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GoodWife / Planet-Love Archives => Threads started in 2005 => Topic started by: CelticUrge on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM



Title: Psychological Consequences of Welfare State
Post by: CelticUrge on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
This supports the old adage that it is hard to drain the swamp when you are up to your ass in alligators.

---------------------------------

Katrina a different story
2Sept2005 - By Robert Tracinski

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicles, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed; they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets, she said. They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will."

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005



Title: More Welfare Mentality?
Post by: Ray on September 07, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Psychological Consequences of Welfare St..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

I saw an interview last night with the head of the NAACP discussing the storm and relief efforts. He said congress should suspend all other business until it can pass a victim relief fund bill like they did for the victims of 9/11. His reasoning was that if the 9/11 victims deserved millions of dollars in compensation, then surely the victims of Katrina deserved the same.

I thought the primary reason for the 9/11 relief fund was to offer the victims an alternative to the expected deluge of lawsuits against the airlines. By giving them cash now instead of waiting years to drag the airlines through the courts, the transportation infrastructure could recover faster and the victims would have tangible funds available quickly. Personally, I didn’t particularly agree with the logic behind the 9/11 victim fund and I think it set a dangerous precedent. But isn’t the damage from Katrina an act of God? Maybe the NAACP should be suing God instead of trying to milk the taxpayers. Perhaps the substantial help coming in from the private sector and the government isn’t enough in their minds. Perhaps they think the victims of Katrina should all come out of this as millionaires? Well, that's what it sounded like.

As a side note, the NAACP said that it was insensitive of Bush and terrible timing to announce that John Roberts would be nominated for Chief Justice. Excuse me? I know the NAACP is vehemently opposed to the nomination of Roberts, but was it bad timing for Chief Justice Rehnquist to die during the storm recovery??? How dare he! Maybe they should sue Rehnquist’s estate because he died at the wrong time.

I don’t know. I just don’t understand some of this angry thinking…

Ray



Title: Re: More Welfare Mentality?
Post by: doombug on September 08, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to More Welfare Mentality?, posted by Ray on Sep 7, 2005

"His reasoning was that if the 9/11 victims deserved millions of dollars in compensation, then surely the victims of Katrina deserved the same."

I knew this shit was coming.

The average pay out for 9/11 victims was a little over $2 million each.

If taxpayers get stuck footing settlements for Katrina "victims" and other future natural and/or terrorist events, current and future charity drives will dry up, and people will start rightly suing for refunds on their donations.

More dumb precedents.  Ciao, America!



Title: Re: More Welfare Mentality?
Post by: CelticUrge on September 07, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to More Welfare Mentality?, posted by Ray on Sep 7, 2005

You're right (or left, I don't know!) but correct. People act strangely when emotions rather than logic rule the day.

I believe the NAACP vs. GOD case is being plea bargained as we speak. Something about the victims having to say a few thousand "Hallelujah's" and the responsible local and federal authorities having to say a few thousand "Hail Mary's" but I didn't catch all the details. The threat of lightening bolts brought an early judgement. Apparently, the prosecuting attorneys are pissed that they are not receiving a cash settlement. Perhaps they will next sue the estate of Chief Justice Rehnquist. I have to tune in "This Week In God" on "The Daily Show with John Stewart" to check out the details.



Title: Re: Psychological Consequences of Welfare State
Post by: OkieMan on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Psychological Consequences of Welfare St..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

Celtic Urge,

I wish someone could get a copy of this article to the White House and Homeland Security.  I think this guy hit the nail on the head.  The only big issue he did not deal with was the gross misuse of the Mississippi River, the destruction the natural marshlands around New Orleans that somehow must be rebuilt, etc.  The levees and dykes will only do so much.  Once these issues are addressed and residential districts are not rebuilt in the fish bowl (I hope); then New Orleans can once again flourish.  I know that entire area is very low (altitude wise); but the Dutch have a great system of (dikes or dykes?) and levees.  By the way, the Dutch are sending over some new pumps to to help pump out that mess down there.  But, that will take at least a month, if not longer.  God help them!

                                 OkieMan



Title: Re: Re: Psychological Consequences of Welfare State
Post by: CelticUrge on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Psychological Consequences of Welfar..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 6, 2005

"the Dutch have a great system of (dikes or dykes?) and levees"

We have one of those south of Houston in Texas City. She is known as "The Texas City Dyke". The first time I went there I was dissapointed that it was not a person. LOL

If you want a good background and foundation regarding the problems of the river system and bayous of Louisiana read the following:

"Designing the Bayous: The Control of Water in the Atchafalaya Basin 1800-1995." by Martin Reuss. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 1998.



Title: Re: Re: Re: Psychological Consequences of Welfare State
Post by: OkieMan on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Re: Psychological Consequences of We..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

Celtic Urge,

Back in the late '60s and early '70s, my family and I lived in South Texas (Conroe outside of Houston) and used to go to Texas City to see some family friends, and we would go fishing off the coast of Galveston.  That was fun!  I remember the people telling us about the big explosion of the Union Carbide plant years before that.  I even saw a ship's anchor that was thrown a long ways from the blast, and they just made a small monument of it.  I am sure you are aware of that.  I was just a teenager at the time, so now I look back at those days with fondness.  For some reason, I just never have had the occasion to go back.

                             OkieMan



Title: Excellent: self-induced helplessness & incompetent city government
Post by: Jamie on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Psychological Consequences of Welfare St..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

"...the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism."



Title: Re: Excellent: self-induced helplessness & incompetent city government
Post by: david hagar on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Excellent: self-induced helplessness &am..., posted by Jamie on Sep 6, 2005

In southern Mississpi, a group of veterans near an army base said that if they have the gas for the generators, they could survive. Total different attitude than from the people of New Orleans


Beattledog



Title: Account name corrected
Post by: Patrick on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Excellent: self-induced helplessness..., posted by david hagar on Sep 6, 2005

I changed your username.  You're now Beattledog again.


Title: Re: Account name corrected
Post by: Beattledog on September 07, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Account name corrected, posted by Patrick on Sep 6, 2005

Patrick

Thanks for correcting this

Beattledog



Title: Re: Excellent: self-induced helplessness & incompetent city government
Post by: david hagar on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Excellent: self-induced helplessness &am..., posted by Jamie on Sep 6, 2005

In southern Mississpi, a group of veterans near an army base said that if they have the gas for the generators, they could survive. Total different attitude than from the people of New Orleans


Beattledog



Title: Re: Excellent: self-induced helplessness & incompetent city government
Post by: CelticUrge on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Excellent: self-induced helplessness &am..., posted by Jamie on Sep 6, 2005

Isn't it interesting that so many successful people in our society are "confirmed individuals" (my term). Many on this forum seem quite independent and individual. What a shame that we have two lost generations of significant numbers of people with no individual drive, self esteem, etc. Result is "self-induced helplessness & incompetence" as you suggested.


Title: Re: Psychological Consequences of Welfare State
Post by: 350z on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Psychological Consequences of Welfare St..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

Very well written!  I believe that we are all involved with this catastrophe, we will all need to work together to continue our way of life.  Obviously, we need to change some things dealing with a disaster such as this one.  All of our government will have to evaluate this situation after the fact to come up with a better plan.  I personally feel our Federal Government has done a good job in the response, and I hope that this never happens again, but we will be better prepared next time.


Title: Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miami Culture
Post by: Heat on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Psychological Consequences of Welfare St..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

I was working in our Field office in Miami during Andrew.

I was sent in with my M-16 to secure the Federal office and the U.S Attorneys office right after the storm hit.

As Miami is almost all Latin I can tell you with very few exceptions people were kind, and generous to each other and to us the Feds and local police.

There was a cultural difference of people helping each other.  There was that Latin feeling of one big family who had suffered a great loss.

What I see in Miami is the urban welfare state on full display.

When you have a culture of dog eat dog you get just that.

What a shame people have be kept on the "plantation" for so long.  As the majority of welfare recipients are white this issue is not one of color but one of culture.

Now we have Jessie Jackson and "The Reverend" Al Sharpton leaded the race baiting left wingers using this to try and score political advantage.

Like vultures the never seem to be far away from the smell of death.



Title: Re: Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miami Culture
Post by: Keith NC on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miam..., posted by Heat on Sep 6, 2005

Heat,

If those two clowns didn't have racism to complain about.  They would be out of a job.  I will never forget the Tawanna Brawley case back in the 80's.  She put herself in a plastic bag and wrote racial epithets on the bag.  She said that two NY Police officers did it to her.  Clown Sharpton was there from the beginning.  She finally admitted that she did it because she didn't want to get in trouble with her Mom for being out all night.  Clown Sharpton continued to claim racism even though the cops didn't do anything to her.



Title: Re: Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miami Culture
Post by: OkieMan on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miam..., posted by Heat on Sep 6, 2005

Heat,

Right on. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are a disgrace to their people!  In my mind, they are Reverands in name only.  They don't preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.  They preach the "gospel" of hate the white man, and the government owes you a living, etc!  It is unfortunate that those two, among others could not some how find themselves caught in one of these storms in a leaky boat! ha  I am being a little silly, but seriously, I think the minorities of all types (black, hispanic, asian, etc) all need to see themselves as americans and live useful lives.  Unfortunately, some of them choose to adopt  "the government and the world owes me something" attitude.  But, also unfortunately, the Jesse Jacksons and the Al Sharptons of this world have so brainwashed their own people-- they can't see the forest for the trees!



Title: Re: Right on...
Post by: Ray on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miam..., posted by Heat on Sep 6, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

I think Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, and the rest of the race-baiters could serve a valuable purpose in New Orleans if we use them as sand bags to help fill the gaps in the levees... :-)


Title: Re: Re: Right on...
Post by: Keith NC on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Right on..., posted by Ray on Sep 6, 2005

Ray,

That is hate speech. LOL.  I happen to agree with you.



Title: Re: Re: Right on...
Post by: CelticUrge on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Right on..., posted by Ray on Sep 6, 2005

The only problem with that "solution" is once their bloated fat asses gas up and explode, there will be another breach in the levee, only much larger. The military will later refer to them as the "JJ Bomb" and "Sharpton Scrapnel".


Title: OOPS!
Post by: Ray on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Re: Right on..., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 6, 2005

Gee, I didn't think of that. Thanks for pointing that out...LOL!


Title: Re: Re: Right on...
Post by: Bueller on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Right on..., posted by Ray on Sep 6, 2005

Problem is, it's not sand they're full of.


Title: ROFLMAO! n/t
Post by: Ray on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Re: Right on..., posted by Bueller on Sep 6, 2005

:-)


Title: Re: Re: Re: Right on...
Post by: Heat on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Re: Right on..., posted by Bueller on Sep 6, 2005

Now that was funny!


Title: why does the left feel the need to exacerbate the situation?
Post by: Malandro on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: Right on..., posted by Ray on Sep 6, 2005

by lobbing these baseless accusations.   they are only feeding racial animosity and are doing nothing to improve the conditions in NO.   Now that the rescue operation is in full swing, I noticed the race baiters have backed off.


Title: Re: why does the left feel the need to exacerbate the situation?
Post by: doombug on September 07, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to why does the left feel the need to exace..., posted by Malandro on Sep 6, 2005

"why does the left feel the need to exacerbate the situation?"

National elections in a few years.

Gotta get those swing voters pumped up against the other side.



Title: Re: why does the left feel the need to exacerbate the situation?
Post by: OkieMan on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to why does the left feel the need to exace..., posted by Malandro on Sep 6, 2005

Malandro,

Unfortunately, the liberal left has no real plan of their own.  But, they are always taking swipes at the rest of us who want to continue to make this country great; and return our "family values" to the people.  But, make no mistake about it-- their day is coming!!

                          OkieMan



Title: just another opportunity to criticize Bush
Post by: Malandro on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: why does the left feel the need to e..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 6, 2005

meanwhile the Democratic mayor and Governor did absolutely nothing in preparation of the storm.  

the Federal government responds to natural disasters as necessary.   it is the States and local governments who are responsible for emergency planning and preparation.



Title: Re: just another opportunity to criticize Bush
Post by: OkieMan on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to just another opportunity to criticize Bu..., posted by Malandro on Sep 6, 2005

Malandro,

Exactly right.  That is the way I see it.  The mayor of New Orleans is out of his depth, and I suspect the Governor of Louisiana is too.  She almost seems to lose it when she is giving interviews on TV.  I know all of them are having a struggle, but I just don't think they were qualified or prepared to act quickly enough.  However, they certainly don't mind throwing the blame on the federal government, and particularly President Bush.  They should have dealt better with their own areas of responsibilty first, then called in the feds.  But, hindsight is always 20/20.  You will notice now, that the President is already launching an investigation, and so is Congress.  More of our tax dollars at work-- too little too late?  Oh well.

                                 OkieMan

                             OkieMan



Title: Re: Re: just another opportunity to criticize Bush
Post by: david hagar on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: just another opportunity to criticiz..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 6, 2005

I totally agree with you. The mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana did not do their jobs.  If there were coperative executives,  they should be fired. The FEMA  director did not do his job.  He should be fired. We have the 101st airborne.  The troops could have been parachated in within hours to prevent looting. Many people did to be terminated from their jobs due to their performance


Beattledog



Title: blaming Bush is popular and easy
Post by: Malandro on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Re: just another opportunity to criticiz..., posted by OkieMan on Sep 6, 2005

so why not?


Title: Re: blaming Bush is popular and easy
Post by: Fuzzyone on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to blaming Bush is popular and easy, posted by Malandro on Sep 6, 2005

I hate to say it but when he is out west giving speeches to raise money until
Wednesday it is pretty easy to wonder really what was he doing?  I realized there
was a problem Monday afternoon when people of New Orleans were on their
roofs watching the water come nearer and nearer.  Bush is not the only one to
blame the Gov come have did alot more then she did, the mayor he was screwed
and he knew it. Was it against blacks, don't think so but I do think it shows what
the goverment thinks about the lower class... we will get to them sooner or
later..


Title: Re: Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miami Culture
Post by: CelticUrge on September 06, 2005, 04:00:00 AM
... in response to Right on...Hurricane Andrew and the Miam..., posted by Heat on Sep 6, 2005

"Jessie Jackson and "The Reverend" Al Sharpton"

These guys are charlatans and opportunists, at best. I have absolutely no respect for them. They hurt the "black cause" far more than they help, and they are getting rich from the support of the blacks. Open your eyes people.