Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela

[valleydude]

You metioned in the post below that you were thinking of concentrating on Venezuela. I was going to ask for an email, but thought I would post it here.

I don't really know where to begin. In the end I had a falling out with the girl, but I'll give a perspective without that interfering.

Keep in mind, this is only where I visited. I had a short stop in Caracas and then spent 10 days in Maracaibo, followed up by another 5. This was in September, and November 2004.

(I began writting this but it was getting long so I broke it up into posts. just pick a subject haha!)

V-Dude

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by valleydude on Feb 21, 2005

THANK YOU for the time you took to right this.  Very informative and helpful.  Thanks again.

And, well, good luck in your search.

[doombug]

... in response to Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by valleydude on Feb 21, 2005

Great stuff!

All the while I was reading your post(s), I was thinking how OVER-HYPED some of these places are by people/businesses with an interest.

Checked out LonelyPlanet to get an idea of the racial make-up of some of these women.  Found it somewhat interesting:

Venezuela:  67% mestizo, 21% European descent, 10% African descent, 2% indigenous.

GDP per capita: US$8,500

Peru, my wife's home country:  54% Indian, 32% Mestizo (mixed European and Indian descent), 12% Spanish descent, 2% other

GDP per capita: US$2,060

Colombia (a popular spot here):  58% mestizo (of European-Indian descent), 20% European descent, 14% mulatto (African-European descent), 4% African descent, 3% African-Indian descent, 1% indigenous

GDP per capita: US$1,820

Brazil:  55% European descent, 38% mulatto, 6% African descent, 1% other. (In reality, these figures are skewed by whiteness being equated with social stature in Brazil.) [Not my comment.  Courtesy of LP]

GDP per capita: US$7,600

Argentina:  85% European descent, 15% mestizo, Indian and other minorities

GDP per capita: US$10,500

Chile:  95% European descent & mestizo, 5% Indian

GDP per capita: US$10,100

Chile and Argentina are practically the equivalent of Eastern European states; only, stranded near the bottom of the world!

As I was copying/pasting this data, I couldn't help but notice something.  Many of these countries we are more averse to (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, at el.) have much higher GDP and Mestizo/Euro-descent populaces.

It's been discussed here and elsewhere before, but that "pride" you mentioned might be just their way of saying "We are not desperate for your money, or exit papers."   Similar comparisons can be made in Asia:  Women in Japan, Hong Kong, and S. Korea are--for the most part--unimpressed by male "extranjeros," like us.  Yet, in those countries were women face tougher economic conditions (Rural China, Thailand, the Phillipines, etc.), approachability and interaction is a lot more simple to initiate.

[valleydude]

... in response to Re: Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by doombug on Feb 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by valleydude]

Yeah these are some good stats. Really interesting too.

I'm not sure about the other places, but tax in Venezuela can put a bite on things if you have no cash. It was like 18% and everything was taxed. Flip!

My next get away is off to Peru, but I have recently started talking to a girl from Argentina. She looked rather, well "white" so to say and this kind of explains it. She is pretty killer too, but I would need something more to swing me away from Peru at this moment.

My experience with them about moving here:

This girls Mom and Dad were well off down there. They are doctors, have two homes and like 4 cars. With this whole Chavez thing they are freaking out and Mom wants to go off to Costa Rica and Dad wants to hold down the fort. I said why don't you come here? (They have family here)

Their answer was that they just can not live how they do down there. They said, sure we could live with our family but only for a couple of years. I said well in a couple of years you could have jobs, but they just want to retire and live in peace. They want no more struggling and I kind of don't blame them. Dad doesn't want to be the doctor turned janitor and Mom doesn't want to go back to work.

I'm typed out from these posts, so I am going to end on that note.

Have Fun!

V-Dude

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re: Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by doombug on Feb 21, 2005

Well, it's all relative.  Eastern Europe has an even higher ratio of Euro descent to mestizos and indians...

[Onephd]

... in response to Re: Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by doombug on Feb 21, 2005

Great stats.

One could also notice the fact that the more eurpean a country is, the better off the country is and the less likely they are impressed by Gringos.  

My limited experience has demonstrated to me that those from the bottom of the Map(more european) are less impressed(and afraid) by(of living in) the US.  

The bottom line is this I think. It does go back to Money to a certain extent.

The USA is a difficult country to live in if you are a foreigner. If you have decent moneyin a SA country, then you are better off there as when you arrive here, you have nothing and money here does not equate to power and privlege(except for those with enormous amounts of money).  

If you have ever met a person that had money in SA and was living here in the US, it is an interesting thing as some will rant and rave about what they had back in their country while they struggle here.  The Colombians that return to the Colombia are usually the more professional ones that that had great jobs and maids, and power in their home country but here they only had their jobs and lacked the power and respect they had before.  I read an article about the number of Colombians returning home and it was interesting that those that were were those who were professionals in Colombia.  Can you blame them.  I would never consider living in Colombia now as my standard of living here is fantastic and no job in Colombia would give me the same freedoms, money and ability to help myself and my family as the job I have here.   those that live in the more economically advantaged countries face the same issue.

Anyway, its a strange thing.  I don't have time to day to develop an good understandable opinion on this point, but the stats are interesting and one can interpret many things from them.

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re: Re: Thunderbolt... My take on Venezu..., posted by Onephd on Feb 21, 2005

What exactly do you mean by the US being difficult to live in?  Certainly, if someone moves to another country, does not know the language or customs, he will have to go through difficult times in that sense.  And yes, US does have its problems and difficulties, unemployment, crime, etc.

But here is the breakdown on the DIFFICULT country to live in...  In Moscow an average salary is about $200 a month (some jobs make less: teachers, policemen for example make less than $100).  Rent of an average one-bedroom apt on average is about $300 a month (more for a bigger apt).  Plus, you need money for food, public transport, electricity, etc.  You might even have a kid who wants milk and some sort of food...  Hell, he even might need some clothes.  (In which case you will be in competition with the rest of your family for clothes from his older cousin that are still wearable.)  Well, I assume, you get the picture.  And I am talking of people who have a job, and a job that pays an average salary to top that.  There are people who are unemployeed, retired (and I must add that the former 'pro-western' government cheated them of their savings), sick, etc.  If you have visited LA or FSU, I am sure you have noticed a lot of people there who might believe that living in their Colombia for them might be difficult as well (and if they had an opportunity to relocate to the north, all things being equal, they will have done it yesterday).

Yes, if you are from a wealthy family, have education, job in an established business (as in the type where you have contacts with the government and all the assistance that these can give you), or a job in a foreign company, or if you are a lawyer or doctor servicing the above, your life could be quite peachy indeed.

The reason why people from all over the world seek to live in America is precisely b/c it is an incredibly EASY country to live in, even if you don't belong to a priveleged class.

[OkieMan]

... in response to US is a DIFFICULT country to live in?..., posted by thunderbolt on Feb 21, 2005

Well, what it boils down to is that none of the countries you mentioned have a viable middle class.  It is definitely the rich against the poor situation. (Class warfare)  All of this is above and beyond the fact of graft and corruption,etc.  The landed gentry has always had it much better in these countries; while the "peasant" class has to live in grinding poverty, at least in many cases.  So, as bad as America is, in certain ways; she is still the Best of the Best, the Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave, etc.  God Bless America!

                             OkieMan

[Onephd]

... in response to US is a DIFFICULT country to live in?..., posted by thunderbolt on Feb 21, 2005

When I said the US was a difficult place to live, I meant exactly what you said, if you don't speak the language, don't buy into the system,  etc and also, if you were a person of means in your country, then it is difficult to live here since you probably wont be (a person of great means) here (especially if you don't adapt). That's all what I meant.  I wasn't bashing the US or anything.  I'm talking especially about those that belong to the privileged class in their own country.

I agree that the US is a good place and easy place to live especially when one buys into the systyem.

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.  I wasn't bashing the US.

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re: US is a DIFFICULT country to live in..., posted by Onephd on Feb 21, 2005

You didn't ruffle anything, and I guess I misunderstood, and expressed disagreement.  And actually I agree with your point, now that you clarified.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Thunderbolt... My take on Venezu..., posted by Onephd on Feb 21, 2005

Onephd,

What your talking about is basically the old "little fish in a big pond, or big fish in a little pond" idea.  It certainly does depend on where someone is on the economic scale.

                              OkieMan

[valleydude]

... in response to Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by valleydude on Feb 21, 2005

All in all it was a really good experience. How can I say this if this has some negativity and the relationship not working out? Basically I am a pretty simple guy. I had a lot of fun with the girl I was with, and I am happy seeing new places regardless of conditions. Most of my good experiences were with her and her family, and I am trying to post about it without her in the picture. Kind of a "What to expect from Maracaibo". If you want to know my experiences in the relationship and within the family, I'll gladly share them. Overall they couldn't have been better, except for her in the end. haha!

V-Dude

[valleydude]

... in response to Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by valleydude on Feb 21, 2005

Maracaibo:

Very very poor. Dirty and a lot of slums. One thing though, the parks are super clean. I like just about anything new, so it was cool for me. For tourism, not much to see. If you want to see something with some history, or feel like you are on a vacation you just won't get that feeling. If you want to feel like a welcomed outsider, I doubt one would get that too outside of the host family. Lots of crazy drving. Good food. I like the street vendors and small mom and pop restaurants which were really good. I wouldn't get my hopes up if one would think they were going to take their girl to a fancy restaurant. They just don't compare to here, nor was the "Nice place I went to comparable" Tony Romas was considered top of the line. (No gringos there either)

If you want to eat American fast food, not much is there. There is one corner which they call the "American Corner". There is a Pizza Hut, Burger King, McDonalds, and a BP gas station. That's it. It didn't bother me because I don't eat much fast food. I only ate there to see if it was different than here. It is.  All of the "24 hour" stores are kind weird. I can't explain it. I don't think I would count on getting anything except prescriptions after 9:00. In the first 10 days I was there, I can tell you that we drove a lot through the city. We drove all over for hours, and this was the only thing close to here in America that I saw, except in the 2 malls that I went to. I stress that because it was not like I stayed in a limited area. If you are looking for cheap things, I wasn't that impressed. Much of it that is on our level is much more expensive there, or not worth the effort to bring back. Except for gas, trinkets and food. Gas worked out to be about 25 cents a gallon. 5000 Bolivars for 10 gallons and full service! Speaking of gas, the place is Dodge Dart heaven.
If you ever wondered where the Ford Torninos went after Starsky and Huth, you can find them in Maracaibo.

Super cool Chirstmas lights! All over downtown. I never saw anything like that before and especially so many.

[valleydude]

... in response to Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by valleydude on Feb 21, 2005

People:

In the beginning I never had any desire to go to Venezuela.
I had written to girls from Venezuela and I had always ended up with some sort of weird experience. They were very cold and they just didn't have the warmth like other girls I wrote and chatted with in Colombia or Peru. I noticed that with all of the girls from Venezuela that I met online. I met one girl there and I thought she was different, so I ended up in Venezuela. She turned out to be like most other's from Venezuela that I have met online... just pretty hard, thinking everyone is lying, and a lot of pride.

I personally think "Venezuela having the most beautiful women in the world" is totally overated.
I hear it all the time. I heard it before and I hear it after I went. I think it is just overated. Though my girl was average, I still kept my eye out and I really only saw 1 "9+". I saw quite a bit of "7's" and that was cool for me. One will definitley stand out as a gringo in Maracaibo. In person I found that the girls were approachable, at least appeared to be. The girls really seemed to be into me and I could have possibly met a lot if I wasn't with her. Because of the hospitality in the area I was in, I would check out my surroundings before approaching these girls. I just didn't want any confrontation in a foreign country and I found it could happen a lot there. A lot of cold people. Outside of the Maracaibo airport I saw only 1 gringo and nobody made much of an attempt to speak English, so I wasn't looking for trouble. Since I was with her, I never got much of a conversation going with the girls on the streets, so I don't know if they fit the experience that I had while writting. I went to a baby shower with my girl and the girls there were really nice people. That's actually where I saw the "9+". Wow she was killer!

We went to a store's grand open and there were some models there, but I wasn't impressed. I can tell you that everyone my girl thought I was interested in was actually kind of ugly. I never got busted for the ones I was looking at. Darn! It would have been nice to be guilty of the charges I was accused of. haha!

I went to school with her one night and that was really cool. I went to an English class.
I got open arms from the professor. We got there early and one professor asked if we were there for the "advanced" class. I told him that I graduated. It was funny.

I did get to meet her friends and they were ok. Not looks wise, but as people. I had to jump through hoops to pick up the tab at a restaurant. Since money is a red flag, I can tell you that there weren't any red flags in this department at all. I think they are a proud group there. Almost to the extreme, with a false sense of pride. For example: Later it came to my attention that some of them knew English, but everyone was too embarrassed to speak it. She was a very proud girl and looking back, I can see that most of the people I was in contact were too.
I don't think I really like that. I had gotten to know one of her friends on the phone as I talked to the girl I was with, so I brought her friend a little trinket. For some strange reason I couldn't give it to her friend because I did not have anything for all her friends. I don't get it??? (The chick I was with was difficult though, much like the other's I had met before)

This is just my experience. There are plenty of girls smiling and giving off the vibe of being approachable, as for them all being hot? I guess everyone has their opinion, but there were some good ones, not many 10's but in the 7 range.

[valleydude]

... in response to Thunderbolt... My take on Venezuela, posted by valleydude on Feb 21, 2005

Airports:

When I landed in Caracas it was just a big mess at the airport. Unbelivable and I don't recommend going there without any Spanish. I don't know if it is the same in other places but God I was hounded with people wanting "To exchange my dollars". A girl on the plane was traveling back home and she said "Wait until you get off the plane it's Dollars, Dollars, Dollars!" She was true and I could not imagine how much that it really was. The worse part is that these guys don't take no. Anytime I tried to get any info about going into the city all everyone said was "Dangerous! Dangerous! Dangerous!" so it was discouraging. It kind of sucked when I heard it from everyone. It's just a big cluster. No one spoke English at the terminal. I say this because they were not at all. It is not because I felt they were not helpful. It was becuase they could care less. It sucked. I did have a good experience with the girl I was with in the airport but overall service sucked. I bought another ticket home just to avoid going back through there.

On a humourous note: Some guy offered me 5 more Bolivares per dollar, but we had to go out back to do the exchange. My response: "Dude! Are you crazy? I don't want your extra penny on my dollar to risk going in an alley with your a**!"

Don't exchange your money with these clowns. It is against the law and not worth the risk. That amount he offered was actually less than a penny. If you ever wondered what 1/20th of a cent looked like. Let me know and I'll scan one in for you. One interesting thing is that the people there save the coins and sell them on the black market. They are used to make chrome and they get more for the coins than the actual value.

Ok, on to Maracaibo... No problems in the airport. Very, very smooth. English speaking people all through out the check in, boarding process, customs, etc... Clean and nice! I hope when I go to Peru or any other country it is the same. No hassles, nobody hassling you, nothing, smooth as silk for me coming and going. The only one wanting my cash was a guy at the souvenir store that offered a sizeable discount if I bought with dollars. I said "ok I'll keep it in mind" and that was it. This only happened once out of the four times I went through that airport.