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[This message has been edited by jim c]

Hi Blue light shoppers.

As my former novia said to me once " Americans think they are buying furniture when they date Calanas"  I find this to be as pertinant now as it was five years ago. I really hate to rain on anyones parade(LIE).

BUUUT, Stupid is as stupid does!!!

One must observe, that anyone who becomes legally involved with someone who they cannot communicate with, is akin to buying the brooklyn bridge from a russian dwarf in uraguay who speaks only Polish and you don't.

I understand the dynamics of loneliness and depression. But I also understand hard headed, selfish, self centered arrogance.

To think that someones thoughts, aspirations and beliefs are not worth knowing  is part of the sales patois of some in the agency business. Most will deny it of course, but if you listen, you will hear, it dosn't matter-she will learn to love YOU, she will learn english, she will be loyal and true.

WHY because you are a gringo and she will say yes to you ?

   Gee does a statement indicating that understanding anothers native tongue is not important, rub you the wrong way, irritate you?

Well maybe you are actually interested in your loves needs and not in arm candy, bubble butts, atheletic sex and keeping her locked in a closet.
Congratulations, you may be qualified to be an adult. The real question then becomes, will you put in the effort to discover who she is.

I have continued to harp on this point for over three years here. How often must I say that intelligent men want relatioships with a woman not a body. The fact that  after all this time I have not found the right one, is to me a testiment of not wanting to settle for less than a soulmate. But if you want a bridge I have a short friend.
PS for those who wish to finally see what the grump looks like, I have installed a profile on my site esamor.com under jimc.

... in response to buying furniture , posted by jim c on May 1, 2005

"I have continued to harp on this point for over three years here."

Hmmm...for some reason I have never captured the essence of your posts until now.

Having said that, I agree with you.

... in response to buying furniture , posted by jim c on May 1, 2005

Jim,
I had heard the process compared to picking out a puppy.They are all cute and will love you to death so just pick one you like.Works with puppies.Not so well with women unless you get real lucky.
ALMOST NO  relationships between gringos or other non native spanish speakers and latinas have great communication.Its just VERY RARE for either person to be fluent in the others language.I know only 2 guys I have met in this process who I consider speak good spanish that are not native speakers.And they would admit they are less than fluent.
So it is the NORM to marry or get involved with someone where the communication is less than perfect and probably not even very good.Its just reality and a big potential problem in these relationships.
So the question is how little communication and what problems does it present?
The first issue is knowing or knowing the intention of the other person.For sure you will not know them well but you might be able to know their intention.Relationshipsare EMOTIONAL things and when the emotions are REALLY right you tell.Of course its very possible to think they are right.BUT,if the person seems to be crazy about you you can be pretty sure the emotional commitment is right.
Of course there are all kinds of other issues and expectations that can come up.Particularly if the relationship involves amove top the US for instance.Her world will be turned upside down and she might have had little idea what she was getting in to.And if you can't talk about it that can make it worse.Issues like the weather are important,BUT let me say if she leaves you over the weather you didn't have much going for you.
So whats the point?Most of us in this endeavor are accepting something less than good communication as part of the deal and it can be a huge risk.BUT,I think if the relationship is right for BOTH people it will survive the communication issues and thrive.
Of course spanish is important.And english for her if she will be headed to the states.I don't mean to deny that,just say that its a potential problem even if someone studies and gets to abasic level of
using the language.
Lets see,of the original California group,the 4 couples who are still together the husband spoke some spanish,more than the wives english going in.One guy was a native speaker.So just looking at that you could conclude the guy speaking some spanish was helpfull if not essential.But only one guy spoke well enough to say he trully understood the other person.
Its a crap shoot.As one guy here says even if you speak pretty good spanish and spend maybe 3 weeks with her 5 or 6 times in a couple of years its still risky taking her to the states.Luck could be as important as anything here.
AND,offsetting the language issues there may be cultural issues working for you,like respect for the man and feeling a man  is neccesary for a good life.

Pete

... in response to buying furniture , posted by jim c on May 1, 2005

I’ve always respected you wise words. When I first started reading this forum and became familiar with your thoughts I always anticipating reading your post. When I saw Jim C I knew I was in for an intelligent perspective. Over the years this has not changed. You make many sound points most of which I not only agree with but promote. But on to what I may dispute.

"Gee does a statement indicating that understanding anothers native tongue is not important, rub you the wrong way, irritate you?"

Jim is this a mistake? Did you mean to say this without the "not"?:

Gee does a statement indicating that understanding anothers native tongue is important, rub you the wrong way, irritate you?

... in response to Hello Jim, posted by Jamie on May 1, 2005

Damn Jamie, can you make ONE post where you don't criticize???  For someone whose sole purpose on this site SHOULD be to promote his agency, for some reason you have taken another road (much lower)...
I have read some posts on this site, posted by some of your disgruntled customers, who have painted you in a not so flattering way...I have bided my time before making a decision as to whether they are justified, or if they just have sour grapes.  I can now see that, yes, they probably have a valid axe to grind with you...
If I'm ever in BAQ, your agency definitely won't be on my list for a visit.
You have stated that your agency is profitable.  If that is the case, keep posting here on PL, and that will quickly change.

... in response to Re: Hello Jim, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005


Beenthere,

Jamie did a good job of responding to your critical comments but I would like to make a few comments.  I don't know where you started reading these exchanges but Jamie never came across as critizing others nor has he had any customers give negative comments.  Quite the contrary, L4W comes to mind, who is currently using I-I and is pleased with their services.  Mudd is another poster who has recommended this agency.

What you misinterpret as criticism from Jamie actually started out as an exchange of ideas and opinion concerning whether or not a gringo needed to learn Spanish if he was bringing his wife/bride-to-be to the US.  

Some posters who replied made this a personal issue because of a difference of opinion on the subject while another poster attacked Jamie's agency simply because he was an agency owner stemming from a bad experience with another agency (one agency is bad so they all must be bad mentality).  I might add none of these critical posts came from any of his customers nor do they know Jamie.

When the differing viewpoints led to personal attacks directed at Jamie or his agency, Jamie naturally defended himself and I might add, quite eloquently.

I think most readers would agree that Jamie came out smelling more the rose after these discussions than the few critical objectors.  I actually enjoyed Jamie's well thought out replies and respect him and his agency.  

The case should be closed by now, as the verdict came in a long time ago.

... in response to Re: Re: Hello Jim, posted by pablo on May 3, 2005

[This message has been edited by beenthere]

I stand by my post...you listed 2 satisfied customers...better dig deeper pablo.  Jamie is a smart ass, just read his responses to my posts.  He has insulted more than a few posters here...if you want to play the name game, let's see...myself, Jake, Heat, JimC, papi, Gary Bala just to name a few.  If I was an agency owner, I'd kiss everyone's ass on this board, regardless if they attacked me...that's business 101...just as I kiss all of my customer's asses, as well as any potential customers' asses.
Of course, you knowing me pablo, I don't need an agency in BAQ, but I might have some friends who do...

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Hello Jim, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005

Jamie can attack , insult me and do what ever wants ... I just look at he source and could care less .... he is just " another owner " nothing special about him or his agencie ...

the Jake the SNAKE

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Hello Jim, posted by Jake on May 3, 2005


Snakeman,

O ye who speak with fork tongue, tanquilo, no mas por favor.  I don't know what agency put that bug deep up yer arse but give it a rest why dont'cha?  It seems really odd to me that you care to give very little information about the agency you had such a bad experience with yet act as if Jamie was somehow responsible or associated with them.  Could it be also be that you now have a grudge against Jamie for his calling your bluff on your accusations?  Best stop before you get defanged.  You ran out of venom and credibility a long time ago.  Psssst!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Hello Jim, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005


Think what you want, but I don't consider Jamie a "smart ass" and I've been reading his posts ever since he came on this and other discussion forums.  If more agency owners took an active interest on the forums as Jamie does, it would make for a more useful and at times, a more lively forum.  Most agency owners are too afraid to post on discussion forums because as I've pointed out, some posters are very critical for one reason or another.

Since you brought up names, you threw the first stone in your exchange with Jamie and I might add, based on a misperception of the facts.  Stand by your post if you want but that is the way I saw it and I'm sure many others did as well.  

The other group of individuals you list are those that I was referring to in my earlier post...attacking Jamie and his agency on his opinion regarding the importance of a guy learning Spanish if his wife/fiancée would be living in the US.  I can't recall any exchanges between Gary B and Jamie as you claim and would highly doubt if they exist.  Regarding Jamies post to Jim C, he was merely asking for a clarification on a comment that Jim had made.  I asked myself the same question when I read Jim's post.

Let me tell you I have been in a successful customer based business for 16 years and firmly believe that the "customer is always right".  Any business needs to excel in customer service to earn business, repeat business and referrals but don't confuse that with not standing up to personal attacks.  I would not want an agency owner "kissing my ass" or other's on this forum.  I much rather respect a guy to discuss a viewpoint intellectually and holding his ground against a few guys making cheap shots at his opinion or his agency.  

What is more of an issue IMO are the guys that not are men enough to apologize.  This is all I will say on the subject as enough has been said now.  Flame away.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Hello Jim, posted by pablo on May 3, 2005

well, I have a right to my opinion, and if I think he's a smart ass, then in my mind he is...
any problem with that Pablo???

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hello Jim, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005


No problem at all.  As I said, think what you want.

Regards.

... in response to Re: Hello Jim, posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005

"Damn Jamie, can you make ONE post where you don't criticize??? For someone whose sole purpose on this site SHOULD be to promote his agency, for some reason you have taken another road (much lower)..."

Beenthere, my purpose is not to promote my agency. Why "SHOULD" this be my purpose? I am here to learn and exchange information and opinions like everyone else why would you object to that? If my intent was to sell I would be agreeable with everyone and stay away from the hot topics so I wouldn’t offend anyone, clearly that is not my objective.
Above people are providing their pros and cons for having a pre-nup, I guess from your book of fiction we should only agree with your preference on the mater and those that disagree are just wrong and critical of others for doing so.

"I have read some posts on this site, posted by some of your disgruntled customers, who have painted you in a not so flattering way...I have bided my time before making a decision as to whether they are justified, or if they just have sour grapes. I can now see that, yes, they probably have a valid axe to grind with you..."

Please list those "disgruntled customers" and their "valid axe to grind"? I won’t expect a list because as you noted "facts" are not part of your evaluation process. But could you just make one exception and provide a factual list? I see from your past postings you have said some very strong, negative stuff about other agencies but you fail to provide any details. I guess it’s that "facts" issue getting in the way again.

"If I'm ever in BAQ, your agency definitely won't be on my list for a visit."

Your loss.

"You have stated that your agency is profitable. If that is the case, keep posting here on PL, and that will quickly change."

I’ve been posting here ever since I’ve been in business and joined a few months after you joined this forum. But to be honest I don’t really recall who you are. So to refresh myself I viewed some of your recent posts. For a man who does not like those that criticize (which by your definition is anyone who disagrees with you) you certainly have an extensive history of doing so. Below are only some of your recent quotes towards other memebers:

"desperate man"
gee this sounds like criticism.

"Typical behavior of sour grapes"
ummm more criticism

"Jack, Ben, and Mudd all need to open their eyes to the realities"
 
At least you are consistent you criticize everyone that you don’t agree with.

"Ph.d's come a dime a dozen"

It’s real easy to negate others accomplishments you seem to have fun doing this.

"think you're a piece of caca"

and your sophisticated.

"there evidently aren't too many reasonably intelligent people on this board"

Here you insult almost everyone.

"YOU are your own worst enemy"

I’m seeing a theme here, more criticism.

"most guys don't have a clue if the woman is 100% in love with them.......they are so blind that they can't see the red flags,"

This is right up your alley across the board criticism. How insulting, most men can’t even determine if the woman they love loves them back. I strongly disagree with this, but I better be quite because that would be judged by you as criticism of your criticism and I am not sure what kind of penalty would incur for that.

"if you don't like me or what I post, just don't click on and open any of my posts, it's very simple."

Can your practice what you preach?

".......sorry if you don't have any principles & I'm glad you don't like me......would never want to be associated with a wimp like you"

No your not one to criticize anyone.

“world sex guide forum”

I see why you wouldn’t be a customer of mine my clients would not partake is such forums. And you have the gall to criticizing someone else for their "principles".

I make many post without criticizing but since you already indicated you don’t need “facts” you’ll just keep coming up with wrong conclusions and blatant lies and as history shows more criticism.

Engage the Exotic-Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to I am being shadowed by a hypocrite , posted by Jamie on May 3, 2005

Jamie

For the record I think guys would be served well to learn spanish if they are going to marry a spanish speaking women. It just makes the relationship and the way the two of you interact so much more enjoyable IMHO. I'm speaking from my personal experiances from when I spoke next to nothing in spanish and now. I'm not prepared to insult you for your point of view.

But I would be surprised that if you had the experiance of being in Colombia and being able to speak spanish fairly well that you wouldn't change your mind. Is it absolutely necessary, no but it is well worth the effort in my book to learn some spanish.

Now where are my quotes? hehehe!!

I know you have them saved somewhere incase we have an arguement;-)

... in response to Re: I am being shadowed by a hypocrite , posted by Calipro on May 4, 2005

"I'm not prepared to insult you for your point of view."

Well that distinguishes you from the few others who want to hammer their beliefs with insults. You know how it works it’s their belief so it has to be right.

"But I would be surprised that if you had the experiance of being in Colombia and being able to speak spanish fairly well that you wouldn't change your mind. Is it absolutely necessary, no but it is well worth the effort in my book to learn some spanish."

That may one day be the case. But I never disputed the added benefits in speaking Spanish. I was not only stating my opinion which is fine for others to disagree with but my observations of others not being hindered by a lack of Spanish in their search or in the early stages of their relationship which is the stronger evidence. I have not been around to know if any long term consequences would develop but I don’t see why if the girl is progressing in English.
I have seen many things in this business that I would not of predicated that were opposite of what I believed coming in. But my views change based on counter evidence. How many people here ever change an opinion or even admit they made a mistake when the evidence is in bold black and white that they were wrong, very few. Such men in my eyes are weak. Their egos are so fragile that to admit a mistake would tarnish their own self esteem. They would rather hide from their own bad behavior. They defend until the truth overwhelms them into melting away with a futile face saving gesture. If I change an opinion or stand corrected the party contributing to this change has made me a better man, he has improved me and I am grateful for such help. But the bombast I debated do not want such improvements they would rather dictate, pronounce, lie and twist rather then learn and exchange. I’ve read many of your debates and you are not in their camp but I have seen you run into the likes of such sad individuals.

“Now where are my quotes? hehehe!!”

You are all ready enshrined for your best quote, which I agree with, but I would never go around and tell someone else they are wrong if they choose not to follow it. They will be able to determine if they were wrong or right at a later date, will they not.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to I am being shadowed by a hypocrite , posted by Jamie on May 3, 2005

[This message has been edited by beenthere]

Instead of researching everyone's posting history as a reply to their posts, maybe spending that time in some Spanish classes would be of more use to you...
As I posted earlier, Jamie, you have way too much time on your hands...and as I posted below, I am very flattered that you spend your "valuable" time researching my posting history...

... in response to Re: I am being shadowed by a hypocrite , posted by beenthere on May 3, 2005

"Instead of researching everyone's posting history as a reply to their posts, maybe spending that time in some Spanish classes would be of more use to you..."

Well it would certainly fit in with your mandated that we all speak Spanish if we want a Latin bride.

"I am very flattered that you spend your "valuable" time researching my posting history..."

Most would be embarrassed by having such post.  Unlike you, I like to know my facts; truth carries great value to me. Anyway as I predicted you couldn’t back up anything you said. And from looking at your profile you post much more then I do but you claim I am the one with too much time on my hands. How funny.

Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

... in response to Re: Re: I am being shadowed by a hypocri..., posted by Jamie on May 3, 2005


Classic Jamie, you gotta love it.

... in response to buying furniture , posted by jim c on May 1, 2005

Jim,

Thanks for the informative post.  I have seen the type of women you hang with.  Real women.  Women who are not only nice to look at but women who are educated and have class.

How can you get this kind of girl?  You dance mean Salsa for one,
(also very important!)

And you have taken the time to learn to speak to them.

That's why you have been able to attract the kind of women who most men only dream of dating.