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While living in Cali Colombia for the past two years I became exposed to hundreds of gringos.  I speak Spanish so I was able to see two sides to this story.  The guys and the girls.

Almost all decent, hardworking, trusting guys.  Guys so beat up by materialistic, self centered American women that the came to a war zone to find a women who would love them.  Really love them.

They had their faults.  But on the whole the were decent people.
Many were in need of a grooming class, teeth cleaning and maybe a spot on "Queer eye for the straight guy".  If you get my drift.

As I made friends with them I saw a pattern emerge.   The pattern was a unspoken/spoken pact between the agency owners and the girls who are members of the agencies.  Many of them members of several agency's.  To the benefit of both.

First the Bad girls.

There is a true core of hardened green card sharks.  They are most often very hot looking 20 something women.  They dress very sexy and are fantastic actresses.  The best ones even learn a little  English to help them along.

The will do anything to hook a gringo.

They will sleep with him.  Spoil him.  Introduce him to their family.
Use their children to hook him  Whatever it takes.  They and their family will use whatever means necessary to get her to the U.S.A.
They are survivors.  Many are nothing more than hookers masquerading as real women.  

They almost always have a relative in the U.S.A.
Their support group.  More of an underground railroad really.  And it is waiting to assist them.  

They know the immigration law better than some attorneys.  They know that if they call 911 and report abuse they will be taken in by womens shelters and supported.  They will get money and legal advise off the dime of the taxpayer.  And it stops the immigration clock.

They will wait the two or three years, whatever is necessary to get resident status so as not to be deported.  The whole time giving him sex, cleaning, cooking and acting like a normal loving wife.
Sometimes cheating and sometimes not.  They are very patient.
Waiting for the clock to tick.

Their boyfriend or X husband may be in on the scam.  The X husband may give permission for their child to leave if he is paid.  Or she may agree to bring him to the U.S. when she has resident status.

They have heard the stories we tell about the green card sharks.
Some are so smart they now will never ask you to buy them anything.
They know that that is one of our red flags.

They read this board.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  They are getting smarter and better at what they do.  

Many have had fake boobs and butt jobs.  Some have worked in Italy, Japan Europe and Panama as hookers.  They may have gotten close to getting the green card but got busted when the guy wised up.

Thus the fake boobs and butt. Bought by some dumb gringo.  the Studio F clothes and sometimes even a car.  The are real pros who know their beauty clock is ticking.  So they want out.  And they don't care who gets hurt.

These women are used by the agency as bait.  Some are paid just to show. The are not even sharks. They get a "emergency" phone call and have to leave.  And the agency owner or secretary will point the Gringo to the next hot looking ringer. Of course he pays more or extends his stay.  thereby earn more money for the agency more money.
Sometimes the secretary will get kick back of money or something of value for hooking up the next mark.  These girls will often work as translators.

The really decent girls.....

They taint the really decent, hard working women who are not on the front of the agency website.  The ones who really want a decent husband.  Most often they are not the hot looking girls or ringers you will see on the front of the agency website.

I'm not going to go into these girls but they do exist.  

They are what we all are looking for.  They are most often not twenty years old and may have a kid or two.  Sometimes better educated.  sometimes not.  there is no rhyme or reason to them.

But they do exist.  They are what we are looking for.

They are the reason we head south to Colombia.

They blow away the Gringa.  They will never leave you if you treat them right.  They are feminine,sweet and know how to treat a man.  They think sex is not just a duty but a pleasure.  And they give it with gusto.  They are uninhibited and tender.

They will die for you.  And they are a gift to be treasured.

But here is the hard part.

Many are not in agencies.  And the ones that are are past up by most of the gringos.  Because the gringos fall into they agency trap of the hot looking ringer.  

They come in all colors.  Some of the best are average looking black girls.  Why?  Because they often get overlooked.

I must have met fifty black girls who would have made great wives.
But both the black Gringo and the white gringo could not resist the hotty/ringer girls.  

It is up to you to find them.  Good luck..you will need it.

It's very easy to get caught in the trap of the hot Colombiana.

How do I know.  Well I wasted a year with one.

I am as guilty as anyone who has engaged in this process.

That's how I know.

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

Hi Heat!  I have been reading your posts for several weeks now and feel that I am beginning to know you. These posts are negative with no theme and ramble on and on oftentimes using crude language more common to the lower classes.  

This post was different as it seemed organized with no cursing and the subject matter was dear to my heart. Like you I hate to see guys fail and I will always do all I can to help them right the situation. Now you spoil the entire post by again blaming the agencies for all the bad that happens.
    You admit that you have no need to use an agency (by the way-thanks )  and in the next breath admit that you to have had a failure in the past.  A previous poster told us how he met a beautiful lady at the mall and brought her to the US and after 12 days she left him.  Are you gettin the picture Heat ???  or do you still think an agency was behind these 2 failures ?
   This process can be simple and fun if you have a good plan. Most of my cliets come to Bogota and make 1 to 4 trips and then marry and live happily thereafter.  Most choose college educated ladies from age 25 to 50 who also happen to be beautiful and kind.  
   Now you are meeting guys in Cali (I assume at the shopping malls)  where they have come to pick up and meet local ladies.  Most of these guys are trying to do this with a very limited budget and unrealistic expectations.  Some of these guys have bought a few names from an agency for $25 or $50 and they expect to find a good woman.  What kind of women would consent to someone selling her name to anyone with $10.  Have you ever asked yourself that question Heat.  Now when they fail you want to blame an agency ?  What about the middle aged guy who is twice the age of the lady, isn't he accountable for his own actions ?  You sound like a liberal - taking the position that no one is responsible for their own actions.
    Your negative posts are damaging to our industry and give us an undeserved bad name. I really hate it when you act as a spokesman for this board - I assume most readers ignore your posts as hogwash but its still damage.  Remember there are thousands of men traveling to Colombia every year and finding the love of their life here and we are going to make it easier for newbies to succeed not harder.  

Jim@latinlifemates.com

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by BogotaJim on Jun 21, 2005

I think it is a very good post. I think it helps open some of these guys eyes.
When I was in Barranquilla I saw alot of things that just made me wonder. I flew
into Barranquilla with about six or seven guys who were attending the TLC party
last year. All I have to say is the owner had his work cut out for him. I overhead
one guy telling the rest of them he had attending several of these parties...
makes me wonder , has not found a girl yet? I got my ass handed to me in Peru
6 years ago... believe me I made sure not to run into the same problem again.

... in response to Re: Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia........, posted by Fuzzyone on Jun 21, 2005

Thanks Fuzzy,  I hope some guys really do get an idea what's up in this process.

Regards

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by BogotaJim on Jun 21, 2005

You never responded to my post.  I wonder you are man enough to apologize.

I never once said anything negative about you.  Never once did I get personal with YOU.  But you started with personal shots at me.

About my "fat government paycheck"  Well Amigo.  I got my ass shot at to earn that retirement.

answer my posts and apologize.  Then we talk.

The U.S.Marines have a saying.

"No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy"

I live by that saying.

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

A realistic report.  I would add that even for the decent girls their primary motivation is to move their family to the United States.

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 21, 2005

I would agree.

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 21, 2005

I have been involved in many marriages over the past 15 years and have yet to see even one lady who wanted to bring her parents to the US.  Sisters and brothers yes but for whatever reasons the parents are happy where they are at.

... in response to Re: Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia........, posted by BogotaJim on Jun 21, 2005

While Bruce has been in the US helping American men finding a good mate in Colombia I assume you were here drawing a big, fat government check and contributing nothing to help others and in the process developing a negative attitude about everything. """

Jim,

Perhaps you should check out picture picturetrail.com

member name: pachangero

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=6717520&uid=3280813

The cute little brown skinned girl in the first photo is my daughter that I adopted from Guatemala. She was living on a mountain top in a remote area. There was no electricity or running water and almost no food.

After she was orphaned my Wife and I adopted her and brought her to the U.S. At age 14 months.

She is currently having Father's day with me. She is now a loving normal child with a bright future. My other biological child and her are closer than most sisters.

So while agencies use the donation of their members to give them self legitimacy some of us have tried to make a small difference in the world through direct action. I am not the only one by any means.

And yes I used my fat government check to pay the thirty thousand dollars that it costs to do a foreign adoption.

She would tell you that she is proud of her fathers service to his country. And she know the sacrifices he made to get to the point of retirement.

She would also say she is very proud to be an American. And that she recognizes the price Veterans and Police officers for their retirement. The price they sometimes pay in blood.

And she might tell you that the reason that America has the freedom that the Constitution gives us is because some men have the guts to pick up a gun and defend this great county.

And she would tell you she is proud that her father is one of those chosen few.

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

Nice post, Heat. Especially about the nice girls.  My wife was one of the
Russian "Smokin'hotkovas" you'd see in some of the Russian sites. But back
then ('92) it was strictly black and white catalogs, snail mail and phone calls
(yep, I speak some Russian, too). She had no intention of being anybody's
nice little wife, though we did stay married for 7 years, mostly because of her
daughter (who I adpoted and is now 18). Well, ok, the sex was good too. And
I suppose that the sex with the other guys (who she charged) wasn't too bad
either.  I met so many good, nice, educated girls in Russia that lived with their
parents at 28 and made, maybe $75 dollars a month or so. Not many
prospects for husbands and most are too proud for agencies or socials.
Mostly the same in Columbia. Live and learn.

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by AnzoNevis on Jun 21, 2005

Thanks,  We all can learn from one another.

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

Very informative post.  I have never used an agency but they do seem designed to attract desperate parties on both sides.

I am planning to move to S.A. in about five months.  Do you think the likelihood of success is much higher if you avoid the agencies and make a relationship with a Latina in the normal way, i.e. meeting through friends etc., and if you speak decent Spanish (I do not yet speak Spanish but am starting to learn)?  Thanks.

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

maybe you should post about the idiots who get engaged within a week of knowing the girl. their are plenty of those guys going down there. what gets me, they would never get engaged to a gilr who they met here within a week, but somehow, as soon as they cross the border, they lose all common sence, simply amazing

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by mudd on Jun 20, 2005

What id you think about mu "idiots"?

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by mudd on Jun 20, 2005

mudd.. I have seen them get engaged after one night at a TLC party .... now who is more crazy ...the gringo or latina ??????????

... in response to Re: Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia........, posted by Jake on Jun 20, 2005

well, the latina probably has a agenda, find some stupid gringo, get him whipped and get him to get her  out of colombia. the gringo is crazy, but the latina is way ahead of the lusting gringo. two heads arent always better than one :-)

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

There are sites for Russian scammers/visa-hunters.  Are there such lists of women from other parts of the world?  Perhaps you all could start one and invite other men who were scammed to submit photos and information?

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by Felinessa on Jun 20, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]

Is a latina who accepts large gifts from a foreigner with no intention of having a relationship with him a scammer?  Maybe or maybe not.  She might just be dating a lot of generous guys until her prince charming comes along.  In this case I wouldn't call her a scammer but rather an opportunist.  But the guy who bought her a guchi handbag and got nothing in return other than a peck on the cheek, might feel differently.

The problem with a list of scammers is that I don't think there's a clear consensus on what one is except in more extreme cases.  I've heard stories of supposed scams that in my eyes weren't scams at all.  The jilted boyfriend may very well not be objective.  We only hear one side of the story typically and it's hard to differentiate fact from fiction or to know when revenge might be involved.  I think if the alleged scammer was an agency member, then the agency would be the most objective judge of whether a scam was involved.  But agencies are not perfect either and while I would hope they would get rid of their known bad apples, I wouldn't count on it.

In the end, you need to really know the person you are involved with.  No translator, agency or scam list can do this for you....

... in response to Scammer list, posted by Cali James on Jun 21, 2005

Very fair.  I was thinking more along the lines of internet scams - guy sends money for visa and plane tickets, and then the girl disappears.  That's maybe a little more easily established.  It also sounds like with "scamming" Latinas it's a bit different - less oriented towards making a quick buck and more focused towards actually making it to the US, where they can conveniently disappear if they have family (and they are more likely to have family than Russians).

... in response to Re: Scammer list, posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005

n/t

... in response to You are first on the list.  N/T, posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005

N/T

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

this is the reality of Colombia . I know the other countries in SA are not far behind Colombia .... Good post Heat .... I think you and I should take Bruce to Burger King .. for a whopper or 2 .

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by Jake on Jun 20, 2005

I would say Peru is waaaay behind Colombia in that respect.

Just my experience.

... in response to Re: Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia........, posted by Red Clay on Jun 21, 2005

I agree 100 percent.

TE AMO PERU!!!!!

jim

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by Jake on Jun 20, 2005

BK?  Naw......

That boy like the buffet line.  All you can eat.
And by the time he gets his fill we would be asleep.

And they would have to charge him for a party of four!

LOL.....

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

Heat

Again, i am 100% in agreement. Look at the archives and i have stated this before, but again, nobody wants to believe it because if it is so bad in america with an AW, pleaae do not tell me i am going to get shafted by the Colombiana. I met and married a Hottie who was most likley in cahoots with the agency owner as the agency owner saved her for me to meet last, and of course, the hottiest of any i met the whole time, and then told me this was the girl for me and i would never find better, SOOOOOOOO

Dumb, no spanish speaking gringo here up and married the girl only to find out later that she most likely did marry me for a green card

BUT

The irony in all of this is that after all the crap and her wanting a green card more then anything, she does really love me and if i want her , all i have to do is say  STAY.

Trouble is, i do not want her anymore  

I guess even the bad ones can change sometimes

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by Kiltboy1 on Jun 20, 2005

Yep, I remember your story well.  

What I bet happened is she played you to begin with.  Then she fell in love with you.  Why? Because deep down you are a decent guy.  And you're good looking too.

So she got hooked on her own scam.  When she left you she soon found out that the Colombians here in the U.S. are mostly players and lier's.

She then realized that she was passing up the best thing she had ever seen.  But by then you were over her.
So she is now torn up over it.  You really don't want her.

Which drives any women nuts!

So she became a victim of her own scam.

Kind of ironic huh?  But Amigo you will find another women now if you decide to dump her for good.  You speak good Spanish and know the game.

Once you learn the game it's makes you bulletproof almost.
And when you speak Spanish they know that you can kick them to the curb and get another in two seconds.

That my amigo gives us the winning hand.

Regards

... in response to Re: Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia........, posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

Dr Heat

An excellent observation and that is what has happened to a tee. She even admitted to me that the Colombians she met in the states are crazy as are the Puerto Ricans. She did not like them much.

... in response to What I saw in Cali Colombia..........Par..., posted by Heat on Jun 20, 2005

Have not agreed with a great percentage of what you post, but in this case, I have to agree with you.  I have done this and I did come to this conclusion (quickly) after dating many hotties.  It may not be right, but I stayed away from women that said they had many friends or relatives in the U.S.  Also, I know of a guy that brought a hottie over to Miami and she left him the day after she arrived.  Had a boyfriend in Miami.  He was blinded by her beauty however as there was many red flags that he did not want admit too.

Also, in my unofficial survey, I have found the happiest guys with marriages that have lasted for a while are with women that are not hotties.  Everyone I personally know, that brought a hottie over did not work  (Some have told me that it was a nice ride however!!).  I would like for others to comment on this. However does this mean that I staying away from hot women??????....Heck no...that is the fun.  However, you really got to be careful if you are looking for a good wife.

... in response to Re: What I saw in Cali Colombia............, posted by latinadreaming on Jun 20, 2005

thanks..I hope this helps some newbie.  Wait till you read the next installment.