Planet-Love.com Searchable Archives

[This message has been edited by zack]

I was reading the posts below about the importance of learning Spanish for this endeavor. Jamie asserts that learning spanish is "not a critical requirement" and "won't hinder your success." This IS true for some people. I know a man who has been married to a Latina for several years and he still doesn't speak Spanish. She was so motivated to learn English that he "never saw the need." It worked for them.

However, to those newbie gringos who don't know Spanish, let me assure you that although learning Spanish may not be a requirement for some people, it will help you TREMENDOUSLY to learn it. My first Colombian novia was a Calena, six years ago who spoke NO English. At the time I spoke only a little Spanish. I can't tell you what a pain in the ass it was, not to mention expensive, to always have a translator around, if not a lap-top computer translator. I wanted to take her to elegant restaurants and such but I also wanted some PRIVACY. I had no choice but to bring the lap-top computer with us to the restaurants just to communicate with her. Even with the lap-top we still couldn't understand eachother completely.

Is learning Spanish a requirement? No. Will it be a huge and expensive pain in the ass if you decide not to learn it? Hell yes.
The bottom line is, don't let your lack of Spanish prevent you from getting on the plane. Just know what you're in for if you decide not to learn Spanish or to just study it half-ass.

Zack

... in response to My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by zack on Apr 30, 2005

people who don't speak Spanish say its not so bad to live in ignorant bliss.  You can easily figure out who does and who does not simply on the position one defends.

there cerainly is a comfort level in speaking the language though.  not having to pay for a translator is certainly a benefit in itself.

I would love to hear some stories from translators on these courtships.  Novels could be written.    humorous, salacious, disgusting all at the same time.

i remember a guy on this board who did not speak Spanish and did not use a translator indicated to his date that he had to go to the bathroom by pointing at his penis.  needless to say, the interpretation differed from the original intent.

... in response to People that speak Spanish say it is impo..., posted by Malandro on May 2, 2005

“people who don't speak Spanish say its not so bad to live in ignorant bliss.”

I never heard someone say this on this board?

I will say I have seen many, many men come down on their own who speak very little Spanish, if any, and will not use a translator. Girls will call us and say they don’t understand him and will we help, but we can’t because the man chooses not use a translator. So without a doubt you have both men and women accepting such ignorance and it is almost with certainty once they do start to understand each other they may not like what they learn. Part of the problem as has been discussed here before is most men don’t plan or budget their trip. So they come down to meet one girl on fairly quick notice but realize they don’t have funds to cover their trip properly once they arrive. I’ve literally had to help guys pay the departure tax and ride to the airport and now that I think about it part of there hotel bill too. Guess who never gets paid back.  These are guys pretty much doing it on their own with little help or knowledge of what to do. When it comes to women many men are impulsive.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Consequence follows conduct, posted by Jamie on May 2, 2005

[This message has been edited by Malandro]

You probably never heard anyone say it that way until now.  but this discussion comes up every so often and predictably, the non-Spanish speakers defend their position and the Spanish speakers express skepticism.  

but regarding translators, You are right.  I doubt many men factor  that into the price of their trip.  How much are they per day?  $20 $30??   I don't know, I'm sure you do.

and add the cost of dinner and drinks for the translator with the hotel and agency tour and paying for all the girls you date and you are talking a good chunk of change for a week visit.  I imagine that men who use an agency tour are spending about $2500 to $3000 including airfare for a week long Colombian adventure.  

now there is nothing wrong with visiting Colombia without much knowledge of Spanish.  better yet, live there.  you have to crawl before you walk.   but some preparation before hand like taking a few classes certainly will go a long way.

... in response to its been said many times before, posted by Malandro on May 2, 2005

It’s not the guy spending the big money that runs out. It’s the guy going down solo normally just to meet one girl that doesn’t ask any questions and just shows up and then finds out he needs help but can’t cover for it.

Most guys using a high end service are going to be spending 4-5k on a typical stay for everything. Now one can budget this down even using a high end service but the majority of my client request upgrades they spend more.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by zack on Apr 30, 2005

Zack you made some good points.
However, I’ve never found a translator to be a third wheel because they always became friends. Yes it is more expensive versus not speaking Spanish if you had no opportunity cost in learning Spanish. But the cost of taking your date and a translator to a Colombian restaurant is still less expensive than taking your American date to an American restaurant. Good or bad most guys spend less than 3 weeks in Colombia before the woman moves to the States. A translator for this stay is a manageable expense.
Again this is a personal decision. Your advice is valuable. What I have been primarily objecting too is the insistence that if you don’t speak Spanish your wrong, offensive and don’t respect your wife.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Good Advice, posted by Jamie on Apr 30, 2005

Jamie,

Is your wife's family upset that you haven't learned Spanish? Be honest. What about your wife? I'm not attacking you. It's just hard for me to imagine a Latina and her family not caring about about this. I'm just curious. My novia and her family would be offended to say the least if I decided not to study Spanish.

Zack

... in response to Re: Good Advice, posted by zack on May 1, 2005

"Is your wife's family upset that you haven't learned Spanish? Be honest. What about your wife?"

I’ve noted in the past that not only my wife but no woman I have ever dated that spoke Spanish ever suggested that I learn Spanish. But of course I didn’t know any Spanish at the time so when I was nodding to the gibberish that was coming out of their mouths I might have been agreeing to learn Spanish :)

(Jake that is a joke, I am sorry that I can’t warn you in advance but that would ruin it for the others.)

The majority of men that use our Personal Introductions service do not learn Spanish beyond the basic words we all pickup from being around a Spanish novia nor have I ever heard of any problems with this. I have only seen problem where the woman was not learning English while awaiting her visa in Colombia.

My situation is unusual, Karina’s mom objected to me seeing Karina from the very beginning and Karina did so behind her mom’s back so she has never supported Karina’s decision or me. The father is in his 90’s and doesn’t say much. I’ve told Karina if I ever become a wall fixture at the dinner table poison me. I am sure all families would like to have the family member directly communicate with each other. But the short amount of conversation that would take place over a year would not justified the time and effort for me to personally want to learn if I were living in the U.S full time. But that is me, I am not requesting anyone to be like me.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by zack on Apr 30, 2005

From the visa cases I have done over the years for
U.S. gentlemen and Latinas, the couples who possess
at least some mutual language skills stand a much better
chance of long-term relationship and marriage success.

Language literally shapes our vocabulary, values and world view.
It is the first thing we learn from our mothers and why what we
speak is called our "mother tongue".  I am convinced that you
cannot truly appreciate another person's culture, lifestyle and
world without some appreciation and skill in the language,
and, in my view, this kind of mutual communication and
appreciation is vital for long-term success with couples.

In short, IMO, best for us guys to learn some Spanish.
In the short term, it's highly desirable, allowing the guys
to meet more marriage prospects and bettering the chances
for finding a suitable match, and in the long run, it's probably
vital for long-term relationship success.

Good luck.

... in response to Re: My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by Gary Bala on Apr 30, 2005

"From the visa cases I have done over the years for U.S. gentlemen and Latinas, the couples who possess at least some mutual language skills stand a much better chance of long-term relationship and marriage success."

Thanks Gary. I was hoping someone would give some facts to support my opinion.  I wanted to assert that although learning Spanish isn't a requirement, not knowing Spanish probably WILL hinder your chances of success. Just because it worked for Jamie and some others doesn't mean that it won't hinder one's chances of success, generally speaking.  

Zack

... in response to Re: My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by Gary Bala on Apr 30, 2005

"Language literally shapes our vocabulary, values and world view. It is the first thing we learn from our mothers"

Well now I see the reason for my error the first thing I learned was where the food was :)

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Re: Re: My 2 cents about learning Spanis..., posted by Jamie on Apr 30, 2005

Studies show that babies' basic language skills can be shaped while they are still in the womb...
It is a fact that when mothers constantly talk (and sing) to their unborn children, those children begin to talk at an earlier age, and have better communication skills (both verbal and written) when they are older.

... in response to you're wrong again Jamie, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005

you couldn’t recognize the smiley face?

I am familiar with such studies.

By the way did you and Jake go to the same school?

Engage the Exotic-Latin-Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by zack on Apr 30, 2005

And lets not forget your new girlfriend's family.....my Spanish is far from perfect...but I am very thankful for studying the language enough to be able to communicate some with her family.

I could not imagine going to spend time with her family and not being able to communicate with anyone in the room?

I have heard of this horror story several times from other gringos who regreted not taking the time to learn the language. Its bad enough you cant talk to your new girlfriend...now your with the whole family...and everyone just sits around smiling at one another because of the langauge difference.....

As most of you know...I met my fiancee in Peru. At the time, she did not speak one word of English....if I did not take the time to study some Spanish years before this...I doubt we would be together right now.....

Going back to what I mentioned before in a previous post, I am sure Okieman and Looking4wife are probably great guys with good hearts ready to give that special latina....but in my opinion they made a mistake by spending way too much time on Planet Love for over six months asking a million questions and over analizing every aspect of latinas when they could have been using all that time to study the language before they took their trip.

I dont want to hear that it is hard to study Spanish from anyone......Spanish is one of the easier languages to learn. Your future wife from South America has to learn English which is the third hardest language learn....she is the one that has her work cut out for her.

The reason I studied the language because when I joined this board almost four years ago to learn more about this process, guys here were telling me how important it was to study the langauge.......

I listened to their advice and took the time to study the language before taking my first trip......and they were right.

So to all the newbies once again out there...ARE YOU LISTENING?????????

... in response to Re: My 2 cents about learning Spanish..s..., posted by Chris F on Apr 30, 2005

Arabic, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Basque, Hungarian, Polish, and German are harder.  

English is relatively easy for a Spanish speaker as is Spanish for an English speaker compared to the above mentioned ones for either.

... in response to Re: My 2 cents about learning Spanish..s..., posted by Chris F on Apr 30, 2005

Chris F

If English is the 3rd most difficult language to learn, what are the top two? I assume Chinese is in there.

Thanks.

... in response to My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by zack on Apr 30, 2005

I would also agree do not let a lack of spanish stop you from going.If you are not motivated enough now maybe you will be when you have someone you want to talk to.
Spanish is very important but you can get by pretty well with a limited amount.For me I not only admit being lazy about learning it but I tend more to emotional relationships.If the emotions are right you can find a way to communicate.And you may not understand everything about a person but if they are crazy about you they will let you know,as my main girlfriend does.She speaks no english but understands pretty well.I can speak and understand spanish,but not real well.
BUT,as Heat says you will always be missing out on a portion of their life if your spanish is not good.And its limiting in social events,like with their family.

Pete

... in response to My 2 cents about learning Spanish, posted by zack on Apr 30, 2005

The reason Jamie says this is HE can not speak Spanish.  If he spoke Spanish he would be telling you it was important.

When he says he will help you sort out the players from the real women then you have to remember he's needs a translator too.  You are buying his opinion on a matter that he himself is a rookie in.  Marriage to a latina.

So what is that worth to you?  You decide.  

That said at least Jamie is honest about his lack of time and experience in South America.  He seems honest but he is very new at what he does.  Again he a least is open about what he does not know.

About the women......

If you want to be on the outside of their life then do not learn their language.  But you will all ways be on the outside of half of their life.

Life has no short cuts....

... in response to Jamie is wrong., posted by Heat on Apr 30, 2005

It is not a right or wrong issue. You can say it is a better or worse but the person is not good or bad for going either route. Since you can’t understand this I will leave it that.

"Wow you are really an emotional type person huh?"

How is that? I had fun showing you as a closet Liberal in your thinking.

"Jamie be real. You know that you are a very basic level Spanish Speaker."

You were the one not being "real" you said, "HE can not speak Spanish." I am able to get around on my own I am a beginner and I never said anything contrary to this, but you did.

"What I can not understand is why after three years you are still speaking basic Spanish."

I did not start learning Spanish until a many months after moving to Colombia because as I indicated, I do not feel it necessary to speak Spanish in the U.S.

"You know I’m right."

Heat if it is right for you good, but it is not right for everyone.

"What I really can not understand is why you want to debate this issue. You lose every time."

I debate to exchange a different point of view. This is not a strong concern for me, but there is nothing wrong with me presenting the minority position on the board and letting others choose as they may. But you are not in that crowd you need to label someone as "wrong" for not doing and believing as you do.

"Now if you want to sell the idea that you can marry a women who you DO NOT KNOW then go right ahead."

I’m not selling that idea I emphasize communications as the key to understanding and building a good relationship but it does not have to be grounded in Spanish.

"If you can not understand the hopes, dreams and desires of someone how can you know them.? And when she comes 1000 plus miles to live in a strange land and culture she will be stressed out. So will you be there for here? To calm her? To understand her fears and needs.? No you will be grunting something in caveman talk. And she will be empty inside. That will surface later."

Heat you are assuming the woman is not learning English prior to going to "a strange land." The woman should be taking English lessons the moment you feel she could be the one so when she arrives she feels some comfort with the language and should continue her studies in the States.

"And when she enters the workforce and she is approached by "Jose" the Cuban with the nice new car and house who offers her the world what will she do? Will she stay with you who has never even tried to learn her language and culture or will she go with "Jose" who can talk to her ? Jose who listens to her every desires and need? The temptation will be to be with someone who is able to communicate with her.
You had better measure up or you might lose her."

Heat one must measure up regardless if you speak Spanish or not. I’ve never been afraid of losing any woman and it has never happened. If one does not have the confidence and qualities to keep what they have or want then they have other issues to work on or choices to make.

"Not learning Spanish is a time bomb. And it will effect your marriage. You will be on the outside of all social events and happenings. You kids may speak it and you do not. So your kids and your wife will be putting you on the outside. And that will really suck."

Heat are you lost? They are in the States. They speak English there. The children will be speaking English and the wife will be speaking English and the office Christmas party will be in English.

"Now let’s address the name calling."

You mean where you called me a "rookie" or where you say I do not speak Spanish, or the under sided insult about being ignorant. No I suspect you won’t talk about those inaccuracies I called you on.

"First off it’s a liberal thing to call names."

Heat you have a history of doing just that.

"It’s a liberal thing to be stuck in the past with a failed program. Which you are doing now."

Specify my failure? What program are you referring to? The one that says do what you think is best for you and your wife its a personal decision? You don’t like such freedoms Heat?

"And it’s also a liberal thing to never admit you are wrong,(Really this is just a person thing.)

True, so add this to the list of what makes you a Liberal.

"But if you want to call me a libertarian then that would be fine."

How do you get Libertarian out of Liberal? I showed how Mr. Conservative thinks like a Liberal.

"But a guy like you who is a rookie should be willing to admit he’s wrong."

Again back to the name calling you say you abhor. While I am constantly learning I don’t accept your designation and told you so in my last post but you prefer to continue.

"Should be willing to be a little humble and not come off as a know it all."

I expressed my opinion and my observations that does not make me a "know it all." I’m not gong to bow down to your inaccurate statements and false labels.

"After all YOU are running a business. And people will judge you by your honesty."

"We are primarily judged by meeting the customer’s requirements. Once can be honest and incompetent such honesty won’t get you far in business. That’s your business lesson for the day.

"And I would think also by your ability to reason and use logic. Your argument fails the logic test."

Logic you can’t distinguish a right or wrong topic from a situation that can have different answers for different people. I asked you to explain my fathers long successful marriage and you ignored answering this question (another Liberal trait you have), using your logic they are in the "wrong."

"And you are not being honest about the need to learn the language. You are telling your clients what they want to hear."

Most men will make such determinations on their own I am rarely asked about this. I don’t tell my "clients what they want to hear" another wrong assumption that has no basis of support, but of course that doesn’t stop you from throwing them out. I get the feeling if I told you I liked Pizza and you didn’t you would say I am wrong and not honest for saying I like Pizza.  

"This is called marketing."
Its called Heat not understanding personal choice.

"School is over now Jamie……."
Thanks for the Liberal college advice. You failed to answer one question I asked nor did you apologize for your misstatements. Now how would you label such a person?

"And I want you to read basic business practices 101. The part about not digging a hole deeper and deeper."

You need to lay off the book of clichés 101. As a Liberal I’m sure it irks you to hear a counterview point. I don’t consider bringing up a different perspective as "digging a hole" nor am I in a hole because you disagree with me.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Heat You Still Don’t Get It, posted by Jamie on May 1, 2005

Dude,

You are a classic agency owner.  You are willing to say anything to make a sale.  

What's really sad is that you are so thick headed.  Unable to see that others might have more insight and knowledge about a subject than you.  

Maybe this says why you're living down in S.A. trying to squeeze a few pesos out of some gringos.

Good luck, you are going to need it.

... in response to I understand now., posted by Heat on May 2, 2005

Heat you are so predictable. I knew you didn’t have the intelligence to master a reasonable response. Unlike some of the guys you have bullied in the past I have no know qualms about exposing your faulty reasoning. You misspoke and you are not man enough to admit your mistake. And now you do what you do best when challenged you run. And you see the likes of which you run with, Jake.

“Maybe this says why you're living down in S.A. trying to squeeze a few pesos out of some gringos.”

Breaking New Heat I am in Colombia to make money. Is Mr. Conservative now anti-capitalism? Maybe my angle about you being a Liberal is true.

Thanks for the warm wishes but I make my own good luck and I am sorry you feel sad that we all can’t agree with your views on life it must be a real bummer to hear.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to So do I, posted by Jamie on May 2, 2005

So long.

... in response to I understand now., posted by Heat on May 2, 2005

Dude,

You are a classic agency owner. You are willing to say anything to make a sale.

What's really sad is that you are so thick headed. Unable to see that others might have more insight and knowledge about a subject than you.

Maybe this says why you're living down in S.A. trying to squeeze a few pesos out of some gringos.

Good luck, you are going to need it.

... in response to Jamie is wrong., posted by Heat on Apr 30, 2005

Heat on the subject of Spanish I sure feel it helps - and i speak it pretty good for a gringo but dont feel that it is essential. I did not speak any Spanish when I met my first Colombian novia and we spent two years together. Again, it is a huge help but not speaking the language is not an insurmountable obstacle that can't be overcome. If a gringo has an otherwise successful, busy life and wants a foreign relationship but does not speak the language or have the time to learn it – i would think to go for it  and workaround the language issue down the road. once his lady starts learning English, she may not want to talk to him in Spanish anyway

... in response to Jamie is wrong., posted by Heat on Apr 30, 2005

Jamie is dead wrong ........... No matter what country you travel to you are only being dissrespectful to that country. Even if you only a attempt a few words or phrases you will be much better off. I can remember one of my earlier trips I learned to say " it is a pleasure to meet your parents" that meant a lot to the lady I was seeing at the time . To show that I was making a effort ... My lady now is speaking more english that I am portuguese to her and does bother me a little ..it shows she is trying harder than me ... ... It is a must if you choose to have a latin wife or lady you Should learn to speak her language out of respect .... not laziness      

... in response to Jamie is wrong., posted by Heat on Apr 30, 2005

Heat this is not a right or wrong stance. As a proponent of self responsibility and respect for individual choices how can you say it is wrong for a man to decide not to learn Spanish? Has your philosophy now changed and you want to be the judge of right and wrong between couples?

I have made if very clear that I am learning Spanish why do you continue to say I do "not speak Spanish?" I speak Spanish every day. You live hundreds of miles away do you not? Where do you come off saying something that is not true? Regardless, my position does not change because of languages I may know. My position is based on my personal experience and success and my personal involvement in many more start up relationships then you have been involved with. My experience in this mater exceeds yours Heat. I see on a repeated basis that not speaking Spanish is not a hindrance in ones success in finding a good Latin bride. How can you dispute my ongoing, first-hand professional knowledge in this mater?

"When he says he will help you sort out the players from the real women..."

Heat I have never said anything like this. International Introductions makes it very clear in black and white that we do not screen the women we only offer our observations and opinions.

From the Website:
"Discovering ones content and character is a communication process best found by regular letter writing and conversations. We therefore leave the screening up to you,..."

From the Website:
"Even though the responsibility and decision of who you select for your Latin American bride is solely yours, International Introductions will inform our clients of anything we see that is of concern or interest to the health and long-term viability of your relationship."

We leave it to adults to make the decisions of what is in their best interest even if we feel it may not be. Because unlike you, we don’t dictate what is right and wrong for a couple to do in their relationship.

"...you have to remember he's needs a translator too."

Heat International Introductions is not just Jamie I have a trained staff that doesn’t need a translator in their assessment, guidance and help of others.

"You are buying his opinion on a matter that he himself is a rookie in. Marriage to a latina."
 
Call me as you like Heat. I’ve been with the same beautiful, Latina woman for 3 ½ years. I’ve live in Colombia for over a year. I’ve lived in Southern California for many years and dated and lived with a variety of Latin women. I have the largest agency in Barranquilla in just 2 years that is growing and profitable but all this just makes me a rookie.

Heat you sound like a latent liberal. First you label personal preferences between adults that have no bearing on you as "wrong" (typical liberal interference into private lives).

Second you express information that is not correct (just like the liberal press).

Third you push an arrogant "I know what’s better for you than you do attitude" (the essence of liberalism).

"That said at least Jamie is honest about his lack of time and experience in South America. He seems honest but he is very new at what he does. Again he a least is open about what he does not know."

Thanks for the complement Heat, you could have saved some words and just called me ignorant, typical patronizing liberal language, not direct but insulting.

Heat by dad has been happily married to my mom a foreign bride for almost 50 years and does not speak her mother’s tongue. How would you explain that success Heat, an accident?

I agree live has no short cuts, but neither is experience measured in years.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

Stay tuned for Heat’s socialist evolution where he mandates all Gringos must learn Spanish.

... in response to Heat's Liberal Mentality , posted by Jamie on Apr 30, 2005

I think it should be a mandate!!!!!!!!  At least those persuing a latin bride...
very good Jamie!!

... in response to Heat's Liberal Mentality , posted by Jamie on Apr 30, 2005

Wow you are really an emotional type person huh?   Try taking a few breaths and think.

Jamie be real.  You know that you are a very basic level Spanish Speaker.  You need a translator to talk to the girls.  Your clients say so. What I can not understand is why after three years you are still speaking basic Spanish.   You know I’m right.  What I really can not understand is why you want to debate this issue.
You lose every time.

Now if you want to sell the idea that you can marry a women who you DO NOT KNOW then go right ahead.   But the smart money here says you are wrong.

If you can not understand the hopes, dreams and desires of someone how can you know them.? And when she comes 1000 plus miles to live in a strange land and culture she will be stressed out.  So will you be there for here? To calm her?  To understand her fears and needs.?  No you will be grunting  something in caveman talk.  And she will be empty inside.  That will surface later.

And when she enters the workforce and she is approached by  “Jose” the Cuban with the nice new car and house who offers her the world what will she do?  Will she stay with you who has never even tried to learn her language and culture or will she go with “Jose” who can  talk to her ?  Jose who listens to her every  desires and need?   The temptation will be to be with someone who is able to communicate with her.
You had better measure up or you might lose her.

Not learning Spanish is a time bomb.   And it will effect your marriage.   You will be on the outside of all social events and happenings.  You kids may speak it and you do not.  So your kids and your wife will be putting you on the  outside.  And that will really suck.

Now let’s address the name calling.

First off it’s a liberal thing to call names.  As you have done.  It’s a liberal thing to be stuck in the past with a failed program.  Which you are doing now.  And it’s also a liberal thing to never admit you are wrong,
(Really this is just a person thing.)  

But if you want to call me a libertarian then that would be fine. I am Libertarian.

But a guy like you who is a rookie should be willing to admit he’s wrong.  Should be willing to be a little humble and not come off as a know it all.   After all YOU are running a business.   And people will judge you by your honesty.  And I would think also by your ability to reason and use logic.
Your argument fails the logic test.  

And you are not being honest about the need to learn the language.
You are telling your clients what they want to hear.  This is called marketing.
So have at it amigo. But don’t piss us  and tell us it raining.

This business is full of hustlers and flam flam  guys trying to be something they are not.
What separates the good guys from the bad guys is honesty.  And I’ve seen many people come and go around here.   But there are simple truths in play here.  And you had better pay attention.

Is learning Spanish a %100 percent necessity?  No is it VERY important?  Yes.
Are you at a great disadvantage if you do not speak it?  Yes.

That is a fact.  Learn it, live it, love it.

School is over now Jamie……. you can go back  to studying Spanish.

But you will get no candy  at break time because you have still have not learned basic Spanish.

And I want you to read basic business practices 101.  The part about not digging a hole deeper and deeper.

... in response to Jamie goes back to school...., posted by Heat on May 1, 2005

Heat, it's too bad more guys don't realize this...of course, how can they when they can't communicate with the women???
Plus, I'm always suspicious of guys who marry Colombianas, and are afraid to bring them here to the states to live, for fear of losing them to Jose the Cubano.

... in response to Re: Jamie goes back to school...., posted by beenthere on May 2, 2005

“they can't communicate with the women???

They communicate in English, did you forget this?

This is what mandatory bilingualism has done to America; English is now the forgotten language.

Plus, I'm always suspicious of guys who marry Colombianas, and are afraid to bring them here to the states to live, for fear of losing them to Jose the Cubano.

I’m always suspicious of guys who anonymously throw out indirect references without facts.

Clarify what you mean? I’m sure many would love to hear your theory.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Beenthere lets here your theory, posted by Jamie on May 2, 2005

I don't need facts to be suspicious...

Jamie, you have way too much time on your hands...

... in response to what part of my post didn't you understa..., posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jamie]

Sorry I meant evasive.

"I don't need facts to be suspicious... "

Of course not and one does not need intelligence to talk, so you speak. There are quite a few members on this board that live in Colombia why do you coward from telling us your suspicions... the ones that will be void of facts.

"Jamie, you have way too much time on your hands..."

The reality is I have very little time on my hand, but I do have the luxury to choose how I use my time.

Engage the Exotic-Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to The invasive part, posted by Jamie on May 3, 2005

then I'm very flattered you choose to spend your valuable time on me, especially my posting history..

... in response to Re: The invasive part, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005

"then I'm very flattered you choose to spend your valuable time on me, especially my posting history.. "

You are very welcome I am flattered you would be flattered by someone showing others your unflattering posting history.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Jamie goes back to school...., posted by Heat on May 1, 2005

Heat , I wished I could have said all that . very well put ........ and Jamie is telling me that he running a honest business ...

... in response to Re: Jamie goes back to school...., posted by Jake on May 1, 2005

He might be honest.   I would guess that he is.

I don't know him but would give him the benefit of the doubt.  He might even be a nice guy.

I have no knowledge of his business practices.
But people have said good things about him here.

And other agency owners have said nasty things.  But I would take what they say with a lot of salt.

Bottom line....He is just selling a product.  

But he can't bullshit everybody about not learning Spanish and not get called for it.

... in response to Jamie is wrong., posted by Heat on Apr 30, 2005

I want to know EXACTLY what is going on with my wife and if I can't speak Spanish how can I know that? I would hate to have her talking on the phone with family and friends and not have any idea what she's saying. Good way to become paranoid.

... in response to You got that right, posted by utopiacowboy on Apr 30, 2005

Very good point!!

... in response to You got that right, posted by utopiacowboy on Apr 30, 2005

You have to be at least trying to learn some Spanish.
Go through the Pimsleur audio course. It really helps.

It's an ongoing process for me. I'm not naturally gifted at languages.

Every now and then I watch a few minutes of one of the telenovelas. It's really cool when I catch a sentence or phrase. Still, it's a struggle.

... in response to Re: You got that right, posted by Avispa on Apr 30, 2005

[This message has been edited by utopiacowboy]

Actually my wife and I communicate exclusively in Spanish since she speaks almost no English. I can understand almost everything my wife says to me and she says she speaks to me just the way she would speak to anyone whose native language was Spanish. I am not quite fluent but I can say anything I want to say and I can joke with her etc. In fact we usually have a lot of pillow talk and converse long and often. I can speak to her family on the phone without any problems. I can't imagine what life would be like if I could NOT speak Spanish.

... in response to Re: Re: You got that right, posted by utopiacowboy on Apr 30, 2005

Ditto almost every sentence Utopiacowboy said, except where he said 'not quite fluent', I rate myself an 8 or 8.5 on a 1 to 10. Granted, it is not my mother language, but I've been doing it for over 30 years now. 30 years? And you only give yourself an 8.5? Yes, because I know enough to know that I do NOT know everything, unlike some people who claim to be 'fluent' but wind up eating fried mushrooms when they thought they had ordered shrimp. (No, that's not a dig at U.C. personally, nor any particular person here, just that we've all known somebody like that, right?)

To the guys who are 'making the trip' with little or no Spanish, my hat's off to you for your grit. Even though (my opnion, anyway) it's going to be a lot harder than the 'Hey, not a problem' crowd is leading you to believe, I don't think that that you are 'doomed to failure' either....at least not in the early stages. Now, after the early stages, Utopiacowboy has raised some excelet points...it shows respect for your wife's culture, which translates (no pun intented) into respect for her and her family, reasures her that she's not the only one doing 'ALL the adjusting' and a host of other good and necessary  things. God forbid, but what if she were sick or injured? How will you inform her family if you can't speak Spanish on the telephone? Or on a happier note, wish your mother-in-law a happy birthday?

So, the 'Is Spanish Necessary' question is still an enigma....some people take this road, some people take that road...hopefuly all will end up in the Emerald City.

My personal opinion (let me stress the word 'opinion') is: 1) Better to know Spanish before you go. 2 )If you don't know Spanish, better to go than stay home. 3) Just because you make a trip or two and get back alive doesn't mean that you're off the hook and shouldn't ever learn Spanish, especially if you bring a lady back with you.  4) One big downside to speaking Spanish (and I'll plead guilty to this charge myself) is it really does slow down your wife's learning English unless you are extreemly careful about 'forcing' her (gently, of course) to learn.

... in response to Re: Re: You got that right, posted by utopiacowboy on Apr 30, 2005

Yes but you have also indicated your Spanish has delayed your wife’s progress in English.
We are all happy with your success and thankful for all the insight you give us.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Re: Re: Re: You got that right, posted by Jamie on Apr 30, 2005

What is going to get her to speak English is not me but the fact that her three kids are so proficient in English that they are even starting to speak it to each other. That plus the fact that once she has her green card in a few short weeks, she will be able to work. She knows a lot of English - she just isn't in a situation where she has to use it. Actually by now I kind of like speaking Spanish with her and I doubt that will change even once she can speak good English.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: You got that right, posted by utopiacowboy on May 1, 2005

Hey Cowboy!  I was a little confused at first with your post... in a previous post you wrote: "Actually my wife and I communicate exclusively in Spanish since she speaks almost no English". But in this message you said that she knows alot of English but just is not in a situation where she has to use it?  Do you mean that she is more comfortable with her Spanish and in turn she is helping you out enabling you to learn Spanish more quickly by using it?   As far as her children learning English, from what I have learned it seems that often when there are children involved it tends to make the learning process easier for the latin woman (mother) because not only does she have someone to practice and grow with in her learning (the children) I feel that they are even more inspired because being a loving mother she would want what is best for her children and having them learn more than one language will leave them obviously in a better position in the world.  The "experts" say that the normal process of the various stages of brain development for children in general has it more favorable/easiest to learn before the child reaches age 12.   Sure we can learn a new language at any age but it has a natural tendency to be easier during the younger years.

... in response to Re: Re:Re: You got that right, posted by MarkNJ on May 1, 2005

The strange thing about my wife is that she does know a LOT of English grammar (much more than I know Spanish grammar) and she has a pretty good vocabulary. Her problem is she does not speak - she does not practice - she doesn't use it. I speak Spanish all the time so much so that I can kind of switch in my head from thinking in English to thinking in Spanish depending on who I am with. At home with her on the weekeends and at night, I just switch to Spanish. She could speak more English than she does - with other people she is able to make herself understood but she doesn't have a lot of patience with herself. You do have to be patient and willing to make mistakes. I must admit that if we were to try to communicate in English at this point it would be a very slow and somewhat tedious type of communication. Having said that I do throw in English phrases and sometimes say things first in English and then in Spanish.

... in response to Re: Re: Re:Re: You got that right, posted by utopiacowboy on May 1, 2005

fear of making mistakes and of what others might think will prevent you from doing things, i think that bilingual conversations are helpful and by throwing in english phrases with spanish ones you both will benefit, i have no doubt that very soon your wife will be speaking english fluently, you are an excellent example of how this should be done.