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Hi guys,

It would appear that the board has now turned much of it's attention back to our main topic (women- and latinas in particular)!  With that in mind, I want to run something by you.  Most of us are in the 30 something to the 50 something crowd.  So, none of us are young, goofy teenage boys.  Also, we all have at least some basic common interests- mainly meeting latinas, dating, getting married, whatever.  So, here we are week after week comparing notes.  Some guys are having great success; a few are even happily married.  But, the biggest majority of us are still searching for "Ms. Right".
In the course of that search, there has been numerous sad stories, mine included.  I believe that most, if not all of us are at least resonably intelligent, well-educated, etc.  So, how is it that latinas, who are not supposed to be overall as well- educated, and sophisticated, and certainly not as well travelled as us--  are beating us right and left?  At this point, I am assuming that the vast majority of us have no intention of scamming the women.  Even the guys who are going to LA strictly for fun and games (sex!),
are not abusing the women involved. Those women are willing participants.  Do you think this situation is as simple as many of us thinking with our "little heads" and not our big heads?  I personally don't think so.  Naturally, we are turned on by these women.  I also realize that I and others have asked these similiar questions before.  But, HOLY COW!  Why is it so difficult?  The normal relationship thing is one issue.  That can take time, and we all want to end up with the right lady.  But, how is it that women from Latin America, or even the Eastern European women some have visited, can scam the crap out of some of us so easily?  I will not even try to recount the multitude of posts that have talked about this scam or that scam.  You would think we are being sheared like sheep!  I realize that some of us are either new or fairly new to the latina scene.  But, no matter where we go in this old world; there seems to be a girl/woman who can tell us a line of PURE BULL, and we believe it, and get taken.  According to the AW, we are the ones that are the DIRTY DOGS!  Well, I must confess I am mystifyied.  There is probably no great answer for my question.  It will probably be  a rhetorical question, but it bears asking anyhow.  I will say that I have personally not lost any serious money due to some latina's sad little story.  But, many of you have told some pretty hair raising stories on this board.  Maybe you can enlighten us on how you got taken to the cleaners? By that, I mean why you didn't see it coming?  Having said all of this, I  know that all latinas are not scammers.  I am not saying that.  But, still there are enough stories just on this board to make you wonder-- WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?

                                  OkieMan

... in response to Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Post, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

[This message has been edited by jediknight]

"So, how is it that latinas, who are not supposed to be overall as well- educated, and sophisticated, and certainly not as well travelled as us-- are beating us right and left?"

part of the problem is that there are many guys that have the same misconceptions about latinas  that you do and if you go down to SA with this attitude you will get burned every time. i think many guys go to colombia thinking they have the smarts,charm and class of james bond and that they'll be meeting simple women with no wordly experience, that they are no match for our experience and so called intelligence....let me inform you that you will find everything in colombia just as you would here, women that are not the sharpest tools in the shed and others that are much more witty, charming, intelligent and educated than anyone on this board. the fact that you may have more disposable income to further your education or travel doesn't make you any smarter or wiser. i've seen many gringos in bogota and barranquilla that have degrees, businesses, are well traveled but are as far away from sophisticated or refined as you can imagine.

the answer to you question is that these girls are not simple girls, they are alot smarter and wiser than you would like to think and if you go to SA with an attitude or belief that you are more educated, travelled, etc than they are and that this puts you at an advantage, you will be in trouble.
JK

... in response to Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Po..., posted by jediknight on Jul 10, 2005

Jedi,

First of all, I do not think I am James Bond.  I also don't believe I am either that nieve or gullible.  But, when I first started on this search, all I knew would haved  filled a thimble; and then I started trying to educated myself via the internet and books in the library.  After locating the obvious websites, and reading them; I knew that there was a lot of "ole crapola" in the claims of the agencies.  However, I did think that the ladies would probably be happy to meet me and other american men. In fact, I am sure they are; some for the right reasons, and others so they can fleece us!  I also realize that all latinas are not scammers; but there certainly does seem to be  many misconceptions on the part of american men about this process.  Some of those misconceptions I have believed, and others not.  But, as I had said, when I wrote this thread; it may all turn out to be somewhat a rhetorical question.  There may not be a big, overwhelming answer, like I might want.  Still, I am amazed that this process if far more complicated than I originally had envisioned.  Having said that, I will continue with my search; work on learning spanish, and hopefully, I will be much wiser along the way.  Thank you for your input.

                               OkieMan

... in response to Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Post, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Its pretty simple really.All of the scammer or disinterested or just mysterious behavior is a red flag screaming we are messing with the wrong woman.There will be none of that with the right woman.Even big issues like language will become easier,you will both be on the same page.
Now the why do we mess with the other types could fill a book.Little head thinking and wishfull thinking and just plain ignoring all the signs are SOME of the reasons.Waiting for a reasonable explanation can be a big one.Expecting them to behave like we think they should.It will never happen.
BUT,if we remember there will be none of this bullshit with the right woman and move on and not even waste any time trying to figure out the WRONG WOMAN its actually pretty simple.As in easy said sometimes hard to do I guess.
Your mission should you choose to accept it is to keep on keeping on and to drop any chica regardless of how attractive at the first sign of BS.Actually even thats not simple enough.Keep looking untill one really jumps out of the crowd as being CRAZY ABOUT YOU.
The right one will not give you ANY of these problems.
So do I have the right one?Yes one could be,she totally qualifies.But I am the issue.Is this what I want?I guess if she had lots of choices she should be dumping me.

Pete

... in response to its actually pretty simple, posted by Pete E on Jul 9, 2005

Great post. Why does a relationship have to be hard work? I think you've hit on something - when you've found the right one, everything falls into place. Even when I could barely speak Spanish and my wife and I were having these crazy conversations on the phone arranging our meeting in Bogota and trip to San Andres, we were still able to communicate and be on the same page. No head games, no guessing about motives, no nada. We rarely have any kind of disagreement or misunderstanding.

... in response to You are SO right, posted by utopiacowboy on Jul 9, 2005

Utopiacowboy,

You are right, but I would have to give much of the credit to your wife; in that it is obvious she was sincere (before she became your wife).  Yes, we all know that it could have gone either way.  Maybe you would not have been attracted to her, and maybe she would not have been attracted to you.  But, the foundation started when both of you went into the deal with honorable intentions.  No scams, no games, etc.  Now, you are living the life that many of the rest of us want.  I know I do.  I just want to find a good lady; the right lady-- and forget all the BS! True, that is easier said than done; but it is only possible when both parties are honest and sincere in the first place!  Sounds simple, but apparantely it is not.

                           OkieMan

P.S. YOU LUCKY DOG! HA

... in response to its actually pretty simple, posted by Pete E on Jul 9, 2005

very good advice. a guy in Bogota once told me that if a latina is not biting on your ear by the second date - she's not that in to you. i think there is some truth to that. i like the part from mission impossible too

... in response to CRAZY ABOUT YOU, posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Well that sounds very good. But most Ukrainians were doing much much more by the second day than biting ears man.

... in response to Re: CRAZY ABOUT YOU, posted by Frank O on Jul 9, 2005

la verdad! vamos amigo!! ya!

... in response to CRAZY ABOUT YOU, posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Well that sounds very good. But most Ukrainians were doing much much by the second day than biting ears man.

... in response to Re: CRAZY ABOUT YOU, posted by Frank O on Jul 9, 2005

that sounds like just the place for you Papi ...you can go there and get your body parts removed for free.......

... in response to its actually pretty simple, posted by Pete E on Jul 9, 2005

Pete,

I agree with what you said.  You are personally acquainted with me and my last situation.  But, yes, I am moving on, and soon I will doing what I need to do to travel again.  However, the main reason why I brought all of this up, is that so many other posters were also discussing their problems in this area.  I was not simply referring to my own.  BTW, I hope you are enjoying your trip. Stay safe.  Someday, I am sure I will meet the right lady.  I know that other men on this board have similar goals.  Best of luck to us all!

                              OkieMan

... in response to Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Post, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

[This message has been edited by papi]

Only a small percentage in Latin America, are serious scammers taking gringos for a lot of money.  Usually it is just for chump change but it is the principal that matters and annoying since you don’t want to waste your valuable time or money.  Others are flakes or babies.  Almost all don’t like conflict and will not tell you their true feeling.  You will get better with experience at this thing.  Also, I have said this before: don’t put all your eggs in one basket.  

Okie, I know some guys here don’t like TLC but I was thinking it might be a worthwhile investment for you.  Hire a really good translator and have her work the room for you.  I would bet money that with 500 candidates attending a party and with a good translator – you will do great.  I speak reasonably good Spanish but would still hire someone to help me work the crowd, take numbers/notes.  Pick up the phone and call Bruce. He is not a bad guy despite what my dear friends Heat and Jake have to say on this matter! I would try TLC again even after attending not so great a tour in Panama last year

Remember, a lot of guys here like Heat have a great deal of experience or are ex-pats and have a lot of time to invest in the project and live in Colombia.  You don't so –blow a little money and make this thing work for you.  I would budget $5000- $1000 grand and call it your LIFE HAPPINESS FUND - to locate, land, marry a latina and set her up here in the US with clothes, English, driving, etc.  Do TLC or try ONE OR TWO GOOD AGENCIES.  

You are a nice guy – don’t over analyze, just have fun and do it.  And if some flake beats you out of $10 or is a no show, move on.  You have a more important mission.  G..d, where was a guy like me when I started this project?  I'd for sure have a few more pesos in my pocket.  I have made so many f...g mistakes!  But I am off to BAQ this week to take another crack at Latin Love

... in response to BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

steveo I can't believe that you would even suggest this !!!!!!!!  you want him to spend $3000 on a hope and a dream ???????? I could sit at Micki dees  in Cali for 2 days and meet more ladies ........ are you on tlc payroll now ????????

... in response to Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Jake on Jul 9, 2005

I wish I was on the payroll!!! I prefer parties over citas. Really, a grand is chump change compared to the pesos I have blown on this project over the years. I dont know where you get $3K. The party is $1K plus expenses which you would incur with other services. Besides, I wanted to see if you were awake today. I knew this post would fire you up buddy! I will take Bruce and his Panama Hat over a lot of other scumbags I have met. Working the malls, discos is OK - I have met some ladies doing that too but the odds are better in a room with 500 motivated chicas. And letter writing - Amigos.com is really not all that its cracked up to me. Maybe other services are better but i just assume get on the plane

... in response to Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!..., posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

I could make a phone call and I am sure he will hire you  , just ask SAm .

... in response to Re: Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!..., posted by Jake on Jul 9, 2005


Jakester, here is my resume:

slightly overweight defunct gringo agency owner living in Miami.  Main passion – hot women.  See if you can get me a job

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER..., posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Call 1 800 need love

... in response to Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Jake on Jul 9, 2005

Jake,

Let's please not go down that road again.  However, have no fear.  I have absolutely no intention of taking a tour with Bruce, or anyone else.  I am not attracted to the "cattle call" approach.  But, I am sure that Papi was just trying to be helpful.  I will be alright.  I just need some time to regroup.  But, again, the reason I wrote this thread was because of the many, many stories from other posters(including you) who have been burned.  I just find it very fascinatting that many of the men(myself included) can be fooled by these girls.  I really never expected to find THE ANSWER!  But, I still think it is worth talking about.  What do you think?

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Okie, there was a women a couple years ago that I was writing to when in the US and spent some time with in Cali.  She was very sexy.  Anyway, when I returned we finally got intimate and afterwards before I got my pants on she was begging me for money - $80K pesos which is not a lot of cash.  I said no but finally relented and then she did not even show up for lunch the next day.  Look, a lot of these girls are poor, desperate and flaky.  Many are of good character but with the good you find the bad.  Just goes with the territory.  But these girls are learning the game especially with all the gringos heading south.  Many places are over-fished and spoiled

... in response to Re: Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!..., posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Papi,

Here is my point.  So, you liked the lady and became intimate with her.  Then she asked for money.  My question is do you think she was just stringing you along for money?  Like some kind of a con or scam?  At that point, it just becomes a form of prostituion.  Now, I am wondering if the girl could sincerely need money.  You have sex with her, but she still really likes you.  Wouldn't you be giving her more money over time (assuming you were still into her)?  She would make more, it would seem.  I certainly realize that there are crooks of all types in the world.  That is just life.  But, this process has gotten more jaded, since I would guess that up to that point, you really thought she liked you, right?  Maybe she was a good roll in the hay, but you also thought she was a nice girl, up to that point? Right?  Had she been, maybe you could have had something special; I don't know.  But, since she did not show up the next day for lunch, you probably felt like a first class chump!  That's the crappy stuff I am talking about.  I know it happens, but I just don't understand how it is so prevelant.  I mean, you are way more experienced at this thing than I am.  I never said I was Mr. Expert!  But, your story is one of many.  It just seems to me that if the girls would play it straight, they would come out better, and so would we.
As you can tell, I am not a deceitful person; and I find it hard to understand others that are.

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

I didn't feel like a chump but my opinion of her changed. Cali is a bigger problem. Full of flakes and they will waste your time. I got her kicked out of the agency for whatever good that did. Cali might have been great 10 years ago but times have changed. Still, I am sure there are still some good ones there for the pickings

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR AN..., posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Papi,

Again, I appreciate your comments.  But, I just want you to know that I am not limiting my search to Cali.  It's just that is the only city I have been in Colombia, so far.
I do not know when and where I will go next, but I am not hung up on Cali; but I am also not ruling it out either.  It's just that I still have to learn as much as I can between now and then, and go for it.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

you are going either to the cleaners AW or burned in latina land ... I have met one person who has not spent a bunch of money down south ........ that was just pure luck ....

... in response to Re: Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!..., posted by Jake on Jul 9, 2005

Jake,

So, basically, your saying it's the lesser of two evils?

That may be true, but it sure does not sound like fun.  I would rather find the right lady, and then get on with my life.  I am already tired of this "merry-go-round"!  I am not one of the guys who wants to be a "professional dater".
Having said that, I certainly am not going back to dating AW.  So, obviously the latina thing is better.  I am just making some observations,based on my own experiences and also hearing from other posters.  This is turning more into a "marathon", not a sprint. To me, the marathon should be the marriage, not the courtship.

                          OkieMan

... in response to BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Papi,

Thank you for your comments.  I brought this subject up not only because of my limited experiences, but also because it seems that many other posters on this board has brought it up.  Many have gotten hurt or scammed far more than I.  But, I do find it interesting that this sort of thing can happen over and over.  As far as TLC, or other tours, I am not interested.  The tour thing never appealed  to me.  I much prefer the one-on-one introductions.  Certainly I have much to learn, and I will continue to do so; starting with learning more spanish.  But, as Jake and  you, as well as others have pointed out, you can speak fluent spanish and still get taken (in certain situations).  Also, as I said, this is probably just a rhetorical question; because there probably is no answer.  Certainly, there are no easy answers.  But, you have to admit, it sure is fascinating how this type of thing can happen over and over again.  Best of luck on your trip to BAQ.  I look forward to your trip report.

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

the cita thing has its plus and minuses. Talk to Dolphin - he spent a week in Colombia with me and sat around an office all day because of continued no shows. Yes, the party thing might be a tad awkward but who gives a f..k. it is a chance to cherrypick from a ton of ladies which you see live and not because you fell in love with a pic. I still do the citas but think the parties have their merits and can be a productive use of time. One time I was really looking forward to meeting a lady at one of the most respected agencies.  I thought her pic was incredibly hot and she was the main reason I chose that agency.  Well, when I met her she must have spent the past year filling up on empanadas since her last photo shoot. She is still on the website - but probably 30 lbs heavier than her pic. Again, i wish i had someone like me to give me advice when i started this project

... in response to Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!..., posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Papi,

Well, for me, the benefit of sharing our posts with each other is to exchange information; because all of us can learn something.  I certainly appreciate the opportunity to learn from some of you who are more experienced.  But, ultimately, we must find our own path.  Sometimes, life can be a wild and strange ride!

                       OkieMan

... in response to Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Howdy Okieman, I am curious if you are not going to go on a tour what is your gameplan?  I ask because to me it is the best way to meet many girls and than pick your favorites for 1 on 1 meetings.  Time is short in Colombia so this seems a good use of time.  I am open to different ideas so perhaps your developing gameplan would work for others as well.  BTW I can not stand the large group party thing either but I just stand on the sidelines and pick who I want to talk to and it is sorta like a one on one thing at that point. I never participate in any sort of introduction or group game when those events occur I fade away for a time.  
Buen suerte!
Fathertime

... in response to Re: Re: BRUCE/TLC IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!!!..., posted by fathertime on Jul 9, 2005

Fathertime,

Since I just got back from Cali on June 2, I do not yet have a "game plan" for the next trip.  However, I am working on that.  It will take me a while to re-evaluate everything and learn from my mistakes.  The one thing I know for sure is that I want to learn more spanish.  But, that certainly takes some time.  The rest-- well, I just don't know yet.  Good luck on your search.

                             OkieMan

... in response to Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Post, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Howdy Okieman,
Men are not scammed generally because of a lack of brainpower although sometimes that along with poor judgement is a factor.  Many men want to believe that this is an oasis of youth and that we actually belong with these beautiful 20 year olds despite the fact that we maybe graying, balding, overweight, and generally crotchety.  In the U.S. the odds of a normal guy (NOT wealthy or model material) of age 45 linking up with a young beautiful babe of 22 is about one in 10,000 maybe more (I am guessing).  So in Colombia the odds are much better but if mens expectations are out of whack (50 year old going for 19 yr old) I believe you are likely to be scammed.  Fathertime and mother nature have changed our bodies in many annoying ways but have left our brain in much better condition than when we were 18 or 20. In my opinion we may have a mental overconfidence that our general physical appearance can not back up hence we are open to be scammed by the Colombian babes who may find us physically a little grotesque.  Sadly the calender has taken some of us out of the game for some of the girls but there are plenty that are within a reasonable age range that we have a real shot at.  

    Some of the Colombian girls motivation may be entirely different than ours. While we are conteplating marrying a girl they may just be hoping for a few free meals and and a gift or two.  With motivations so different we are ripe for the picking and never have any real chance with a percentage of the girls pictured on the websites. Another large factor is that many our "Spanish Challenged" so we can't decipher the situation as easily.  
I do not mind taking the chance because even if the odds seem long there the payout appears to be worth the risk.
Buen Suerte!
Fathertime

... in response to Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Po..., posted by fathertime on Jul 9, 2005

you are a wealth of good advice

... in response to Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Lon..., posted by papi on Jul 9, 2005

Thanks Papi, just when I was feeling like a bloated gasbag you go and swell my head!
Most of thoughts come from observation and listening to others, including the vets on this site, since I am veteran of only 2 of these trips thus far.  
Buen suerte!
Fathertime

... in response to Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Po..., posted by fathertime on Jul 9, 2005

Fathertime,

Very good insight.  I feel bascially the same way.  However, I am personally not chasing after the 21 year olds with silicone boobs.  I am more interested in the 30-35 year olds.  I also realize that I have only been to Colombia twice.   But, there are guys on this board that have shared their stories, and they have been to LA countries many times for many years.  Now, some of them probably don't want to get married anyhow.  They are just looking for having some fun.  Having said that, there would seem to be many men that for one reason or other can't outsmarta so-called "simple little latina".  Maybe these girls aren't as simple as we were led to believe???
I don't know.  Either way, I am not giving up, but I am making some observations today.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Lon..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

If they're busy trying to outsmart you and you're busy trying to outsmart them, what kind of life together would that lead to? I don't want a marriage where my wife and I are busy trying to outsmart each other. WTF? We have a marriage of cooperation and sharing - where neither one of us needs to or wants to outsmart the other.

... in response to You don't need to outsmart them, posted by utopiacowboy on Jul 9, 2005

Utopiacowboy,

My point exactly!  I certainly don't want to go through that crap. I want what you apparantely have.  Simple, but wonderful.  A loving wife, a companion, and lover.  A lady to share my dreams and my life.  Again, I say it sounds simple, but if someone is purposefully telling you something untrue; if that person does not have honorable intentions, then nothing will work.  I am not saying the latina I was with was that deceitful.  But, if you believe what some of the other posters on this board have gone through, it makes you wonder?  Untimately, all of us have to live our own lives; but I am hoping that we, on this board, can be a little help to each other. I feel that I have learned a great deal since I have been posting here.  Hopefully, someday, I will find the right lady, and "ride off into the sunset".

                               OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Lon..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

OKIEMAN!
I would think 30 to 35 is pretty reasonable and attainable.  I saw on my Ukraine trip a 50 year old go for an early 30's gal and he succeeded (He proposed and she accepted) of course you never know how it turned out.  I have seen a photo of you and you are a runway model in comparision so I think you got a good shot.  
These "Simple Little Latinas" have been hit since age 13 so they are sophisticated in that department. I think they may be well be simple in many other respects.
See ya
Fathertime

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed?..., posted by fathertime on Jul 9, 2005

Fathertime,

You have seen a photo of me?  How did you do that?  At any rate, thanks for the nice comments. Frankly, I have been told that by a number of latinas; but then again one of them is not home in bed with me yet either! Maybe some day.

                            OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scam..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Okieman!
I am assuming that was you with the initials kp. For your privacy email me and I can give you more info.   The latinas have said to you that you were a runway model!  I hope you were not as scantily clad as those models!! When swimming with the latinas I normally where the longer sort of bathing suit so not to be mistaken as a runway model or well-hung homosexual:.)
seeya
Fathertime

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be ..., posted by fathertime on Jul 9, 2005

No,

Not that I looked like a runway model! ha  I just meant that many of them were sweet and complimentary about the fact that they thought I was handsome.  Naturally, I was not going to correct them. ha ha   Besides, I was too busy checking them out too. ha

                         OkieMan

... in response to Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Post, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Okie

   I have to laugh sometimes... but look at it this way. Men up here can't find
what they want. A A.W. will clean your bank account out and everything else, she
can included future earnings she will even be more happy. A man will fight and
scream for years in divorce court to keep every last cent. Men go to Colombia
and meet a beautiful woman what do they do???? Ask her to marry them on the
first or second date.... take her to the mall and buy her anything they want....
put up with her being less then trueful... Never meet the family... half the time
they don't even know if she has kids or not.... Now I am not making this
statement to include all of us but there is alot of guys here that are not the
brightess bulbs in the lot. I met some guys going to a TLC party last June and I
will tell you I could see at least half of them were going to get their asses
handed to them before they left. At least half of them were scared to talk to
anyone standing by them selfs looking around like a deer in headlights..

  Some of these guys need to start using their coconut for more then knocking
on doors with. If you get scammed its your own fault no one else don't blame
the agency don't blame your mom, just look in the mirror and say "next time I
won't be so stupid". I got scammed but I was alot smarter next time.

... in response to Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Po..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jul 9, 2005

Fuzzyone,

Very insightful post.  I believe you also had a sad tale concerning a lady from Peru?  I don't remember the details, but it is obvious to me that you know more than I do about this latina thing; and yet something unfortunate happened to you.  This is the sort of thing that I was talking about.  It can happen to any of us.  However, I am not as gullible as the men you mentioned that you saw on the TLC tours.  I have not even proposed to a latina yet.  In May, I was close, but I wanted to take one more trip to see her; and I was very curious to know what would happen when I came home.  Well, that is when my eyes were opened, and the poop hit the fan!  So, live and learn-- certainly.  I guess these are the lessons of life.  But, it certainly seems that life has gotten much more complicated than when my parents or grandparents were getting married, raising kids, etc.  I am not saying that they had it easy; because they did not.  But, let's face it.  With the 50% divorce rate we have in this country, everything about relationships is way more complicated than they were just one generation ago.  Too bad!

                            OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Lon..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Actually I screwed up I let something else do the talking and did not do what I
should have. Sometimes Pride can get in the way and stop you from doing what
you should. I saw alot of signs that was screaming to me to dump the girl but I
thought what would the guys at work say... what would my parents say?

  I read alot on this board telling me what to do but I screwed big time because I
did not listen. ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT GIRL IS NOT THE ONLY FISH IN THE SEA
THERE ARE ALOT AND ONE OR TWO OR EVEN MORE TRIPS TO COLOMBIA ARE
NOT A WASTE IF YOU LEARNED SOMETHING AND DID NOT LOSE YOUR ASS!!!!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed?..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jul 9, 2005

Fuzzyone,

Okay, you said you didn't listen to your "little voice", or read the red flags.  Just as an object lesson to help me and others; what were the red flags?  In your mind, was she being dishonest, or was it simply a case of not being compatible?  I can see where there would be many cases of two people not being compatible enough.  But, if one of the two is not being open and honest; then naturally it will never work.  Read Utopiacowboy's posts today.  He seems to be one of the truly lucky ones.  He not only met the lady, and married her.  But, guess what?  She actually loves the guy!  She actually told him the truth, and now they are living a happy fulfilled life.  I can tell you that is what I want.  No games, no lies.  Just honesty.  If I meet a lady that I don't go for, I am not going to string her along. Maybe some of these girls are just desparate enough to do this kind of stuff.  But, either way, it's a crappy deal.  Naturally, I would not condone it if a guy treats a latina like crap either.  It's a two way street.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Post, posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

It is too bad that you "were sheared like sheep" by one of those uneducated women.  If you had been properly educated in SPANISH, you may not have been such a dumbass, and may have figured out what was going on sooner.  It seems you want to blame the women for your lack of social abilities, communication  and character judgement.  The women you are meeting are well educated in the Colombian means of self-preservation.  You have now been schooled in the real world of Colombia, deal with it by learning spanish, growing some balls, and going back to try again.

... in response to Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Long Po..., posted by A1A on Jul 9, 2005

A1A,

First of all, I only brought this up, because there have been so many other men who have told their story.  #2)  I was not scammed, as far as money or a green card goes.  But, I must admit that I am mystified by the way many of these women can manipulate the situation against a good many men.  If you choose not to discuss this then fine, but don't tell me I need a "set of balls".  I will not participate into this name calling game.  As far as the spanish speaking part, I have freely admitted that I do not currently speak spanish.  There are also several other men in the same boat.  We all must start this journey at where we are, and learn from there.   Again, my intention in writing this thread was simply to say some things that I have observed and let others add to that.  If none of you want to discuss it, then let it die!  As I said, I have not been scammed.  I personally have not had a woman tell me she loves me, come to the States on a K-1 or K-3 and then leave in a matter of days or weeks.  But, there certainly has been other men who have told similar stories.  I was simply observing that I find it mind blowing that this type of thing is so prevelant.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Why we (Men) Can Be Scammed? Lon..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

[This message has been edited by caslug]

wrong title

... in response to Re: Felicity Grabiel,book on gringos &am..., posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

Caslug,

Thanks for your comments.  I agree with you to a point.  I used translators some times, other times not.  I also like to make the girl laugh, put her at ease, etc.  The dancing thing, etc, all good advice.  That is what I have been doing. I will just have to continue my search.  So, how is your search going?  What level would you say your spanish is right now?  I hope to take some lessons this fall.  Take care.

                       OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Felicity Grabiel,book on gringos..., posted by OkieMan on Jul 9, 2005

Okie,  

When i visit Cali for the first time last june, my spanish was limited to 5 WEEKS of listening to Pimsleur, only got thru the first 4 CD(out of 30), obviously beyond introducing myself and asking for a beer.  I had to use the dictionary and phrase book.  When i was on dates, it all carry a notepad, i would right word-for-word translation from english-to-spanish for the girl, then have her right it in spanish.  Also, what i did with a few i like more was ask to go to the intnernet cafe to use the tranlsation programs.  LOL!  It was a great tactical move, because a) it show the girl you were interest and b) sitting in the those booth you have to sit VERY close, sometimes using the SAME chair.  Broke the physical contact barrier early in the game.

I notice that the girls that were into me, asked me as much as i asked them AND would grab my dictionary to try to find the english word.  If they did stuff like that, I KNEW they like me enough for me to pursue further if i wanted.  USE your LACK of SPANISH to your advantage.  GET them involve in helping you learn and practice, it's like a journey together.  Most chicas like when guys ask questions abuot them or ask for help.  Pretend that you are the student they are the teacher(i've alway had student teacher fantasty anway! LOL!).  Make sure you thank LOTS of time  for being kind(dulce) and patience with you in answering your questions, etc.,  THey really like it when YOU think they are important and helpful(doesn't everyone?)..  GOES a LONG way to show that you're not some ugly american that know-it-all.

AND one great thing about lack of spanish, is it's a perfect cover when you want to avoid answer certain questions.  LOL! I just say "que? no entiendo palabra"..given them the SAME look i give when i dont REALLY understand something.  LOL!

... in response to Re:  , posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

I still use that stunt sometimes when I don't want to answer one of my wife's questions. She'll look at me with a look like "I know you understand the question!". Sometimes she'll be persistent and I have to fess up - other times she'll drop it. Of course there are a few times when I really don't understand the question. You're right - if they are into you they will love helping you learn Spanish. I don't know why any guy would WANT to speak perfect Spanish - you get so much further the other way.

... in response to Re:  , posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

Howdy Caslug,
I would say my spanish is advanced-beginner but I think
your theory on translation programs was right on in my situation as well.  The gals that were very interested had a lot of fun with this aspect of the date as we typed back and forth.  The gal who was not interested did not want to go through the hassle of sitting and talking via translator on computer.

... in response to Re:  , posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

Well, I did not go into a internet cafe with a girl, but I did many of the other things you mentioned.  At the time, I thought the girl was really into me.  I guess I still have much to learn in that area. Frankly, I am tired of guessing.  I just want a special lady that will follow through with a relationship, instead of go cold after I come home.  So, I guess it will be better luck next time.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Felicity Grabiel,book on gringos &am..., posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

nt

... in response to Re: Felicity Grabiel,book on gringos &am..., posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

[This message has been edited by caslug]

Okie,

What i found VERY interesting is.. YOUR personality SHINES thru irregardless of your spanish abilities(I've NEVER USED an INTERPETER on ANY date and my spanish is VERY WEAK). EVEN when i knew ONLY tourist spanish from guide books, I was STILL able to make them laugh and show them a good time. WHEN the girls likes you SHE makes an EFFORT to be VERY patience with you regarding your spanish. HOWEVER, if she doesn't like you FOR ANY REASON(just like US WOMEN), That's where spanish is a HANDICAP. One thing i've notice is your "hit" rate in the US is DIRECTLY porportional to your "hit" rate in foreign country. The only difference is as a AMERICAN(1st world) in a 3rd, WE get a 3 to 5 times multiplier. SO if you're hitting 20% in the US, you'll be hitting 60-90% in COL, BUT if you're batting 1% in the US, you're only hitting 3-5%.

It is VERY EASY to GET/HAVE relationship IF YOU WANT. Previous poster has allude to the some general "tactics" that works.

a) Have some "balls"-not an insult, it really means HAVE confident in YOUR ABILITIES AND CHARM(or WALLET SIZE LOL!), YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FEEL(even in US) that there's OTHER choices out there. I'm VERY HONEST with my dates, if they asked me what did today or yesterday(when i'm in there city), I tell them, "i went out with other friend(otros amgigas). Now of course, many times the "other" friend is just that friends, no more. BUT my date doesn't know that. She now know if she bores me, i got other option, JUST like I KNOW if I BORE HER, she got other option. Obviously you ONLY do this at the first couple of dates.

b) SHOW them a good time(CRITICAL), if you can't make them laugh and show them your fun to be with your IN. again, LANGAUGE plays a MINIMAL ROLE in this(it helps but not critical). I find that while talking dinner is GOOD, it helps establish your manners and conversational abilities to the girl. I use both Casinos and Clubbing to "grease" the wheels of chemistry. If you're a card player, you'll know what i mean, if not then use dancing/clubbing. YOU DONT have to be GOOD dancer, THEY'RE NOT EXPECTING you to be. DANCING IS CRITICAL BECAUSE it allows PHYSICAL contact, holding hands, dancing close, etc., IF you're holding your own at dinner, then dancing will be the spark that ignite the chemistry.

PLUS, UNLESS you're WILLING to fly down there every 2 or 3 months, there's no point in getting a relationship. One poster on another board said that his GF(now wife) gets ANTSY after 2-3 months UNLESS she see him in person. Makes sense, guess for latinas 2-3 month withOUT "physical" contact is the average wait time they'll give you UNLESS you're married of course.

... in response to Re:  (wrong title in above thread), posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

Okie,

What i found VERY interesting is.. YOUR personality SHINES thru irregardless of your spanish abilities(I've NEVER USED an INTERPETER on ANY date and my spanish is VERY WEAK). EVEN when i knew ONLY tourist spanish from guide books, I was STILL able to make them laugh and show them a good time. WHEN the girls likes you SHE makes an EFFORT to be VERY patience with you regarding your spanish. HOWEVER, if she doesn't like you FOR ANY REASON(just like US WOMEN), That's where spanish is a HANDICAP. One thing i've notice is your "hit" rate in the US is DIRECTLY porportional to your "hit" rate in foreign country. The only difference is as a AMERICAN(1st world) in a 3rd, WE get a 3 to 5 times multiplier. SO if you're hitting 20% in the US, you'll be hitting 60-90% in COL, BUT if you're batting 1% in the US, you're only hitting 3-5%.

It is VERY EASY to GET/HAVE relationship IF YOU WANT. Previous poster has allude to the some general "tactics" that works.

a) Have some "balls"-not an insult, it really means HAVE confident in YOUR ABILITIES AND CHARM(or WALLET SIZE LOL!), YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FEEL(even in US) that there's OTHER choices out there. I'm VERY HONEST with my dates, if they asked me what did today or yesterday(when i'm in there city), I tell them, "i went out with other friend(otros amgigas). Now of course, many times the "other" friend is just that friends, no more. BUT my date doesn't know that. She now know if she bores me, i got other option, JUST like I KNOW if I BORE HER, she got other option. Obviously you ONLY do this at the first couple of dates.

b) SHOW them a good time(CRITICAL), if you can't make them laugh and show them your fun to be with your IN. again, LANGAUGE plays a MINIMAL ROLE in this(it helps but not critical). I find that while talking dinner is GOOD, it helps establish your manners and conversational abilities to the girl. I use both Casinos and Clubbing to "grease" the wheels of chemistry. If you're a card player, you'll know what i mean, if not then use dancing/clubbing. YOU DONT have to be GOOD dancer, THEY'RE NOT EXPECTING you to be. DANCING IS CRITICAL BECAUSE it allows PHYSICAL contact, holding hands, dancing close, etc., IF you're holding your own at dinner, then dancing will be the spark that ignite the chemistry.

PLUS, UNLESS you're WILLING to fly down there every 2 or 3 months, there's no point in getting a relationship. One poster on another board said that his GF(now wife) gets ANTSY after 2-3 months UNLESS she see him in person. Makes sense, guess for latinas 2-3 month withOUT "physical" contact is the average wait time they'll give you UNLESS you're married of course.

... in response to Re: Re:  , posted by caslug on Jul 9, 2005

I married my wife in late September, 2003. While we were waiting for her visa, I went back in November, 2003 and again in January, 2004. Finally I went back again in March, 2004 and brought her back with me. I probably didn't have to go back but I wanted her to know it was important to me to see her every couple of months. Of course we were communicating on the web cam every night but I agree with you, they like to see you in person.