.   Also, time is an issue.  I know that it would be better to stay down there for weeks or months on end, etc.  But, as the old saying goes- Rome wasn't built in a day.  So, in the meantime, I am trying to "lighten up", but at the same time, get the desired results.  As far as the deal with Yadira, I have to admit that I blew it.  Plus, I will never know everything that transpired; so now, I am just willing to move on, forget it, and look for another latina. However, I do not want to repeat my past mistakes, so I am  trying to learn from those mistakes.  Take care.

                            OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

lies, misleading information, garbage, not telling the truth, latinas opinion about mens appearance....are you kidding me?
first of all, everyone lies, whether its a small one or big one,whether you call it stretching the truth, white lie, a lie is a lie. what kind of a lie are you willing to tolerate, put up with or accept?

of course latinas lie, they do it all the time, so what? they are not any different than the women here, they are not that tall unless they wear heels, their boobs aren't that big unless they wear wonder bras or have implants, they don't smell that good unless they put on perfume or look that good unless they put on makeup, they change the color of their hair, have extensions and use false nails, they lie about their weight and other things just to grab your attention, they are walking lies and deception, does this mean you are going to stop dating women?

agencies lie, big deal, they are a business, this is nothing new, does this mean that you are going to stop using the agencies? it is your responsibility to find out for yourself what these women want, need and desire, do not blame the agencies, they are there for one thing, to introduce you to women, thats it, nothing more. beyond that it falls entirely on your shoulders to learn the language, ask the women the right questions,learn to read between the lines, she how she reacts in certain situations, talk to her family, friends and ask her more questions.

are you going to change your attitude, way of dressing and grooming habits because you want to do it for yourself or just to impress a latina? will you be one person in colombia and another person here? are you willing to conform to her taste and way she would like you to look even after you bring her here or will you go back to the way you dressed before going to colombia? will you be a participant in the deception that goes on every day to get her attention? don't blame others or criticize what they put down on their profiles, they will tell you what you want to hear, anything to get your attention. are you going to blindly believe everything? use common sense, of course latinas care about your appearance, all women do, just like you care about their appearance, it is up to you to talk to them and see if they are being truthful, a vague profile will not tell you anything and the agencies cannot protect you, its all up to you.
JK

... in response to what?, posted by jediknight on Sep 28, 2005

Jediknight,

What you have said is true; however, I was making an observation, and true or not doesn't mean I have to like it!!  I understand that everyone wants to put their best foot forward, no question.  But, I am not nearly the first to gripe about similar issues like this one on this forum.  When I started on this message board about
1 1/2- 2 years ago, I barely knew anything, other than the geographical location of South America, and I knew that latinas were beautiful.  Other than that, not much.  So, I have attempted to learn from you and others on this board; to better educate myself about this process.   I have also made 2 trips to Cali.   Well, I think I have made significant process, but I certainly have a long ways to go.  I was simply trying to bring up a point that I thought would be a good topic of discussion.  I think I was right, just look at how many other posters have made their own comments, including you!

                           OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

In the daytime, I wear polo-type shirts and blue jeans. At night, I wear black jeans and short sleeves shirts.

I like jeans because they do not wrinkle like other types of pants - I seen guys wearing dockets that looked like they were taken right out of the hamper.

I make sure that my shoes (I take at least 2 pairs)are clean and of good quality.  I also make sure that my belt goes with the shoes. The ladies seem to like this style of dressing.

If I am meeting a professional lady for lunch, I would wear my black jeans (he-heh).

Unless you are wearing a "Guayavera" (cuban style shirt), make sure that your shirt is tucked in.

Latinas appreciate a man who smells good - do not wear the same pant two days in a row! A good cologne will score points for you.

I also shave twice a day. I would never go out on a night date wearing my 5-oclock shadow.

The only time I wear shorts is by the pool. I have heard many latinas make negative comments about men in shorts.

- Frank -

... in response to While In Colombia ...., posted by CaliBound on Sep 28, 2005


Unless dressed for business or formal attire most guys I see wear their shirts UNtucked no matter what the style of shirt, at least in Medellin.

... in response to Shirts In?, posted by pablo on Sep 29, 2005

totaly agree, shirt out is the sytle now

... in response to Shirts In?, posted by pablo on Sep 29, 2005

Same thing in Mexico.

... in response to While In Colombia ...., posted by CaliBound on Sep 28, 2005

[This message has been edited by jediknight]

also, latinas absolutly HATE men who wear dress shoes, slacks and white socks, almost as much as they hate men who sleep with their socks on
JK

... in response to white socks, posted by jediknight on Sep 28, 2005

Who wouldn't? They stand out like a comb-over. And it's best not to get cutesy with matching your socks to your necktie or whatever; if in doubt, just wear black socks. Unless you're wearing shorts, of course, then it's white.

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

I haven't read all the posts so I may repeat what another has already written.

My experiences on my first trips (to Cartagena and Cali) were more to the side of appearance not being a high priority for most ladies at the initial meeting.  I did not dress "metrosexual" on those or any other trips.  I dressed as I usually dressed in the US.  I did wear shorts to some "dates".  I mostly wore Lacoste style shirts, Dockers style pants, and tennis sneakers.  I did not dress to impress anyone.

I am sure that several, if not many, ladies were less than impressed at how I was dressed.  I did not care.  At the initial meeting I was interested ONLY in whether she was someone I wanted to see again. I had my list of topics to discuss and started in on them in Spanish after introducing myself.  I found that EVERY LADY disregarded my clothing as soon as she started responding to my prompt to tell me about the most important things she needed to be happy in a marriage.

I vividly remember one calena I met at the old Latin Love who was 180 degrees the opposite of me in dress style.  She was 25, had a VERY sexy curvy body, a pretty face, but TONS of make-up, long braided hair extensions past to her hips, long tri-color finger nails, and lots of jewely and accessories.  She worked in her older sister's beauty salon.  (2 of her sisters were also in the LL books.  She had 3 sisters, the oldest of whom owned the beauty salon.) I met her in shorts, white socks, sneakers, and casual shirt.  By the end of hour long initial meeting she was VERY interested in me DESPITE my very unimpresssive clothing.  However, her clothing was WAY too loud for me and I wasn't at all sure I could influence her in toning it down.  In addition, her voice was difficult to listen to for long periods of time.  So I passed on her.

Ladies only showed concern for my dress style AFTER they were interested in me and agreed to see me again.  It is clear to me that they are first looking at our personalities, then at our clothing, grooming etc.  They can (and will!!!) change our dress style after we are involved with them, but they can't change our personalities.  My advice is to be yourself and let your true personality show.  The lady who likes your personality will like you for you now and buy you a new wardrobe after.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Brazilophile on Sep 28, 2005

This is a variation on the old, idealistic, "People shouldn't judge me by how I dress."

 As Jim Rohn so aptly says, "Well, let me give you a clue: they do."

... in response to I disagree, posted by Bueller on Sep 28, 2005

I am not clear about the point on which you disagree.  I didn't say that the ladies I met didn't judge my way of dressing.  In fact, they did.  I said that that they judged my personality by the verbal interaction we had in our initial meeting.  The ladies that were sufficiently attracted to my personality agreed to see me again and then commented on my dress.  

I conclude with the claim that Latin women, at least the emotionally healthy and emotionally mature ones, place a higher priority on a man being faithful to her, treating her with respect, fullfilling his responsibilities as a husband and father, and loving her unconditionally, than on the clothes he wears.  I repeat what I said.  A woman can always change a man's clothing.  She can't change his personality and values.  Nothing in your post addresses or refutes my claim.

... in response to Re: I disagree, posted by Brazilophile on Sep 28, 2005

You put an unnecessary obstacle in your path.

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

It's less a matter of your natural physical makeup and more a matter of how you take care of yourself in terms of fitness, grooming and hygiene. If you're like a lot of AM, you could probably use some coaching and upgrading in this regard.

 The only specific I'd mention is: pay close attention to your shoes, because women do. If you go cheap on anything, don't let it be your shoes.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Bueller on Sep 28, 2005

Thanks for the tips Bueller, but if you will notice my original post, I was not asking for advice on how to dress.  That's not to say that I can't always improve.  I was commenting on what I have read on many websites where the impression is given that the ladies don't care about a man's appearance; and I was saying that I know for a fact that the latinas do indeed care about a man's appearance!  Therefore, I think that the websites are misleading.  I just don't know why they would do that-- other than they are trying to not give too much info that would make a "typical" american or European man hesitant about coming to Latin America.  Maybe they are worried that if they told the men the truth on the front in, it would scare them off?   I don't know.  At any rate,  I think that on this board, most of us agree that it is very important to make that good "first impression".

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men's ap..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 28, 2005

"Thanks for the tips Bueller, but if you will notice my original post, I was not asking for advice on how to dress."

 And I wasn't principally telling you how to dress; I was explaining what Latinas probably mean when they (or their middlemen) say they don't care about your looks.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Bueller on Sep 28, 2005

This caught my eye because even though my wife was Ukrainian & NOT Latina the SHOE issue came up. She did not mind the leather pants, VErsace & Ken Cole shirts, but the SHOE?! Or should I say boots. I have Harley Davidson boots & for some reason or other they simply were not "up to par" for Uke fashion. I was wondering how that would come to play wit the LW. My ex sister in law even said SHOEs were the FIRST thing she'd look for in a guy. To me that sounds SO petty considering I make more in a day than they make in a MONTH so why haggle over shoes? Go figure.
I hate to say it but to me that comes across as VERY shallow on THEIR part. I guess what gets me is they were VERY content when I was put in a pair of $20 CHINESE shoes that were a piece of $H!+. Go figure.

... in response to What's up with SHOE$?!, posted by Frank O on Sep 28, 2005

[This message has been edited by Bueller]

 Shallow? Ask a woman sometime what it feels like to be scoped up and down and accepted/rejected within the first five seconds without any regard for her personhood. That runs across cultural lines. This "thing" women have about shoes runs across cultural lines, too, so just accept it. At least it's something we can easily change.

... in response to What's up with the T&A (or whatever)..., posted by Bueller on Sep 28, 2005

You have a point in that we CAN change it. I just don't understand why the SHOES were suck a biggie. In other words the watch, the shirts, the jacket, the pants etc were ALL fine but the boots were not & thus pretty much disqualified everything else from being "ok".?!

... in response to What's up with SHOE$?!, posted by Frank O on Sep 28, 2005

Frank,

I am not the guru of fashion here, but I would be willing to bet that there a few basic issues with the shoes.  First of all, it probably has something to do with the fact that they may assume that what you wear is all you have, or the best you have?  I don't know. But, certainly I think the more tradional pair of dress shoes is somehow a big part of their perception of a man who is successful.  (sort of like the old suit and tie thing at business meetings).  Here in the States, we have seen the trends change from strictly business attire considered appropriate, to business casual.  Plus, let's face it; leisure wear has exploded in the States over the last 20-30 years.  I easily remember when all of this casual clothing did not even exist. I don't think a lot of that has caught on in Latin America.  I would think that to some degree that is good; because we all comment on how we like the girls to dress up(plus the sexy clothes).   In their culture that is encouraged.  If AW dressed like some of the latinas do, they would look like  hookers (here in the States).    So, I guess it's the old "when in Rome", thing.

                               OkieMan

... in response to Re: What's up with SHOE$?!, posted by OkieMan on Sep 28, 2005

n/t

... in response to Re: What's up with SHOE$?!, posted by OkieMan on Sep 28, 2005

I guess what I did NOT understand was how a several 100$ pair of boots were NOT up to standard but a $20 pair of CHINESE shoes that fall apart after a week were. THAT just got me. Personally I felt like sticking my size 10 boot up their ar$e.

... in response to Re: Re: What's up with SHOE$?!, posted by Frank O on Sep 28, 2005

Frank O,

You crack me up.  I don't know about the boot deal either.  I guess they just prefer dress shoes, what can I say?  Someone else commented about cowboy boots.  I had thought that some ladies might like that; especially the ones that comment that they like horses.   In Oklahoma, we have more horses than people!  I am not exactly the cowboy type, but I do love horses, and I used to own some.  But, not anymore.  However, I live just outside of town, and I have neighbors who own horses; one neighbor has a business where he boards them for some people.  Right behind my place is open pasture land, and there is a rancher who has cattle there.  So,  as far as boots are concerned, I think it could be a "big city" thing too.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

Not to sound like im questioning anything except to say. What person wants to be with someone who does not take care of their appearance? I do not think Latin women differ anymore than any other woman.
Not to offend , But no matter the heritage, Neat people gravitate towards other neat people and people who are not so detailed in the way they dress or look do the same.

Birds of a feather i think. I really do not think Latinas are any different.

Perhaps the agencies exploit men`s failures with women of their own culture in order to get business, the claim being if some man is striking out with women in the United States(or wherever) Its not him, Its the women and latin women will be more forgiving as to appearance on the whole?...Its individual to individual but if you get no attention at all, Dont think your off the hook by going to Latin america, Check the mirror first and ask if anyone would want to be seen with you. :)

... in response to Why is this a "Latina" prefere..., posted by Brassa on Sep 28, 2005

Brassa,

Good point.

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

you have a super keen eye....thanks for sharing that big kihuna tidbit.....brother i know in time we'll find our soul mates in wonderland cali

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

Hmmm, I seem to remember wearing Levis and polo shirts with athletic outdoor shoes most of the time in Colombia.  I dressed better when we went out at night.  Slacks, the same polo shirts, and decent shoes.   Wore shorts & t-shirts around Cartegena & surrounding islands during the day.

Perhaps the key is to be yourself, but be at least aware of cultural norms.  Doesn't hurt to be in good physical shape, well-groomed, date women near your own age & speak Spanish as well...

I would spend more energy on studying Spanish and less on every other aspect of this game.  It'll be a far more productive use of your time.  Then consider your next trip just a vacation and opportunity to pratice your Spanish.  And who knows, you might even meet a nice lady while there on vacation.

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

The first time in Colombia, back when Latin Connections was the place. I was sitting at the table outside on the deck, me and two other guys who left Latin Best (back then it was called Latin’s worst) anyways, we were having breakfast, and in walks this guy, wearing a blue bandana, an army camouflage t shirt with the sleeves cut off, white socks, hiking boots, and some kind of shorts, smoking a cigarette, and carrying an army duffle bag. ( no kidding!!) Our jaws dropped to the floor as we couldn’t believe this guy was now a new client, here to meet girls.

I watched his 1st appointment show up, some girl about 23, and you should have seen the look on her face when she found out he was her date, and it was a site to see. In the interview, (still wearing the same outfit) he pops open a beer, and  lights up a cigarette in front of this poor girl.  After about 20 minutes, she reaches over and puts out the cigarette, probably had enough.

And this guy couldn’t figure out why he couldn’t find a girl who liked him. He was an ok guy, personality wise, but come on, do some research on the culture,  they are not into hippy, army hicks, walking out of the jungle.  Guys, get some class, dress nice, casual nice, Dockers, nice shirt, nice jeans and shoes, definitely NO shorts, no sandals/ flip flops.  Dress to impress!!!!!!!

... in response to you wouldnt believe, posted by mudd on Sep 28, 2005

Mudd,

That is an extreme example, but a good one, and kind of funny too.  I think the guy would be more happy chasing girls at a biker rally, or a "hippie commune", if any still exists.  Oh well, it takes all kinds.

                           OkieMan

... in response to you wouldnt believe, posted by mudd on Sep 28, 2005

man you're beautiful...thanks for the monumental insight....

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

Ok fellas, for those of you that are knowledgeable, answer me this please. I for the most part tend to be a Levis, and T-shirt kind of guy. Not too much into the atheletic shoes, as I am a fan of Doc Martens. My dress code as a truck driver, is a uniform. When I go out,to a  nice restaurant,a play, concert,etc,. I am a Kenneth Cole/Perry Ellis  man in that regards. Now about the hands, I do take care of them, sometimes I do break down and get a manicure, but I prefer to do my own "firewalkers" (feet). The question is, what do the Latinas think of someone who has facial hair, sometimes a goatee and mustach, sometimes completely shaven. And what do they think of jewelry in general. I have both ears pierced (twice) and I wear a watch and a bracelet, and I also sometimes when dress wear a matching set of pinky rings and a necklace. All of this is either silver, or sometimes white gold. I know that it may sound a lil ostentatious, but I believe I am well within range of the "taste meter", and I would be what you consider a "big city" guy since San Francisco, is nearby. Any comments? Please do tell.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by FanMan on Sep 28, 2005

Fanman,

Again, I am not the supreme expert here, but I will give you my opinion.  By the way, I have many relatives in the Bay area, mostly in around San Pablo and Richmond. Well, to get back to your questions.  Just remember that you are going to meet latinas on their home turf.  They are much different than the California girls you are probably used to.  So, my simple suggestion is to leave the jewelry at home.  Besides, you don't want to draw undue attention to yourself in Colombia, or wherever you are going-- you might get mugged!  But, the main thing is that you need to find out what type of lady you are really attracted to, and then see if that is compatible with you.  Again, I am far from an expert in this field, but a little common sense goes a long while.  Mudd just wrote a humorous post, so check out his post.  The guy looked like he came out of an army field excercise or a biker rally. There is  no way the girls were going to go for him.  They are interested in a guy dressing up (at least a little) for them.  It is a compliment to them.  I would also look at Teo Blas' post.  He lives in Cali and really knows more than I do about this.  But, the "over the top" look is going to make the good girls run for cover.  If you tone it down, look like you are going out on a Saturday night date with a great lady, and act like a gentleman, you will do well.  That's just my two cents.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by FanMan on Sep 28, 2005

If you look good completely shaved,I would shave off any facial hair.  Get rid of the pierced ears, and the matching pinky rings.  A watch and bracelet are fine...the Kenneth Cole/Perry Ellis look will win you alot of points, both day and night...
Good Luck!!

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by FanMan on Sep 28, 2005

I've most always usewd a goatee, no problem there.  Gals usually like it.  Perry Ellis/Kenneth Kole wins points there.  Jewelry, as long as it's tasteful get's you points also.  They like a guy who tries to look the best he can and has some style.  You should have no problems on the dress scale, probably doing a little better than most, IMHO. -TNC

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

Hola,
This is a great point you brought up,  Please, remember you are not Hawaii!!! (I'm talking about Cali, we don't even have a beach) I have when men come here and they wear the big shirts with flowers and the bermudas shorts and the flip-flops....  Remember, jeans and regular t-shirts are fine, and please oh please, no sandals! and always wear socks with your shoes,
Caro

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by darolina1 on Sep 27, 2005

make sure they are not white socks
JK

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by darolina1 on Sep 27, 2005

darolina 1,

Thanks for your comments.  You know you have caused quite a stir here on our board.  We are all excited about you posting on this board; and if possible, we would really enjoy hearing from other latinas as well.  We really want and need your information and opinions.  Take care.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

If anyone out there believes  a latin woman is not interesteded in the style of clothes you wear, you might as well continue to go after the AW

STYLE COUNTS FOR A TONNNNNNNN

I have had more latinas tell me they hate the clothes we americans wear in general. The tropical  flower shirts, save it for Cartagena or San Andres. Shorts as well as shorts are considered the highest form of bad presentation in all cities except again , Cartagena and San Andres. You guys need to take  more note of style. I live in the South and thank god i do not dress like we do here. I have said it before and say it again, TAKE NOTE MEN , ITALIAN, ITALIAN, ITALIAN.

For some reason, god knows why, the colombian woman have a facination with anything and everything italian. I have always dressed more NY Style or Italian Style, so i never had to worry about the way i dressed there. So if you really want to score style points wise, go to some store that carries italian style garments and load up

Or, you can look like a Thanksgiving Turkey instead !

Oh, latinos do not celebrate Thanksgiving . GET IT ??

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Sep 27, 2005

Kiltboy1,

That's fascinating about the Italian clothing stuff, but the Italians are big on fashion, that is true.  I probably don't have anything Italian in my wardrobe, but I will take note.  Still, I do try to dress to impress.  That is at least a small thing that I can control.  The other stuff I'm still working on.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

[This message has been edited by CelticUrge]

Okieman

I'll bite that hook.

Let me address just one aspect of your inquiry, attire. I'll leave the physical aspect of appearance to others to comment on later. Also search the archives for numerous discussions of physical appearance. I personally like the concept of not going more than "3" above your own looks.

American's, both men and women, for the most part, dress like slobs with absolutely no self-respect or self-esteem.

I'll just leave that out there as a separate "paragraph" to make it a bit more obvious. When you travel to South  America (I consider Central America to be different), take a close look at how the people dress and emulate that style yourself. Leave the Nike's and Reeboks at home. Possibly take one pair only if you want to run every day or work out at the gym. Leave the sandals and shorts at home. Leave the fancy jewelry, gold chains, expensive watch, etc. at home unless it's acceptable for you to "loose" it. Buy a "beater" watch for $50-200 and wear this. Leave the t-shirts at home, except for one or two for jogging and going to the gym. Wear real shoes with a sole. Wear real slacks. Wear a real shirt with a collar and buttons. Even a short sleeve collared "polo" shirt will do. For a fancy date with someone you know already and take to a "special" place, wear a coat and tie. Never wear a bolo. Wear the jeans only for very casual outings, such as a field trip to visit the Salt Mines, or going horseback riding. Show others, especially your date, that you are confident and have self esteem. Go get a haircut, pedicure and manicure, and do it regularly. If you bite your nails, stop. Use hand lotion, for your skin, not for a hand job. I assume you guys can figure out how to mix and match slacks, shirts, belts and shoes to make a good presentation. If you need suspenders, try to make the presentation look good.

What does this mean for most guys? Before your trip you need to go clothes shopping. Try to find some gay guy to help you out so it all looks good and pay attention to what goes together and why it works. If you don't have any gay friends it's your loss. They know style. Find a woman to help you shop. Read the book "Men of Style" or something similar and learn from it.

Now here's the real "Catch 22." Once you bring her home and revert to your old ways of dressing it will become obvious to her that she has been played for a sucker and you are indeed just putting on airs to catch a woman and not being honest about it. So, when you return to the U.S. keep it up and dress like you respect yourself.

I probably have not met any of you guys, or very few, and I'm not trying to p**s anyone off or insult you. Just telling it like it is. You have no idea how important this is to these women and what a difference it will make in how you are perceived by them. There is a reason the women dress well and you should do the same if you expect her to be with you.

Simple.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 27, 2005

One other reason I lost interest in Latinas. I'm blue collar and not interested in being dressed as a gay man. No time to waste on manicures I would just destroy them the next day at work.

... in response to Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men's ap..., posted by stefang on Sep 27, 2005

stefang

I'm not saying that you need to act and dress as well as a gay guy, just make some effort. They are proud of their appearance and expect you and I to make an effort. Believe me, I am hard on the nails, etc. myself.

... in response to Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men's ap..., posted by stefang on Sep 27, 2005

Here is a stereotype right here. All Latinas want a man right out of "Queer Eye for a Straight Guy". To be sure they don't want a smelly guy who doesn't take care of himself but does he have to be some metrosexual? No. I used to be a cowboy. I lived on a ranch with my cows and horses raising hay and oats when we got enough rain. Some Latinas were not interested in that kind of life but some of them were. In fact a fair number thought it was romantic to have a vaquero of their very own, including my wife. My advice is be yourself. Who wants to have to be somebody else to land a woman? I'd have been better off with my dog in that case.

... in response to This is what I am talking about, posted by utopiacowboy on Sep 27, 2005

Right on, as usual. My wife loves her Wranglers (with the brads) and her ropers, mine too of course. She MAKES me wear my sandals in summer, especially when we are in Peru. In fact, everywhere I go in Peru in summer, nicely-dressed men are in nice shorts/sandals. Maybe different in COL., I guess.

... in response to This is what I am talking about, posted by utopiacowboy on Sep 27, 2005

Utopiacowboy,

Good advice.  Just call me the "Duke". ha Just kidding.

                              OkieMan

... in response to This is what I am talking about, posted by utopiacowboy on Sep 27, 2005

Be upfront and honest. If she waffles or is not interested, move on. Wait for the one that can't live without you.

... in response to Re: This is what I am talking about, posted by CelticUrge on Sep 27, 2005

This is the holy grail of advice. Follow this and you don't need anything else. Regardless of what type of personality you have or how you dress, or whatever, find the one that likes you for you and you will do OK. Great way to condense the entire Q&A process into two sentences CU...

... in response to Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men's ap..., posted by stefang on Sep 27, 2005

Stefang,

I can assure, ain't no gay guy going to be giving me advice on how to dress!  I will leave that to the big city boys, I guess.  But, I wouldn't want to drop my interest of latinas because of that.  The truth be known, all women want their men to look well groomed.  At least, any woman that I would be interested in.  After all, I don't my woman to be a slob either.  Having said that, we have all made some mistakes in the grooming department.  I'm not trying be a "big shot".  I'm just trying to show the lady that I care about my appearance.  I need all the help I can get, and I'm not getting any younger.

                            OkieMan

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 27, 2005

CelticUrge,

This is all excellent advice, and I certainly have listened to the many guys on this board who have been posting this information for some time.  However, the reason I brought it up was because I have seen numerous times on many agency websites that would lead us to believe that the women are less concerned with our appearance, blah, blah, blah.  Maybe it sometimes has to do with the quality of the translations, but  I think it has more to do with the agencies trying to earn more money.  Any agency staff member worth their salt knows the difference.  Whatever the reason, I just wanted to comment on this
"misinformation".  Plus, this is one area that I picked up on really fast.  There are indeed cultural differences.
For instance, I have always kept my nails neatly trimmed.  I do not bite my nails, but I like them short because I play the guitar, and it's just my personal choice since I was a kid.  But, up until this past May, I had never gotten a professional manicure.  I felt that I was good enough at it, that I did not need it.   Also, I have been in sales for many years, and dirty hands are a no no.  But, having said that, the latina that I was dating this summer, took me to a manicure shop in Cali (for my birthday).  At 52, I had my first professional manicure!  By american standards I have always tried to achieve good grooming, especially when I go out to dinner on a date, etc.  But, let's face it, these latinas are really into all the extras-- and I don't mind a bit.  Especially, when the girl comes out looking like a million dollars!! ha
But, going back to my original point, for whatever reasons, there is a lot of misinformation about this point; in my opinion, and I just thought I would comment about it.  Any guy who is brand new, and has never been to Latin America, could greatly benefit by these simple points.  The questions I have been asking recently are not as simple.

                            OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men's ap..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

Okieman

I am not convinced this is "misinformation" as you state. There is a language difference and you are dealing with a simplistic system that makes generalities about the men and women involved. We all "fill in the blanks" so to speak on the forms. This is not deception, it is a very general answer to a more complex question. It is your responsibility to speak frankly and openly with any woman you meet, preferably in her own native language, and determine the answer to these questions on your own. The agency is not misrepresenting the woman and she is not misrepresenting herself, at least in 99% of the cases. Are you prepared to stand up and state that you represent yourself in an open and honest manner to these people who speak another language? There is something lost in the translation and you are indeed responsible for making the effort to bridge that gap yourself. It is not the agencies responsibility, it is not the woman's responsibility, it is your's and mine. The buck stops here! Make no effort to clarify and you loose. Take no responsibility and you loose. The most important factor in your success is not the agency, it is not the women who join the agency, it is not the city you visit, it is not the contacts you have in that location, it is not the information you receive from this, or any other forum, it is not the tour, it is not the local newspaper advertisement, it is you and I and any other man who gets into this game. You are responsible. You are the one and only key to success or failure. The burden is squarely on your shoulders. Shoulder that burden well my friend on your subsequent trips and you may succeed. Slough it off and you will fail.

BTW, prior to my first trip to Colombia, I had never had a manicure or pedicure. I am in sales and often attend trade shows where I am dressed well and on my feet all day shaking hands and kissing babies. By the end of the day, it is more like shaking babies and kissing hands, at least in my dreams and thoughts. Anyway, after my first pedicure, this became a standard for me. I now never go to a trade show without first having a pedicure. What an amazing and wonderful difference in comfort level this makes for my feet. Too bad I didn't learn it 20 years ago. My mistake.

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men'..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 27, 2005

CelticUrge,

Thanks for the info. By the way, what type of trade shows to you  go to?  I agree with what you said about the misunderstandings concerning translations, etc.  But, still, I just wanted to comment on this aspect of the process.  At least this is something that I can readily understand, and I am always working on learning more.  Thanks again for your comments.

                            OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about ..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 28, 2005

"what type of trade shows to you go to?"

Atlanta Gift Show, Jan. & July
Surf Expo, Orlando, FL, Jan. & Sept.
Museum Store Association, May, venue changes every year
Smoky Mountain Gift Show, Gatlinburg, TN, Nov.
Pigeon Forge Gift Show, Pigeon Forge, TN, Nov.
Arkansas State Park Gift Show, Bismarck, AR, Dec.
MAGIC, Las Vegas, NV, Feb. & Sept. (Men's Apparel and Gifts in California - started out in CA, show moved to Vegas many years ago)

I used to do several others but scaled back years ago. Enough is enough.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Latinas opinions ab..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 28, 2005

Celtic Urge,

That is interesting.  So, what type of business are you in anyhow?  Are you wholesale or retail?  Just curious.  It sounds like you do some interesting things.  When I was in the fund raising industry, many years ago; I went to many teacher's conventions, etc.  The company I worked for did fund raising in schools, and so we had to court the teachers, band and choir directors, PTA groups, etc.  I did that back in the 80's and early 90's- for about 7 years.

                                 OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Latinas opinion..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 28, 2005

I sell t-shirts, hats, backpacks, etc., mostly for kids, some adult merchandise, to Zoos, Museums, Aquariums, Wildlife Parks, Observatories, NASA, theme parks, attractions, beach stores, outdoor outfitters, canoe/tube rentals, Botanical Gardens, Butterfly Centers, state parks, etc.

Commission only. I have no set paycheck. Paid once a month. In the past, my background is academics, seven colleges, taught microbiology, ABD, left prior to finishing graduate degree to move to Houston to go into business with my ex best friend. Research specifically aquatic cave ecosystem ecology. More or less Marine Biology in cave systems. At that time, I was also on "soft" money, working contracts for research through the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, State of Florida, State of Virginia, State of Kentucky, etc. I quite honestly have never had a "real" job working in a office, for any company, ever. I've always been working for myself and my income depends completely on whether I produce the goods, so to speak. More potential risk, higher potential return. If you are good, you can make a lot of money. If you suck at it, too bad.

As you can see, my customer base and the lines/companies I choose to represent, are from my background and my past.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Latinas opi..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 28, 2005

Thanks for the info.  That sounds very interesting. By the way, there is a city named Jenks, that is a suburb of Tulsa.  They now have a large aquarium, and it draws about 1/2 million people a year, or so I am told.  Plus, in Tulsa, they are in the process of starting Botanical Garden, and it is supposed to be in the same location as a giant statue of an American Indian (It's supposed to be taller than the Statue of Liberty when completed.  This is all new stuff for the Tulsa area.  Naturally, we have had a large zoo here for many years.  I just thought you might find that info interesting.  The other thing is last year we passed a large bond issue help make many improvements to many projects throughout Tulsa county.  One of those projects is building a new arena downtown. The convention center is growing a well.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Latinas..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 29, 2005

Tulsa Zoo and Oklahoma Aquarium are customers.

I've been out of town several days. Now attempting to catch up. Many posts on PL and WLC since I left. Busy people are typing their fingers off lately.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 27, 2005

Radio guy was doing a stik about going into a haberdashery the other day. "Uhn Uh, get away you other salesman! I want the GAY guy to wait on me"....of course he played it out longer than that, but he was making the same point that you just made.

... in response to Re: Re:  Latinas opinions about men's ap..., posted by Michael B on Sep 27, 2005

I have several customers that are gay. Over the years we have become friends and I have learned not to be the least bit hesitant to call and ask advice on any issue of style, dress, etc. They are completely "unforgiving" on this issue. It's right or wrong, no gray area. Get over the "fear" straight guys have of gays and embrace them as friends, seek their advice as needed. They are loyal and valuable friends. The guys that have a problem with this are just way too insecure IMO. Do you think they all want to have sex with you? I don't think so! What's your problem straight guy? Get over it and treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself. If you are gay, or have a thing for small to medium size farm animals or furry woodland creatures, that is your personal choice and preogative. That does not mean that I am the same or will be "lured" into your ways. Geeezzzz. Men in this country are so incredibly insecure, and I'm not referring to you Michael, just making a general observation, you just gave me the opportunity to make the point. When I go shopping for anything important, like apparel, home decorations, new remodelling ideas, etc. I want a woman with a great sense of style to assist me, or my number one choice, some gay guy(s) that are willing to assit me. They just know these things way better than the rest of us. That in no way has any affect on my own sexuality or manhood.

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

Well, here's my opinion. And as Badge 714 used to say when asked for his opinion "My opinion and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee in any cafe in this city".

Appearance can encompass many things.
1) Physically handsome-Don't look like the Hunchback of Notre Dame or Dr. Frankenstein’s monster...anything better than those two examples is acceptable.
2) Dress-Doesn't have to be expensive, but does have to be neat, coordinated and appropriate for the occasion.
3) Good grooming-A must.

Do the agencies write the womens' profiles? Some do, some provide a 'I have these attributes and I want a man with those attributes' list for them to pick from. Some coach the ladies a little (or a lot), some provide an accurate translation of what the lady actually said, some (through incompetence) provide a not so accurate translation of what the lady said.......even the agencies that coach the ladies, most of them do it with a 'put your best foot forward' attitude, not an outright attempt of deception.

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Michael B on Sep 27, 2005

Michael B,

I liked the Dragnet, Joe Friday comment.  Well, naturally you are right.  It's just that there are some points that are more glaring than others.  Even a guy with no more experience than me can see that the picture being painted on the websites are, in many cases pure bull!  Having said that, guys like me need the agencies, up to a point.  Mainly because I am not yet fluent in spanish, but also because I can't move down there, or stay for really long periods of time.  So, that is one thing that I think should be mentioned-- with the hope that the misconception will not continue.  I just wish some of the other things I am trying to learn were as easy to correct. ha

                             OkieMan

... in response to Latinas opinions about men's appearance, posted by OkieMan on Sep 27, 2005

OKM,
you're right on the money.  I have yet to meet a latina that isn't very careful about her appearance, and just as interested in the appearance of her novio, even on a date, they will sometimes suggest what you wear, etc.  one said to me that the appearance of her man reflects on her, ie. is she taking care of him like she should...

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Ricardo on Sep 27, 2005

Richardo,

Yes, that is a true picture of the ladies' viewpoint, I am sure.  So, I am trying to do my part, and maybe a few more men will benefit by our comments.

                               OkieMan

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Ricardo on Sep 27, 2005

[This message has been edited by Michael B]

Should have read your post before I posted mine. "the appearance of her man reflects on her, ie. is she taking care of him like she should... "......I hear that often (but in a good way, like when she's bought me a new shirt or somesuch)

... in response to Re:  Latinas opinions about men's appear..., posted by Ricardo on Sep 27, 2005

You can see it in public as well. It seems they pay attention to others to see if they are watching them. Most Latinas don't dress sexy for you but for themselves to try to show their sexiness and beauty to orhers.