Venezuela, Chavez, Castro and a revolution

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and a re..., posted by kented on Feb 14, 2005

You do have the balls to defend Chavez, despite the fact that most people on this board are very much against him.  

Venezuela in fact is NOT a poor country; it is very wealthy in fact, just it's wealth is distributed very unevenly, and its economy (aside from the petroleum sector) is very poorly developed.  This results in relatively high prices and general cost of living despite the fact that the majority of people are very poor.  Chavez's policies in theory aim to create a more equitable distribution of its wealth.

What Chavez is doing was done last century in Mexico, and this resulted in a great leap in its development and level of life (which was ultimately compromised though by corruption of its government in the '70s and '80s).  In the short term at least, Chavez aroused great opposition, which resulted in instability and largely denied growth of its economy.  Pinochet in contrast did provide stability, and chilean economy grew because of that (resulting in growth of level of life across the board).

Regarding the polices of the US in Latin America...  Well, every country will defend its interests to the extent it can; it is normal and expected.

BTW, nobody claims that either Cuba or Venezuela is developing nuclear weapons.

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and ..., posted by thunderbolt on Feb 14, 2005

I pointed out that Cahvez was elected in a free election and recently reelected.  That is not actually an endorsement.  

Like Mexico, Venezuela has oil which is not distributed so that it helps the majority of the population.  Until Hugo Chavez begins developing a nuclear weapon program, I believe the US has more important concerns.  

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  ..., posted by kented on Feb 15, 2005

Well, Mexico actually nationalized its oil way back, and despite a lot of the proceeds of it being stolen, it pays for social services there.  That was one of the main achievements of its revolution.

Chavez did indeed get elected; however, his policies have bitterly divided the country.  I am not against him per se, like most guys on this board seem to be, but more than likely his policies will do more harm than good.

Even though Chavez is not developing nukes, and it is the sovereign right of Venezuela what it wants to do with its oil industry.  However, from the selfish standpoint, if he cuts oil supplies to the US we will all suffer.  $2 for a gallon is bad enough.

US foreign policy is based on advancing interests of its people and businesses, just as that of any other country in the world.  Noone is altruistic out there  And for the disbalance, to say the least, in bilateral relations Latin Americans should blame their own elites rather than the US.

These elites, pursuing their selfish interest, fought to retain the archaic and inefficient distribution of wealth and resources which stymies economic growth leaving most of their countries poor; US did not do that.  These same elites broke up existing viceroyalties into tiny Costa-Ricas that have virtually zero internation influence or defence capabilities; US did not do that.  These same elites have routinely squandered resources of their countries through corruption and borrowed without thinking; US did not do that.  All US does is takes advantage of the existing environment, and it would not be reasonable to expect it to do otherwise.

[DavidMN]

... in response to Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and a re..., posted by kented on Feb 14, 2005

I wouldn't state with such certainty that Allende was assasinated. Yes, the CIA gave the wink, wink, nudge, nudge that an overthrow would be OK by them, but a number of scholars will say he committed suicide. And surrender may have been an option, too.

Same goes for the Venezuelan referendum. Jimmy Carter and Cesar Gaviria blessed it, Colin Powell had his mind on other matters and accepted them at their word. There is evidence that elements of the computer system were rigged and more stories are coming out that Jimmy y Cesar never gave the process more than a cursory glance in the first place.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and ..., posted by DavidMN on Feb 14, 2005

David,
I think it is safe to say that anyone with a brain knows that the Venenzuelan election was rigged from the git go.  I have always been curious about why these slimy dictator types even bother trying to claim the elections are for real?  I guess you would have to live in those countries to fully understand the situations.  I can appreciate the fact that the citizens of the respective countries are afraid to speak out.  The goon squads are always counting on fear and intimidation.  Life does have it's ironies, does it not?  Oh well; Viva Castro and Viva Chavez!  Two deserving dirt bags!  By the way, all of this reminds me of an old Richard Dreyfuss movie. I can't remember the name of it, but he (his first character in the movie) impersonates a banana republic dictator.  I saw this back  in the late 80's I think.  I was very funny, and also had some interesting parts to it.  If anyone can tell me the name of it, I would appreciate it.  I would be fun to rent again.

                    OkieMan

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  ..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 14, 2005

It was about as fair as the US election.

In our banking system, 10,000,0000 transactions a day are recorded and every one of them can be tracted.  In the US we take four years to create an election system with no way to recount the ballots in many areas, too many voting machines in the suburbs and too few in the inner city and thousands of voting irregularities nationwide.

I think the US needs to improve our ability to guarantee fraud free elections before we worry about Venezuela.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Cast..., posted by kented on Feb 15, 2005

There is some truth there.  But, just think.  If that happened, we wouldn't have fun topics like this to BS about!  Just kidding.  Naturally, the US is not perfect.  But, it sure beats whatever is second best. The other half is that I hate liars, and these little puppet dictators are so full of themselves, they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the butt!  Thanks for your comments.

                              OkieMan

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  ..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 14, 2005

Moon over Parador

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Cast..., posted by jim c on Feb 14, 2005

thanks, I would like to see that movie again.  I think that if we could get Dreyfuss to "take over" some of these countries we have been talking about; life could be more fun.  If not dicator, then court jester! ha

                                OkieMan