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Gentlemen,

Over the last couple of weeks, I have been reading this board  again and also trying to make sense out of my fiasco in Cali.  I will not make this post a long one; but, I am trying to find out how viable this latina thing really is.  If these girls are supposed to be truly interested in american men, and we ask them certain questions about what they want and need; then why is it so hard to understand them?  Also, is it just impossible to get a straight answer to a direct question?  What is wrong with yes or no?
I realize that many of you have had your own share of problems over the years.  I certainly understand why learning spanish is a big help in understanding the ladies.  One of my goals is to learn more spanish.  But other than that, why is is so difficult to understand them?  I am not just limiting my questions to my own situation.  Judging from what I am reading on this board, not very many men actually have a postive relationship or marriage with these latinas.  So, what is reality and what is illusion?  If I am understanding correctly, many of you other posters, in fact most of  you, are not actually in a postive realtionship with a latina either.   You are like me-- you are hoping and wishing you will find that "special lady"; but nothing yet.   I don't mean that as a put down.  So, far my record stinks as well. Now, I also realize that there are a few "lucky ones".  But, I am talking over all, it would appear that the success rate is rather low.  Am I right or wrong?  Lastly, I also want to ask a question I have asked before.  Do you think these latinas really find us that attractive?  I definitely understand that if we american men did not find them overwhelmingly  attractive, we would not have this board, and we wouldn't be spending our money and our time going to LA!  Based on what I am seeing and hearing, somehow I don't think these latinas are into us nearly as much as we are into them!  What do you think?

                                   OkieMan

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

[This message has been edited by valuedcustomer]


I have the following suggestions:

date many women with the goal of finding the one who is right for you.  It is hard finding a match and one of the advantages of a foreign country is you have a lot of choices.  The more choices the more likely you will find someone compatible.  Realistically, this is a long term process and you will need to go down there several times before choosing someone;

you will attract the wrong women if your goal is to become sexual to fast;

observe:  is she compassionate, have a good heart, kind to others, honest, good character, hard working;

stop thinking in terms of generalization, i.e., “Latin Women”, and focus on one woman at a time.   Each has her own particular history, character, motivation;

you need to learn Spanish.  You have to be able to talk to a woman about many different things before you decide you are compatible.  This is just common sense.  I don’t believe guys who say Spanish is not necessary.. you may want to closely look at their results.  I speak fairly good Spanish, but at times still have serious communication problems with my wife;

stop thinking in terms of "Do Latin women find us attractive?".  If you need an ego boost, get an A in Spanish;    

make sure she is really interested in you.  This is one of the advantages of Latin Women is that they are easy to read.  If she calls you pet names and wants to be close to you wherever you go she is interested.  If she just acts like a typical gringa … she is not.  If you have your radar up, you won’t be fooled by a Latin woman.  They are not emotionally capable of putting on a two year pretense to get a green card like a Russian women might be able to do.

Latin Women are not perfect and they can be just as bad as any other women.  There are cultural difference you want to explore, for example, even a middle class woman may have a maid and doesn’t expect to work.  If you don’t know Spanish you won’t learn some very important things before its too late.  If you have a list of 20 or 30 women,  don’t let the bad ones discourage you.  Just check her off your list.  Expecting results with one try is immature and only leads to discouragement.  The advantage of this search is that if you put the work into it you will be able to get a high-quality woman who will be your loyal, loving wife, whereas the same effort expended in American will be futile.  People who don’t put the effort into a project don’t get results.  But then we already know that.

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by valuedcustomer on Jun 15, 2005

Valuedcustomer,

Good advice.  Thanks.

                         OkieMan

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

That makes these women hard to read,but not if they really care about you.
A woman here might play along with a possible relationship even though she is not emotionally connected with the guy.There are lots of reasons.You might be their only opportunity so they might want to keep it open as a possibily even if they are not truly interested.In your case you were lucky in that the woman was not motivated to try and keep it together that much.A woman thinking about it more or a little more patient my play you better.
The other factor is just perks,even if its just dinner.You ask them out to dinner in a nice restaurant,which she may not have been in for a year,she have nothing else going,good chance she  will say yes.And if other perks are coming down,even if not big ones,maybe only some clothing that can be an incentive.You might hear from this woman again after she gets over feeling preasured and thinks about her lack of other options.Don't go for it.She already showed you,not told you how she feels about you.

Pete

... in response to One little complication, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2005

wise thoughts...i have often gone back to the well. not smart. when it is done it is done but sometimes easier said

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

The 2 basic things a guy needs to do to be ultimately successfull are:
1.Don't give up.Keep trying.This involves learning as you go.Things like spanish included within this.
2.Don't get  sidetracked.As in spending too much time with the wrong person.Marrying the wrong person sidetracked me for 4 years but I am back,keeping at it.
There are lots of successfull marriages and relationships.This board being loaded with alot of veterans is tilted towards guys who are back a second or third time.And guys who's objective is no longer finding a wife to take to the states but living here or just  enjoying their time here.Most of them would consider themselves successsfull in living the life they want right now even if they may have a goal that has not yet occured.
Someone said have fun with it.Excellent idea.That woman might just find you when you are not trying too hard to find her but just enjoying yourself.
Of course this can get expensive.So it requires rearanging your priorities if it is important enough to you.While you have that down time in the states you can concentrate on making the money you need to return.Studying spanish.Even writting girls,but for you that might be a bad idea.Don't get real serious over a person you have never met.Also I wonder here,your E mails were translated and delivered through latin Internet.Makes me wonder if there was any sugar coating added in either direction.
So again,a matter of priorities.For some guys,usually old married guys the priority is fishing or golf.If its important enough you can make latinas yours.To me once I got a taste of this I HAD to come back.I think that will be your choice too if you don't get discouraged and talk yourself out of it.

Pete

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Sounds to me like you have gotten your definite word.  

It's time to cast the net and seek other fish.  I would also be extremely careful if the fish tries to swim back in the net. It is more likely that would first appear on the surface.  In order for her to be sending you that many mixed signals, it is likely she also has mixed feelings.  Her feelings are obviously not all negative, so at some point in the future, the positive side may crystallize for a while, and she decides you were the good one that got away.

After I had graduated college and was gainfully employed, several girls that had rejected me during high school and college actually began seeking me.  I passed up several good opportunities because I was wary of the change in attitude towards me and the underlying motivation.

When it's time to move on--it's time to move on.

Mark

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by lapentier on Jun 15, 2005

Hi Mark,

I have sent you an email, but I don't remember if the email address shown on this board is the correct one to use or not.  Email me back if you don't receive it.

                         OkieMan

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005


Do the tourist thing, go out on a bunch of lunch/dinner dates....with atleast 5 to 10 ladies! If you meet someone fine...it you don't, that's fine also. Many guys have found & been found by love....while on vacation in Central/South America.

You'll be find bro....now start planning your next trip down there!

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Jesus, I could go to Medellin and get married every week.

... in response to What?, posted by utopiacowboy on Jun 15, 2005

He got lucky and was with a woman not that desperate to get married,or he would have been easy prey.

Pete

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

You were giving a lot of good advice from many men on this board. Did you follow the consensus? :(

There is no point in asking a lot of questions and not learning from the answers. When one has to ask a lot of questions it often means one is not ready.

You appear to want to blame the Latin women for your lack of success. All women want confident, strong, interesting men and such traits are learned when you are very young they become a part of you. From what Pete tells us you made some major gaffes. There is no point in learning Spanish if you don’t say the right things. The wrong message coming out in English or Spanish is going to hurt you. A good translator would have advised and guided you and prevented an accumulation of errors and tell you where you stand when can't do so. I think you should take Pete’s advice and let him support you in your quest. You need the right onsite support for each step not tidbits of good advice that can’t replace years of inexperience with women.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to OkieMan, posted by Jamie on Jun 14, 2005

Jamie,

Thanks for your points of view.  I will try to consider your comments as constructive criticism.  However, I don't think that I am out of line for wanting more complete information.  I never claimed I was an expert with latin women, but I'm not a idiot either!  The other point I was trying to make is that it seems that many of the other posters on this board aren't doing much better.  If I am wrong in that assessment, then I apologize.  However, percentage wise, it would appear that there are fewer success stories than I had hoped for.  Cultural and language differences aside, I would think that things like basic attraction, enjoyment of other's company, etc would be able to lead men like me to a higher success rate. But, I will also be the first to admit that I have a long ways to go before I would consider myself an expert in this field.

                   OkieMan

... in response to Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

"Cultural and language differences aside, I would think that things like basic attraction, enjoyment of other's company, etc would be able to lead men like me to a higher success rate."

Exactly, but I think you need to follow your own advice.

From my understanding you wrote to one woman and then ended up spending all your time with just one woman. How does that lead to selection by basic attraction. You spent all your time with a woman that basically wasn't attracted to you.

You could have written to one woman anywhere in the world and then gone to meet her. Why Cali? where it is posible to meet 25 - 30 women in a week that you find attractive and then meet them to find out if there is chemistry between the two of you.

... in response to Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

[This message has been edited by beenthere]

Oakie, you must realize that not every gringo who married a latina posts on this board,or even knows about it for that matter.  And of the many members this board has, only a few even post.

Believe me Oakie man, there are thousands upon thousands of gringos (whether they be from the US or Europe) that have met latinas in South America and have married and have successful relationships.  Now, did all of them meet in an agency??  no, some have met casually, some have met over the internet, and yes, some have met in agencies.  Did they have language problems??  cultural problems??  of course...

Don't take this too personally, but I'm a straight shooter, and basically you are being a big baby...You went to Cali and met one girl and it didn't work out, so, now all latin women are complicated...PLEASE!!
But then again, maybe you're not cut out for this (not all men are), and maybe you shouldn't go back to South America looking for a bride...if that's the case move on, but get over all of this negative talk about latinas, and how everyone on this board has failed and there are no successes out there...OK??

... in response to Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by beenthere on Jun 15, 2005

Beenthere,

Thanks for those "kind" words.  Since you don't put any personal info in your profile, I have no idea about your background or expertise.  But,I feel confident that I will prevail through all of this one way or the other.  Utimately, I will do just fine.

                                  OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 15, 2005

Okie, BeenThere could have said things much differently but on the one hand he is not totally out of line with respect to the situation.  No one likes rejection, flaky behavior, scammers, mixed signals, etc., etc.  But that is part of the package and it can happen with any woman Latin or otherwise.  You are entitled to vent, that is what we should be here for. But at sometime which I think is now you realize venting does not do much good.  Better to go to the gym and work up a sweat or pop a couple cold ones and get on with it.  I am looking forward to your next trip report.  I really wish you would give Panama a try so you can enlighten the forum but wherever you go I am sure it will go down differently. i will stay tuned

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Papi,

Yes, I have now officially taken a "chill pill".  Thanks for your pointers.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 15, 2005

i prefer getting laid to a chill pill but sounds like a move in the right direction. we have all "beenthere" - in my case, more than once - much more

... in response to Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 15, 2005

hey, it's just tough love, don't take it too personally...

regarding my expertise...well, let's just say I've "been there"...

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by beenthere on Jun 15, 2005

i agree more or less with your analysis but maybe a little cushioning of the words next time - we all have "beenthere" and it ain't much fun

... in response to Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by beenthere on Jun 15, 2005

"Don't take this too personally, but I'm a straight shooter, and basically you are being a big baby...You went to Cali and met one girl and it didn't work out, so, now all latin women are complicated...PLEASE!!"

A little harsh, but I think very accurate.  OKM is not the only AM to be unable to think outside the AW box on his first trip so he should not take your criticism personally.  Until AM experience the field of LW, they use the field of AW as their reference point.  OKM is using the standard he learned from AW in LW because he hasn't had enough experience with LW to develop a new standard.  There is a different "balance of power" in LA in our favor.  An AM won't be successful with an LW until he realizes this and incorporates that new reality into his strategy and behavior.

Hoda's advice is excellent.  Travel South just for vacation.  Experience Latin women of all kinds.  Learn the culture and the romantic ropes through experience.  Then start looking for a wife after you realize the value of what you have to offer and the value of what they have to offer.

I did exactly that by accident.  I had been vacationing in LA for several years, for pleasure only, before I decided to start looking for a wife.  In fact, it was the experience of how Latin women treated me on my vacations compared to how AW treated me that led me to consider LW as wife material.

... in response to Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by beenthere on Jun 15, 2005

Thank you been there

... in response to Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Focusing on the differences IMHO always leads to trouble. My wife and I never focus on our differences - we focus on what we share and what we have in common - the stuff that binds us together.

... in response to Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

“However, I don't think that I am out of line for wanting more complete information.”

Information has it limits eventually you have to play the game. A rookie quarterback is not put out there with a full play book at his disposal he is given what he can grasp and use in order to get the job done. No one is going to be able to teach you all the nuances of women. That being the case you rely on the right support to cover your weakness. It is that simple.

“I never claimed I was an expert with latin women, but I'm not a idiot either!”

No one charged you with either side. You don’t need to be an expert with Latin women to get a good Latin woman.  

“The other point I was trying to make is that it seems that many of the other posters on this board aren't doing much better.”

The majority of guys who have done this are happily married at home and don’t care to share their lives with the public. Why should such guys be on this forum they have a wife at home? I believe most of the active guys on this board have done better.

“...there are fewer success stories than I had hoped for.”

Heat’s success with a hundred women does not help you in the success with one woman (I sometimes like to stroke Heat’s head to delay his foaming at the mouth). There are plenty of successes, but if you don’t take good advice and make unforeseen blunders you won’t benefit from the lessons.

“I would think that things like basic attraction, enjoyment of other's company, etc would be able to lead men like me to a higher success rate.”

Not if it is one-sided. You still have to be enjoyable and attractive and those are subjective determinations, which mean you only focus on those that see those attributes in you and you must see that they do.

“But, I will also be the first to admit that I have a long ways to go before I would consider myself an expert in this field.”

Most experts are experts at not getting what they want stop trying to be an expert you just need to be effective and take responsibility for your own missteps and make the appropriate adjustments with Pete at you side so you can be coached at the moment.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by Jamie on Jun 14, 2005

I agree with Jamie and Papi on the Okieman saga. Over analysis. Now before I get into it, I don't want to get married. Something about some cow and free milk or something. I'm having a fine time down here being single. But, I still like to go out. For those of you who don't know me, I'm a surly unpleasant bastard most of the time. But, to know me is to love me. LOL! You still have to play the game even living here and strictly dating. You still have to put up with the scammers and free loaders. Hell, after 6 years and damn near 4 years straight here, I still can't tell who's who simply by looking at them. They come in all shape and sizes and financial backgrounds. Who's a pro and who's playing minor league ball. But, the smokescreen they put up doesn't blind me as long as it used to though. It took me 6 years to get to that point.
Hoda hit it on the head, don't make finding a wife a job. Come down as a vacation and date every woman who'll look at you. Have fun with it. You'll probably find someone just on the luck of the draw rather than focusing on just one. I mean, how many stories have we heard about a guy coming down to meet just one woman and they get married on that trip or if they did get married it was over quicker than the engagement. Not a lot, I'm sure. It's usually a woman they met AFTER the woman they had come to meet didn't work out. I know there are some TLC guys who don't post on this board that meet a girl at the party and ask her to marry him that night. I just wonder if that works out or not. I don't know.
When I first moved here, I had a alot of girls calling me and I went out a lot. But when they found out that I planned to stay here, a lot of the dead wood got culled. Kind of makes you wonder.....did they just want me for that VISA to the States or what? But, out of that, I got a better class of women to go out with. Oddly enough, I'm dating the ex-girlfriends again. Go figure.
So Okie my man, this should be fun for you. You aren't going to have a good success rate at your skill level. Just go with it and have fun looking and dating. Don't take it so seriously. You don't need to know everything either. I mean, I'm up for answering questions, but some of your questions are tiresome. Not ragging your ass, but "What do Latinas want?" How am I suppose to answer that? Or anybody else? You got to figure that out for yourself. We can give you what WE think, but that answer might not work for you. Hell, when you find out with reasonable confidence, let me know. I ain't figured it out exactly yet.
The analogy of football is great. You ARE that third string Junior QB thrown in against the defending league champs with those all league defensive tackles. You're out there making the decisions with limited experience in front of a crowd. Kind of scary, but pretty exciting and fun too. At least you got a team behind you though. If we are using sports analogies, I always kind of thought about it like a wrestling tournament. Out there on the mat one on one with someone you don't know or what kind of skills they have and vice versa. The whole match is based on your decisions. You lock up and test their stength. See what they got. Then you try a move and they counter. Ok. Try this. No? Ok, let's try this. Until finally you find something that evetually works for you. Trial and Error. Pin 'em Okie, Pin 'em! LOL! Yeah, I was pretty good at wrestling. 2 years undefeated! Sorry, to put you guys through that. LOL!
Anyways Okie, have a good time with this and don't take it so seriously. Now's a good time to start setting up for the next trip.  Take what you learned and apply it for the next time. Relax!
Holy Crap! I'm finally done with work. I can go to bed now and quit bugging you guys with these long ass posts.
Night folks,
K

... in response to Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by Traveller on Jun 15, 2005

where do you live Traveller?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Down here in Cali. On Av. Estacion.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by Traveller on Jun 15, 2005

i bet you are enjoying yourself

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Yeah, for the most part. But, it's just living here now. The adventure of it is gone now. I get a little frustrated on the way things are done down here, but then I think of the people who are envious of my situation and I put it in perspective. Lie ain't bad.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by Traveller on Jun 15, 2005

I know what you are talking about with respect to how things are done in LA. Drives me nuts at times. I spent a couple months in Cali awhile back and enjoyed it, especially tres cruses - for exercise. What about the security? Do you feel safe? Sometimes I debate with myself over going ex-pat but have no idea where to do it

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Well, my content for my job is in Cali, but if I was going to live down here and do the Ex-Pat "thing", I would move to Quito, Ecuador. $1,400 will get you an investment VISA. I oculd always fly over to Cali every few months and soot photos for the websites.If the girls were as good looking as Calenas, I would be there in a heartbeat, but they aren't. I just generally like the city better and the way things are done there are better than you get in Cali. Not to mention they got Burger King there. LOL!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okie..., posted by Traveller on Jun 15, 2005

Quito! my cuban contacts in Miami tell me they are not bonita.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Do it in Cali.Start with a B&B and work up to an agency if you want,if it works.Jim C is looking for partners in his idea.They have the web site up and everything done already to support another operation.I just don't want to mess with the agency part.But maybe I should explore.Raise my prices and do a better job of directing people?Interview chicas?Dust off my casting couch??Vee can get you a veeesa baby?
When Travelor was here interviewing models my roomate Jack says I am buying a camera.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Do it in Cali.Start with a B&B and work up to an agency if you want,if it works.Jim C is looking for partners in his idea.They have the web site up and everything done already to support another operation.I just don't want to mess with the agency part.But maybe I should explore.Raise my prices and do a better job of directing people?Interview chicas?Dust off my casting couch??Vee can get you a veeesa baby?
When Travelor was here interviewing models my roomate Jack says I am buying a camera.

Pete

... in response to Ex Pat ?, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2005

how about i just live there and keep the chicas for the el papi?? i already tried the agency thing. there is no money in it

... in response to Re: Ex Pat ?, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

I just rent rooms to offset the expense of living in a great place.Its been fun so far and no big problems.
If you play it right you might even cover your expenses.I do sometimes,but not most of the time,but its looking up.
And I never worked it very hard.There is a huge difference between long term and short term rates, if you are in the possistion of renting long term ita an option.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Ex Pat ?, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2005

how about i just rent from you, drink Medellin rum and get laid and forget about trying to invest in LA, unless you can show me how to make a living there otherwise

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Ex Pat ?, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Papi,
Sounds good.Come on down.And I haven't given up on making money here yet.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Ex Pat ?, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2005

I will give it serious thought Pete. thanks

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ex Pat ?, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005


Yo Pete, bust out some clean sheets for Papi. Betcha Papi, will be down there before the end of August...lol

... in response to Stop playing Papi.....you know that you'..., posted by Hoda on Jun 16, 2005

i have been to Colombia several times but not back to Cali in a couple of years. I need Pete to keep twisting my arm but Hoda dont you think the market there is over-fished and full of uneducated spoiled scammers?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by Traveller on Jun 15, 2005

Thanks Traveller.

... in response to Re: Re: OkieMan, posted by Jamie on Jun 14, 2005

Okie, Jamie has given you good advice. Pete has given you good advice. I and others have thrown some good suggestions your way.  You understand the birds and the bees.  This is not rocket science.  You don’t need a coach – just get back in the game whether it is Cali, Medellin, Panama or China. Go get em! There is low hanging fruit - no more analysis paralysis. Forget trying to speed learn Spanish - hit some cities and date some women and throw caution to the wind. You will be happier in the long run. I wish you well
 

... in response to Analysis Paralysis, posted by papi on Jun 15, 2005

Thanks Papi.

... in response to Re: OkieMan, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

The reason guys are not doing better is because there are a lot of scammers, flakes and babies in our search. But what is the alternative?

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Okieman,

You ask.."why is it difficult to understand them????"

Again...with all due respect..... its primariy because of the language barier.

Once you know some Spanish Okieman....this whole process will be so much easier for you....

Good Luck on your Spanish!!!

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Chris F on Jun 14, 2005

Chris,

I am sure you are right.  However, I have noticed that according to the many posts on this board, even the guys who speak really good spanish are only hit and miss with "striking gold", with these latinas.  There seems to be only a handful of men who are dating and subsequently marrying their latinas.  I have also noticed that several of the ones who do, often seem to have a rocky patch with their latinas.  Some are even divorced from them.  So, I am just having a difficult time understanding the true advantages.  Again, I ask the question-- what is reality, and what is illusion?  Sure, there are many, many beautiful latinas that are potentially available.  It just seems that very few american men  are actually having success.  The lousy part of all this is that the older I get, the fewer and fewer options I will have.  That's not a comforting thought.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Bottom line is " if you want a real hottie , you need to live in colombia because you are still better then most that she can find. If you want to bring her back, best to go for a girl next door , attractive, but not too attractive. The hotties know there worth and when they get here, they know there worth just got that much better.

I expect there are some guys that can keep a real hottie here happy, but it is not the norm, but the excpetion.

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Jun 14, 2005

Kiltboy,

Thank you for your comments.  I am curious if you could give me your definition of a "hottie"?  I mean beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all that.  The other thing is- and I hate to keep repeating myself- I AM NOT GOING AFTER THE 18-25 GIRLS!!!  The lady I was just with is 35!  So, if you are trying to warn me (I am 52) that I don't need to chase a 21 year old, I get it!  That is not the type of woman/girl I am after.  I am also not going after the silicone tits party girl either.  I think you get the picture.  I realize that other men here do, and that is their business.  However, that is not my style.  I am trying to better understand their language and culture and see where I might benefit the most.

                         OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

women are much more stable in their 30's. yu will have better luck next time - no doubt about it

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Okie

An older woman can be just as hard to please , sometimes more, then a young one. She has experienced more and may have become acumtomed to a certain type man/lifestyle , that a younger woman may not as of yet, so it can go both ways.

I define a Hottie as a pretty much model/bodacios type that will stand out in a crowd, even a colombian crowd /

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Jun 14, 2005

KB, this posts reminds me of a couple I knew in Michigan.  The women from Cali was a hottie – made me crazy and still does. Models and is a solid 9.  He on the other hand was not Tom Cruise.  I could not figure it out until she eventually dumped him for another man after 4 years of marriage and a kid. This is the problem with unbalanced relationships in the looks dept

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Look alot of guys here have had problems it is not easy.. not even close but
the rewards are huge. Think about your trip this way... you learned a easy lesson
that cost you nothing but a trip and some money. It could have been worse, you
could have married brought her her then after a year found out she used you. It
would have cost you a ton of money now.
 I married a Peruvian back in 2000 and it was a living nightmare for me. This
girl could lie to your face and not even flinch. I made a big mistake but I
corrected it and moved on. Now I have been married for over a year to a very
beautiful Colombian woman who will do anything for me and I will do anything
for her.  There is woman out there for you maybe even more then one but you
have not stray from your goal. I know I fought with Papi alot but one thing he
did do was not cross that line and marry some woman that would not fit his life..

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jun 14, 2005

Fuzzy:

You may want to update your profile... it still has you down as "currently looking in Colombia for a new woman"... based on your recent post, your wife may take offense to this... :-)

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jun 14, 2005

Fuzzyone,

Thanks for sharing your story. I am sorry that you went through the bad marriage with the Peruvian lady.  However, it seems that you are now doing well.   I must confess, I just don't get the lying and deceitfulness thing. I am aware that the world is full of them; but I just don't get it.  Furthermore, I don't want to get it.  I am afraid that if I did, I would turn into one.  The old "takes one to know one" thing.

                         OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

okie, there are lying and deceitfulness AW too - i just dont date them or any AW for that matter. just part of the program. women can be tricky so take your time next time around

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Well it taught me a real important lesson... stand back watch, take notes. don't
let a beautiful woman turn your head. I made a big mistake so has alot of other
men here but when I went to visit my girl in Colombia, I watched and listened.
Everything she told me on the phone, e-mails, chat ect was true. She never lied
to me and I have alot of repect for her because of it.

 Okie I think you will find the right woman but you have to go to other cities
too. Try Barranquilla, so guys say it is boring but if you found that special girl
there you will have a ton of stuff to do. Try to always remember sometimes it is
better to run away and come back another day then lose everything for a simple
mistake of trying to force something that will not work.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jun 14, 2005

Very true, oh Fuzzyone; or is that Obi One?  Ha  Thanks for the help.

                   OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jun 14, 2005

BAQ is an excellent suggestion

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Fuzzyone on Jun 14, 2005

Fuzzy, I would have married the last one had she posted for dinner the day the k1 petition was approved. And Okie thinks he had it bad.

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

All women are the same in life, While their cultures may vary, It does not really matter where they are from, how they look, or how much money they have or not have.  What does matter is if a man is smart enough to understand that a woman is a woman.  Not to be personal, but if you are
a "Candy A?? or Wuss" as some are (not all) on this board, married and unmarried, you will never learn from these sort of fellows.  However there are more than a couple of fellows on this board who do nothing but hustle women, and are good at it, whether one agrees with their game or not.  These are also the same fellows who could have been married 20 times if it suited them.  The hustlers are the guys you can learn from, as they understand women are like cats, and treat them accordingly to which of their 9 lives they happen to be living on any given time of day.    

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by WS244 on Jun 14, 2005

Like it or not, WS244 is correct on this issue.  Sort of like the very fine line between a good salesman and a con artist:  the techniques for both are almost the same.  

It's like two musicians getting together to discuss instruments. They talk about the technical and aesthetic aspects of the instruments, not the music actually being played, unless it specifically demonstrates the qualities of the instrument.

There is a a lot of good advice here on how to lure, catch, and keep that "fish".  You may or may not agree with what they do with the "fish" afterwards, but there is much to be learned about the actual methods of "fishing".

My friend came to me because I have some proficiency in Spanish, I am married to a Filipina, and since the Philippines has a Latin culture, there would be the possibility I would have some understanding of the culture.  Honestly, I am here because I don't understand the Latin culture as well as I should to be a good translator that will help him with his chances of success--not hurt his chances.

Unlike some of these guys, I don't think your mistake was to write to a girl for several months, and then go just to visit one girl.  If you made an error, it was in not spreading your net wide enough before you selected one specific fish as a keeper.  

My friend hasn't found a keeper, yet.  In the case of my friend (who can be assured to be lurking somewhere here on the board--my writing is as much or more for him than it is for you), out of a number of correspondents, I have only seen two or three that would even be somewhat compatible with him.  He is going to have to try possibly hundreds of correspondents before he finds two or three he with whom he can be comfortable. Also, if she isn't comfortable with you, you won't be comfortable with her either...

Don't give up your search.  Do some soul-searching, learn from the others here, and try to learn from your mistakes, and not do them again.  But, don't become discouraged; after all, the only player who doesn't make any errors in the game is the one who never gets off the bench.

Know where you are going on the highway of life, and invite someone to go with you!

Best wishes,

Mark

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by WS244 on Jun 14, 2005

WS244,

Thank you for your comments.  Based on your profile, we have a few things in common.  Even though you are a little older than I am, we are close enough to have come from the same generation.  Also, you are from Texas, and I am from Oklahoma.  BTW, where in South Texas do you live?  I have lived in Texas in the past (Bryan and Conroe to name a few), and I have many relatives in Texas.  At any rate, I am not a wuss, and I did not just fall off the "turnip truck".  But, I also realize that I have some limitations.  The main one is one that I am working on; and that is I need to learn more spanish.  Having said that, I don't care who she is, I will not play games with women.  It's crap, and I am no good at-- but mainly I have no interest in it!  My only desire is to meet a good lady, whom I could love, and get married.  I am not the type to "hustle girls" in bars, etc.  To me, that falls into the category of "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"!  Bottom line is that true love seems to be more elusive that I would have thought-- especially as I think back over the last 30 years or so.

                           
                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Send me your mail address to the one i have posted
ws

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Amigo,
My imput on latinas in general and a  little more specific to your situation.
It can be hard to get imformation out of them,unless they are very interested in you,in which case they will let you know.
So,I would say forget writting,you can get way ahead of yourself with a girl you never met.Or she can too.I think because of the writting she spent alot of time with you.I don't know if she didn't have any chemistry to start with but I think if there was some it went away.
Also,even if there is chemistry you can drive them away.In my opinion you were far too serious too fast to the point of driving her away.She said something like that to Beatriz.You scared her.Even  a 35 year old with a kid can be overwhelmed to where she gets the feeling let me out of here.
And you talked her to death,even if with an interpretter.Telling her you didn't have any money it seems like at least 10 times was probably not impressive.You do have money by her standards,but maybe she thought you were actually poor by the time you were through.And on and on and on with everything that came in your mind and then repeating it 5 more times.Not the way to make a good impression.
So,my recommendation.Save your money,study spanish,pimsler tapes are good,I know you do alot of driving,you can use that time.Return to Cali,yes Cali.There are more choices and you need alot more choices to find that one that is truly interested in you.Go to an agency.Meet alot of women.Be a little cool,let them show some interest before you come on with your life story.Find one that really seems interested in you,but then take it slow,don't overwhelm her right away.Let her think she just might have a chance with you,don't throw yourself at her.I made that mistake,turned being pursued in to the pursuer way too fast.I still think there is a possibility the relationship with my wife may have been different if I had let her develop feelings for me,not being so sure of me.I blew that one big time.They loose respect for you.Save the on and on and on stories untill she is commited to you.Listen more,talk less.Thats a good suggestion in general,people get bored talking to someone if they never get to talk.I know you are very verbal like me,I struggle with this too.
Just some things to think about while planning your next trip.I would come back.There is nothing even close for women in my opinion.And I think for a green gringo Cali is the place.Actually I think its the place for about anybody.
Perhaps I should have told you this personally.But I think guys here are trying to understand.I hope you are not offended.I think you can handle it OK or I wouldn't say it.Plus there is a lesson here,lots of guys do something similar.I did.But she married me anyway.Which as everybody knows did not work out.
My girl friends now are crazy about me.Perhaps because they can't have me,at least yet.Both of them treat me extremely well and I think would even if we were commited and got married.The groundwork of respect has been established.It was easy because I was never head over heals with either of them.
My first girlfriend here I actually drove away emmotionally by being too available,giving too much.She was thrilled with me initially,then lost respect for me.Now she would like me back.She knows there will never be another sugar daddy like me.But the sugar daddy she knew is different now.I am a slow learner sometimes.Its not even about knowing better,its about doing better.

Pete

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

Just wanted to say that this is a ALL-STAR post.  The secret to success.  Can't tell you how many times I really wanted a woman in Cali but I saw no interest from her and I quickly moved on. However, in Cali, as it should be everywhere actually, you move on quickly. Another beautiful woman is walking down the street. You will find another one quickly that is interested in you and beautiful too!!  Many, many, many beautiful women. Also I am thinking of the ones that showed interest in me and I did not. Some of the most hottest girls you ever want to see.  I have to agree with Pete on this--the beauty of Cali is you have the quantity of women  and the trick is to learn how to pick the right ones for you.This can take a while, and this is the wisdom of the experiece guys.  

My first trip to Cali I went to LE:

Stage 1.  Could not believe that so many beautiful women could be in one city.  I was in a state of shock.

Stage 2.  Really could not believe that so many beautiful were interested in me!

Stage 3. I was "heaven" just going out each and every night with all these beautiful woman. I was having a ball.

Stage 4.  You start waking up to how the women are treating you.  You act accordly.  This can take some time.  I was lucky in that I had friends from Cali that would keep me straight on the tricks on the Calenas.  I only lost a few days pursuing bad relationships because of my friends.

Stage 5.  You understand how to take your time; enjoy the whole experience (good or bad).  Enjoy the people, the culture, and expecially, the women!!  This is so much fun!!

Also, the number of so-called unsuccessful guys that post here, but one thing that I have never seen discussed on this board is how many latina hearts the gringos have broken. Many gringos break a lot of latina hearts as well.

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by latinadreaming on Jun 15, 2005

New guys can be vulnerable coming here before they figure things out.But the women can be vulnerable too.Most are looking for a good serious guy.A guy can say just what they want to hear and have them at his mercy.Some guys consciously,like married guys coming here.Other guys less consciously who just fall in love with every chica then don't follow through.I met several ladies at agencies that were extremely interested in me.I lead them to believe I was too,because I was in a way.But not serious enough to follow up considering my other choices. I feel a little bad about that,I didn't handle it right.They were probanbly sitting by their phone for a week.One woman called me a week later,I was trying to explain in my poor spanish.She just hung up on me.I could almost hear the
F--K YOU through the dead phone.
But I never seriouly led anyone along.

Pete

... in response to We have our stories,so do the women, posted by Pete E on Jun 15, 2005

I have done the same thing! My point is that this goes both ways.  I have met some guys who just come down for the intention of seeing how many they can get into bed. This is not the norm however, most guys that go to agencies are looking for wife, but it happens.

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

Pete, I like your quote very much:

"Its not even about knowing better,its about doing better"

This has a lot of applications... both practical and spiritual...

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

What you wrote reminds me of this scene from the hilarious comedy, "Swingers."   Mike is the best friend who is having a horrible time meeting women.  He's a little too talkative, a little too needy, and little too respectful.  Yet, one evening, he successfully exchanges phone numbers with a woman at a bar, and this is how things unfold:

MIKE'S APARTMENT - LATER THAT NIGHT  
                   
       Mike opens the door and flicks on the lights in his sparsely
       furnished single.

       He drops his keys on the table and makes a bee line to the
       answering machine.

       He pushes the button.

                            ANSWERING MACHINE
                       (synthesized voice)
                  She didn't call.

       Mike collapses into his futon and lights a smoke.

       Beat.

       He pulls out the COCKTAIL NAPKIN.  He stares at the number.

       He looks at the clock.  2:20 AM.

       He looks at the napkin.

       He thinks better of it, and puts the napkin away.

       Beat.

       He takes out the napkin and picks up the phone.

                            ANSWERING MACHINE
                       (synthesized voice)
                  Don't do it, Mike.

                            MIKE
                  Shut up.

       He dials.

       It rings twice, then...

                            NIKKI
                       (recorded)
                  Hi.  This is Nikki.  Leave a message.
                       (beep)

                            MIKE
                  Hi, Nikki.  This is Mike.  I met you
                  tonight at the Dresden.  I, uh, just
                  called to say I, uh, I'm really glad we
                  met and you should give me a call.  So
                  call me tomorrow, or , like, in two days,
                  whatever.  My number is 213-555-4679...
                       (beep)

       Mike hangs up.

       Beat.

       He dials again.

                            NIKKI
                       (recorded)
                  Hi.  This is Nikki.  Leave a message.
                       (beep)

                            MIKE
                  Hi, Nikki.  This is Mike, again.  I just
                  called because it sounded like your
                  machine might've cut me off before I gave
                  you my number, and also to say sorry for
                  calling so late, but you were still there
                  when I left the Dresden, so I knew I'd
                  get your machine.  Anyway, my number
                  is...
                       (beep)

       Mike calls back right away.

                            NIKKI
                       (recorded)
                  Hi.  This is Nikki.  Leave a message.
                       (beep)

                            MIKE
                  213-555-4679.  That's all.  I just wanted
                  to leave my number.  I don't want you to
                  think I'm weird, or desperate or
                  something...
                       (he regrets saying it
                       immediately)
                  ... I mean, you know, we should just
                  hang out.  That's it.  No expectations.
                  Just, you know,  hang out.  Bye.
                       (beep)

       He hangs up.

       Beat.

       He dials.

                            NIKKI
                       (recorded)
                  Hi.  This is Nikki. Leaves a message.
                       (beep)

                            MIKE
                  I just got out of a six-year
                  relationship.  Okay?  That should help to
                  explain why I'm acting so weird.  It's
                  not you.  It's me.  I just wanted to say
                  that.  Sorry.
                       (pause)
                  This is Mike.
                       (beep)

       He dials again.  There's no turning back.

                            NIKKI
                       (recorded)
                  Hi.  This is Nikki.  Leave a message.
                       (beep)

                            MIKE
                  Hi, Nikki.  This is Mike again. Could you
                  just call me when you get in?  I'll be up
                  for awhile, and I'd just rather talk to
                  you in person instead of trying to
                  squeeze it all...
                       (beep)

       He dials yet again.

                            NIKKI
                       (recorded)
                  Hi.  This is Nikki.  Leave a message.
                       (beep)

                            MIKE
                  Hi, Nikki.  Mike.  I don't think this is
                  working out.  I think you're great, but
                  maybe we should just take some time off
                  from each other.  It's not you, really.
                  It's me.  It's only been six months...

                            NIKKI
                       (Live, in person.  she picks
                       up the line)
                  Mike?

                            MIKE
                  Nikki!  Great!  Did you just walk in, or
                  were you listening all along?

                            NIKKI
                       (calmly)
                  Don't call me ever again.

                            MIKE
                  Wow, I guess you were home...
                       (click)

       She hung up on him.

       He's frozen.

       He hangs up.

       Beat.

       He pulls the comforter off the futon and curls up in the
       corner of the room.

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by doombug on Jun 14, 2005

Doombug,

That was a funny routine. I guess I am not familiar with that show.  Well, I want you to know that I have nothing in common with that guy.  I live in Beverly Hills (Oklahoma), I have a full time butler and a maid.  I talk to Donald Trump twice a week, and Steven Speilburg is coming over to "do lunch"!  ha ha  Seriously, thanks for the jokes.  It was funny.

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

It's one of my favorite movies.

I've been in a few similar situations like Mike's phone call, and the movie just parodies such male foibles.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by doombug on Jun 14, 2005

Doombug,

If you enjoy comedies, did you ever see Tom Selleck in Her Alibi?  That was made in the late '80's.  It is hysterical, and the girl in the movie is hot!  I believe she is an Eastern European model.  But, the story line of the movie is very creative and absolutely funny.

                      OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

No, I haven't.  But, thanks for the tip.  Old Tom Hanks movies are awesome, and I'd thought I'd seen them all.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-..., posted by doombug on Jun 14, 2005

Not Tom Hanks, I said Tom Selleck.  But, I like Hanks too.
It's just that this particular movie dealt with an american guy trying to help an Eastern European  hottie.  It is very funny.

                      OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forw..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Holy crap, my gaff.  I think I got them mixed up, with Tom Hanks having done so many comedies.  

In any case, I appreciate the movie suggestion.  I'm going to hunt it down.

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

Pete,

Thanks for your words of wisdom.  There is a lot of truth to what you say.  It will take me a while to lick my wounds and get on with it.  I did appreciate the time I had at your place.  I am sure that one reason why I acted the way I did was because I was there for around 8-9 days. If I scared the girl away, that is sad.  That was never my intention.  You have a big advantage by living down there.  You can take it slow.  I guess I should have slowed down too. I am sure there is an "art" to all of this; I just was never very good at it.  So, now, I have to move on.  I guess all of this is way more complicated than I had hoped.  I know one thing for sure. Now, I will not invest my time writing any girls before I meet them.  I did that this time because I thought that she was a special lady.  Plus, I was thinking that she and I could cover some ground before I arrived.  All of that was obviously a wasted effort.  So, I will not make that mistake again.  Also, I am generally bored with most women.  I rarely find women that really, deeply interest me.  But, that girl did.  Evidently, the feelings were not mutual.

                           
                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

You spent five months writing to this woman and because it didn't work out, you're now convinced that it's pointless to write. Clearly it was pointless to write to HER. Or maybe it was just a case where the "in person" chemistry was not there for her. Who knows? I wrote to my wife for exactly 2 months before I met her and three months after that we were married. Hell, I married her on my second visit. Surefire path to disaster is what many here would say. Well, here we are 2 years later still going strong. There is no one size fits all. What works for one doesn't work for another.

... in response to You're bouncing around like a rubber bal..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jun 15, 2005

It is very true that every one uses different routes to achieve the goal, however, I wonder can we get a list of do's and don't that in most cases (not all) the chances of success are very slim.

1) Asking a girl to marry you after meeting her two or three days after meeting her.

2) Marrying a girl that does not intoduce you to her family

Please add.

... in response to You're bouncing around like a rubber bal..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jun 15, 2005

Thanks for your insight.

... in response to You're bouncing around like a rubber bal..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jun 15, 2005

[This message has been edited by papi]

smartest thing i have heard yet. Not everyone must learn Spanish to succeed as many insist here, some use agencies - other's dont, some like tours, some write..as you say it is not all one size. i think you are also correct about your comments regarding El Poblado in another post - almost the same as Miami

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

very smart advice

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

Pete
Thanks for the insight on Okiemans situation.  I am certain that had to be a hard post to make but it is helpful for outsiders who do not know the whole situation.  Your feeling that it was ok to make this point shows that Okieman must be a tough thick skinned fella.  
For whatever it is worth, it has shed some light on what may have went down and is a good piece of advice we all should apply.  
Fathertime

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

OKM, the tone of your most recent post reeks of contempt for the lady you visited and of a huge generalization to all Latin women.  You have said that one of your faults is impatience.  In your life, have you been talented enough to have succeeded at everything you tried THE VERY FIRST TIME?????  Relax!!!!

The issue is NOT compatibility between ALL Latinas and ALL AM, but between ONE INDIVIDUAL Latina and YOU!  Most Latinas who join agencies have been disappointed with LM, or have female relatives in relationships with AM or Europeans, and want a man who is faithful, respectful, and loving.  If you meet women who are very materialistic, then it is the opportunity for money that attracts them to you, provided you have money.  If you meet women who are not very materialistic then it is these other qualities that attracts them to you, provided you have them.

For example, my noiva's first boyfriends were Brazilian and according to her most had other girlfriends on the side.  One even had a wife on the side.  She quickly tired of this and started dating foreign men.  She had a serious relationship with a European guy before me.  She has remarked to me several times that men from North America adn Europe are VERY different from Brazilian men in their total outlook on life.  We live much less in the present and focus on preparing for the future much, much more than most Brazilians do.  We care for our children more intensively than do most Brazilian men.  We even eat, as in appreciate food, differently.  After I declined to eat a food because I didn't like its texture even, though I thought it tasted good, she replied that we foreign men are too picky with our food.  We need it to taste good, look good, be the right texture, be the right temperature, etc.  Brazilians only need food to taste good.

The point I am trying to make is that this quest is not like repairing a car, where if you follow a set of directions and instructions you will get the exact result you want every time.  It is more like playing golf, where with a certain level of skill and a set of equipment, you can go from one course to another and play to the best of you ability.  On some courses you will play better than on others.  On the some days you will play better than others.  One the very best things about looking for love in LA is that there is such an abundance of eligible and available women that we don't need to obsess about failing with any one woman.

Even though some on this list are not impressed with him, Larry G. from the LW list gives excellent advice about us needing to take stock of what we have to offer, decide on what we need in a woman, assess whether what we are looking for is realistic in relation to what we have to offer, and then develop a strategy for finding what we are looking for.  Some of us call this getting a check-up from the neck-up.  From your reaction to outcome of this visit, it seems to me that you did not do this very thoroughly.  Other men who failed spectacularly have admitted not thinking through all their decisions.  My suggestion is that you assess yourself and your desires to make sure they are consistent with each other and are realistic.  In my opinion, that is the ONLY way you will find a woman who is compatible with you.

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Brazilophile on Jun 14, 2005

Brazilophile,

Thanks for your input.  BTW, I do not have  contempt for the lady in question.  I am hurt and disappointed.  But, I am questioning many things that I had thought were either likely or true.  As you said, I need to re-assess my priorities, as well as my approach to this entire process.  So, that is exactly what I am doing.   I also wanted to toss this out to some of you, because I felt you would appreciate the opportunity to discuss it-- as you have.  Thanks again.

                       OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Okie, my last novia who I vacationed with and spent much time with posted 1 hour late to meet me at the airport my last visit her in Colombia.  The next day, my K1 petition was approved via email from the US govt – you know what happened – she did not even show up to meet me for dinner and blew me off completely after I went through all that f..g paperwork. You know what she told me when I was about to drop off a certified letter back in the US to cancel the visa - gracias para todo (thank you very much sucker). Your experience was not nearly as trying –get back on the plane!

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by papi on Jun 14, 2005

Papi,

 So, let me see if I understand your story.  This lady is  now in Colombia or the States?   Did she ever tell you why?  So, was she just a green card shark?  Is there some "green card shark schools", where they teach these women the ropes? ha  Oh, well.  Based on that, I am lucky.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Reality Check.  Says it all, and not said enough.  

I've virtually abandoned the idea of ever returning to LA (or any other "foreign bride" destination), even though I've only been to Peru.  Learned enough.  Been straggling in here less seldom--mostly out of habit, and a lingering curiosity.

"Do you think these latinas really find us that attractive?"

They won't say it to your face.  But, I think there's just enough desperation in many of them to TEMPORARILY overlook such things as "chemistry"/mutual attraction.  I sensed it in my wife, and it's partly the reason why I folded.    

We have so thoroughly convinced ourselves--or have been so thoroughly convinced--that our pot-bellies, graying/balding scalps, stature, or language skills are insignificant, that the shock that awaits many of us further down the road goes unseen.  Driving at night without headlights might get a few of you home, but what a risky venture.

I'd never sacrifice an insular life to be with a desperate woman.

That's what I learned.

Bye the way, I know some sensitive types will be insulted that I mentioned flaws that are turn offs to many  women (especially younger women), but, oh well.  The "feel-good" Oprah crap belongs to AW's.  I have a sufficient quantity of flaws my self, but I'm not blind.

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by doombug on Jun 14, 2005

DB,  You mentioned only physical qualities.  What about personality and other non-physical qualities?  You just stated that desperation in a woman would kill a relationship with her, REGARDLESS of her physical beauty.(?)  

Could not that also apply to us?  Could not some Latinas accept a less than great looking man in exchange for a great personality and good character?  On LWL some women opst occasionally, several said that they are not attractde to great looking men because it is too easy for them to be unfaithful. They preferred plainer men with the character to be faithful.

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by Brazilophile on Jun 14, 2005

It's much more difficult to accurately gauge "chemistry" if you're courting someone from LA who may be influenced by even mild poverty.    

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

I think your reality check is a step in the right direction.  Part of our appeal is the fact that we can offer a better life. However, I also feel that Latinas are not quite as hung up on looks and age. But lets be honest, the overriding attraction is the opportunity for a better life.  If that wasn't the case, then meeting Latinas in Miami would be as easy as Cali and I can ensure you that it isn't.  That being said, you can find a sweet, sincere Latina who is truly into you but given your age – you are going to better off looking elsewhere besides the scammers, flakes and babies found in many of the options you have previously explored.  But Okie, you need to ask yourself.  Do you truly want to get married?  Are you looking for wife material or a hottie to have a goodtime? But again if you want an honest and lasting relationship - I would suggest you try a change of strategy. I can help you and you dont even need to learn Spanish. Just rethink your plan of action and type of lady

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by papi on Jun 14, 2005

Papi,

Thanks for your honest assessment, but in my way of thinking I have gone about it in the right way.  I am honest and sincere, and I have not been chasing ho's or 21 year old latinas!  This last lady I was with was 35, almost 36.  But, for the rest of it, that is why I wrote this post.  For me, there are just too many unanswered questions; at least at this moment.  I am not giving up, but I don't like to be played the fool either.  Like I asked before, what is wrong with getting a simple yes or no answer?  Is that too much to ask?  I can handle an honest no.  What I don't want is," I can't make up my mind if I like you well enough now.  But, if you'll take me out for nice dinners, etc; then I'll let you know".  Afterwards, of course, it is "sorry Charlie Tuna"! Now, I realize the economic situation down there, up to a point; but somewhere along the way, it just all becomes a scam.  Like I said before, Cali is not the only place I will look.  I understand that there have been many discussions on this board concerning many men who have gone to many places.  But, where is the results?  It seems that only a very small percentage of men are honest and truly finding a successful marriage, or relationship.  The rest of us are either coming up empty or after a while, the relationship starts to unravel.  Well crap, that is the same thing that is going on here in the USA!  So, where is the benefit?  Like I said, I have a lot more questions than answers, but my frustration on this whole process is at an all time high!

                                OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Here is just some general feedback on some things to consider:

1. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket, try to date several ladies

2. Continue pursuing women in their 30's maybe 40.

3. Explore other areas besides Cali and Colombia

Okie, many of us have experienced frustrations far worse than you including getting scammed, ladies that take a hike when they arrive here, women that change their mind on the approved visa, money stolen, or worse, etc., etc.  

My first novia from Cali was a good woman.  I lived with her for 2 years and she would have made a great wife.  Get back in the saddle and put your recent ordeal in perspective man! And take advantage of guys like me that can help

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by papi on Jun 14, 2005

More food for thought...

A wise man once said to me that if a Latina is not biting on your ear by the second date – she is not into you.  Well, there maybe some truth to that statement.  Secondly, with respect to getting a straight answer.  If you look up Straight Answer in the dictionary you will not see a Latino...they don’t like conflict and getting straight answers are not part of their culture.  Try negotiating a business contract in Latin America and you will understand what I am talking about.  It just goes with the territory.  At least they don’t ask to see your W2 or what kind of car you drive like an AW

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by papi on Jun 14, 2005

Papi,

 That's all true, plus Pete has given me his assessment of the situation.  That is especially helpful since he knows me and met the girl in question several times.  I guess that I "blew it", by her standards.  Unfortunately, I never got to see it coming until after I had come home.  I guess that I am too direct, by latin standards.  So, the next time, I will listen more and talk less( as Pete recommended).  The problem is that even though there are great looking women everyone in LA, it will now probably be somewhat difficult for me to seriously consider what a latina says as the truth. I don't know if they are capable of saying what is truly on their mind.  Someone wiser than I am will have to decide that.  Maybe over time, I will trust someone again; but not now!

                                OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

On the basis of one woman, you are making all these generalizations. This is a guaranteed way to screw up the next one. Say you meet a woman but you are convinced that she's just like the last one but maybe she's not. Maybe she's different. So instead of responding to her as an individual, you're responding to her as though she was just like the last one. This is a recipe for disaster. I know a lot of Colombianas quite well - including my wife's sisters and friends - probably about 20. Guess what? They're all different.

... in response to How can you be making these generalizati..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jun 15, 2005

Yes, you are absolutely right.  I will try not to generalize.

... in response to How can you be making these generalizati..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jun 15, 2005

I agree with you, UC.  Claiming that one is not going to trust ANY Latina because things didn't work out with one is not a successful strategy.  I am now wonderng if what we are seeing in this thread is OKM's usual reaction to adversity/failure/not gettng his way.  If the Latina in question got a whiff of this in Cali, she might have decided that he was not the man for her.

OKM, this is not meant to be a negative post or a slight on you.  It is an observation on how you may have inadvertantly contributed to your current situation.

... in response to Re: How can you be making these generali..., posted by Brazilophile on Jun 15, 2005

Brazilophile,

My intentions were to pose questions and get responses from all of you posters. ( which I did).  I did not treat that lady in this way.  Besides, you ought to know that I was also "venting my anger" about this situation.  Have no fear, I am not going to "THE DARK SIDE"!  ha

                               OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: How can you be making these gene..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 15, 2005

That's what will get you through this and on to the next one. And they're right - laughing sure beats crying.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

If they like are really interested in you they will let you know.Any mystery and she is not the girl for you.Don't waste any time wondering why,move on.
Its actually simple in a way.

Pete

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-..., posted by Pete E on Jun 14, 2005

Pete,

Well, I guess I am moron, because I really thought she was interested; and she was affectionate!  Naturally, early on in any relationship there will be some issues to discuss.  But, the thing that upset me the most is that I was not aware there was any problems until after I came home.  I could have dealt with something not working out while I was still there.  That way, I could have had time to back up and regroup-- and look for someone else.  So, it appears that I should have not set it up with her originally to spend all of my time with her.  I should have told her upfront that I will be meeting other ladies too.  That is one reason why I will never be writing to any ladies in advance again.  Basically, I put her in the driver's seat without realizing it.  Lesson learned.

                            OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forw..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Okieman, no one wants to experience what you went through but anyone who has spent time in LA has probably gone through the same thing. You can be guaranteed success. it is all a game and not that difficult. you spent one or two trips - that is nothing. if you will try again and date 2-3 women over a period of 3-6 months you cant lose. look, learn, listen...and have fun with it. Also, most guys here dont approve of mongering - but you need to find something to take the edge off during your search and chill out. You do not need to hassle with learning Spanish like many guys here insist although it certainly helps. Pay for an interpreter, send your lady to school or date women that speak English - i know many. just get on the f...g plane again and dont wait 6 months between trips. If you dont have the dinero - then go back to AW because this is not a budget project. You are going to need $5000-$10,000 minimum to find happiness and your naranja - money well spent. I can find you a good lady if that is what you really want. Hotties for play - an attractive, sincere woman for keeps

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving ..., posted by papi on Jun 14, 2005

Thanks for the insight Papi.  Not to worry.  I am  doing better now.  Last night, I turned into "Jack the Ripper".  But, after a few murders I feel much  better! ha (Just kidding!) Best of luck with your agency.

                      OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Mov..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 15, 2005

Okie Man -  I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest and would like to ad some more opinions.  You have learned a lot about another culture in a short period of time and hopefully this will make it easier for you in the future.  For sure the latinas cannot or will not tell a guy they have lost interest- thats for you to discover so always look for signs.  Most of the guys on this board have also made many mistakes and have not pursued the most efficient way to meet and marry a good woman and thats why they have been here for so long and are still posting. There is also a lot of guys here who have no intention of marrying and more power to them.   In 15 years of owning an agency I have haD ABOUT 1200 MARRIAGES WHERE THE GUY MADE 3 OR LESS TRIPS TO cOLOMBIA - MARRIED AND HAS LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER IN THE us. These guys do not need to post here as they easily achieved their objectives so when someone tells you it will cost you $5000 to $10,000 from start to finish I think thats way too high.  If you have a good plan you should accomplish your objective within one year.  Like everyone else here I hope you continue in your search as in the long run it will be worth the effort.  Based on what I have read about you I believe you would be happier in Bogota with the ladies there. Buienas suerte!

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

OKM,

"Like I asked before, what is wrong with getting a simple yes or no answer? Is that too much to ask? I can handle an honest no. What I don't want is," I can't make up my mind if I like you well enough now. But, if you'll take me out for nice dinners, etc; then I'll let you know". Afterwards, of course, it is "sorry Charlie Tuna"! "

If this question is sincere and you have been taking women out to dinner who are not into to you, then you have not been reading the many posts here about how Latinas express their emotions.  Pete, myself, and many others have repeatedly written that Latinas show their emotions very plainly.  If they like you and want to be with you they show it clearly through their affection and smiles.  If they don't want to be with you they show that as well very plainly, through lateness, lack of affection, rudeness (as in many cell phones calls in your presence), no smiles, no eye contact.  

Here is my short answer to your question; if she is not giving clear YES, then it is a NO!

PROXIMA!!!!!

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Brazilophile on Jun 14, 2005

Brazilophile,

I understand what you are saying. She was very sweet, and she did not treat me in the manner you just described.  Having said that, something obviously happened.  Just when I don't know.  However, I am trying to learn from my mistakes.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality ch..., posted by Brazilophile on Jun 14, 2005

"Here is my short answer to your question; if she is not giving clear YES, then it is a NO!"

Precisely.

If she really digs you, correspondence will quickly follow.  Either by phone or email, no matter the roadblock.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Realit..., posted by doombug on Jun 14, 2005

I agreee.   So, this deal is dead, and I am moving on.
I am just trying to figure out how to not repeat my same mistakes. I don't want to repeat them, and then have this crap happen all over again.
                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

dont beat yourself up over it. these are not mistakes just a learning curve. they are of a different culture. you can increase your odds greatly by being in demand - and that is to focus on more than one lady.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Re..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Though Pete may not might be living the ideal lifestyle you'd envision for yourself, he is definitely among the wisest disher-outers of advice here.  Plus, he has a heart of gold, spilling the truth in a manner that doesn't come off as patronizing or insulting.  

He seems to have evaluated everything quite well, and gave you some excellent suggestions.

That one post may have been the most important one you have ever read here.

Save it, print it, laminate it, abide by it.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Moving forward-..., posted by doombug on Jun 14, 2005

Doombug,

Very true.

... in response to Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Howdy Okieman,
We do not know each either but I have followed your story closely and thought I would weigh in a bit.  From what I have gathered the success rate does seem low and even lower in Ukraine.  I do not think that the latinas find us any more attractive than we really are.  We are a package to them and a large part of the package is our geography.  
When around the latinas I just want to be fun-loving and light with the conversation.  Why get too serious and question their lifes goals.  Part of attraction is having fun and that is usually the first part.  My thought is first we have fun than we find out if we have congruent goalsa and want to be serious.  Did you have fun with your potential woman or did she get hammered with deep questions?  It seems that a one week trip is just not truly enought unless you are willing to take the risk of going for it.  I am willing to do that but most are not and I do not know if that is good or bad.  It looks like you learned a lot on your trip and I learned a lot on mine.

I am looking at my options here in the states and my overwhelming thought is that I will definately be back to Cali. I would rather take the chance and have the chance to hit it big rather than settle for what I am likely to get here.  
Good Luck
Fathertime

... in response to Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by fathertime on Jun 14, 2005

Fathertime,

Thanks for your comments. BTW, that is an interesting handle that you use; especially if you are still only in your late thirties.  At 52, I guess I am  "old geezer"!ha
To get back to your questions, first of all, with this particular lady; she and I corresponded for 5 months before I arrived.  That is when I asked most of my questions.  When I was in Cali, we mostly went out and had fun.  With her, it was easy to enjoy myself.  She was beautiful, sweet and charming. But, she was not some 20 something, with siicone tits and no brains!  However, that still did not seem to help my situation.  Apparanetely, I am unable to understand the subtle "hints" she must have been giving out. She evidently chose to totally ignore my questions that would be normal at times like that.  I was trying to "take her temperature", so to speak.  Since I do not speak much spanish at present, I had several people that helped me to translate many of my conversations with her.  In my mind, I gave her many opportunities to bow out gracefully, if she did not wish to continue.  But, instead, I find out about this crap after I get home.  I guess I am the last one to find out!  I hate that!  All she had to do was make her wishes known, and I would have had time to look for some other lady to spend some time with.  I realize that there are no guarantees with this, but I don't like to be purposefully mislead!(That's the way I see it).  The other part of my first post on this thread was the observation that there are not too many other men that were finding "true love" either.  There seems to be a lot more "wishing and hoping" on all our parts. If I am wrong about this, I would like someone to tell me.  Having said all that, I am not giving up either.  But, I am trying to re-access my situation.

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re:  Moving forward-- Reality check, posted by OkieMan on Jun 14, 2005

Okieman,

I haven't seen any evidence that your lady intentionally mislead you. I think it was a combination of:

1) everything moving so fast she didn't have a chance to figure things out - you only saw her for a week *and* at the same time you seemed to expect a degree of seriousness from her which might take months of being together, and

2) genuine appreciation for the attention, affection, going out on the town, meeting her family and friends, etc. ; and

3) She finally realized (probably on your last night) that some of the things she didn't like (as listed by Pete) were not things that could be resolved by merely talking about them, so why spoil your last night together with a confrontation. She probably thought you werent going to like what she had to say, and since you understand virtually no Spanish you were not going to understand her anyway.

... in response to RE: Intentionally mislead?, posted by ROGUEAGENT on Jun 15, 2005

You may be right.  Time will tell.