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Gentlemen,

I do not want to overload us on the Hurricane Katrina ordeal, but it does affect all of us in one way or the other.  So, I am just curious about the refugees and where they are being relocated.  Here in Oklahoma, we already have several thousand. I know Texas has probably the largest amount in the Houston and San Antonio areas.  If you have the time, could some of you other guys across the country comment on what you are aware of (especially in your hometown or state areas)?  I know that our hearts go out to these people, but it is also very interesting from another aspect.  I would bet that many of these same refugees will decide to go back to the New Orleans or Biloxi areas.  However, I will be very curious to find out over the next weeks and months ahead about the folks who decided to just relocate somewhere permanently.  I could be wrong, but I can't think of any other natural disaster in the United States (at least not in modern times), when it would cause thousands of people to just relocate far away from their original homes-- with one exception.  Back in the 30's, many of the Okies (including many of my relatives) relocated to places like California because of the depression, and in Western Oklahoma, the "Dust Bowl" effect.  Crops were wiped out by the massive drought; and that was on top of the terrible depression that had been caused by the stock market crash of 1929.  By the way, when John Steinbeck wrote the "Grapes of Wrath", he really got it wrong when the Okies he wrote about (the Joad family) were supposed to be in the Dust Bowl, but they were lving in Sallisaw (if I remember correctly).  That is in Eastern Oklahoma, and almost into Arkansas.  The Tulsa area(where I live) is not very far from there.  At any rate, Eastern Oklahoma is not anything like that. Even though many of our lakes are man-made, and were not build until much later; we were somewhat dry, but never part of the "Dust Bowl".  That was further west.  But, to get back to my point, that is the only other disaster that I can recall that caused that kind of mass migration from one area to the other.  Tell me what you think.

                                     OkieMan

... in response to Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

It's done... At least for the next 2-3 years...

The NOLA police department furlowed all officers yesterday, giving them 3 months salary and telling them to relocate and find another job...

By the time NOLA is rebuilt, I doubt many of the survivors of Katrina will want to go back... Cajuns & Creoles are a hardy breed, but given the chance to relocate with a fresh start will be enticing...

There's an old joke about NOLA... Unless you make beds, cook, clean or tap dance, it's hard to make a living...

I would also think that serious discussion is being had on the viability of rebuilding all the residential areas of NOLA... Not in a known flood zone... I can see everything south of I-10 being rebuilt... The CBD, Garden District, ship yards, casinos and the French Quarter, but all the residential areas north of I-10 will likely be relocated above sea level...

... in response to Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

"The NOLA police department furlowed all officers yesterday, giving them 3 months salary and telling them to relocate and find another job... "

Well, that's what the media was saying... Aren't we supposed to believe whatever the talking heads say??? That little tidbit can from Fox News...

It isn't so, the NOLA PD is still on the job...

... in response to Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

The Cajuns were leaving another bad situation when they came too New Orleans.Maybe they are not so hard headed as we might think.When the going gets tough the smart split.Well,that could pose a problem for some of them.

Pete

... in response to Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

Wizard,

Thanks for your insight.  Since your profile does not say, could you let us know if you are a native of New Orleans?  You seem to have personal knowledge of that area.  At any rate, thanks for your comments.

                             OkieMan

... in response to Re: Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by OkieMan on Sep 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by wizard]

I lived in NOLA for a number of years, but moved away from there 3 years ago... NOLA is a paradox wrapped in an enigma... The history, culture, food, entertainment and of course the night life all make the entire region a tourist haven... Couple that with abject poverty, poor infrastructure, corrupt governemnt, the worst school system in the country and what do you have, yep, New Orleans...

All of Louisiana marches to the beat of a different drummer... Governed by Napoleonic law, Louisiana and her inhabitants hold tightly to their historic culture while trying to integrate into mainstream America... They don't do a very good job of it... If it weren't for NOLA being a tourist mecca, it would be just another dot on the map...

I am saddened to see what has happened to the region... Not only NOLA, but Gulfport, Mobile, Biloxi and points farther north... The loss of life will likely grow into the thousands... The economic loss to the region will likely cause most people to relocate and attempt to rebuild their lives elsewhere...

Aside from the toll on human life and infrastructure, imagine that this happened to your home town... Every place that you ever went, everything you ever did, every resturant you ever ate at, every place you ever worked, every person you ever knew, just ceased to exist on one fateful Monday morning... Hard to fathom...

... in response to Re: Re: Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

I was about to make my first trip to New Orleans in a month.  The annual IEEE PES T&D (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers -Power Engineering Society - Transmission and Distribution) show was going to be held there this year.  It is the biggest show for our industry every year and this year it was going to held there.  They sent out a notice last Friday that it is postponed until Spring 2006 and they still want to hold it in New Orleans.  What are the odds that the "show will still go on" next Spring?

... in response to Re: Re: Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

Wizard,

Thanks again for sharing more of your story and insight.  I have visited New Orleans a couple of times.  It was never my cup of tea, but I do realize that for many years it has been a srategic city, concerning location and culture.  The ports are very important to our country as well.  I pray that the entire Gulf region will be rebuilt-- but only better.  Kind of like the 6 Million Dollar Man, back in the '70s.  Maybe New Orleans will be the New Bionic City! ha  I don't mean to make light of their problems; but I do hope that area is built back and made safer.

                                OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

My brother in law was a top level guy in a major US corporartion.About 20 years ago they were thinking of building a large facility in New Orleans that would employ many people.They were told they would need to bribe some people to get it approved.They checked in to it,decided they would have too much grief if they didn't,if they did they were commiting personal felonies.So they Passed on New Orleans.
Eddie Debartollo should have done the same a little ways north.Got his ass in a world of trouble and wound up losing the 49 ers over it.
Sounds like Latino land to me.

Pete

... in response to Stick a fork on NOLA... , posted by wizard on Sep 5, 2005

to withstand Mother Nature's Category 5 Hurricane? Seems like Mother Nature went "under" the barrier & eroded the base. My Grandfather used to have his own views on Man's technology, he used to say "whatever man can "make"....Mother Nature can "break"

Let's see what lesson is learned from this tragedy

... in response to Can Man build a levee and/or sea wall......, posted by Hoda on Sep 5, 2005

If they ever get the 28 ft storm surge they speak of it would be hard to ever build adequately for that.Hugely expensive and it STILL might not work.I think our poster here is right.Save some historic areas,relocate the housing,let the sea take back its own.
Confucius say man with finger in dike can't do anything else.

Pete

... in response to Unsinkable ships,unbreachable levies, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

My "Confucius Say" corollary:

Beware of man with splinter in hand...

May have wooden dick!

... in response to Can Man build a levee and/or sea wall......, posted by Hoda on Sep 5, 2005

They mentioned a study conducted a few years ago that suggested that the levees could be improved to withstand CAT. 5 Hurricanes.  The cast was 16 Billion I believe.  It sounds like a lot, but think about how much it will cost to rebuild.

... in response to Re: Can Man build a levee and/or sea wal..., posted by Onephd on Sep 5, 2005


It seems silly to me to build and live anywhere along coastlines that is below sea level.  If New Orleans is rebuilt we could learn much from the Dutch model.

http://metonym.mydd.com/story/2005/9/1/202720/0815

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering

... in response to Re: Re: Can Man build a levee and/or sea..., posted by pablo on Sep 5, 2005

"It seems silly to me to build and live anywhere along coastlines that is below sea level."

I would take that one step further. I think it's foolish to build on any barrier island or beachfront property. Call me jaded. Grew up in south Florida and have been through many hurricanes in FL and other states I just happened to be in at the time of a storm hitting. The human history is full of examples of where we are convinced that we can tame and defeat natural forces and events.

The Dutch have taken this to quite a refined endeavor.

... in response to Re: Re: Can Man build a levee and/or sea..., posted by pablo on Sep 5, 2005

The levees need building to support the oil industry. With 25% of our usage coming from NOLA region we have no choice. Now re building the homes is a different matter hopefully most of these people won't go back. Maybe NO will become more of an oil hub for the Gulf.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Can Man build a levee and/or..., posted by stefang on Sep 5, 2005

Stefang,

I do not claim to be any kind of expert on this subject; but that is basically what I was saying earlier.  The ports are incredibly important, and we must have them up and running at full capacity soon.  But, housing people in that fish bowl is another thing entirely.  I hope the so-called experts have learned some valuable lessons here, so that whatever is done, and in whatever way New Orleans is rebuilt; it will be better than before, and administated in a more professional manner.  That may just wishful thinking on my part, however, I think this country, and that area can indeed learn som valuable and important lessons here.  Also, the old, junky, sub-standard buildings and housing can just be demolished and the area cleaned up; so that whoever rebuilds in those areas will have something to look forward to-- not just more depressing ghettos.  If our country will use this great mass exodus and dispersion right; the former residents of New Orleans that have been evacuated can find new homes in new states.(At least the ones that have not been able to get out of their poverty so far).  But, if we allow them to just remain ignorant and poor, then we will allow that poverty and state of mind to be perpetuated into the next generations.  Now, that would be a hugh mistake in my opinion!
We can bring some good out of this tragedy.  I know that some of the people evacuated to here in Oklahoma have stated that they will probably stay.  Well, then they need to get jobs here, and contribute to our society.  Now, I realize that some already are; but I also realize that many of these people that just stayed until it was too late and were supposedly too poor to leave.  Well, as sad as all that is, now they are out.  Now, they have new opportunities. I saw on the news that there are estimates that everyone of the 48 states on our continent will end up with some of these refugees-- kind of like the Vietnamese boat people in the '70s; except that these people are americans. A great deal of those Vietnamese people became citizens, and  learned english and got better educated.  Some have went on to become professionals like doctors, etc, and lead very productive lives. But, most of these particular americans from the Gulf States are minorities (mostly black) and have been living in igorance and poverty for many generations, and that is just unacceptable.  It's time our government uses this as a great social opportunity for change.  I hope that the many states across our great land will help in that effort.  It needs to be more of a grass roots effort, and not just left to the federal government.  In my mind, that has been one of the root causes of this whole mess.  Those people have come to believe that the government will take care of them, which is socialism at it's worst!  The old "cradle to the grave" philosophy that has permeated Europe for many years!

                             OkieMan

... in response to Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

San Diego has notified the Feds that they are ready to accept refugees immediately, but for some reason the government seems reluctant to lose control of these people just yet.

A chartered plane arrived in San Diego this afternoon with 50 refugees from New Orleans. A local businessman, David Perez, took it upon himself to fly medical supplies and doctors to Louisiana at his own expense. Then he chartered some planes and went around to the shelters and churches in Baton Rouge asking for volunteers to relocate. He got 50 volunteers so far for San Diego and flew them in on a 737 at a cost of $84,000 for the flight. So far, he said he has spent over a quarter-million on storm relief and he is prepared to spend a lot more.

He told the folks that volunteered to come to San Diego, that he would pay for them to relocate back to Louisiana whenever they wanted. A lot of them have already gotten job offers here and others are offering them housing, cars, etc., if they decide to stay. For now, the Red Cross is putting them up in a temporary shelter.

For some reason, FEMA is pissed at this guy for taking matters into his own hands. Huh? Maybe they are afraid that he will make them look bad in comparison? :-)

Ray

... in response to San Diego, posted by Ray on Sep 4, 2005

They pulled out the rescue boats because of a few  gun shots about last Wednesday.
Emergency situations and entrenched stupid beasuracracy don't go well together.Kick some butts and roll some heads that are up some beasuracratic asses.
These guys need ovedrhauled from the top down.MAYBE APPOINT A SUCCESSFULL BUSINESS MAN TO HEAD IT,NOT A LIFE LONG BEUARACRAT???

Pete

... in response to FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

While I have to agree with the group regarding the actions of Fema during the current catastrophe, I lived in the san Fernando Valley of Los Angeles during the time of the Northridge Earthquake. I lost my home and all my possesions at that time and Fema was quite helpful to me and many other people. They were there with 48 hours of the quake and had everything organized, tent citys were put up in local parks to house those people whose homes were destroyed and provided food etc to us.

While one cannot compare the two tragedies in scope as Katrina was far larger of a event, I'm still furious at the lack of aid to the victims of the hurricane. If we can put a man on the mooon, defeat Iraq twice in 12 years, why can't we help our own citizens and provide for them in their time of need? How many people survived the hurricane only to die of lack of food, water or drowning.

It is hard to believe that Fema is the same agency!!! I think that the president needs to make a major change and heads should roll as a result of this debacle.

... in response to Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Dan Las Vegas on Sep 5, 2005

Well said post Dan.  

It is hard to believe that Fema is the same agency!!!

It is not the same agency.  It used to have cabinet level status as an independent agency. Someone had the bright idea (Bush, Rove?) to combine it, along with 17 other agencies, into the Dept. of Homeland Security, where it's importance was downgraded.

... in response to Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Edge on Sep 5, 2005

When they put it into the same bucket with the INS, some of the shit was bound to rub off... :-)

... in response to FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

Here is the appointee http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

Browns prior experience http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857

The only worthwhile government services in NOLA this past week was the US Coast Guard. They saved a lot of people and I have always felt they are our best division.
Coast Guard and Firefighters deserve high recongnition unfortunately they are sometimes the first to see cuts.

... in response to Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by stefang on Sep 5, 2005

From the local paper:  Brown's ticket to FEMA was Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000 campaign manager and an old friend of Brown's in Oklahoma.  Brown told several horse association officials that if Bush were elected, he'd be in line for a good job.

... in response to Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Edge on Sep 5, 2005

Edge,

You are right, but I suspect that there will be more tinkering with how FEMA is handled after the problems they are having. Managing the Dept of Homeland Security is proving to be a monumental task, and will have to be refined.  Having said that, this one Hurricane  situation has more twists and turns then the Mississippi River.  But, maybe, just maybe the local, state and federal government agencies will learn to work together better-- one can hope!!  After all, the federal government is not the only government involved.  But, to listen to the media coverage concerning this, FEMA and Bush must shoulder the bulk of the blame.  I'm sorry, but I just don't see it that way.  When a tragedy like this happens, or better yet, before it happens; the local and state governments need to do a better job of preparing and taking care of their own.  Then, along with that, they coordinate their efforts with the appropriate federal agencies.  The idiot mayor of New Orleans just started pointing fingers at Bush, and wanted to be bailed out!  That is the wrong approach to take, in my opinion.  I think that guy is incompetant, and hopefully the people of New Orleans will elect someone else at the appropriate time.

                              OkieMan

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by OkieMan on Sep 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Edge]

OkieMan - I hear what you are saying and I definitely respect your opinion.

I just cannot bring myself to blame the victim(s) in this trajedy and I consider the Mayor a victim also.  I just do not believe he had the resources available to deal with a natural disaster of this magnitude, nor did the State.  If I was in his shoes I would have probably been more of a thorn in Bush's side if I was actually witnessing the most vulnerable members of my city going under.  I actually think he showed forbearance when Bush actually did arrive.  I have heard that Bush was shielded and not shown the worst areas.  I saw an interview with the Mayor after Bush had met with him.  Bush asked him to "tell me the Truth, tell me exactly how it is."  Bush actually allowed the guy to have his first shower in 5 days aboard his plane.

I am actually sympathetic to Bush in some regards for how this was handled.  I believe that he was strangely detached at first, almost like he was not being fed correct information about the gravity of the situation.  I believe when he actually started to learn how bad it was, that he got angry.  I believe he has surrounded himself with fawning sycophants who told him everything was going just fine, when in reality, it was just the opposite.  He needs to take responsibility for the people who work for him.  I think his heart is in the right place once he realized what was going on but for some days there was a clear vaccum of leadership.

I really hope they examine in detail what went wrong here so we can learn from the mistakes made and more readily plan for the next disaster.  Bush will more than likely come under some criticism and I liked when he admitted that "they could have done a better job".  I hope he will stand up and take his medicine like a man and not try to spin it away.  One aspect of Bush's character that troubles me is his inablility to admit that he can make a mistake.  When you become President you just do not suddenly morph into an omniscient being that makes all the right decisions at the right time.  Maybe he feels the office of President will somehow be diminished.

I would really like to know why the National Guard was not on-site right away to restore order?  There seemed to be plenty of press coverage so I kept wondering, if they can be there, where are the troops to restore order?  I have heard that Bush did not declare a full blown National Emergency right away that would have triggered dispatching the National Guard.  But that seems to me to be something that State would do. But I admit, I am ignorant of the exact protocol that needs to be followed.  I do know the President carries the big stick.  If he were to bring to bear the full brunt of our national emergency resources and not take no for an answer, maybe some of this suffering would have been lessened.

What I do know is I hope to never again see the most vulnerable members of our society, the children, the elderly, 9 month pregnant women, the diebetics, the sick in the hospitals die waiting for help.

It has been my privilege to live 50 years in this great country and I believe we can do a better job responding when a disaster like this strikes.  We are starting to hear the good stories about how these victims are being welcomed in other states to start new lives after losing everything.  Hats off to Texas and other states for the help they are providing and hats off to all the rescue work still going on.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic J..., posted by Edge on Sep 6, 2005

Edge,

Well, there is certainly enough blame to go around.  But, I am referring to the poor preparation and administration from the local and state officials of Louisiana.  For instance, the news cameras have shown that there were many school buses that were just left where they were parked, and are now flooded-- and probably ruined.  Why could the city of New Orleans not use some or all of those buses to help with the evacuation?  They had plenty of advanced notice?  I think they all were thinking that the Hurricane would not be as bad as it was, or that it would somehow miss them.  Of course, as I have said; hindsight is always 20/20.  But, the mayor had no prior political experience, so I think he was way over his head.  Unfortunately, he wants to blame everyone but himself.  Also, I have noticed that the Democratic Governor of Louisiana, Mrs. Blanco is quick to blame the Bush administration for many of the problems.  However, Haley Barbour, the Republican Governor of Mississippi has been far more helpful to his people (based on what I can see); and he is not throwing around the blame.  I just see a different attitude.  But, anyway you see it, this is the greatest natural disaster of our time!

                             OkieMan

... in response to FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Edge]

For 9 years Michael D. Brown was a commissioner for the local Arabian Horse Association here in the Denver area prior to landing a job with the Bush Administration.  His qualifications for running FEMA?  He was a crony of Bush's first campaign director.

I liked where both he and Chertoff actually started BLAMING the Katrina victims because they had not left N.O.  The feeling I had from listening to both of these bozos is that they did not want to be bothered.  Listening between the lines to Chertoff I felt he was saying the job was just too big for him to handle.

I think they should both resign and bring in someone who actually has a passion for the job and wants and considers it their job to rescue and PROTECT ALL Americans.  

A business man at least knows who his customers are and if he is a good business man, he will respond accordingly.

These people in N.O. were not your typical GOP customers.  If this had been Texas that had gotten hit, you would have seen Bush move heaven and earth to protect his base.

... in response to Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Edge on Sep 5, 2005

But you are blaming like a Liberal and Bush is unwilling to accept any blame as a Replublican. We really need to wake up and start hiring independents to run our country. Ross Perot has hit the nail on the head. He predicted a lot of things that have come true.

... in response to San Diego, posted by Ray on Sep 4, 2005

Ray,

That is a very interesting story.  This business man must be very wealthy, as well as generous.  I am sure all of us will hear many more human interest stories as time goes on.  It seems that tragedies like this bring out the best and the worst in people.  God Bless this man of at least trying.  I certainly wish I had more resources so that I could personally help more.  Thanks again for your story.

                             OkieMan

... in response to Re: San Diego, posted by OkieMan on Sep 5, 2005

Okie,

I believe that David Perez is in the oil and gas exploration business.

I guess that automatically makes him the “enemy” in the eyes of the screaming liberals. While Jesse Jackson and other “leaders” of the left are wasting their time blaming this storm on Bush, the Iraq war, tax cuts for the rich, etc, etc, etc…, it’s nice to see one capitalist out there doing something positive. Of course if the liberals had their way, he would not have the wealth to help the unfortunate victims of this disaster because the socialists would have taken away his wealth and redistributed it in their name.

Just what are the liberals doing to help in this disaster? Nothing! They are busy playing the blame game and the race card.

Ray :-)

... in response to Re: Re: San Diego, posted by Ray on Sep 5, 2005

Ray,

So true, so true!

... in response to San Diego, posted by Ray on Sep 4, 2005

FEMA would say THANK-YOU.....

Ray, one of the things that caught my attention & my heart was that a number of the evacuees interviewed wanted to get their hands on a local newspaper in their new location, why you ask?

They wanted to get jobs to help their families. Then Soledad O'Brien asked the dumb-ass question "Sir shouldn't you be concerned housing & food for your family now?". The evacuee replied "Maam (sp) I need a job to give these things to my family"....

Are these talking-heads really that stupid & disconnected?

... in response to Heaven forbid...., posted by Hoda on Sep 5, 2005

My heart goes out to those folks and I hope someone offers them a meaningful job real soon so they can keep their dignity.

Hoda, that reminded me of another T.V. moment in New Orleans. Among all the death and destruction, there was one image that really stands out in my mind.

I can’t remember if it was at the Super Dome or the Convention Center. There were hundreds of people just sitting there on chairs waiting for someone to come and rescue them. Then they showed one very young woman sweeping up the trash in front of the building all alone, while everyone else sat there watching her. Of course the T.V. reporter was subtly mocking her for her futile and wasted effort.

After watching that arrogant, loud-mouthed, incompetent mayor of New Orleans trying to blame everyone but himself for the lack of action, I think they should dump his sorry ass and make that young lady the mayor…

Ray

... in response to Amazing!, posted by Ray on Sep 5, 2005

Ray,

I understand that the mayor of New Orleans has previously had no government experience at all, and used to be some type of cable or media executive.  He should have never been elected in the first place. However, with the city basically in the dumper, New Orleans is in no position to have any kind of elections.  So, the people of New Orleans will be stuck with that clown for a good while longer.  I don't know when his term is up, but I hope that next time, the people of New Orleans will elect someone much more qualified.  I think he was just sitting around, waiting for the State and Federal governments to bail him out.  He obviously is way out of his depth.  However, that Lt. Gen Honore, who I understand is originally from that area, is a stand up guy.  Now, he would do a great job in public office, when he decides to retire. Obviously, I don't know anything about his political beliefs. I am referring to his leadership qualities and training.
       
                                 OkieMan

... in response to Heaven forbid...., posted by Hoda on Sep 5, 2005

they get their jobs because they look good and can read a teleprompter, not for their insight.

you can't expect much profundity from Cantessa Brewer.  

the news media for all their clamoring about civil rights are hypocritical when it comes to the "qualifications" of female news anchors.

... in response to news bunnies, posted by Malandro on Sep 5, 2005

Exactly!

And they keep increasing the amount of makeup on them at an exponential rate as they age, until they just can't hide it anymore. Then they shit-can their wrinkled old asses...

... in response to Re: news bunnies, posted by Ray on Sep 5, 2005

I like the concept of the Batman movie with Jack Nickolson as the Joker. In this movie, the cosmetics have been tainted and the news people show moles, facial hair, etc.

... in response to Heaven forbid...., posted by Hoda on Sep 5, 2005

"Are these talking-heads really that stupid & disconnected?"

Of course they are, that's why they are referred to as "Talking Heads". In all fairness, some seem to be genuine but most are PBD (part brain dead).

Okieman: Do you remember the day of the Oklahoma City bombing? I was in Dallas that morning. Received a call from my brother who knows that I frequently travel those areas for business, informed me of the recent event. I cancelled afternoon appointments, went to OKC, trying to get photos. The authorities had the entire area locked down, letting people out but nobody in, fire, police, emt's, etc. at every freeway ramp. Anyway, while driving around I'm listening to the local news. Connie Chung (from New York City, as I recall) is interviewing the local Fire Chief. He has a deep OK accent and she is showing absolute disregard for the locals, even implying that they are backwards. Not so. BTW, he is also obviously an intelligent guy and becomming visibly annoyed at her. Anyway, she asks him "as I understand it, Oklahoma is in the Bible Belt, is that so?" His answer was quite a classic: "Not only is Oklahoma in the Bible Belt, but Oklahoma City is considered to be The Belt Buckle." The sly Fire Chief is definitely brighter than the reporter.

Connie Chung was basically run out of town and asked not to return by the locals.

... in response to Re: Heaven forbid...., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 5, 2005

NT

... in response to Re: Heaven forbid...., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 5, 2005

Connie Chung was originally on the air in Los Angeles and she is a complete idiot...

... in response to Re: Re: Heaven forbid...., posted by Ray on Sep 5, 2005

Reminds me of a computer consultant joke that one of my friends uses behind the backs of some of his corporate customers. Once looking over the computer and attempting to diagnose the problem, he will say/think "you have an I-D-ten-T error". This spells out IDIOT. I guess Connie Chung comes from that training background as a walking, talking, error message.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Heaven forbid...., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 5, 2005

Or how about the "PEBKAC" error?

Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair :-)

... in response to LOL, posted by Ray on Sep 5, 2005

Nice. I've never heard that one. LOL

... in response to Re: LOL, posted by CelticUrge on Sep 5, 2005

PEBKAC has been around for a while. I remember the error message popping up on my screen while surfing the Web.

Here's a sample:

http://www.glencoerestaurant.com/funnay/pebkac%20error.jpg

... in response to Re: Heaven forbid...., posted by CelticUrge on Sep 5, 2005

Celtic Urge,

I remember the OKC bombing like it was yesterday!  I live in the Tulsa area, and at that time, my then young sons were living for a short time with their mother in OKC.(She and I divorced in 1989).  My sons were in no danger, but as we took a tour of that bombing site (after the authorities finally let us); it was unbelievable!  Also, I certainly remember Connie Chong.  I was very happy that she lost credibility over her stupid, insensitive comments.  I was also very proud of our then governor, Frank Keating.  By Oklahoma going through that terrible ordeal, I feel we earned the respect of people around the world.  By the way, you should see the bombing memorial; it is most impressive.  I am glad that Timothy McVeigh got the old "needle in the arm trick"!
At least he is not around anymore to gloat, and we showed the world what happens to terrorists-- foreign or domestic.

                               OkieMan

... in response to Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

Dallas is going to get between 8,000 to 25,000 (depending on which news report your listen to). They're going to put between 2,000 to 12,000 (again, 'depending') right across the street from me. I'll let you know if they behave themselves properly.

Re: Grapes of Wrath--granted, the Joad family was fictional, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with you that Stienbeck had it wrong. Sallisaw WAS affected by the drought. Maybe they weren't 'dusted under' as badly as Enid or Amarillo, Tx, but it was dry enough that they couldn't make decent crops, because of that many fell behind in their mortgage payments and lost their land through foreclosure, which, if I remember the book rightly, was exactaly why the Joad family was leaving. The really sad (but too true) part of the book is the way the people were treated when they got to California.

... in response to Re: Refugees being relocated, posted by Michael B on Sep 4, 2005

Michael,

What I meant about the Dust Bowl comments is that the Sallisaw area was not even close to what was depicted in the movie.  I have seen some of the old photos of different dusty, arid areas that was part of the former "Dust Bowl".  Yes, those years of long ago were drier across this entire area, but not to the extent that Western Oklahoma, West Texas, etc were affected.  I mention this because unlike you, many of the people on this board, and across America have never been to Oklahoma.  I mean some people on the East or West coast areas think we're still in the "Cowboy and Indians" days. They really would if they saw a rodeo or an Indian Pow-Wow! ha  Certainly, many of them think all of Oklahoma is just one big dry, dusty plain.  As you know, that is far from the truth.  I guess it's something like some of the american men who have never went to any Latin American country.  Or maybe they are expecting to see Pedro sitting somewhere taking a siesta in a setting like something in Mexico in an old Clint Eastwood movie.  As you know  Colombia is much different.  That's all I meant.

                      OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

Coming from that perspective (people being unfamiliar with Oklahoma topography and the people who live there), you've got a good point. Ever seen the old John Wayne movie titled "War of the Wildcatters" (sometimes you see it titled "In Old Oklahoma"...same movie either title)? Anyway, they are drilling for oil around Tulsa. (You know it's Tulsa, because a major part of the plot is that they have to deliver the oil to Tulsa by a certain date or they lose their option). The land in the on location scenes looks more like Monument Valley (complete with desert and canyons) than Glenpool, and the Indians look more like Apachee than Creek and Cherokee.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Refugees being relocated, posted by Michael B on Sep 5, 2005

Michael,

A man after my own heart!  I love the old John Wayne westerns.  Yes, I have seen that flick many times; and you are right.  Hollywood would mostly shoot in California, no matter where the actual location was supposed to be.  The California hills are pretty distinct, and certainly Monument Valley in Arizona and Utah are unique. But, that didn't stop the studios from telling you the story  location was in Texas, Oklahoma, you name it anytown USA. Once in a while, you will see movies shot on location (other than LA or New York).  Even though I am an old movie buff, it seems that today's movies are at least more likely to be shot on location.  As far as the Indians (Native Americans), yes especially in the old days, most of the time, they were not even real Indians, but white stuntmen dressed up in costume.  One of the exceptions was Iron Eyes Cody.  He made several westerns, including a part in Stagecoach; John Wayne's first big movie in 1939.  That one got him out of the cheap little 2 reelers and into the big time.

                             OkieMan

... in response to Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

Read what you have said.  Refugees in this country. Who would have thought that this country  that its own citizens would be refugees.

Beattledog

... in response to Re: Refugees being relocated, posted by david hagar on Sep 4, 2005

Yeah David,

It is very bizarre.

... in response to Re: Re: Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

The media spin again... CNN began labeling these people as refugees sometime on Tuesday... Interesting enough, one survivor being interviewed here in Houston took exception to that label and told a television news crew "No, I'm not a refugee, I'm an American citizen..."

... in response to Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

OkieMan,

We are getting 2000 here in North Carolina.  They are splitting them up between Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro.  Those are the three largest cities in the state.  There are about five Families here where I live.  These people got out way before the Hurricane hit.  They have already enrolled their kids in school here.  They  said on the news that they like North Carolina and probably will not be going back to New Orleans.  

It would be interesting to see how many of these folks actually go back.  I am sure some of them will and others will be terrified with too many bad memories of the horror they went through.  It will take a hell of a long time before there will be any normalcy in New Orleans.  I say at least three to five years.  

Keith

... in response to Re: Refugees being relocated, posted by Keith NC on Sep 4, 2005

Keith,

Thanks for your story.